Commonly Broken Rules

stockdam

So what do you think are the most commonly broken rules?

I think it's probably not declaring a provisional ball. I hear people say that they'll hit another one; instead they should say that it's a provisional. Ok so they haven't broken any rule yet except when they play their first ball. So get into the habit of clearly stating that it is a provisional and also declaring the name and number of the provisional ball.

The next one that I see broken often is when people drop the ball under penalty. They often think that they can just throw a ball down anywhere (sometimes back onto the fairway more than 2 clublengths away). They do not realise that they have three options.

At the weekend I was playing a friendly match. The other guy hit the ball into some trees and the ball ended up under a big branch which was lying on the ground. He lifted the branch to see if it was his ball and the ball rolled down the hill. He threw the branch to one side and then replaced the ball and played on. I won the hole so said nothing.

So what did he do wrong? A player can lift his ball to identify it and I've seen players do this almost every shot and then they place it back (sometimes in a better position). In this case above, the guy should have told me first - he didn't so that's the hole lost already. He then should have marked the ball and lifted it. Next (if it was his ball) he should have placed it back exactly where it was before; in this case under the branch. Now if he moved the branch and the ball moved then there would have been a one shot penalty.

So the rule for identifying your ball is:

1. Tell your opponent or playing partners first.
2. Allow them time to come over as they can witness it if they want.
3. Mark your ball.
4. Lift it and identify it (you can remove mud etc. but only if it is essential to identify the ball)
5. Replace the ball in the exact same spot.




If you don't know the rules then download them here:

http://www.randa.org/en/RandA/Downloads-and-Publications.aspx

You can even get them on the iPhone.

Speak Now

People marking their ball on the greens can be very willy-nilly at times.

stockdam

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

People marking their ball on the greens can be very willy-nilly at times.

This is a weak rule as it doesn't state what you can use. The important thing is that you can put the ball back where it was.......you can use your finger or toe or you can mark the green with an "X". We commonly use a small disk but that's not a requirement.

Jasonw

Ironically the rule I see broken most often is players offering unsolicited advice.

eg. at a par 3 with another player yet to play " yeah, I thought my 6 iron would have got me there, I should have taken an extra club"

or " my putt broke about 6 inches" to a player with a similar line"

of the ever popular " You came up out of that one"

All advice and all penalities.

Worst I've seen yet was a a junior scratch cup. two buddies playing with each other. "That dentists appointment is at 3 today" after hitting a 3 iron to a par 3 before his friend hit. If they weren't so shockingly bad I'd have reported them.

GreeBo

- Not measuring a penalty drop from the ball, instead using the (a!) point of relief.
- Not taking full relief from GUR etc. (If you take relief then it must be full relief, you cant be standing etc in the GUR).
- Provo.
- Not marking the ball before lifting/dropping/placing.
- Advice.

AGC

People picking and choosing where they drop after being in a hazard and not measuring it out correctly.

Raking bunkers before playing the shot

Almaviva

Advice in general; club to play, commenting on put lines, green speed, advice on how to play a hole etc.
People who have no hope of scoring on a hole in a Stableford competition throwing down a ball and playing it out 'just for the practice'.
People taking a drop from a hazard that they are not sure to have entered - incorrectly deciding that they are probably in it, rather than virtually certain they are in it and so entitled to drop rather than a lost ball.
Playing a wrong ball and not applying a penalty.
Improving a lie through practice swings, grounding the club, breaking branches etc.
Grounding club in a hazard.

puttputt

Almaviva wrote: »

Advice in general; club to play, commenting on put lines, green speed, advice on how to play a hole etc.
People who have no hope of scoring on a hole in a Stableford competition throwing down a ball and playing it out 'just for the practice'.
People taking a drop from a hazard that they are not sure to have entered - incorrectly deciding that they are probably in it, rather than virtually certain they are in it and so entitled to drop rather than a lost ball.
Playing a wrong ball and not applying a penalty.
Improving a lie through practice swings, grounding the club, breaking branches etc.
Grounding club in a hazard.

Is this against the rules? Which rule applies?

