gaining strenght ?

midlands19

hey guys

19 male ,70kg,5ft7,9.9%bf

current programe from gym instructor
chin ups,
bench press,
squats,
upright row,
tricep dips,
arm curls,




I am starting traineing from next week onwrds till mid jan for a weight lifting comp (not that difficult i think could have more in it .No deadlift which is odd.)

comp is heaviset lift once of following .
squat.
preacher curl.
bench press .

i can currently do 75kg on squat
20kg curl
50kg bench
Thats at 10,8,6,4 reps

how can i build up these weights ?
i should prob but down my amount or cardio which is around 1hr-1hr 30 min/day

i should probly eat more aswell but hard to find time and know what to eat
i kept a food diary for week which i will put below .
takeing two proteine shakes a day 80grams each

Food diary
Thursday

10am- porridge . Diet coke .
2pm - spuds,cod,carrots,peas
5pm -bananas
7pm bananas
10pm dounots
11pm cheese tomatoes and onion sandwich

Friday
12am -diet coke and cake
1pm soup , curry cheese chips
7pm bananas
10pm coke donut

Saturday
12am -lucozade ,breakfast bar
3pm -spuds,peas,apple and custard
10pm -rasher sandwich

Sunday
2pm - chips ,¼ pounder with cheese
9pm- lucozade,donut
Monday

11am- scone and jam
4pm- spuds,peas,carrots
8pm -¼ pounder with cheese chips .

Tuesday
1pm -Beef burger and spuds
9pm- Donuts, coke

Wednesday
11am - breakfast roll
4pm- pork chop, peas
10pm- ¼ pounder chips, kp nuts ,diet coke

Zamboni

Curry chips, breakfast rolls, lucozade, kp nuts, doughnuts...seriously?

After all the advice you have been given on a variety of threads I am disappointed.

BadCharlie

Wow at diet, kind of like mine when at college :P

Hanley

Zamboni wrote: »

Curry chips, breakfast rolls, lucozade, kp nuts, doughnuts...seriously?

After all the advice you have been given on a variety of threads I am disappointed.

I ate a diet like tha thru college snd still managed to win 3 national powerlifting titles. Any advice for him on how to get stronger and ignore condscending comments??

g'em

Hanley wrote: »

Any advice for him on how to get stronger and ignore condscending comments??

If ever there was a time for a Pot and Kettle line... Would you ever wind your neck in Hanley, Zamboni has a point - this poster has requested diet advice on numerous occasions here. And before it's pointed out to me that the OP is requesting information on how to get strong I hardly think it's responsible for anyone to say to a 19 year old "eat away lad, sure it did me no harm" when his diet consists of:

Curry chips, breakfast rolls, lucozade, kp nuts, doughnuts

all highly processed foods, laden with sugar, devoid of nutritional value. His diet has virtually no fibre in it. Is a diet like that really going to put somebody at a good physiological advantage for adapting to a strength program? Have we really reached the point now where health is thrown out the window because all calories are calories and sure the end goal is strength.

I'm not saying he should be told to eat super strictly and clean but there's a happy medium - you can have a diet that's rich in vitamins, minerals and nutrients and has plenty of cheats in it.

Hanley

g'em wrote: »

If ever there was a time for a Pot and Kettle line... Would you ever wind your neck in Hanley, Zamboni has a point - this poster has requested diet advice on numerous occasions here. And before it's pointed out to me that the OP is requesting information on how to get strong I hardly think it's responsible for anyone to say to a 19 year old "eat away lad, sure it did me no harm" when his diet consists of:

Sorry. I didn't realise there was a moral and ethical responsibility on posters to answer questions not asked while ignoring the ones that have been asked. I'll just go back to the fitness logs too so.

Hanley

And OP before anyone can actually give you advice, tell us what a typical training week looks like.

g'em

Hanley wrote: »

Sorry. I didn't realise there was a moral and ethical responsibility on posters to answer questions not asked while ignoring the ones that have been asked. I'll just go back to the fitness logs too so.

