Which college for mech??

DaDon

I'm fairly sure I'm going to be putting mechanical engineering on my cao form next year but what college is best?
I've been told to go to Trinity because of it's reputation but my career guidance teacher never mentions Trinity and always starts talking about UCD. What should I do? An engineer told me that engineers from Trinity are head hunted once graduated and UCD grads have trouble finding work, is this true??
Thanks!!

DaDon

DaDon wrote: »

An engineer told me that engineers from Trinity are head hunted once graduated and UCD grads have trouble finding work, is this true??
Thanks!!

Absolute and utter crap, except for the part about struggling to find work, but that applies to all graduates these days unfortunately.

yizorselves

Bolton St aint a bad one, should be called sausage street though

Turbulent Bill

RoverJames wrote: »

Absolute and utter crap, except for the part about struggling to find work, but that applies to all graduates these days unfortunately.

+1. For any recruiter worth their salt, the degree is just a box-ticking exercise to show you've some technical knowledge - where it comes from is mainly irrelevant. I went to TCD, and was occasionally envious of the imagined engineering wonderland in UCD, until a friend did a postgrad there and said life was exactly the same...

Where they do differ is in research areas, so project work for final year etc. will differ depending on the departments' specialities. Not something to worry about when you're starting as you probably won't have a clue about the various areas anyway.

enda1

Choose the college which suits you best. Seeing as the actual degree is similar, you should consider transport, accommodation, societies, exam system, etc.

If you are seriously looking at working abroad, you will find that TCD is better known internationally as a university. Its much of a muchness though.

Personally I'd put TCD first, followed by UCD, with the others not really in consideration, but that's just me.

dan_d

I went to UCD, and prior to entering college (and after graduating, weirdly enough), I was always told it was the other way around.

But it's up to you.....look at what each course offers and see which suits you best. To be honest, I'd say there's not much in the difference.

actuallylike

Can only speak for myself now, I did 3 years in DCU, got some smart people out there but left and transferred to Bolton Street. I know it was considered a step down, even my Bolton St lecturers were asking what I was doing there but the reason was in DCU, although their facilities were top notch and the lecturers were all pretty well respected I felt that the education I was getting was pretty sub par (just my experience now, that's all I can go on).
Reason being the lecturers all had their own stuff to work on, advancing their own research which was fair enough but I felt some lecturers lacked interest in the education part of it and usually got the run around about being too busy if I popped up to their office after class for help.

In Bolton St, I found the classes more personal, lecturers knowing your name and talking to you more. Basically it felt like school again which is what I needed (I need discipline ) and they never seemed to be busy when I knocked up to them and would go out of there way to help.

Admittedly, the resources can be limited but only when you compare them to the big Universities, like comparing a Mercedes to a pair of rollerskates (university to IT). I've been down in TCD before, using their library (absolutely amazing) and their labs (amazing equipment) but that's all, most of the stuff you'll never get to use. I also heard that the TCD course is more theory based but not sure what truth lies in that. Again, very hard to compare places if you've only been in one so just take my limited knowledge at face value.

+1 on the sausage fest by the way, not a looker in the bunch...bar me, I'm devilishly handsome;)

ps I don't work for DIT, rereading it there makes me look like a rep or something! As said above, there probably is no real difference in where you go. A Mechanical Engineering degree from anywhere will do you well.

enda1

^
The above sounds quite like the stories I've heard.

Personally I feel that university should provide a highly theoretical education and that the "practical" side of things should not be a primary concern of undergraduate education. If the advanced theory is not leaned and understood at undergraduate level, you will struggle in the workplace if you find yourself in a job demanding any reasonable level of engineering ability - and equally in latter education if its assumes a certain theoretical competence.

In the workplace you will have the opportunity to get a more hands on experience (if pertinent to your position), whereas the knowledge is expected of you.

mawk

Ul and cit both have very respected programs too, if leaving dublin is an option

flash1080

If I had to do it in Dublin, I'd go to UCD or DIT.

enda1 wrote: »

^
The above sounds quite like the stories I've heard.