Almaviva

puttputt wrote: »

Is this against the rules? Which rule applies?

7-2. During Round
A player must not make a practice stroke during play of a hole. Between the play of two holes, a player must not make a practice stroke, except that he may practice putting or chipping on or near:

(a) the putting green of the hole last played,
(b) any practice putting green, or
(c) the teeing ground of the next hole to be played in the round,

provided a practice stroke is not made from a hazard and does not unduly delay play (Rule 6-7).

Strokes made in continuing the play of a hole, the result of which has been decided, are not practice strokes.

Exception: When play has been suspended by the Committee, a player may, prior to resumption of play, practice (a) as provided in this Rule, (b) anywhere other than on the competition course and (c) as otherwise permitted by the Committee.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 7-2:
Match play — Loss of hole; Stroke play — Two strokes.
In the event of a breach between the play of two holes, the penalty applies to the next hole.

Note 1: A practice swing is not a practice stroke and may be taken at any place, provided the player does not breach the Rules.

Note 2: The Committee may, in the conditions of a competition (Rule 33-1), prohibit:
(a) practice on or near the putting green of the hole last played, and
(b) rolling a ball on the putting green of the hole last played.




i.e. its OK to continue to play out the hole even if you can no longer score a point - if you are still playing a ball legitimately in play, but it becomes a practice swing if you are hitting a ball that is not continuing play of that hole. For eg. you hit the first two tee shots out of bound, and can no longer score. But you hit a third tee shot and play out the hole - OK. If you walk down after the first two hoping to find one of them but dont, and then giving up on the hole, just drop one to play out - Not OK.

Russman

Unfortunately the advice one is a bit grey, or maybe I should say a lot of people think they know it when they don't.
I've seen an inter club match where one guy picked up his ball and walked to the next tee, claiming the hole, because a spectator had told his opponent where the flag was. The opponent was only a very young junior and hadn't a clue what to do, so went along with the older guy and conceded the hole. He ended up getting an apology from the older guy's club afterwards but the damage was done with the loss of the hole and subsequently the match.

Most common one I see though is dropping incorrectly from hazards.

davo10

I once played against a guy in an interclub comp, he had a marker for his ball on the green which was bigger than a dollar coin, each time he marked his ball on the green he would put this huge thing on the hole side of the ball and each time he replaced his ball he would put the ball on the hole side of the marker gaining about an inch and a half. On one hole where he had an up hill put about 3 feet from the hole, he remarked his ball twice gaining about 3 inches in total, I told him if he remarked it a few more times he would have a nasty downhill put. I was winning so I didnt make a big issue of it.

Without a doubt though the worst and I would say most common rule broken is signing for a wrong score, incidently always check the card you are signing, I had a awkward moment during the summer where I signed the card of someone I was playing with without looking at it, I got a call the following day from the handicap secretary to come up and look at the card entered by the player, one of the other guys in the 4ball that day reckoned the player had put in a wrong score and I had to explain that I hadn't in fact checked the scores before signing it for him. I got more of a ticking off then the other guy did.

GreeBo

Almaviva wrote: »

7-2. During Round
A player must not make a practice stroke during play of a hole. Between the play of two holes, a player must not make a practice stroke, except that he may practice putting or chipping on or near:

(a) the putting green of the hole last played,
(b) any practice putting green, or
(c) the teeing ground of the next hole to be played in the round,

provided a practice stroke is not made from a hazard and does not unduly delay play (Rule 6-7).

Strokes made in continuing the play of a hole, the result of which has been decided, are not practice strokes.

Exception: When play has been suspended by the Committee, a player may, prior to resumption of play, practice (a) as provided in this Rule, (b) anywhere other than on the competition course and (c) as otherwise permitted by the Committee.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 7-2:
Match play — Loss of hole; Stroke play — Two strokes.
In the event of a breach between the play of two holes, the penalty applies to the next hole.

I dont see how it matters. The penalty is 2 strokes, which have no relevance if you are already out of the points in a s'ford round?

Possibly the last bit could penalise you on the next hole, but I dont think so.