There isn't. But there is a responsibility to be courteous and respectful towards fellow posters.

AntiVirus

Well I'm on expert on this but what I would do is increase the weight when you can complete all your sets 10,10,10,10. At the moment you're doing 10,8,6,4, this week try going for 10,9,7,5. Once you get 10x4 add on more weight.

Adding a lot more protein to your diet will help build your muscle as well.

top madra

Hanley wrote: »

. Any advice for him on how to get stronger and ignore condscending comments??

ya eat some proper food..

cake and diet coke for breakfast=breakfast of champions..
you say it worked for you thru college,op has a 50kg bench so get real..


srs op,if you wanna get stronger,start eating bigger and better food..

Hanley

top madra wrote: »

ya eat some proper food..

cake and diet coke for breakfast=breakfast of champions..
you say it worked for you thru college,op has a 50kg bench so get real..


srs op,if you wanna get stronger,start eating bigger and better food..

I don't "say" it worked. I have proof.

I'd be pretty confident in saying the OP's training is sub-optimal when it comes to strength gains. I've brought people to competition standard while they were eating sh!t. It's really not that complicated when you know what you're doing.

The fact you're more worried about his diet and not training when it comes to increasing strength, suggests you don't.

OP, this is going nowhere. Just PM me and I'll try to help ya.

EDIT: And just to clarify what I mean. I had one of my friends squatting and benching more than that, from no training, in 10-12 weeks, while weighing less, without him changing his diet no matter how much I pestered him.

d'Oracle

midlands19 wrote: »

comp is heaviset lift once of following .
squat.
preacher curl.
bench press .

What manner of comp is this?

Hanley wrote: »

OP, this is going nowhere. Just PM me and I'll try to help ya.

I'd take him up on that OP, if I were you....

top madra

Hanley wrote: »

The fact you're more worried about his diet and not training when it comes to increasing strength, suggests you don't.

OP, this is going nowhere. Just PM me and I'll try to help ya.

EDIT: And just to clarify what I mean. I had one of my friends squatting and benching more than that, from no training, in 10-12 weeks, while weighing less, without him changing his diet no matter how much I pestered him.

are you for real?

apart from noob gains,nobody is going to get bigger and stronger off a crap diet like that..unless hes got them superior genetics..

noob gains from your mate by any chance?

come at me bro..

g'em

top madra wrote: »

come at me bro..

This isn't Jersey Shore, dial it back a bit please.

It's entirely possible to make gains on a crap diet, I just don't think it's particularly within the ethos of a Fitness Forum to advocate it.

top madra

g'em wrote: »

This isn't Jersey Shore, dial it back a bit please.

.

i know...
but the last time i said something on here,he was jumping all over it too..

that diet is rubbish and op should be made well aware of this,..

Remmy

The op is quite light for his height..Is it possible that that the ammount of coke and sugers he is drinking is satiating his diet so he isnt getting enough calories at the end of the day to grow and gain strength?

Op maybe substitute milk for every time you have coke and lower your reps.








I didnt read your diet all the way through..Ah for fcuk sake you're hardly eating anything..I could eat your calories for the day in one meal.Do you have much money to spend on food per week?

d'Oracle

top madra wrote: »

apart from noob gains,nobody is going to get bigger and stronger off a crap diet like that..unless hes got them superior genetics..

Proof please.

top madra

d'Oracle wrote: »

Proof please.

lettuce us be cereal here you want proof?

avg male should eat 2500 cals a day
somebody training should eat more(depending on training and whatever there doing)
op does 1-1.5 hours cardio a day so i reckon he should be eating more..

i try to eat 3500 CLEAN cals a day

Food diary
Thursday

10am- porridge . Diet coke .
2pm - spuds,cod,carrots,peas
5pm -bananas
7pm bananas
10pm dounots
11pm cheese tomatoes and onion sandwich

Friday
12am -diet coke and cake
1pm soup , curry cheese chips
7pm bananas
10pm coke donut

Saturday
12am -lucozade ,breakfast bar
3pm -spuds,peas,apple and custard
10pm -rasher sandwich

Sunday
2pm - chips ,¼ pounder with cheese
9pm- lucozade,donut
Monday

11am- scone and jam
4pm- spuds,peas,carrots
8pm -¼ pounder with cheese chips .

