new bus times and changes

wonton

(this has probably been pointed out already but...)

This sunday the new timetable for the dublin buses going to maynooth comes into effect.


The 67a is retiring and the 67 is now stalling it all the way to maynooth instead.

both the 66 and 67 have new timetables, which looks alright in that its almost the same 2 departure times every hour

slightly fewer buses. no more 66 going to kilcock.

merrion square is now the terminus instead of westmoreland street.

It seems the 66 doesnt stop at the liffey valley anymore, although i could be wrong.


http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/Travel-News/Network-Direct---LucanNorth-Kildare/




oh and on the website there is this useful bit of info for anybody confused by the complexity of bus timetables.

"Please note that new timetables read from left to right and then line by line as in a book or magazine"

PrivateEye

Routes 78 and 78a will now be called Route 40. Proposed Route 40 will be a high frequency route operating every 10 minutes at peak times. It will be extended from Ballyfermot to the north of the city offering new connections to Henry Street, O’Connell Street, the Mater Hospital, Dorset Street, Drumcondra, Phibsboro and Finglas, serving Dame Street in both directions. It will provide a quicker, more direct service benefitting from the priority of the College Green Bus Corridor in both directions

League of Ireland bus this.

Pats/Shels/Bohs right on the doorstep.

In all seriousness though, don't like a lot of these changes.

banquo

/puts in paper

Does anyone know if it still stops at Westmoreland Street?
Can't get the maps to work right.

wonton

ye looks like it.



Inbound: Bus stops are located on Bachelors Walk (Stop EN), College Street (Stop CW), Nassau Street (Stop NE), Merrion Square West (Stop no. 2810), Merrion Square South (Stop no. 4681 Terminus)



Outbound: Bus stops are located on Merrion Square South (Stop no. 4681 Terminus), Merrion Square North (Stop no. 493), Clare Street (Stop no. 494), Westland Row (Stop no. 495), Pearse Street (Stop no. 400 & Stop CF) & Westmoreland Street (Stop no. 312)

LeixlipRed

The real issue here is how many staff did they sack to bring in these changes? :rolleyes:

Seren_

wonton wrote: »

It seems the 66 doesnt stop at the liffey valley anymore, although i could be wrong.

:eek:

Thank god there's a New Look in Jervis now. But no more Vue ;_;

cython

Your Text Here wrote: »

:eek:

Thank god there's a New Look in Jervis now. But no more Vue ;_;

Looks here like the 25, 66/a/b and 67 all still stop at Liffey Valley.....

philologos

These changes are actually bad for Maynooth. The services from Maynooth to city and from city to Maynooth have been cut by a good bit if you compare the new timetable to the old one.

cython

Jakkass wrote: »

These changes are actually bad for Maynooth. The services from Maynooth to city and from city to Maynooth have been cut by a good bit if you compare the new timetable to the old one.

Ok, not to get into the specifics of whether it's good or bad for Maynooth, I would like to look at the second part of your post. Other than Sundays, I don't really see this reduction. Monday to Friday there are 4 less 66's out to Maynooth, one less on Saturdays, and admittedly significantly less on a Sunday. As for the 67, there are 10 more Monday to Friday than there were 67a's, over twice as many on a Saturday as there were 67a's, and one less on a Sunday. So, 6 of the 7 days in the week, there are actually more buses from the city to Maynooth, and a quick glance at the return leg looks like a similar situation.

philologos

^^ And generally people go in both ways should they be commuting. The times in the evenings from Maynooth on the 66 were bad enough already.

banquo

The Print happily accepts letters on this subject

ThePrint@nuimsu.com

lordgoat

Does this mean you can't get a bus from maynooth to liffey valley and vice versa?

funky penguin

Definitely not, that would mean taking some serious backroads from Lucan to Palmerstown!

cython

Jakkass wrote: »

^^ And generally people go in both ways should they be commuting. The times in the evenings from Maynooth on the 66 were bad enough already.

Eh, I did mention that the return looked similar. I'll admit that I haven't gone into the detail of the distributions of buses throughout the day wrt time, but to say without qualification that there are less buses now than there previously were between the city centre and Maynooth, and vice versa, is only true on Sundays.

philologos

In the opposite direction on Monday to Friday there is also less. Count the amount of times between both.