Almaviva

GreeBo wrote: »

I dont see how it matters. The penalty is 2 strokes, which have no relevance if you are already out of the points in a s'ford round?

Possibly the last bit could penalise you on the next hole, but I dont think so.

That is how it reads to me but have never seen it applied. Once you drop the 'practice' ball and so are not playing the hole for a score you could put down on your card anymore, the hole is complete. Or if you argue that the hole is still in progress, and you could in theory go back and continue it properly, then you have hit a practice sht during the play of the hole. So still qualifies as a practice stroke. And so hitting shots that are not chips/putts around the green are therefore practice shots. And to be correct, you should apply the 2 shot penalty on the next hole. Stableford being played according to the 'strokeplay' as far as the rules and penalties are concerned.

The aim of the rule is that you should not be able to hit shots for the purpose of practice during the course of a round without penalty. Ruining a hole does not give you a get out and allow you to hit a few practice ones before you have to hit it for real again onthe next tee.

Trampas

Pressing that grass down behind the ball

strokes1

Trampas wrote: »

Pressing that grass down behind the ball

Is this illegal? It bugs the hell out of me when I see people do it!!!

Trampas

strokes1 wrote: »

Is this illegal? It bugs the hell out of me when I see people do it!!!

As far as I know it is.

You are improving your lie by pressing the grass down. You are allowed place you club behind it but I think pressing the grass down to keep it down is wrong

stockdam

Trampas wrote: »

Pressing that grass down behind the ball

You can't improve your lie as you said. I've seen people walk round in circles in the deep rough looking for their ball and then they find it in a perfect lie in the middle of a "crop circle".

strokes1

stockdam wrote: »

You can't improve your lie as you said. I've seen people walk round in circles in the deep rough looking for their ball and then they find it in a perfect lie in the middle of a "crop circle".

Brilliant! Must bring my flymo next time!!

mammy1975

strokes1 wrote: »

Brilliant! Must bring my flymo next time!!

:D

Webbs

Trampas wrote: »

As far as I know it is.

You are improving your lie by pressing the grass down. You are allowed place you club behind it but I think pressing the grass down to keep it down is wrong

Must admit this is a rule that I am not sure about as well, what is the difference between pressing down the grass behind the ball (and obviously not moving the ball in any way) and removing a branch or rock behind the ball? Is it that the latter are considered moveable objects?

Jasonw

Webbs wrote: »

Must admit this is a rule that I am not sure about as well, what is the difference between pressing down the grass behind the ball (and obviously not moving the ball in any way) and removing a branch or rock behind the ball? Is it that the latter are considered moveable objects?

when not in a hazzard you are allowed to 'ground' your club. ie your club may rest on the ground. Once you apply any downward pressure to the club you are pressing down.

You are allowed to remove anything that is not growing as long as they are loose, so you can't go digging rocks out of the ground. Also fallen leaves or twigs as long as they are not adhered to the ball. Obviously as you say without moving the ball. so it's ok to remove a fallen leaf behind your ball but if a wet leaf or grass cuttings have adhered themselves to your ball you may not remove them even if you can do so without moving your ball.

Webbs

Jasonw wrote: »

when not in a hazzard you are allowed to 'ground' your club. ie your club may rest on the ground. Once you apply any downward pressure to the club you are pressing down.

You are allowed to remove anything that is not growing as long as they are loose, so you can't go digging rocks out of the ground. Also fallen leaves or twigs as long as they are not adhered to the ball. Obviously as you say without moving the ball. so it's ok to remove a fallen leaf behind your ball but if a wet leaf or grass cuttings have adhered themselves to your ball you may not remove them even if you can do so without moving your ball.

This still doesnt really clear up the person who uses their foot to press down grass behind the ball before then addressing the ball, is this actually illegal if the ball does not move or any grass touching the ball isnt moved?

GreeBo

Webbs wrote: »

This still doesnt really clear up the person who uses their foot to press down grass behind the ball before then addressing the ball, is this actually illegal if the ball does not move or any grass touching the ball isnt moved?

It does as they are improving their lie.
Note that you can do this on the tee.

