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EU citizenship

  • 15-11-2010 4:08am
    #1
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭


    I'd like to know how to reject my EU citizenship. I just read an article about how the EU has decided to go ahead with a deal to furnish Israel with personal information of EU citizens. I don't want my information going to Israel, which I believe to be a terrorist state, so I'd like to reject my EU citizenship as I never applied for it in the first place.

    Can John explain how I'd go about doing this? Will it affect my Irish citizenship?
    EU's Israel data transfer deal to proceed despite Irish veto

    AN EU deal to allow the transfer to Israel of sensitive personal data on European citizens is set to go ahead after Irish attempts to block the initiative ran aground.

    Angry at the use of fake Irish passports by the alleged Israeli assassins of a senior Hamas operative, Dublin tried to block moves to declare that the EU recognises Israeli data protection standards as being sufficient to allow member states to transfer personal data there.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/1112/1224283152213.html


Comments

  • #2
    View
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    That's easy. You just have to figure out how to get rid of your Irish citizenship...


  • #3
    TalkToEU: John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭TalkToEU: John


    Hi Panchovilla,

    In order to announce your EU citizenship, you would have to renounce your Irish citizenship. It is your Irish citizenship that makes you an EU citizen.

    Conversely, this also means that you couldn't renounce your Irish citizenship, yet remain an EU citizen, since EU citizenship is dependent on national citizenship.


  • #4
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    TalkToEU: John wrote: »
    Hi Panchovilla,

    In order to announce your EU citizenship, you would have to renounce your Irish citizenship. It is your Irish citizenship that makes you an EU citizen.

    Conversely, this also means that you couldn't renounce your Irish citizenship, yet remain an EU citizen, since EU citizenship is dependent on national citizenship.

    So essentially the EU has become a federal superstate much like the U.S.? Ireland is no longer an independent, sovereign nation? How long until the Dáil is dissolved and we are forced to swear allegiance to the European Union? I don't think this is what people signed up to when they voted for the Lisbon Treaty. I was born in Ireland, I was not born in the EU.


  • #5
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    So essentially the EU has become a federal superstate much like the U.S.? Ireland is no longer an independent, sovereign nation?
    No and no
    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    How long until the Dáil is dissolved and we are forced to swear allegiance to the European Union?
    It'll happen if and only if the citizens of Ireland democratically vote for it
    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    I don't think this is what people signed up to when they voted for the Lisbon Treaty.
    It's not. That's why there was nothing in the Treaty that was even close to relevant to anything you've said.
    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    I was born in Ireland, I was not born in the EU.
    You were born in a country that democratically elected to join the EU, just like Ireland is a membera of a whole host of other organisations (UN, OECD, WTO) that you didn't get a personal say in. If you want Ireland out of the EU, form a party on that basis, and get elected. Good luck!

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  • #6
    BetterLisbon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭BetterLisbon


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    I'd like to know how to reject my EU citizenship. I just read an article about how the EU has decided to go ahead with a deal to furnish Israel with personal information of EU citizens. I don't want my information going to Israel, which I believe to be a terrorist state, so I'd like to reject my EU citizenship as I never applied for it in the first place.

    Can John explain how I'd go about doing this? Will it affect my Irish citizenship?



    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/1112/1224283152213.html

    This is an interesting question and becomes a real question under Lisbon as pre-Lisbon EU-Citizenship had no practical effect. I have looked into this myself and EU citizenship is automatically conferred on Irish citizens. It is however possible to be a UK citizen but not an EU citizen thus national and union citizenship can be legally seperated. So you can lobby the government to pass similar legislation (fat chance when they are all so servile towards the EU) or else you can mount some sort of legal challenge that imposing EU citizenship on you is a violation of your rights but these rights would have to come from outside our own constitution (ideally the ECHR which the EU is subject to) as there is a blank cheque to the EU in article 29 of Bunreacht. This "blank cheque" however is to be tested in the Ian Bailey case in the next few months.


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  • #7
    BetterLisbon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭BetterLisbon


    I wonder who you would write to to renounce your EU citizenship anyway? To renounce your Irish citizenship you write a letter to the Minister for Justice. Maybe a letter to the Justice commissioner? Chair of the EcoJus?


