Suggesstions for the fairest way to cut road deaths.

flazio

I see loads of you giving out that all these new speed cameras are wrong and just money making exercises. So I ask you dear motorists to tell me how to do this right? Bearing in mind you must uphold each individual driver's right to be 'innocent until proven guilty' regardless of social background.

Can it be done?

bmw535d

improve the roads. introduce an R plate system like the north.introduce a driving test when your 70 80 and 85 etc.when you loose your licence you should have to do driving test again after the ban period is up. drink drivers should loose licence for 5 years minimum. improve the driving test as it's too easy to pass.have variable speed limits.allocate more funding for council salt spreaders. every 10 years you should have to do a free mandatory driver education class.

Mr Benevolent

Road deaths aren't particularly high in Ireland. Better education and training, mandatory skidpad practice etc should decrease road deaths in time.

Tigger

fastest way would be to stop counting single vehicle deaths on straight roads with big walls as road deaths and call them suicides when they are (most not all )

rivervarrig

Well, you could start by the Government giving more resources to Gardai to go out and patrol the roads between 6pm and 8am. Especially country roads. Younger male drivers might slow down if they pass a garda car, even if they just pass it coming in the opposite direction, doesnt have to be a checkpoint or speed check. more gardai on the roads late at night is whats needed, and i know that the resources arent there to do that at the moment ie. not enough Gardaí (plenty of retirements, no recruits), not enough patrol vehicles (majority of Garda cars are somewhere between 200k and 300k miles on the clock, at 300k they are to be scrapped with no replacements) and more emphasis on rural roads and secondary roads. they are the unsafest and in worst condition, yet thay are always the road where the young male will be speeding home on a late saturday night trying to impress his friends in the back......all im saying - if he passed a garda he might slow down.

Holybejaysus

Seriously, the most promising development to cut road deaths is to not have people driving the cars. Ask any scientist and they will tell you the same thing-The human mind is not built for multi tasking. Computers are our friend here. We have the technology people-

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6991ZE20101010

jimmycrackcorm

bmw535d wrote: »

improve the roads. introduce an R plate system like the north.introduce a driving test when your 70 80 and 85 etc.when you loose your licence you should have to do driving test again after the ban period is up. drink drivers should loose licence for 5 years minimum. improve the driving test as it's too easy to pass.have variable speed limits.allocate more funding for council salt spreaders. every 10 years you should have to do a free mandatory driver education class.

We'd never have enough money to improve all the roads.
An R system doesn't stop young guys being macho drivers.
Few if any deaths are caused by 70+ drivers.
If a years driving ban doesn't stop drink driving then neither will a 5 year ban
I don't think the driving test itself is an issue - is there anything specifically missing from it that is responsible for road deaths?
Salt spreaders are good but I get the impression that bad winter weather reduces fatalities but increases minor accidents, mainly due to speed.

Ultimately it is an attitude change brought on by increased monitoring of speed checks and random breath testing for example.

Owen

I still think this is the best way to do it, and of course, I've done bugger all about it :
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055359368&highlight=cats+eyes

Still not sure why the huge media palava about road deaths though, more people die from Suicide - according to the radio today anyway - and yet we spend millions on (currently) essentially unpreventable deaths when we could really help those on the edge of depression instead who die silently and are never noticed.

mackerski

Driver Education. Really. Get it into the schools - it's the same stuff you need to know as a pedestrian or cyclist anyway. Basically it shouldn't be possible to get a driving licence without knowing things like:

• You have to keep left even if you have attained the speed limit
• It is indeed still wrong-side overtaking if the other guy just happens to be going slower
• To merge onto a motorway you build your speed up to that of the mainline and time your merge to an available gap
• Tailgating is a really bad idea
• You signal your turns and lane changes even if you don't think anybody is there to see it

The current road safety mantra is what it has been for years - if people are still dying on the roads we mustn't be driving slowly enough. I suppose it's a less vote-losing message than "guys, you can't drive for sh/t!", even though that's the basic truth of the matter.

johnmcdnl

don't let young lads who have a provisional or a license for less that 2 years say near the roads after say 10pm..

I'm a young lad but I know myself that this is the only way to stop the carnage...

Stats speak for themselves - how many fatal accidents involve lads my age in the middle of the night..

Enforce this law like no other law on the road and don't let provisional drivers near a car unless they actually have an second driver in the car with them - I don't think I've actually ever heard of a person being done for driving without a fully licensed driver with them..