Personally I feel that university should provide a highly theoretical education and that the "practical" side of things should not be a primary concern of undergraduate education. If the advanced theory is not leaned and understood at undergraduate level, you will struggle in the workplace if you find yourself in a job demanding any reasonable level of engineering ability - and equally in latter education if its assumes a certain theoretical competence.

In the workplace you will have the opportunity to get a more hands on experience (if pertinent to your position), whereas the knowledge is expected of you.

I think it'd be better if Engineering degrees were two years instead of four. Learn the basics and then start learning on the job. That'll obviously never happen, but a lot more is learned in the workplace than in college.

enda1

flash1080 wrote: »

If I had to do it in Dublin, I'd go to UCD or DIT.



I think it'd be better if Engineering degrees were two years instead of four. Learn the basics and then start learning on the job. That'll obviously never happen, but a lot more is learned in the workplace than in college.

I completely disagree.
The knowledges and skills are very different but complimentary.
Those gathered during university are built on and expanded during working life.

You will (almost) never learn how to derive a compliance matrix for an anisotropic material in the workplace. But you may be required to be able to do it/understand it and the implications of the numbers.

If anything the degree is too short and should include a more in-depth research topic rather than the final year project during course time and exam preparation time.

flash1080

enda1 wrote: »

I completely disagree.
The knowledges and skills are very different but complimentary.
Those gathered during university are built on and expanded during working life.

You will (almost) never learn how to derive a compliance matrix for an anisotropic material in the workplace. But you may be required to be able to do it/understand it and the implications of the numbers.

If anything the degree is too short and should include a more in-depth research topic rather than the final year project during course time and exam preparation time.

You may be required to understand a compliance matrix for an anisotropic material, but in loads of Engineering jobs you won't. A more in-depth research topic, unless it comes from industry, probably won't be beneficial. I just think it's better to get a foundation and learn relevant things on the job and from short courses. Kind of like apprenticeships.

enda1

flash1080 wrote: »

You may be required to understand a compliance matrix for an anisotropic material, but in loads of Engineering jobs you won't. A more in-depth research topic, unless it comes from industry, probably won't be beneficial. I just think it's better to get a foundation and learn relevant things on the job and from short courses. Kind of like apprenticeships.

I gave an example of something I need(ed) to know on joining my current company. The point is that it may not have been this topic but perhaps the thermodynamics of a diesel engine, the aerodynamics of a NACA aerofoil etc. etc. These topics will not be learned in a two year cert course.

You need to have some basic education in order to be employable. We are supposed to be engineers, the ones with problem solving skills founded in understanding of the root cause of the problem, able to dissect the issue to the fundamentals and build a solution based on this along with experience and research into the field.
These skills need to be begun in the academic sphere and honed in the workplace. The workplace needs something to mould however, not an empty shell.

flash1080

enda1 wrote: »

I gave an example of something I need(ed) to know on joining my current company. The point is that it may not have been this topic but perhaps the thermodynamics of a diesel engine, the aerodynamics of a NACA aerofoil etc. etc. These topics will not be learned in a two year cert course.

You need to have some basic education in order to be employable. We are supposed to be engineers, the ones with problem solving skills founded in understanding of the root cause of the problem, able to dissect the issue to the fundamentals and build a solution based on this along with experience and research into the field.
These skills need to be begun in the academic sphere and honed in the workplace. The workplace needs something to mould however, not an empty shell.

That's why I said spend two years learning the basics and do short courses to learn what's relevant for your workplace.

enda1

flash1080 wrote: »

That's why I said spend two years learning the basics and do short courses to learn what's relevant for your workplace.

You will not learn the basics in 2 years. In two years you will not be far beyond the science and mathamatical concepts.

How can an employer employ you for a job if you can not in any way prove you are capable. Sure you won't even have completed a short project??