Clearly on counting there is a difference in the amount of times (both directions):
Old - http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/66/
New - http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/66-Revised-Route/

Perhaps I am blind or insane or both, if so please let me know!

*N.B - On looking I see there is an increase on the 67, but you'd be insane to desire to go through Celbridge when it adds minutes to your journey.
I must count the totals later and see. Either way it is bad.

Norrdeth

The 67 doesn't go to Maynooth, 67a does however.
Therefore increases in frequency are pretty useless for people travelling to and from Maynooth.

cython

Norrdeth wrote: »

The 67 doesn't go to Maynooth, 67a does however.
Therefore increases in frequency are pretty useless for people travelling to and from Maynooth.

Please look at the total changes before jumping in with comments like that. The 67a is being scrapped, and the 67 is being extended to Maynooth, so as of Sunday, additions to the 67 route are additional services to/from Maynooth.

I accept Jakkass's point that the new 67 route will be less efficient for people than the 66, but to be fair, Dublin Bus has never placed all that much emphasis on the convenience of their routes, in my experience. On the flip side of that though, I'm fairly certain that if I lived up in Moyglare Hall, where the 67 will now start from, and I was heading into the city on a miserable day, I would happily put up with the extra few minutes of travelling via Celbridge to get a bus that was only minutes from my front door.

wonton

cython wrote: »

Please look at the total changes before jumping in with comments like that. The 67a is being scrapped, and the 67 is being extended to Maynooth, so as of Sunday, additions to the 67 route are additional services to/from Maynooth.

I accept Jakkass's point that the new 67 route will be less efficient for people than the 66, but to be fair, Dublin Bus has never placed all that much emphasis on the convenience of their routes, in my experience. On the flip side of that though, I'm fairly certain that if I lived up in Moyglare Hall, where the 67 will now start from, and I was heading into the city on a miserable day, I would happily put up with the extra few minutes of travelling via Celbridge to get a bus that was only minutes from my front door.

the extension to moyglare is not happening till early 2011, the 67 is stopping at the usual 67a place.

allandanyways

wonton wrote: »

the extension to moyglare is not happening till early 2011, the 67 is stopping at the usual 67a place.

Even still, the amalgamation of the services is one of the only smart decisions DB have ever made with regard to this route. The old 67 route is/was pointless, stopping in Celbridge for the sake of 5 stops more to Maynooth. As a former student who will be coming back for a masters in the next two years, the amalgamation makes me very happy. There have been too many times where I've been waiting for a 67a bus for ages, the bus comes over the bridge, I'm all delira and excira until I see that it's a poxy 67.

Can anyone briefly explain to me the reasons behind changing the terminus to Merrion square? As if the rush to get on at Westmoreland St isn't bad enough as it is, the bus will be half packed by the time it gets there in the evenings.

philologos

cython wrote: »

I accept Jakkass's point that the new 67 route will be less efficient for people than the 66, but to be fair, Dublin Bus has never placed all that much emphasis on the convenience of their routes, in my experience. On the flip side of that though, I'm fairly certain that if I lived up in Moyglare Hall, where the 67 will now start from, and I was heading into the city on a miserable day, I would happily put up with the extra few minutes of travelling via Celbridge to get a bus that was only minutes from my front door.

Any bus company should place emphasis on the convenience of its routes for its customers. It is targetting customers for its services, and is marketing much of these changes as being favourable when they are far from it.

Shifting the balance more to the Celbridge customer is a bad idea.

allandanyways

Jakkass wrote: »

Not to mention that the 66 covers parts of Lucan where the 67 doesn't,

After the 67 and the 66 both come onto the M4 at the roundabout after the Springfield Hotel, the route is the exact same.

indeed and parts of Leixlip not within decent contact to either of the train stations.

Most of Celbridge doesn't have decent access to Hazelhatch train station either.

I never understand why people seem to think the 66 is a more important route than the 67/a. There are (according to wiki statistics anyway) more people living in Celbridge than in Leixlip. There is also a huge number of students living in Celbridge who don't drive and go to NUIM. There is also no train service to Maynooth from Celbridge. Increasing frequency on the 67/a service has been needed for a long, long time.

philologos

allandanyways wrote: »

I never understand why people seem to think the 66 is a more important route than the 67/a. There are (according to wiki statistics anyway) more people living in Celbridge than in Leixlip. There is also a huge number of students living in Celbridge who don't drive and go to NUIM. There is also no train service to Maynooth from Celbridge. Increasing frequency on the 67/a service has been needed for a long, long time.