Tuesday
1pm -Beef burger and spuds
9pm- Donuts, coke

Wednesday
11am - breakfast roll
4pm- pork chop, peas
10pm- ¼ pounder chips, kp nuts ,diet coke

im struggling to find 2500 cals there most days..
and if there is,there not even close to being clean cals

yeah maybe there is some people that will gain off a diet like that.
1..superior genetics
2..they will be fat and look like shiit..

can you honestly tell me you think ops diet is anyway good?

Frogdog

I'm a little bit hesitant to jump in here and give my advice to the OP, but here goes!

OP, I'm looking to make strength gains at the moment, like you. I'm doing the Starting Strength program, which some people on here are also doing. It's a very popular program worldwide and includes just 5 exercises - the squat, bench press, deadlift, (shoulder) press and power clean. I've been at the program 4 months and for my work sets I'm squatting 3x5x100kg and deadlifting 1x5x115kg. I won't tell you the other figures as they're not great! But basically, the program works, in my experience. Here's a link to it:

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wiki

In my opinion, and I may be wrong as there are posters on here already who are much stronger and have more knowledge than me, but I think it's a program you should consider. Now I am aware that you have a competition coming up and there are other lifts in it, but maybe it's something to look at in the future if you want to increase your strength gains.

Now for your diet, as previous posters have said - it's not "great" (ie. not clean, too much junkfood) but you can get away with it. However, I believe you need more whole foods. Particularly food containing protein as you're looking to get stronger. If I were you, which I'm not, I wouldn't drink anything bar water, full-fat milk and protein shakes until the competition. Get some form of protein in every time you eat a meal or a snack. So that means eggs, all types of dead animal/bird/fish, milk, cottage cheese, cheese, nuts and nut butters and natural/greek yoghurt. There's also a section in the above link which deals with how much you should eat, and what types of food you should eat, entitled "Nutrition, Supplements and Cardio". Here it is:

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Supplemental_Materials

And as for the amount of cardio you're doing, well this may impact upon your recovery from weightlifting. You might need to cut it back, or cut it out completely.

d'Oracle

top madra wrote: »

lettuce us be cereal here you want proof?

avg male should eat 2500 cals a day
somebody training should eat more(depending on training and whatever there doing)
op does 1-1.5 hours cardio a day so i reckon he should be eating more..

i try to eat 3500 CLEAN cals a day

Yes, I want you to prove your assertion that he cannot get stronger on his dirty diet.

top madra wrote: »

can you honestly tell me you think ops diet is anyway good?

.

This question is irrelevant.
It is actually a set up for what is called a strawman fallacy.
Fortunately I made no comment on the quality of OP's diet.

top madra

d'Oracle wrote: »

Yes, I want you to prove your assertion that he cannot get stronger on his dirty diet.
.

This question is irrelevant.
It is actually a set up for what is called a strawman fallacy.
Fortunately I made no comment on the quality of OP's diet.

yeah maybe there is some people that will gain off a diet like that.
1..superior genetics
2..they will be fat and look like shiit..

i did answer it...and ill stand by it.....
i did make a comment about ops diet,its shiit simple as..
and i stand by that too..

+even people on a dirty bulk diet,have protein in there,op has little to none

d'Oracle

top madra wrote: »

yeah maybe there is some people that will gain off a diet like that.
1..superior genetics
2..they will be fat and look like shiit..

i did answer it...and ill stand by it.....
i did make a comment about ops diet,its shiit simple as..
and i stand by that too..

Your response makes no sense.
Answer "it"? What is "it" exactly?

Where is your proof that someone would need some sort of genetic advantage to eat this diet and get stronger?

OP has 160g of protein a day.

Hanley

d'Oracle wrote: »

OP has 160g of protein a day.