  • #8
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,840 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    BetterLisbon wrote: »
    It is however possible to be a UK citizen but not an EU citizen...
    Source?


  • #9
    BetterLisbon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭BetterLisbon


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Source?

    Britsh overseas citizens are not EU citizens (e.g. Hong Kong). Typically these are citizens of commonwealth countries and were former british colonies. British citizens from the Isle of Man and Channel Islands have partial EU citizenship as they cannot avail of the free movement of employment and establishment provisions. This is why the UK is outside Schengen.
    Ireland could pass similar legislation.


  • #10
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,840 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    BetterLisbon wrote: »
    Ireland could pass similar legislation.
    I'm not sure what would be achieved by passing legislation to create two-tier citizenship (which is what you're talking about).

    What, in practical terms, would you gain by not being a citizen of the EU?


  • #11
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,058 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    How long until the Dáil is dissolved and we are forced to swear allegiance to the European Union?
    I didn't vote for the current government, and I've never sworn allegiance to Ireland.

    How does either fact relate to a military state databasing information on foreigners?


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  • #12
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    BetterLisbon wrote: »
    Britsh overseas citizens are not EU citizens (e.g. Hong Kong). Typically these are citizens of commonwealth countries and were former british colonies. British citizens from the Isle of Man and Channel Islands have partial EU citizenship as they cannot avail of the free movement of employment and establishment provisions. This is why the UK is outside Schengen.
    Ireland could pass similar legislation.
    Article 20 (1) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union wrote:
    Citizenship of the Union is hereby established. Every person holding the nationality of a Member State shall be a citizen of the Union. Citizenship of the Union shall be additional to and not replace national citizenship.
    The UK exceptions are a result of special provisions of the UK Accession Treaty. Ireland can not unilaterally pass legislation to allow for removing EU citizenship, it must be negotiated with the European Union.

    If you could give up your EU citizenship, you would lose the freedom to move and reside and the freedom of movement to work in the other Member States

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  • #13
    View
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    BetterLisbon wrote: »
    Britsh overseas citizens are not EU citizens (e.g. Hong Kong). Typically these are citizens of commonwealth countries and were former british colonies. British citizens from the Isle of Man and Channel Islands have partial EU citizenship as they cannot avail of the free movement of employment and establishment provisions. This is why the UK is outside Schengen.
    Ireland could pass similar legislation.

    British Overseas citizens are not UK Citizens - they have no right to live in the UK (as standard). Essentially, it is a left-over citizenship category left over from the days of empire. It is a bit like most citizens of the RoI could claim UK citizenship up to the late 60's/early 70's but the number of people with this option has declined over the years as time takes its toll.


  • #14
    Dipsy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭Dipsy


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    I'd like to know how to reject my EU citizenship. I just read an article about how the EU has decided to go ahead with a deal to furnish Israel with personal information of EU citizens. I don't want my information going to Israel, which I believe to be a terrorist state, so I'd like to reject my EU citizenship as I never applied for it in the first place.

    Can John explain how I'd go about doing this? Will it affect my Irish citizenship?

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/1112/1224283152213.html

    That is a brilliant question :cool: Personally I know I am a sovereign woman. I am not an EU citizen, just because they say it does not make it so.
    Gurgle wrote: »
    I didn't vote for the current government, and I've never sworn allegiance to Ireland.

    Me neither, nor did I swear anything to the EU, I do not consent to being governed by criminals.

    To the OP - You just need to remove yourself by writing an affifdavit, get it signed by a commissioner for oaths and send it to the relevant "authorities"

    This site may help: www.freemanireland.ning.com or google Freeman on the land. Best of luck.


  • #15
    View
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    Dipsy wrote: »
    That is a brilliant question :cool: Personally I know I am a sovereign woman. I am not an EU citizen, just because they say it does not make it so.

    If you are not a citizen of the one of the EU member states that is fair enough. No one is claiming that non-EU citizens are actually EU citizens.


  • #16
    Corsendonk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭Corsendonk


    View wrote: »
    If you are not a citizen of the one of the EU member states that is fair enough. No one is claiming that non-EU citizens are actually EU citizens.

    Why is an american(OP) looking to get rid of his "European" citizen?


  • #17
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,472 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    I think the OP wants to have an Irish Passport that has any references to the EU removed.


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