I guess its because I have a sort of disdain for getting on the 67!

It is also considerably quicker for people wanting to get from the city to Maynooth to take the 66. The fact of the matter is that Celbridge traffic wise is always much worse.

According to Dublin Bus' average expected time for this (which is always understated):
The 66 will get you to the city in 49 minutes, whereas the 67 will get you there in 63 minutes. Perhaps I'm just taking an opportunity to be a grump about Dublin Bus but meh :pac:

If they could increase the time on both routes rather than on one to the detriment of another it would be actually a good announcement, but alas cutbacks etc etc etc.

allandanyways

Jakkass wrote: »

I guess its because I have a sort of disdain for getting on the 67!

It is also considerably quicker for people wanting to get from the city to Maynooth to take the 66. The fact of the matter is that Celbridge traffic wise is always much worse.

According to Dublin Bus' average expected time for this (which is always understated):
The 66 will get you to the city in 49 minutes, whereas the 67 will get you there in 63 minutes. Perhaps I'm just taking an opportunity to be a grump about Dublin Bus but meh :pac:

If they could increase the time on both routes rather than on one to the detriment of another it would be actually a good announcement, but alas cutbacks etc etc etc.

Tbh, I fail to see the point of going through Lucan. Very rarely do I see people actually getting on the bus in Celbridge and going to Lucan. I'm sure it happens, but I haven't seen it much. Can't speak for the 66 though. I hate the fact that the buses go through Lucan, there's always traffic and that slip road at the funeral home is a bottleneck, especially coming from town in the evenings.

As another poster said, DB rarely take convenience into account. Looking at bus systems in other European cities makes me sad, because they're feckin' space age in comparison to DB.

philologos

I suspect that if Dublin Bus didn't go through Lucan your journey would be a lot longer. (Even if it didn't I live along the N4 so it wouldn't affect me :pac:)

Edit: On reading, you mean through the village ah!

Speaking of bypassing towns, the 25a, and b don't go through Chapelizod anymore which is an absolute joy to hear. Not relevant to Maynoothians though.

cython

Jakkass wrote: »

Any bus company should place emphasis on the convenience of its routes for its customers. It is targetting customers for its services, and is marketing much of these changes as being favourable when they are far from it.

Shifting the balance more to the Celbridge customer is a bad idea.

Simply put it's public transport, and you're never going to completely please all the customers, all of the time. There's a reason taxis charge so much more to do just that. I still think the overall increase in the number of buses most days, and more balanced frequency of buses between Maynooth and Celbridge compared to the 66 route is a net improvement.

Jakkass wrote: »

I guess its because I have a sort of disdain for getting on the 67!

It is also considerably quicker for people wanting to get from the city to Maynooth to take the 66. The fact of the matter is that Celbridge traffic wise is always much worse.

It would be quicker again for these people if the bus didn't stop between the city and Maynooth too, but it would hardly be feasible. Many's the time I've wished that Bus Eireann would let you get on their bus and just get off in Maynooth as the first stop, but alas they don't because many of use would probably abuse it.

Jakkass wrote: »

According to Dublin Bus' average expected time for this (which is always understated):
The 66 will get you to the city in 49 minutes, whereas the 67 will get you there in 63 minutes. Perhaps I'm just taking an opportunity to be a grump about Dublin Bus but meh :pac:

If they could increase the time on both routes rather than on one to the detriment of another it would be actually a good announcement, but alas cutbacks etc etc etc.