Which is probably enough, considering he is only 70kg and probably eating enough kcals from the rest of his diet that protein won't be needed for energy purporses and can be used for recovery/muscle building.

I know that's what you're getting at, but Top Madra may not.

top madra

d'Oracle wrote: »

Your response makes no sense.
Answer "it"? What is "it" exactly?

Where is your proof that someone would need some sort of genetic advantage to eat this diet and get stronger?

OP has 160g of protein a day.

granted ill give you the protein bit,i skipped over the shakes..

so what your saying is..
i can stop eating all wholemeal foods,no brown anything from now on...and start munching down fastfood from here on in and ill still make gains and still be 12%bf..

will i fuk,ill be a fat [EMAIL="b@stard"]b@stard[/EMAIL] with my health in bits..

maybe there is a few that could eat this rubbish and get away with it but the average person wont..

more in your line to stop arguing with me to prove some STUPID point to make yourself feel good and actually give the op some good advice because im sure he health suffering if he carries on eating like that..

Hanley

top madra wrote: »

granted ill give you the protein bit,i skipped over the shakes..

so what your saying is..
i can stop eating all wholemeal foods,no brown anything from now on...and start munching down fastfood from here on in and ill still make gains and still be 12%bf..

will i fuk,ill be a fat [EMAIL="b@stard"]b@stard[/EMAIL] with my health in bits..

maybe there is a few that could eat this rubbish and get away with it but the average person wont..

more in your line to stop arguing with me to prove some STUPID point to make yourself feel good and actually give the op some good advice because im sure he health suffering if he carries on eating like that..

The strawman called, it's for you, he said "d'Oracle never said that you'd maintain a certain level of bodyfat with that diet, he specifcially avoided saying anything of the sort and only talked about getting stronger".

top madra

Hanley wrote: »

The strawman called, it's for you, he said "d'Oracle never said that you'd maintain a certain level of bodyfat with that diet, he specifcially avoided saying anything of the sort and only talked about getting stronger".

and getting fatter and looking like shiit and being as healthy as fuk...

oh wait...,thats what supposed to happen...gjdm..

d'Oracle

top madra wrote: »

more in your line to stop arguing with me to prove some STUPID point to make yourself feel good and actually give the op some good advice because im sure he health suffering if he carries on eating like that..

Cos that's what I am doing....:rolleyes:

midlands19

argeed on diet but prob is is dont eat eggs chicken for protein .

I have added nuts and more meat into it which should make a difference and changed from donuts sweets to nuts . Il start the milk now aswell.

And as said above i will cut down on cardio as soon as i have my fitness test done .

the drifter

Ive closed this for now as im just going home..

Ill read through it in a while delete the crap consider infracting some people and then reopen it.

If a fellow mod feels like doing this before im online again later feel free to work away.

the drifter

right...reopened....im going to do nothing for now...cause i have a feeling someone is about to get owned...and looking stupid on the internet should be punishment enough...

however if it gets insulting ill start owning people with the ban hammer....deal?

now back to answering the op's questions please.

Sangre

In my opinion bottom line is:

If the OP starts lifting with intensity at heavy reps, low sets for the compound exercises (e.g. squat, deadlift) he will get stronger.

If he does this while eating at a surplus he will get even stronger.

If he does this while eating at a surplus and getting a good macro balance (protein:carbs:fats) with healthy food he might get even stronger but he will also manage his muscle vs fat weight gain better.

The last option is the optimum one but just because it is the best option doesn't mean its the only option to get strong.

OP? What is your main goal? To get as strong as possible or to get stronger while staying relatively lean?

Remmy

Sangre wrote: »

In my opinion bottom line is:

If the OP starts lifting with intensity at heavy reps, low sets for the compound exercises (e.g. squat, deadlift) he will get stronger.

If he does this while eating at a surplus he will get even stronger.

If he does this while eating at a surplus and getting a good macro balance (protein:carbs:fats) with healthy food he might get even stronger but he will also manage his muscle vs fat weight gain better.

The last option is the optimum one but just because it is the best option doesn't mean its the only option to get strong.