Also you expect the employer then to fund your education?

I'm not saying that some courses are to be discourage, hell I've attended some myself in my 3 years of employment. But these have been quite advanced courses/software usage courses such as:

-The basic theory of LS-DYNA in crash application
-The modelling of composite materials for use in FE code
-Hypermesh basics
-CATIA V5 solid and surface modelling and assembly design

Neither of the first two courses could I have attended without understanding some of the more advanced topics studied in 3rd and 4th year mech.

CatFromHue

in my opinion the 4 year degree covers the basics.

a graduate straight from college does need to be trained somewhat by their employer to come up to speed with the working world.

a new employee in any company usually isnt fully productive for a number of months after starting.

the fea example is quite good. in college you learn the very basics of this and how it works so as to know its limitations. there is alot of learning on the job though to become fully useful with it and years to master it.

Turbulent Bill

Engineering education already has the cert/diploma route for those who don't want to do 4 years study, and by necessity their scope is much narrower than an honours degree (so what is covered can be studied deeply enough). This is fine if you know exactly what you want to do, but the average 17 year old doesn't have a clue or a crystal ball to know how the industry will develop in future.

Unless you really have a problem with the extra 2 years, I'd recommend pretty much everyone does a degree. It brings a huge breadth of knowledge, and 2 years is nothing over the course of a career.

flash1080

enda1 wrote: »

You will not learn the basics in 2 years. In two years you will not be far beyond the science and mathamatical concepts.

How can an employer employ you for a job if you can not in any way prove you are capable. Sure you won't even have completed a short project??

Also you expect the employer then to fund your education?

I'm not saying that some courses are to be discourage, hell I've attended some myself in my 3 years of employment. But these have been quite advanced courses/software usage courses such as:

-The basic theory of LS-DYNA in crash application
-The modelling of composite materials for use in FE code
-Hypermesh basics
-CATIA V5 solid and surface modelling and assembly design

Neither of the first two courses could I have attended without understanding some of the more advanced topics studied in 3rd and 4th year mech.

I learned the basics in two years. I could work productively as an Engineer after two years of a four year degree. If I didn't know something I'd learn it, and quickly. Shame I had to spend another two years in college when I could've been doing something useful and making money.

As for proving if you're capable, there's little difference in proof whether you've completed 2 or 4 years of college.

Lots of employers invest in training/educating their employees.

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

Engineering education already has the cert/diploma route for those who don't want to do 4 years study, and by necessity their scope is much narrower than an honours degree (so what is covered can be studied deeply enough). This is fine if you know exactly what you want to do, but the average 17 year old doesn't have a clue or a crystal ball to know how the industry will develop in future.

Unless you really have a problem with the extra 2 years, I'd recommend pretty much everyone does a degree. It brings a huge breadth of knowledge, and 2 years is nothing over the course of a career.

I'm not saying do the current 2 year cert or 3 year diploma instead of a degree. Also, they're as broad in nature as 4 year degrees, or at least the one's I've come across are. I think 2 years of an honours degree is enough to go out into the workplace. A lot of people will disagree with that...

Turbulent Bill

flash1080 wrote: »

I learned the basics in two years. I could work productively as an Engineer after two years of a four year degree. If I didn't know something I'd learn it, and quickly. Shame I had to spend another two years in college when I could've been doing something useful and making money.

As for proving if you're capable, there's little difference in proof whether you've completed 2 or 4 years of college.

Lots of employers invest in training/educating their employees.



I'm not saying do the current 2 year cert or 3 year diploma instead of a degree. Also, they're as broad in nature as 4 year degrees, or at least the one's I've come across are. I think 2 years of an honours degree is enough to go out into the workplace. A lot of people will disagree with that...

...Including me!:). I've never seen a cert/diploma programme with as broad a scope as a degree - they're usually targetted towards very specific engineering fields rather than complete disciplines. It's vital to be exposed to a really broad range of knowledge, you never know where you might use it.