I actually just looked at the Dublin Bus site, and assuming you came up with 49 mins and 63 mins by adding the times at the bottom of the timetable, I fear that DB may have made a few affecting omissions there. If you look closely:

66 Timetable wrote:

Merrion Sq. >> 10mins >> Parkgate St. >> 7mins >> Chapelizod >> 7mins >> Lucan Village >> 7mins >> Leixlip Village >> 18mins >> Maynooth

while

67 Timetable wrote:

Merrion Sq. >> 10mins >> O'Connell Bridge >> 10mins >> Parkgate St. >> 8mins >> Chapelizod >> 7mins >> Liffey Valley Shopping Centre >> 7mins >> Lucan Village >> 9mins >> Celbridge >> 12mins >> Straffan Rd. (Maynooth)

The majority of the apparent discrepancy in their times would come from that missing 10 mins, whereas the 66 route in the PDF outlining these changes illustrated that the routes would be the same between Dublin and Kew Park. Somehow (given the similar routes listed) I doubt the presence of a 6 rather than a 7 on the bus makes the 66 cover the bolded stretches that much faster......

philologos

cython: All it takes is a comparison between Celbridge at peak traffic, and Leixlip at peak traffic. From experience Celbridge is always worse, and from experience the 67A always takes longer without fail, even without traffic. But look, it's a futile argument I guess :pac:

They should have kept the 66's the same, and added more 67, but with cutbacks it was natural that they would do something like this.

cython

Jakkass wrote: »

cython: All it takes is a comparison between Celbridge at peak traffic, and Leixlip at peak traffic. From experience Celbridge is always worse, and from experience the 67A always takes longer without fail, even without traffic. But look, it's a futile argument I guess :pac:

They should have kept the 66's the same, and added more 67, but with cutbacks it was natural that they would do something like this.

Look, I know it takes longer from the times I've gotten it (though it's been a while since the last time), but it's just a pet peeve of mine when I see fallacious (and not through your own doing, I know) "facts" and figures used to make a point. It's like a red rag to a bull, so to speak.

As you've said though, it was unlikely they were going to just straight out add more 67's, so a balance had to be struck, and I don't see what would have been a better one while increasing the number of services between Celbridge and Maynooth. I know it has its drawbacks, but to be pretty honest, there will always be someone to find one fault or another with any changes brought in.

philologos

lol, SRSLY?

What's been fallacious? - I've said theres been a cut in the buses (which is true for the 66). When I looked at the 67, I edited my post to reflect this. This is called honesty I believe, no? If anything Dublin Bus are being dishonest by presenting this as a positive change

I think we're on different ends of the pragmatic - ideals distinction. I think Dublin Bus should strive to make their bus services better if they are making such changes. We both agree that this was probably as good as we were going to get, but nonetheless the criticism is warranted.

cython

Jakkass wrote: »

lol, SRSLY?

What's been fallacious? - I've said theres been a cut in the buses (which is true for the 66). When I looked at the 67, I edited my post to reflect this. This is called honesty I believe, no? If anything Dublin Bus are being dishonest by presenting this as a positive change

I think we're on different ends of the pragmatic - ideals distinction. I think Dublin Bus should strive to make their bus services better if they are making such changes. We both agree that this was probably as good as we were going to get, but nonetheless the criticism is warranted.

What I was referring to being fallacious was the time discrepancy you quoted in DB's estimate of the journey durations on each route due to their omission of certain legs of the 66 route that I highlighted. The figures they gave simply don't add up for the overlapping parts of the route.

lordgoat

cython wrote: »

What I was referring to being fallacious was the time discrepancy you quoted in DB's estimate of the journey durations on each route due to their omission of certain legs of the 66 route that I highlighted. The figures they gave simply don't add up for the overlapping parts of the route.

ASAIK the 66 doesn't stop at liffey valley anymore so it is feasible to go from
Chapelizod >> 7mins >> Lucan Village if there were no traffic.

The time differences you've highlighted are easily explained by the route and number of stops for each different bus.

cython

lordgoat wrote: »

ASAIK the 66 doesn't stop at liffey valley anymore so it is feasible to go from
Chapelizod >> 7mins >> Lucan Village if there were no traffic.

The time differences you've highlighted are easily explained by the route and number of stops for each different bus.

Is that definite? Because it contradicts the route map that they posted, and that I already linked to. Also, if you look at the fare stages on the bottom of each timetable, until the routes diverge west of Kew Park, both the 66 and 67 appear to have fares for the exact same stops....

Ms. Koi

The 66 still stops at Liffey Valley. It has never been marked as Liffey valley but " 37 63 Lucan Rd. (Kings Hospital School)" which is across the road from Liffey valley.