OP? What is your main goal? To get as strong as possible or to get stronger while staying relatively lean?

good post.

midlands19

Sangre wrote: »

In my opinion bottom line is:

If the OP starts lifting with intensity at heavy reps, low sets for the compound exercises (e.g. squat, deadlift) he will get stronger.

If he does this while eating at a surplus he will get even stronger.

If he does this while eating at a surplus and getting a good macro balance (protein:carbs:fats) with healthy food he might get even stronger but he will also manage his muscle vs fat weight gain better.

The last option is the optimum one but just because it is the best option doesn't mean its the only option to get strong.

OP? What is your main goal? To get as strong as possible or to get stronger while staying relatively lean?

goal would be last one get stronger while staying relatively lean ......

Mellor

top madra wrote: »

apart from noob gains,nobody is going to get bigger and stronger off a crap diet like that..unless hes got them superior genetics..

You know what "The World's Strongest Man" is right, guys lugging about Tonka trucks, lifting stones Atlas would be proud of, squats and deadlifts of epic proportions.
I think'll we'll all admitt they are pretty much textbook examples of bigger and stonger.

Are you aware what these guys diets are like?
clue: it's not pretty

top madra wrote: »

OP's diet

im struggling to find 2500 cals there most days..
and if there is,there not even close to being clean cals

We all agree it isn't clean, but I have no idea where you are going from with being too little calories. how could it make him fat if there was too little calories (there aren't too little btw)

can you honestly tell me you think ops diet is anyway good?

I'm pretty sure nobody said, or thinks that.


The fact that you have repeatedly missed the point really means that you don't understand the issue here.
Nobody said it was the best diet, they said it wouldn't stop him getting bigger and stronger.
Eating clean is ideal, but the problem is that you reach a peak. At a certain point, you just can't eat any more cleanly. If you can get the cals cleanly, then go for it, but if you can't, its better to get them in some how.

midlands19 wrote: »

goal would be last one get stronger while staying relatively lean ......

Eating extra calories (500-1000 extra a day) and lifting heavy weights (something you can just manage to lift 5 times) will result in you getting bigger. Concentrate on squats, deadlift, bench press, overhead press and pull-ups

Eating clean will help keep you body fat low, there will always be some fat added when you add mass. Don't worry about it, you can go on a cut later.

top madra

Mellor wrote: »

QUOTE]

"The World's Strongest Man"=superior genetics in my book..

ill agree to disagree...
imo and this is IMO before any of ye feel the need to go picking holes in what i said...

most strongest men,powerlighters look like shiit,they maybe strong but they dont look good and the ones that kinda do are juicing(if they all arnt)

im more into bodybuilding and prefer to eat cleanly,of course when your bulking your gonna add fat,but having food like this

Saturday
12am -lucozade ,breakfast bar
3pm -spuds,peas,apple and custard
10pm -rasher sandwich

Sunday
2pm - chips ,¼ pounder with cheese
9pm- lucozade

and your main source of protein is from two shakes..
is retarded IMO..(how you can pull enough cals out of that im stumped)

if i was having a cheat day,sunday would be my lunch and what about the rest of the day..

i would prefer to give op advice where he changes his diet,eats cleanly and progresses over time,its a marathon not a race..

rather than bulking up on that crap diet and then spending months cutting all that fat...

op if i was you i would start reading up on nutrition(pm me if you like and i will link you to bodybuilding sites with a few 100,000 people to give you advice)
IMO change your diet,to me diet is as important as lifting weights..

you are what you eat after all..