We're not going to be able to stop people from speeding and rallying round the roads like mad yokes.. the only hope is to try to stop them doing it when there young and inexperienced and hopefully by the time they're actually old enough to be able to drive on their own in the middle of the night they'll have copped on to themselves...

Only if these rules were enforced like nothing else on the road - zero tolerance and really high garda presence

Driver training courses every 10 years are a waste of time - people aren't going to change driving habits after 10 years of doing a bad habit - only hope is to stop them when their learning.. once you pick up bad habits it's gonna be so much harder to stop them..

as for old drivers - they already have to get doctors certs and secondly - when's the last time you've ever seen an old person driving at speed and dangerously - we all know that they can be dangerous but they tend to drive at 5mph so when they do hit a wall the car is hardly dented...

it's young lads driving like mad yokes that have to be stopped - and that's the only thing that will cut road deaths drastically..
the numbers add up for themselves

cuppa

more gravel pits. Works in f1

Senna

Roadside hedges should have to be cut and maintained by the land owners. Drive on a hedge lined road day or night and then a road with no hedges, the difference is huge. I think a lot of rural accidents would be avoided.

Padraig Mor

1. Proper driving training, a la Germany. (and proper training for instructors too).
2. Retest every 10 years.
3. A genuine clampdown on drink driving (the overwhelming majority of drunk drivers won't be caught and know they won't).
4. Zero tolerance implementation of ALL road rules, not just speeding.
5. Disband the RSA and replace with a body focused on actual road safety, rather than massaging statistics to promote a single 'slow down' message.

greenermetals

i reckon its only a matter of time til the speed of a car is limited by the sat nav. its a short jump from what we have now, would probably take very little programming. itll make driving very boring though

Zubeneschamali

flazio wrote: »

how to do this right?

Firstly, the most important reason for our historically low deaths on the roads recently has to be the Motorways, not points or speed traps. So abolish motorway tolls: get as many people using the safest roads as possible, get them off more dangerous toll-dodging routes.

Continue improving roads: bypass problem towns, eliminate black spots, improve junctions, erect clear and sensible signage.

Drink driving has been made less acceptable socially, but the catch-and-convict rate is still rubbish. A targetted campaign aimed at pubs and other drinking venues with full carparks at night. Don't muck about changing the acceptable blood alcohol levels until the current limit is properly enforced.

If there is to be blanket speed limit enforcement, review speed limits everywhere. We all know many limits are stupid. Open motorway limits should be raised to 140, boreen limits lowered. Enforcing silly limits just písses people off.

KamiKazi

• Lose the speed cameras.
• Design a more comprehensive and skill based driving test.
• Overhaul county council road repair techniques.
• Mandatory cats eyes on every road.
• Higher Traffic Corps presence, NOT speed checking but patrolling for bad driving.

Seth Brundle

This guy if installed would ensure that everyone drives carefully...
http://www.carbibles.com/images/steering_spike.jpg

dr.fuzzenstein

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Firstly, the most important reason for our historically low deaths on the roads recently has to be the Motorways, not points or speed traps. So abolish motorway tolls: get as many people using the safest roads as possible, get them off more dangerous toll-dodging routes.

Continue improving roads: bypass problem towns, eliminate black spots, improve junctions, erect clear and sensible signage.

Drink driving has been made less acceptable socially, but the catch-and-convict rate is still rubbish. A targetted campaign aimed at pubs and other drinking venues with full carparks at night. Don't muck about changing the acceptable blood alcohol levels until the current limit is properly enforced.

If there is to be blanket speed limit enforcement, review speed limits everywhere. We all know many limits are stupid. Open motorway limits should be raised to 140, boreen limits lowered. Enforcing silly limits just písses people off.

You see, your ideas have several problems.
They're simple, practical, not preachy, dont shout at young drivers and no politician can look macho whilst beating his chest, shouting "Death To Boyracers!"
Sadly the safety message in this country is "Speed Kills!", therefore meaning that if you drove at 200 km/h on an open road you would be killed instantly and with 100% certainty, whilst no other factors enter into the equation, except being young and male.
Of course being young and male does pose risks, we get the message, so the best strategy for the RSA would be to move on to other causes for accidents.