Basically you are allowed to let the grass take the weight of the club, anything else is a breach. In a hazard letting the weight of the club be taken is a breech. Note that you can make contact against grass/reeds etc during your swing, but you cannot ground the club. (have the weight of it supported)

stockdam

Webbs wrote: »

This still doesnt really clear up the person who uses their foot to press down grass behind the ball before then addressing the ball, is this actually illegal if the ball does not move or any grass touching the ball isnt moved?

You cannot press down behind the ball with your foot. All you are allowed to do is to take your stance, lightly ground the club and then hit. You can't press your club down, rake the ground, bend or break any plant etc.

Some people try to walk down long grass when in the rough but this is against the rules (cheating).

Just remember that you have to play the ball as it lies. That means that if there's a nasty clump of grass behind the ball then that's tough.

forkassed

Is it a penalty if you hit a branch on your backswing? Or is it only a penalty if that happens in a hazard?

stockdam

GreeBo wrote: »

In a hazard letting the weight of the club be taken is a breech. Note that you can make contact against grass/reeds etc during your swing, but you cannot ground the club. (have the weight of it supported)

One thing to be careful about is that you are not allowed to remove any loose object in a hazard nor are you allowed to touch or move a loose object on your backswing in a hazard. Note that you can strike the removable object on your forward swing - the backswing is not deemed to be part of the "stroke".

stockdam

forkassed wrote: »

Is it a penalty if you hit a branch on your backswing? Or is it only a penalty if that happens in a hazard?

If the branch is growing then it's not a penalty to hit it on your backswing as long as you complete the shot. If you hit it on a practice or aborted swing then it's a penalty. It's the same in a hazard - however you cannot touch a removable object in your backswing in a hazard.

Sandwlch

stockdam wrote: »

. If you hit it on a practice or aborted swing then it's a penalty.

I dont think you are correct on this point Stockdam. You can hit a branch on a practice or aborted swing without penalty. The penalty applies if you are considered to have improved your situation - generally take to be if you knock leaves or twigs. Its in one of the Decisions books afaik.

Speak Now

Sandwlch wrote: »

I dont think you are correct on this point Stockdam. You can hit a branch on a practice or aborted swing without penalty. The penalty applies if you are considered to have improved your situation - generally take to be if you knock leaves or twigs. Its in one of the Decisions books afaik.

This was how i always applied the rule as well. I might have to disqualify myself from lots of past competitions (just as well i dont win prizes :pac:).

It is Stockdam's rule thread though so let's see what he thinks?

stockdam

Sandwlch wrote: »

I dont think you are correct on this point Stockdam. You can hit a branch on a practice or aborted swing without penalty. The penalty applies if you are considered to have improved your situation - generally take to be if you knock leaves or twigs. Its in one of the Decisions books afaik.

Sorry you are right........it's a penalty if you improve anything (make it easier). We were talking about improving the lie/stance and I should have said "hit and in so doing, improve". I was replying to forkassed - he (she) used the word "hit".

Improving would be when you take several practice backswings and permanently bend or break a branch.

GreeBo

stockdam wrote: »

One thing to be careful about is that you are not allowed to remove any loose object in a hazard nor are you allowed to touch or move a loose object on your backswing in a hazard. Note that you can strike the removable object on your forward swing - the backswing is not deemed to be part of the "stroke".

Yeah, I remember seeing someone lose a playoff on this one, he assumed the reed he hit was growing but it was actually just sitting there.
In fairness he called it on himself....doh.

stockdam

GreeBo wrote: »

Yeah, I remember seeing someone lose a playoff on this one, he assumed the reed he hit was growing but it was actually just sitting there.
In fairness he called it on himself....doh.

That was Brian Davis at the Verizon Heritage. He hardly touched the reed and it was clear that he hadn't gained any advantage. However the rules are black and white so he called the penalty.

Jasonw

Another commonly misapplied rule is the taking of relief from paths or staked trees, assuming relief is allowed in the first place.

