Deadlift Programs

the drifter

Ive decided after smolov id like a big deadlift...

other than coan what are my options.

P.S no bands or chains allowed.

Hanley

I got great results off a modified Gillingham DL routine. Took my DL from 190 to 210 as a wee nipper!!

http://www.jackalsgym.com/progcalc.aspx

Brad pulled 400kg last week at IPF worlds too... so he knwos a thing or two. Unlike Mendhi.

the drifter

Dude if I remember correctly that DL cycle was set up as follows:

Week 1: 75% 8x1 from the floor beltless
Week 2: rack pull to a max with a belt with the plates elevated about 2-3 inches off the floor, so mid shin really
Week 3: 82% 8x1 from the floor beltless
Week 4: rack pull to max from two inches below your knees
Week 5: 90% 8x1 from the floor beltless
Week 6: rack pull from knees to max
Week 7-12: repeat, aiming to break the rack pull numbers

75, 82 and 90% are of targeted max, but are done beltless thru the cycle
Rack pulls are done with a belt

interesting...i shall read more

Magic Eight Ball

kudos on the link.

I like the volume of the 8 week beginners powerlifting program.

the drifter

anyone got anything else?

whats peoples opinions on deadlifting more that 1x a week. Looking at the above program its once a week. This would leave me time to run a bench program as well.

brianthebard

What have you been doing for your dead since you started back out of interest?

the drifter

brianthebard wrote: »

What have you been doing for your dead since you started back out of interest?

Squatting :P

no seriously...pulled 180kg one the only day i deadlifted this year there about 2 weeks ago.

Scuba Ste

Lots of snatches and cleans, thats what i find works best.

the drifter

Scuba Ste wrote: »

Lots of snatches and cleans, thats what i find works best.

im also working on that :P


Im really looking for a structured program to follow.

cheers!

Hanley

Scuba Ste wrote: »

Lots of snatches and cleans, thats what i find works best.

For your deadlift...?

Even though they're totally different movement patterns...?

And the loading when it comes to effective deadlift training weight is incredibly submaximal...?

the drifter

Hanley

from your recommended program

Program: Brad Gillingham 16 Week Squat and Deadlift
Version: 1.0
Author: Brad Gillingham
Athlete:

This is the competition squat and deadlift program followed by Brad Gillingham the past 3 years. Brad is two time IPF SHW World Champion, once the masters IPF SHW World Champion, and holds numerous state, national, american, and world records. Assistance work is not included in the program. Deadlift Assistance work is Front Squats and Power Cleans done before deadlifting and Romanian Deadlifts done after deadlifting. For Squat the only assistance work is leg press done after squating. The power rack heights for partial deadlifts hit Brad right above the knee for hole #7 (24" from the ground). You may need to adjust your heights accordingly.


not arguing...just saying..

Hanley

the drifter wrote: »

Hanley

from your recommended program

Program: Brad Gillingham 16 Week Squat and Deadlift
Version: 1.0
Author: Brad Gillingham
Athlete:

This is the competition squat and deadlift program followed by Brad Gillingham the past 3 years. Brad is two time IPF SHW World Champion, once the masters IPF SHW World Champion, and holds numerous state, national, american, and world records. Assistance work is not included in the program. Deadlift Assistance work is Front Squats and Power Cleans done before deadlifting and Romanian Deadlifts done after deadlifting. For Squat the only assistance work is leg press done after squating. The power rack heights for partial deadlifts hit Brad right above the knee for hole #7 (24" from the ground). You may need to adjust your heights accordingly.


not arguing...just saying..

Yes... but look at all the deadlifting that's involved in the deadlift program. The power cleans aren't what make your deadlift bigger thru all that!!

And the first pull in cleans and snatches tend to be done under control, with the rapid acceleration coming as the bar passes the knee. The complete opposite of what should happen with a deadlift.

And with cleans and snatches, the whole objective is to stay over the bar and push the floor away. Try to do that with a near max DL and you'll get pulled onto your toes and miss it out front.