Hanley

top madra wrote: »

Mellor wrote: »

QUOTE]

"The World's Strongest Man"=superior genetics in my book..

ill agree to disagree...
imo and this is IMO before any of ye feel the need to go picking holes in what i said...

most strongest men,powerlighters look like shiit,they maybe strong but they dont look good and the ones that kinda do are juicing(if they all arnt)

im more into bodybuilding and prefer to eat cleanly,of course when your bulking your gonna add fat,but having food like this

Saturday
12am -lucozade ,breakfast bar
3pm -spuds,peas,apple and custard
10pm -rasher sandwich

Sunday
2pm - chips ,¼ pounder with cheese
9pm- lucozade

and your main source of protein is from two shakes..
is retarded IMO..(how you can pull enough cals out of that im stumped)

if i was having a cheat day,sunday would be my lunch and what about the rest of the day..

i would prefer to give op advice where he changes his diet,eats cleanly and progresses over time,its a marathon not a race..

rather than bulking up on that crap diet and then spending months cutting all that fat...

op if i was you i would start reading up on nutrition(pm me if you like and i will link you to bodybuilding sites with a few 100,000 people to give you advice)
IMO change your diet,to me diet is as important as lifting weights..

you are what you eat after all..

If you are what you eat, can I have 1 plate of strong please, a side order for the OP, and links to powerlifters who look like sh!t that aren't American super heavy weights?

I assume you don't realise that the worlds biggest powerlifting federation is the IPF, it's drug tested and about 85% of its lifters are under 110kg? It's mostly european based with lifters in really good condition from what I've seen - but you typically don't see photos of them because all you see online is fat Americans in backyard federations squatting high, but hey, why let the truth get in the way of a good story?s

chadmustang

No one seems to notice there's a preacher curl event? What's going on here?!

Degsy

Lemme put it like this..you camn eat a shiiite diet like burgers and coke and lucozade till it comes out your ears in your 20's but when you hit 30+ you're gonna be as fat as hell and just as unhealthy and you WON'T be able to outrain a bad diet.

When you're a 20-something student its all good and its easy to take the fat off again but this will become more of a problem as you get older..much better not to get into the habit of eating garbage at all.

d'Oracle

chadmustang wrote: »

No one seems to notice there's a preacher curl event? What's going on here?!

I have acknowledged this twice.

top madra

Hanley wrote: »

If you are what you eat, can I have 1 plate of strong please, a side order for the OP, and links to powerlifters who look like sh!t that aren't American super heavy weights?

I assume you don't realise that the worlds biggest powerlifting federation is the IPF, it's drug tested and about 85% of its lifters are under 110kg? It's mostly european based with lifters in really good condition from what I've seen - but you typically don't see photos of them because all you see online is fat Americans in backyard federations squatting high, but hey, why let the truth get in the way of a good story?s

i couldnt be bothered replying to you again,because all you seem to do on here is be a smart arse with people(obviously your not a smart arse with your nut huggers on here)

so all these powerlifters you speak of are 100% natty.....lol
(i dont even think you believe that)

chadmustang

d'Oracle wrote: »

I have acknowledged this twice.

Sorry, what I meant was why has no making a bigger deal of the curling competition?

d'Oracle

chadmustang wrote: »

Sorry, what I meant was why has no making a bigger deal of the curling competition?

Everyone knows curls are awesome.

Hanley

top madra wrote: »

i couldnt be bothered replying to you again,because all you seem to do on here is be a smart arse with people(obviously your not a smart arse with your nut huggers on here)

so all these powerlifters you speak of are 100% natty.....lol
(i dont even think you believe that)

Look it was a fairly simple question. If you can't answer it the way you want to so you "prove" me wrong, just admit I was right.

I never said they were natural. But I know A LOT of natural powerlifters who are in good shape. I know a lot who aren't as well tho.

EDIT: As for the curls - mneh... At least he's testing his squat and deadlift in a judged atmosphere. Which is more than most do!!

top madra

Hanley wrote: »

Look it was a fairly simple question. If you can't answer it the way you want to so you "prove" me wrong, just admit I was right.

huh?
so you want to find pics of powerlifters that dont look good?
that wouldnt be hard..

p.s i just got a warning to leave you alone,so later mate....
i wont be replying to you again in case i get BANNED....LOL my life would then be over.....

the drifter

I gave this thread a chance last night. Im sorry i did that now.

Thanks lads.

Khannie

Top madra banned for ignoring mod warning / taking the piss. Have a nice break.