Reps/Sets??

JimmyR

What do you achieve from doing 5 x 5 at the same weight and achieving a personal best for 5 sets of 5 reps as opposed to doing 5 x 5 with asscending weight and a personal best being hit for five reps on the last set which is higher that the weight you used doing the 5 x 5 all at the same weight.

Example:

Squat: 5 x 5 at 100Kg - First time lifting 100kg for 5 sets of 5 reps

Squat: set 1 65kg
Set 2 75kg
Set 3 85kg
Set 4 95kg
Set 5 105kg - new personal best

lastlaugh

JimmyR wrote: »

What do you achieve from doing 5 x 5 at the same weight and achieving a personal best for 5 sets of 5 reps

I don't think you would be able to do all these sets and reps with proper form, also I don't think it would be wise to just jump in and try to lift your PB so many times.

JimmyR wrote: »

Squat: set 1 65kg
Set 2 75kg
Set 3 85kg
Set 4 95kg
Set 5 105kg - new personal best

I'm not doing Stronglift 5x5 but that what I'm guessing that programme is.
Those sets would allow you to gradually build up to reach your PB rather than just lift heavy straight off.

Just the thought of lifting my PB Squat straight away without warm up sets is causing me pain! :pac:

Remmy

lastlaugh wrote: »

I don't think you would be able to do all these sets and reps with proper form, also I don't think it would be wise to just jump in and try to lift your PB so many times.



I'm not doing Stronglift 5x5 but that what I'm guessing that programme is.
Those sets would allow you to gradually build up to reach your PB rather than just lift heavy straight off.

Just the thought of lifting my PB Squat straight away without warm up sets is causing me pain! :pac:

With both straight sets and ramping up sets you are going to be warming up.Its not like you are set to squat 100kg 5x5 today,load the bar with 100 and squat it cold.If I was doing 100kg 5x5 I would do 60kgx5 then 80kgx5 then I'd be ready to get into my work sets.Atleast thats the way I understand it to be.

Scuba Ste

lastlaugh wrote: »

I don't think you would be able to do all these sets and reps with proper form, also I don't think it would be wise to just jump in and try to lift your PB so many times.



I'm not doing Stronglift 5x5 but that what I'm guessing that programme is.
Those sets would allow you to gradually build up to reach your PB rather than just lift heavy straight off.

Just the thought of lifting my PB Squat straight away without warm up sets is causing me pain! :pac:

I don't think the OP means that. He wouldn't be doing 5x5 with his PB (1RM) for 5x5, that's just not possible, its a setxrep PB, as in, his PB could be 130kg but his 5x5 PB is 100. And of course warm ups and progression are probably implied too.

OP I don't know what the benefits are to ramped or sets across. There is more total volume in the sets across but I don't know whether that makes a massive difference. 5x5 is hard, long and boring, but fairly effective, doing either is probably down to preference for volume or not.

lastlaugh

Scuba Ste wrote: »

I don't think the OP means that. He wouldn't be doing 5x5 with his PB (1RM) for 5x5, that's just not possible, its a setxrep PB, as in, his PB could be 130kg but his 5x5 PB is 100. And of course warm ups and progression are probably implied too.

Ahh OK, thanks for that clarification, I thought the PB and 1RM was the same. I was starting to think it was some kind of trick paradoxical question? :pac:

I'd better go off and read up some more!

JimmyR

Just bringing this up again in case anyone missed my question the first time...and another one to go with it that is similar!

What the difference between 3 x 10 at the same weight,for a PB for 3 sets with the same weight, and 3 x 10 with the last set being the heaviest and a PB.

Sorry for all the questions but there seems to be lots of smart people here that know more than me

d'Oracle

Multiply the weight by the number of reps in each set.
Then add up the results for each set.

You will then have a total for weight lifted in each of the sessions.

Subtract the smaller amount from the greater amount.
That is the difference.

JimmyR

d'Oracle wrote: »

Multiply the weight by the number of reps in each set.
Then add up the results for each set.

You will then have a total for weight lifted in each of the sessions.

Subtract the smaller amount from the greater amount.
That is the difference.

Whats the training effect though? what are you gaining from one that your not gaining from the other?

if you lift a total of 500kg at 5 x 5 but your heaviest set is obviouly 100kg are you going to be stronger than a person you lifted 105kg on their last set? Where is the strength carry over and why would you use one method over another considering that there both forms of linear progression.

d'Oracle

I don't know.

I don't know what you mean by Strength Carryover.
Or what you mean by training effect either.

Increasing the load is the most important thing, I have heard of strong people doing both rep schemes.

kevpants

They're totally different things. 5x5 as it's commonly known would be using the same weight for all 5 sets and increasing that weight over time. Linear progression.

The other option you're reffering to i really just building up to a top set of 3 or 5 or whatever.

You ask which is better and what the training effect is, well that's dependant on the lifter and the weight that lifter is capable of moving. 5x5 for a lifter that is much stronger will involve heavier weights (obviously) and is a much more intense prospect than for a beginner.

The way I look at trianing is different to some in that I have no interest in volume and think it's all a bit of a nonsense. When I say volume I mean adding up weight x reps x sets and saying the bigger the number the better, I'd lean more on the side of the level of strain you are under for each set being the best indicator of the training effect.

Rather than upping or dropping weight from the bar I generally up or drop the strain I'm under based on how many set or reps I will go for at a particular weight. As an exampl I might like to train squats tonight and I want to do 3 sets where I'm at 9/10 i terms of strain. So I'm not quite maxed out but I'm not a hell of a lot far off it I might warm up to work sets of.

220kg x 2 (9/10)
210kg x 2 (8.5/10)
210kg x 2 (9.5/10)

Even though the weights dropped I was in or around a strain level of 9/10 based on how I felt on the last rep.

On a lighter squat session I might want to ramp up to a single set at 9/10 but have the previous sets easier so I might use the same weight and do

180kg x 5 (7/10)
180kg x 5 (7.5/10)
180kg x 5 (8/10)
180kg x 5 (8.5/10)
180kg x 5 (9/10)

You don't always have to train at 9/10 as far being under pressure goes, you have to know when to back off, what I'm trying to comminicate is an understanding of what your sets actually mean. It's not a maths exercise after all.

This answer has quickly spiralled out of control and maybe I've given way too much info to make sense but it might give you something to think about.

blah88

Assuming two people eat the same caloric surplus. Who's going to grow more. Someone who worked up to one heavy set at 220, or the person who does 5x5 at 200? Lets say on the squat.

Hanley

blah88 wrote: »

Assuming two people eat the same caloric surplus. Who's going to grow more. Someone who worked up to one heavy set at 220, or the person who does 5x5 at 200? Lets say on the squat.

42.

There is absolutely no way to quantify it.

Mellor

the person who doesn't bother thinking about tiny details like this and instead uses that time to get in an extra set