Not arguing... Just saying... Wait... I might be arguing. I dunno

EDIT: I'm never sure how knob-like I come across with those posts, but ya gotta remember I've had some REALLY good coaching in the olympic lifts. I didn't get to the level I wanted to due to injury, but I became decently proficient(ish) - 98kg snatch and 130kg power clean. And I know how to pull a decent deadlift, so I can compare the differences in both sports quite effectively!!

Scuba Ste

Hanley wrote: »

For your deadlift...?

Even though they're totally different movement patterns...?

And the loading when it comes to effective deadlift training weight is incredibly submaximal...?

It was said slightly tongue in cheek.

But the two times I've deadlifted in last ~6 months have been PR's and all I've done are snatches, cleans and squats so I assume there's some crossover.

Hanley

Scuba Ste wrote: »

It was said slightly tongue in cheek.

But the two times I've deadlifted in last ~6 months have been PR's and all I've done are snatches, cleans and squats so I assume there's some crossover.

Ah yeah there will be of course like... But it's not the best way to get a bigger deadlift. Which is what our all powerful mod is after.

I suppose what you said was right tho... since you don't do anything else for your deadlift, and your deadlift has gone up, they would have been the best way you found.

F*ck this. Look at me trying to be nice. It feels so dirty. And not in a good way. I wish I could f*cking snatch again.

Remmy

Hanley wrote: »

Ah yeah there will be of course like... But it's not the best way to get a bigger deadlift. Which is what our all powerful mod is after.

I suppose what you said was right tho... since you don't do anything else for your deadlift, and your deadlift has gone up, they would have been the best way you found.

F*ck this. Look at me trying to be nice. It feels so dirty. And not in a good way. I wish I could f*cking snatch again.

Hey Hanley would you mind explaining the difference between the first pull in the clean and a deadlift again for the denser in the audience?:oAlso would a heavy clean pull at about 90% done by a weightlifter still have the same movement pattern as the first pull or is it kinda basta#dised just to pull more weight?



*Remmy pounces in anytime he can scrounge any weightlifting tech info:o

Hanley

Remmy wrote: »

Hey Hanley would you mind explaining the difference between the first pull in the clean and a deadlift again for the denser in the audience?:oAlso would a heavy clean pull at about 90% done by a weightlifter still have the same movement pattern as the first pull or is it kinda basta#dised just to pull more weight?



*Remmy pounces in anytime he can scrounge any weightlifting tech info:o

I'll let the weightlifters correct me, but basically;

DL - you want to be thinking shoulders behind the bar in the start position, heels into the floor and driving your head and chest up and back, estentially leveraging the weight up. You're tryna straighten your back asap

Clean/Snatch - the only movement that should occur between the floor and above your knees is your legs straightening, think pushing the floor away. The reason for that is you want your shoulders over/ahead of the bar at that point so you can extend up harder and achieve triple extenstion more aggressively

Clean pulls should always mimic a clean start... that's why they're done.

Quick exp cos I'm leaving work, but anything unclear, shout and I'll try to answer later.

Scuba Ste

Hanley wrote: »

Ah yeah there will be of course like... But it's not the best way to get a bigger deadlift. Which is what our all powerful mod is after.

I suppose what you said was right tho... since you don't do anything else for your deadlift, and your deadlift has gone up, they would have been the best way you found.

F*ck this. Look at me trying to be nice. It feels so dirty. And not in a good way. I wish I could f*cking snatch again.

Yeah I didn't at all mean weightlifting is the best way to a bigger deadlift. I wouldn't know anything about a huge deadlift anyway.

I'd say some of the improvement in mine was due to the fact that I'd just got stronger too. Now I could deadlift more because I had stronger glutes and hams. Also my deadlift wasn't all that great to begin with so doing anything would probably help it.

Seriously though, a friend of mine who was a powerlifter tried this once. He did partial deadlifts starting from lockout with his target weight. So from lockout to mid thigh one week, lockout to knee the next etc all the way to the floor over a few weeks. I don't know much about the reps or sets but I thought it was interesting.