I'd agree though that degree students should get into the workplace earlier, but only through 3rd-year internships. It's a bit daft that you can study for 4 years but potentially have no idea how the actual job works.

apoeiguq3094y

There's a lot of narrow minded views floating around here that are based on personal experiences. Just because it worked for you doesn't mean its good advice to give to someone starting out.

If you want an recognised qualification you should do a degree that is accredited by Engineers Ireland. http://www.engineersireland.ie/services/programme-accreditaton/accredited-programmes/

The most well known internationally are from the NUI (NUI galway & UCD), TCD, and UL. Look at where graduates typically end up working. Most colleges will have examples of where past graduates have gone. Don't get caught up with local biases about TCD. Its good, but not necessarily better than UCD, UL or NUIG. I went to NUIG, thought it was a very good course. There tends to be a strong emphasis placed on Finite Element analysis at NUIG, which can be good for some jobs.

Your other options are in IT's - the degrees from IT's tend to be a bit more hands-on and applied, whereas the universities tend to be a bit more theoretical (although you do plenty hands on at uni and plenty theory at an IT). If you're getting good grades at honours math's I'd recommend going to a university, if you are in ordinary level i'd say go to an IT as there will be a lot of maths in the theory parts at university.

To the poster saying you never derive a compliance matrix at work, depends on who you work for. Friend of mine working as a Mech Eng for a galway medical device company does this kind of thing every day. There is a lot of demand for highly qualified, highly specialised engineers out there.

+1 for Turbulent Bill's comments

flash1080

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

There's a lot of narrow minded views floating around here that are based on personal experiences. Just because it worked for you doesn't mean its good advice to give to someone starting out.

If you want an recognised qualification you should do a degree that is accredited by Engineers Ireland. http://www.engineersireland.ie/services/programme-accreditaton/accredited-programmes/

The most well known internationally are from the NUI (NUI galway & UCD), TCD, and UL. Look at where graduates typically end up working. Most colleges will have examples of where past graduates have gone. Don't get caught up with local biases about TCD. Its good, but not necessarily better than UCD, UL or NUIG. I went to NUIG, thought it was a very good course. There tends to be a strong emphasis placed on Finite Element analysis at NUIG, which can be good for some jobs.

Your other options are in IT's - the degrees from IT's tend to be a bit more hands-on and applied, whereas the universities tend to be a bit more theoretical (although you do plenty hands on at uni and plenty theory at an IT). If you're getting good grades at honours math's I'd recommend going to a university, if you are in ordinary level i'd say go to an IT as there will be a lot of maths in the theory parts at university.

To the poster saying you never derive a compliance matrix at work, depends on who you work for. Friend of mine working as a Mech Eng for a galway medical device company does this kind of thing every day. There is a lot of demand for highly qualified, highly specialised engineers out there.

+1 for Turbulent Bill's comments

What's the bad advice? I didn't say do a 2 year cert or a 3 year diploma instead of a 4 year degree. I didn't say only do 2 years of a 4 year degree.

You need honours maths to do a level 8 degree regardless of whether it's in a university or IT. Level 8 degree in both universities and ITs are more theoretical than practical in nature. There will be a lot of maths in the theory parts in a level 8 Engineering degree whether it's in a university or IT. Level 7 degrees on the other hand require ordinary level maths and can lead to progression to level 8 degree courses, level 7 degrees will contain more practical work than level 8 degrees.

I said it depends on who you work for whether or not you'll be dealing with compliance matrices.

flash1080

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

...Including me!:). I've never seen a cert/diploma programme with as broad a scope as a degree - they're usually targetted towards very specific engineering fields rather than complete disciplines. It's vital to be exposed to a really broad range of knowledge, you never know where you might use it.

I'd agree though that degree students should get into the workplace earlier, but only through 3rd-year internships. It's a bit daft that you can study for 4 years but potentially have no idea how the actual job works.