The rule is 1 clublength from the nearest point of relief. That is Nearest - Not nicest! If your ball lies on a path for example with an embankment (that isn't a hazzard) or heavy rough on one side and fairway on the other and your nearest point of relief (including your stance) is on the rough side then that is where you must drop.

Example


Rough

---

O (ball)

---

Fairway ----> direction of play (right handed golfer)




in this above example the ball must be dropped in the rough.

Also, It's one club length, not one clublength with headcover, place the marker a bitoutside that then drop the ball outside that again.

While I'm at it, I see guys drop the ball twice right at the edge of the mark and think they can place it just because it rolls outside the mark - not so. only if it rolls more than 2 clublengths or nearer the hole than where it originally lay before relief was taken.

I meet very few golfers who are good with the rules. This is because they learn the 'rules' from golfers who in turn learned from other golfers. Soon a common misconception takes hold within large groups of golfers as to what should be done in certain situations. The only way to break the cycle if to pick up a copy of the rules and read it. FWIW the decisions book makes good reading.

A situation happened with me a couple of years ago where I was taking a penalty drop. The ball was dropped inside the markers and because it was on a slope rolled about 4 feet outside the markers. I declared that the ball was now in play but my playing partner (a 5 hadicapper and past club president) insisted that the ball had to stay within the markers. Even when I showed him the rulebook he wouldn't accept it. We played on after agreeing to consult the Comp. secretary after the round for a ruling.
The Comp secretary (also a single figure golfer and past captain) ruled against me and only after much insisting agreed to consult the GUI. Obviously as the ball had not rolled more than 2 clublengths they rulled in my favour. It's not a reflection on them, just an example of how just because you've been doing something a certain way for years dosen't necessarly make it right.

thewobbler

The most important thing in golf is playing in the spirit of the game.

Rules are important, but a rules Nazi does nothing but ruin the game for his playing partners.

Apply commonsense, never award yourself an unfair advantage, and concentrate on your swing. Follow these maxims and the game evens itself out over time for you and your opponents, without having to decipher and interpret what is frankly, often a load of nonsense.

WHIP IT!

thewobbler wrote: »

The most important thing in golf is playing in the spirit of the game.

Rules are important, but a rules Nazi does nothing but ruin the game for his playing partners.

Apply commonsense, never award yourself an unfair advantage, and concentrate on your swing. Follow these maxims and the game evens itself out over time for you and your opponents, without having to decipher and interpret what is frankly, often a load of nonsense.

I would concur with that wholeheartedly - but as I play almost exclusively casual golf with pals as well as the most relaxed work society in the world, it's kind of a different story. If I was regularly playing in club comps, on club teams or in Open competitions, I'd never take a risk with a rule.

Sandwlch

thewobbler wrote: »

The most important thing in golf is playing in the spirit of the game.

Rules are important, but a rules Nazi does nothing but ruin the game for his playing partners.

Apply commonsense, never award yourself an unfair advantage, and concentrate on your swing. Follow these maxims and the game evens itself out over time for you and your opponents, without having to decipher and interpret what is frankly, often a load of nonsense.

I would disagree with that wholeheartedly. There is no such thing as commonsense - everyone has their own opinion on what that is - with views especially prone to distortion if it is commonsense relating to your own ball.

You cannot open that door, and the only way to ensure equity is for everyone to know and observe the same rules.

If one player causes his own ball to move 5mm by touching the ground when addressing it on the fairway he might convince himself that he didnt mean to move it, has gained no advantage and so does not need to add a stroke. Another player will see it as commonsense to follow a clear rule of golf and observe the rule and penalise himself. Not much justice in two different versions of commonsense.

Jasonw

Sandwlch wrote: »

I would disagree with that wholeheartedly. There is no such thing as commonsense - everyone has their own opinion on what that is - with views especially prone to distortion if it is commonsense relating to your own ball.

You cannot open that door, and the only way to ensure equity is for everyone to know and observe the same rules.

If one player causes his own ball to move 5mm by touching the ground when addressing it on the fairway he might convince himself that he didnt mean to move it, has gained no advantage and so does not need to add a stroke. Another player will see it as commonsense to follow a clear rule of golf and observe the rule and penalise himself. Not much justice in two different versions of commonsense.