@ Remmy The difference between the deadlift and snatch/clean is basically as Hanley has it. The first pull is about getting your knees out of the way of bar so your ready for the second pull, back angle remains constant. I'm still only learning so I pull fairly slow until the bar is past the knees, its easy to pull fast because it's relatively light but try slow it down so your positions are right.

You can kinda see how these guys do it in slomo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5F7X-UBETE

the drifter

grrr didnt get time to read through the suggested program last night. I do like the idea of cleans as an assitance though.

anyone got any other programs?

Turbo_diesel

Hanley wrote: »

I'll let the weightlifters correct me, but basically;

DL - you want to be thinking shoulders behind the bar in the start position, heels into the floor and driving your head and chest up and back, estentially leveraging the weight up. You're tryna straighten your back asap

Hanley so you would have your shoulders behind the bar in the start position? Seen this vid over on crossfit ireland & seems to say shoulderblades should be over the bar? http://vimeo.com/11982885
Not saying anybody is right or wrong here are am looking at this wrong? Would Gem or anybody have any links to any videos showing the differences in postions for the deadlift & for cleans?

Hanley

Turbo_diesel wrote: »

Hanley wrote: »

I'll let the weightlifters correct me, but basically;

DL - you want to be thinking shoulders behind the bar in the start position, heels into the floor and driving your head and chest up and back, estentially leveraging the weight up. You're tryna straighten your back asap

Hanley so you would have your shoulders behind the bar in the start position? Seen this vid over on crossfit ireland & seems to say shoulderblades should be over the bar? http://vimeo.com/11982885
Not saying anybody is right or wrong here are am looking at this wrong? Would Gem or anybody have any links to any videos showing the differences in postions for the deadlift & for cleans?

You won't actually be able to lift the bar off the floor with your shoulders behind, but it's the act of thnking about it that sets you in the right position. It also gets you thinking about trying to get upright and leveraging bodyweight faster. Which leads to better deadlifting...

Turbo_diesel

Should hips be dropped lower when setting up to do a clean compared with doing a deadlift?

g'em

Short answer: yes

Longer answer: your back angle doesn't change much in the clean until the bar is at mid-thigh (mid second pull) so starting with lower hips helps you retain that angle thus helping you get max drive with the hips.

Turbo_diesel

g'em wrote: »

Short answer: yes

Longer answer: your back angle doesn't change much in the clean until the bar is at mid-thigh (mid second pull) so starting with lower hips helps you retain that angle thus helping you get max drive with the hips.

I always got confused over whether cleans are just the same set up & movement as deads until the bar went over the knee & then the explosive movement begins.

Hanley

Turbo_diesel wrote: »

I always got confused over whether cleans are just the same set up & movement as deads until the bar went over the knee & then the explosive movement begins.

They're subtly different in extremely important ways!!

Transform

g'em wrote: »

Short answer: yes

Longer answer: your back angle doesn't change much in the clean until the bar is at mid-thigh (mid second pull) so starting with lower hips helps you retain that angle thus helping you get max drive with the hips.

my advice after doing 2-3 years worth of progressive Deadlifting (dont do too much heavy work now as working on squats) -

1. Do heavy single reps no more often than once every 6-8 weeks

2. On the other weeks do 3-5reps and basic linear progression

3. Throw in a metcon with deadlifts (5-10 reps) with a light weight 60-100kg every second week just to get used to moving the bar fast

4. Do heavy partials/rack pulls on the weeks where you are not doing the deadlift metcon

5. And most importantly video all 3-5rep sets and lower sets as often as you can so you can see where you can make improvements e.g. hips rising too fast, loss of lumbar curve, weight not in heels, then go sort out mobility/stability issues to make it stick

i have rarely seen a guy/girl not make super progress in deadlifting when they had good mobility and could really hold a tight lumbar curve well in metcons (if they can hold it well there under pressure and with a banging heart rate then deadlifting heavy is not going to be a massive issue).

overhand_right

With regards to the bar should the bar be in contact with your legs from the starting point thru to the end of the lift?

g'em

for cleans or deadlifts?