There are loads of colleges with cert (level 6) -> diploma (level 7) in the parent disciplines. People with level 7 degrees can then progress into the third year (normally) of level 8 degrees.

apoeiguq3094y

flash1080 wrote: »

What's the bad advice? I didn't say do a 2 year cert or a 3 year diploma instead of a 4 year degree. I didn't say only do 2 years of a 4 year degree.

You need honours maths to do a level 8 degree regardless of whether it's in a university or IT. Level 8 degree in both universities and ITs are more theoretical than practical in nature. There will be a lot of maths in the theory parts in a level 8 Engineering degree whether it's in a university or IT. Level 7 degrees on the other hand require ordinary level maths and can lead to progression to level 8 degree courses, level 7 degrees will contain more practical work than level 8 degrees.

I said it depends on who you work for whether or not you'll be dealing with compliance matrices.

As for proving if you're capable, there's little difference in proof whether you've completed 2 or 4 years of college.

I (personally) think that's bad advice. If you start a degree and don't finish it, I think that's a very bad message to send to employers. If you disregard the last two years its not good advice either. In most 4 year programs the in-depth engineering courses are in the last 2 years, e.g fluid dynamics, fracture, fatigue of metals, finite element modelling, composite & polymer mechanics, materials.

I'd hate to meet an mechanical engineer who didn't know the difference between different fracture modes or who didn't know the difference between ferrite, austenite & pearlite steels. Wouldn't instill me with confidence when sitting in an A380... i mean the engine might fall to pieces.............

You can do level 8 without honours maths, some colleges run a special maths entrance exam. Although I think that if you weren't able for honours maths, you wouldn't be able for the math in engineering. But then I know of people who (stupidly) dropped to pass even though they were good enough for honours, nor realising that they were closing off a lot of their CAO options.

I think that when starting you aren't going to know what job you'll get at the end, so you need to get the best all round education in engineering that you can. You don't want to limit yourself by only studying some subjects.

When you start out you don't even know what you don't know, so how can you know what you want to know?

enda1

Funny that the OP placed a teasing little question which launched us all into this tirade against (an sometimes with) each other and then ran off observing the havoc he caused from the sidelines.

OP whatever route you choose, the most important thing is to have enjoy it. If you don't you will regret it when you are working because, hell, we don't do it for the money

flash1080

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

I (personally) think that's bad advice. If you start a degree and don't finish it, I think that's a very bad message to send to employers. If you disregard the last two years its not good advice either. In most 4 year programs the in-depth engineering courses are in the last 2 years, e.g fluid dynamics, fracture, fatigue of metals, finite element modelling, composite & polymer mechanics, materials.

I'd hate to meet an mechanical engineer who didn't know the difference between different fracture modes or who didn't know the difference between ferrite, austenite & pearlite steels. Wouldn't instill me with confidence when sitting in an A380... i mean the engine might fall to pieces.............

You can do level 8 without honours maths, some colleges run a special maths entrance exam. Although I think that if you weren't able for honours maths, you wouldn't be able for the math in engineering. But then I know of people who (stupidly) dropped to pass even though they were good enough for honours, nor realising that they were closing off a lot of their CAO options.

I think that when starting you aren't going to know what job you'll get at the end, so you need to get the best all round education in engineering that you can. You don't want to limit yourself by only studying some subjects.

When you start out you don't even know what you don't know, so how can you know what you want to know?

I didn't advise doing only two years of a four year degree.

Those special maths exams are based on LC Higher Level Maths.

MiamTea

Can I just ask, from an employers point of view, is a level 8 degree from an IT as good as a level 8 from a University? Should I be putting down universities as my higher preferences just because they're universities?!

Dardania

A piece in the paper last year seems relevant to your question: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0303/1224265501148.html

From remembering the article at the time, some of the ITs were slated, as was NUI Maynooth

I did elec engineering in DIT, and received a great education

Nukem

MiamTea wrote: »

Can I just ask, from an employers point of view, is a level 8 degree from an IT as good as a level 8 from a University? Should I be putting down universities as my higher preferences just because they're universities?!