Cookie_Monster

I've mulled over posting this because people will just take it wrong...

why do road deaths need to be lowered? People will always die on the roads regardless, the level we have at the moment is very low, there are other things that kill far, far more people that don't get the same hysteria generated over them, why not invest money into some of those and save 100's/1000's instead of pumping millions and millions into trying to prevent an extra 20-50 road deaths?

Rodin

SPECS cameras, particularly in places like Inishowen
More regular eysight testing with full visual fields testing. Currently someone in their midfifties can get a 10 year licence. Far too long.
Zero blood alcohol level.
More prosecution for dangerous driving. Two car collision? Someone was on wrong side of the road.
Driving test to include night, motorway, wet weather driving.
Fix the ****ing roads. Cork City in particular is a disgrace.
County councils to get off their lazy backsides and gritwhen necessary. A Garda or AA Roadwatch advisory is not an excuse not to grit a road.
Road speed limits to be reviewed. 100 km/h on the Killarney to Sneem road, same as the three-laned Naas Rd?

AugustusMinimus

1. Introduction of Specs speed camera system. This system would be used on the most dangerous sections of road in Ireland where it has been clearly shown that number accidents and fatalities have happened. Point speed cameras are useless. Average speed cameras are a good idea where needed.

2. Reassessment of all speed limits in Ireland. Take the control back from County Councils for Regional and Local roads in terms of speed limit setting. All roads should be reviewed with a lot of Regional roads such as the R639 put back up to 100kph. On the flip side, certain National Seconadry routes which don't deserve a 100kph should be put down to 80kph or whatever is actually appropriate.

3. Motorway speed limit. The limit should be increased to 130kph and gradually increased further until driving improves to such a degree that we can follow the autobahn system of having parts of our motorway network with no speed limit. Old sections which are deemed not safe enough can keep the original 120kph or 100kph limits.

4. Driver education to begin in secondary school. Rules of the Road, the basics of how to drive and even car maintenance should be though in school. Drivers need to know from an early beginning to know the rules of the road and to know if their car needs new tyres. Bang into their heads about correct lane usage on motorways too

5. A whole new testing/learning to drive system. This has been said a hundred times on here. I'd personally opt for two tests. One for basic driving. Once you have been driving for 6 months on your basic licence, you would take test two which would focus on motorway driving. Afer passing test 1, you would need an accompanying driver to be with you in the car to learn to drive on motorways.

6. Advanced driving lessons to be taken. Lessons on how to rescue control of a car if the backend flicks out. Driving in simulated low grip conditions such as heavy rain and ice.

7. Doubling of fines for each 2 penalty points received. Once you hit 6, you have to resit your driving test within 3 months of picking up your 6 point or you're off the road.

8. The end of patronising RSA campaigns towards young men. Such patronising campaigns don't work. In fact, it will only spur them on to speed even further. Young adults before they leave school should be introduced to the horrors of traffic accidents. The victims and indeed, the parents of lost ones could give youngsters a good talking to about road safety and how much one can lose through wrecklessness on the road. Would give out a much firmer and poignant message than "He drives, she dies"

9. Mandatory winter tyres from November to March each year. In the end, the real only additional cost would be the cost of 4 rims to run the winter tyres on and the additional upfront payment for the winter tyres. Lives could be saved and it could help bring down insurance premiums in the long term.

10. A more active presence from the Gardai in looking out for traffic offences outside of drink driving and speeding. Dangerous overtaking, awful lane discipline etc etc is hardly ever caught.

11. Red light cameras. I personally have no problem with these. I hate people who drive through red lights. As long as the sensors allow a sensible amount of time for people on ambers to drive through the junction I'm ok with this.

12. Illegals on motorways. Pedestrians, cyclists and tractors. I see them all the time on motorways. I see the same cyclists every Saturday morning on the M8 near Watergrasshill. I doubt a Garda has ever done anything about them. This wouldn't be tollerated in any other country.

13. Learner drivers without accompanying drivers. I though this was going to be clamped down on hard only a year or so ago. This seems to have completely gone out of the window. It's as simple as this. If you haven't passed the test, you haven't been validated as being a safe and competant driver and you shouldn't be on the road by yourself.

AugustusMinimus

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I've mulled over posting this because people will just take it wrong...

why do road deaths need to be lowered? People will always die on the roads regardless, the level we have at the moment is very low, there are other things that kill far, far more people that don't get the same hysteria generated over them, why not invest money into some of those and save 100's/1000's instead of pumping millions and millions into trying to prevent an extra 20-50 road deaths?