Brian?

overhand_right wrote: »

With regards to the bar should the bar be in contact with your legs from the starting point thru to the end of the lift?

Deadlifts: yes

Brian?

the drifter wrote: »

Ive decided after smolov id like a big deadlift...

other than coan what are my options.

P.S no bands or chains allowed.

How come you don't want to do coan?

Hanley

briankeating wrote: »

How come you don't want to do coan?

A hell of a lot of people who start it can't finish it. And those that do finish it typcially end up coming in flat when it's time to test.

Unless you're Vis Vires.

the drifter

Hanley wrote: »

A hell of a lot of people who start it can't finish it. And those that do finish it typcially end up coming in flat when it's time to test.

Unless you're Vis Vires.

what he said....

ive ran it before didnt finish it and didnt rate it.

Brian?

the drifter wrote: »

what he said....

ive ran it before didnt finish it and didnt rate it.

Fair enough, I was merely curious.

I am also curious about something else. How come there are so many beginner/intermediate programs that perscribe squatting 3 times a week and none for deadlifting? Is it a lower back issue?

newby.204

Transform wrote: »

my advice after doing 2-3 years worth of progressive Deadlifting (dont do too much heavy work now as working on squats) -

1. Do heavy single reps no more often than once every 6-8 weeks

2. On the other weeks do 3-5reps and basic linear progression

3. Throw in a metcon with deadlifts (5-10 reps) with a light weight 60-100kg every second week just to get used to moving the bar fast

4. Do heavy partials/rack pulls on the weeks where you are not doing the deadlift metcon

5. And most importantly video all 3-5rep sets and lower sets as often as you can so you can see where you can make improvements e.g. hips rising too fast, loss of lumbar curve, weight not in heels, then go sort out mobility/stability issues to make it stick

i have rarely seen a guy/girl not make super progress in deadlifting when they had good mobility and could really hold a tight lumbar curve well in metcons (if they can hold it well there under pressure and with a banging heart rate then deadlifting heavy is not going to be a massive issue).

@ the part in bold

do you mean work up to your 1rmx1(e.g.170kgx1x1) once every 6-8 weeks or lift your 1rmx3(170kgx1x3), for example, once every 6/8weeks?

the drifter

briankeating wrote: »

Fair enough, I was merely curious.

I am also curious about something else. How come there are so many beginner/intermediate programs that perscribe squatting 3 times a week and none for deadlifting? Is it a lower back issue?

i would also like to know the proper answer for this....i personally would not like to deadlift 4 times a week...

but i still smolov

Hanley

newby.204 wrote: »

@ the part in bold

do you mean work up to your 1rmx1(e.g.170kgx1x1) once every 6-8 weeks or lift your 1rmx3(170kgx1x3), for example, once every 6/8weeks?

Open to correction, but I assume he means not to try and pull near max weights any more frequently than once every 6-8 weeks.

the drifter wrote: »

i would also like to know the proper answer for this....i personally would not like to deadlift 4 times a week...

but i still smolov

Legs = endurance and strength and relatively quick recovery

(think marathons, 20 rep squats etc etc)

Lower Back = stability and slow recovery

I'd say you'd end up dead if you tried to pull at smolov intensity and frequency on DL's... but you could try it and tell us!? I'd do anything for a bigger DL!!

the drifter

Hanley wrote: »

Open to correction, but I assume he means not to try and pull near max weights any more frequently than once every 6-8 weeks.



Legs = endurance and strength and relatively quick recovery

(think marathons, 20 rep squats etc etc)

Lower Back = stability and slow recovery

I'd say you'd end up dead if you tried to pull at smolov intensity and frequency on DL's... but you could try it and tell us!? I'd do anything for a bigger DL!!

No... i like our earlier discussed plan to increase my deadlift and and enable me to also bench a small semi detached house..

the drifter

Also there seems to be a serious lack of deadlift programs....in general