I would agree with that wholeheartedly.

It's one thing playing a casual round with your mates. In that case you can make up whatever rules you wish. But, once you sign in to play in a competition, whether it is a midweek scramble with 2 teams entered or the ryder cup, you are expected to follow the rules to the letter. It's the only way to ensure that everybody is playing on a level playing pitch so to speak.

If you're uncomfortable with that it's simple, Continue to enjoy your casual rounds of golf but don't enter competitions.

I remember thinking how unfair it was when I first started playing society golf that I got disqualified after winning my first competition because I had arrived early and played 2 practice holes while I was waiting for the others to arrive (out of ignorance of the rules mind you). Of course it was right that I was disqualified but I only had myself to blame.

stockdam

thewobbler wrote: »

The most important thing in golf is playing in the spirit of the game.

Rules are important, but a rules Nazi does nothing but ruin the game for his playing partners.

Apply commonsense, never award yourself an unfair advantage, and concentrate on your swing. Follow these maxims and the game evens itself out over time for you and your opponents, without having to decipher and interpret what is frankly, often a load of nonsense.

If you are playing with mates then that's fine. However if you are playing in a competition or a match then you stick to the rules. The only rules Nazi that needs to be present is yourself.......you should call your own penalties and know what the rules are. The only time that a round is ruined is when somebody hasn't bothered to learn the rules and then thinks it's unfair that they are penalised.

BoardsMember

thewobbler wrote: »

The most important thing in golf is playing in the spirit of the game.

Rules are important, but a rules Nazi does nothing but ruin the game for his playing partners.

Apply commonsense, never award yourself an unfair advantage, and concentrate on your swing. Follow these maxims and the game evens itself out over time for you and your opponents, without having to decipher and interpret what is frankly, often a load of nonsense.

Absolute nonsense, completely misses the point of the rules in the first place.

Speak Now

99% of golfers will not know every rule so should always have the rule book in their bag. Lots of golfers assume his playing partners are so much wiser and take their ruling as correct. Even the pro's need to refer to the match ref at times. No shame in pulling out the book and letting the group behind play through if needs be.

No sympathy for sob stories you hear in the bar from disqualified golfers who put the blame on someone else.

GreeBo

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

99% of golfers will not know every rule so should always have the rule book in their bag. Lots of golfers assume his playing partners are so much wiser and take their ruling as correct. Even the pro's need to refer to the match ref at times. No shame in pulling out the book and letting the group behind play through if needs be.

No sympathy for sob stories you hear in the bar from disqualified golfers who put the blame on someone else.

99% of golfers dont know the basic rules that you can expect to encounter during an average game. I dont have an issue with people not knowing obscure rules (thats why you carry a rule book) but not knowing about declaring a provo, how/where/when to drop, improving your lie etc is just basic stuff.

Speak Now

GreeBo wrote: »

99% of golfers dont know the basic rules that you can expect to encounter during an average game. I dont have an issue with people not knowing obscure rules (thats why you carry a rule book) but not knowing about declaring a provo, how/where/when to drop, improving your lie etc is just basic stuff.

Same guys that will never mark a scorecard

My biggest pet hate in singles is the guy who asks on the first who's marking the cards lads. Ah we are all are ya chancer. Then half way around asks....what did you get on the 6th and 7th :mad:

Anto12

That would wreck my head of 1 lad wasnt willing to fill out his score card - then dont enter the comp.. Thank god I havent met any of those lads yet !! No problem with a guy starting off and he's not sure how to mark the score card - always will help those guys out

Sir Shankalot

One rule a few playing partners of mine were not aware of:

You hit a shot into a green and it pitches on the fringe and spins back by a foot. You are not allowed to repair the pitch mark on the fringe (as in not on the green) even if it is directly on your line to the hole. I know people would never dream of doing it if back on the fairway etc but I have seen people with the putter in hand repairing the pitch mark assuming they are allowed to do so. As is so often the case there is nothing underhanded in their actions, just igonorance of the rule - they know now though!