Using 65 million to tackle obesity would prob save more lives.

Leonard Hofstadter

We need to move away from telling people to 'slow down' and instead let people use their common sense.

Drive at an appropriate speed for the conditions.

Stop criminalising "speeding" and "speeders".

Speeding by definition means posting an arbitrary speed limit.

By the logic of the anti-speeding lobby, many of our roads which had 100 kmh speed limits but then got upgraded to 120 because they were re-classified as Motorways, were unsafe between 101 and 120 km/h because you were "speeding" on these roads but suddenly when the limit got increased 101-120 km/h is not "speeding" or travelling at a speed that "is the single biggest killer on Irish roads".

So we really need to look at appropriate speed limits as well.

Many of them in this country are daft, they are far too low.

The biggest thing we can do, but it is very expensive to do, is build more motorways. It is no accident that fatalities have fallen over the past few years as more and more motorways have been built.

The next most important thing is driver training. Stop hogging the overtaking lane(it is NOT the "fast lane") for no good reason. Make everyone re-take their test every five years, because we all know(and I know there are things I don't do now that I would have done in the test) that we learn to drive for the driving test and then we drive completely differently after passing it. If everyone knew they were going to be re-assessed then they wouldn't get bad habits.

kdevitt

Theres extensive driver education here in Sydney, and a graduated driving licence system. There is a highly visible police presence, double penalty points on bank holiday weekends, plenty of speed cameras, and very regular drink driving checks.

The reality as far as I have seen personally is that despite all the above, which have all been heralded as potential cures for the problem back home , the standard of driving here is every bit as bad as I've seen in Ireland, if not worse. Road deaths are regular, and young males (and females) drive like absolute nutcases, even at the risk of being put back to having to start qualifying for their licence from the beginning again.

Unfortunately there is a category of driver who will always take unnecessary risks and act up, no matter what rules and training you put in place.

gofaster_s13

Put a six year old on a push bike and he'll be out seeing how fast he can go(my bike is faster than your bike) give him two toy cars and he'll race them, its human nature, its not curable, young lads will always speed, if it wasnt for this desire to push the boundaries we would still be walking.

sean1141

there is no point in changing speed limits on back roads when they are not going to be enforced... unless they put loads of cameras on these roads they are far to dangerous for the guards to set up on..

at the end of the day peoples attitudes need to change... there are to many people who just dont give a f about other road users... be it a young fella who is sick of looking at stupid adds on tv telling him to slow down!! then you have the older people who love aul gaybo.. he says speed kills so i better drive at about 35mph everywhere!! but the worst of the lot is people who read a story in the paper or see it on the news about someone being killed in a crash then get into there car and tailgate people, fail to use their lights and indicators correctly, talk on there phone when driving and be ignorant to all other road users!! ant there are a lot of these out there...
i can tell you i have seen as many 7seaters with a few kids in the back with the woman driving and chatting on a phone as i have boy racers doing stupid speed on the road.. everyone is guilty of doing something stupid on the road at some point in their life. if you were lucky to get away with it and too learn from it lucky you. some people were not!

there is no quick answer to road deaths but imo better driver education and constant training is the way forward

dr.fuzzenstein

Limit all vehicles to 30 km/h.
Problem solved.

gofaster_s13

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Limit all vehicles to 30 km/h.
Problem solved.

Problem not solved, you'll still get somebody trying to overtake someone else with traffic coming the opposite way or people coasting down hills at well over 30k in neutral

Atomic Pineapple

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Limit all vehicles to 30 km/h.
Problem solved.

In Slane the limit is 30km/h, going down the hill if you follow the speed limit you have lads on bicycles passing you out!

RustyNut

How About making helmets compulsory that would save a few lives. I remember a time of no skid lids on motor bikes, no seat belts in cars and they were scoffed at when first suggested but now....

stevenmu

It's not unusual for people in charge of complicated and dangerous equipment to have to renew their qualifications. Airline pilots have to re-qualify periodically, as do truck drivers and bus drivers. I think operators of certain construction equipment do too.

The same should be in place for drivers, a test every 5 years or so. And it could include advanced topics like driving in the left lane of a motorway, using indicators before turning, correct lanes on roundabouts, how to change lane etc etc. It would also weed out all those people who were handed a license without ever sitting a test.