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but if you do that there may be HR issues (e.g. your saying Uni degrees are better than ITs even though they are the same level in HETAC).

And from my own experience, studied in both IT and University - it comes down to the person and experience, not where they studied.

c-note

I studied Mech Eng in Bolton St.
I had a brother simultaneously studying mech eng in UCD.
And Lived for a year with a guy studyng mech end in TCD.

The suggestion that one college is better for "theoretical" vs "practical" or "technical" is notional tbh.

We all studied more or less the same material, doing more or less the same labs, (cant remember did trinity do machining workshops).
Oh my favourite difference was in dit we got to make the pattern and pour the molten aluminium, wheras my bro just saw a demo of casting.

For reasons of resources/equiptment/reputation i'd Choose UCD,
It's also good for progressing on to phd's if you interested (and have grades), as they do a lot of good research.

Then TCD, purely for its female/male populaton ratio. Reputationally i dont believe the MECHANICAL ENGINEERNG degree has any advantage over DIT.

If DIT is you choice, it's a good one. you wont be missing out academically. You just wont have as many shiney things to look at. (girls included). (OH also it's v easy to get a locker in DIT, not so in TCD (as of 5 years ago anyway))

I would also have considered DCU had i know anything about it.


Good Luck!

Darren1o1

actuallylike wrote: »

Can only speak for myself now, I did 3 years in DCU, got some smart people out there but left and transferred to Bolton Street. I know it was considered a step down, even my Bolton St lecturers were asking what I was doing there but the reason was in DCU, although their facilities were top notch and the lecturers were all pretty well respected I felt that the education I was getting was pretty sub par (just my experience now, that's all I can go on).
Reason being the lecturers all had their own stuff to work on, advancing their own research which was fair enough but I felt some lecturers lacked interest in the education part of it and usually got the run around about being too busy if I popped up to their office after class for help.

In Bolton St, I found the classes more personal, lecturers knowing your name and talking to you more. Basically it felt like school again which is what I needed (I need discipline ) and they never seemed to be busy when I knocked up to them and would go out of there way to help.

Admittedly, the resources can be limited but only when you compare them to the big Universities, like comparing a Mercedes to a pair of rollerskates (university to IT). I've been down in TCD before, using their library (absolutely amazing) and their labs (amazing equipment) but that's all, most of the stuff you'll never get to use. I also heard that the TCD course is more theory based but not sure what truth lies in that. Again, very hard to compare places if you've only been in one so just take my limited knowledge at face value.

+1 on the sausage fest by the way, not a looker in the bunch...bar me, I'm devilishly handsome;)

ps I don't work for DIT, rereading it there makes me look like a rep or something! As said above, there probably is no real difference in where you go. A Mechanical Engineering degree from anywhere will do you well.

I think it depends on what you want to do. Universities are more research based and IT's are more practical. I went DCU as I like the amount of CAE they applied to the programs and I wanted to be more research based. This will mean you deal with researchers rather than practitioners. The other big consideration IMO is work practice. DCU has INTRA in which you get a paid placement. Coming out of college this was the biggest thing for my resume. I would advise going to a program with this in it, as it can be difficult to find your own.

MiamTea

Thanks everyone for the advice, appreciate it !

Irish_Elect_Eng

From an Employers point of view.

(1) The college makes little difference, the degree gets your CV past HR and onto my desk.

Exceptions:
+1 for the two colleges that I attended.
+5 for distance learning degrees.
+10 for colleges with a business/research relationship with our company.

(2) The grade of the degree itself ceases to matter once you have some experience

A good reference from your previous engineering manager is better than a top grade
A good interview is better than a top grade

(3) I.T. Vs. Uni. Does not matter

Exceptions:
+1 IT - for some IT qualifications designed specific to the role rather than general degrees
+1 UNI -For some subjects that I have not seen taught in ITs.