The other side of speeding

AnonymousPrime

OK, safety cameras are here and I guess here to stay. Personally, with my route to work they will inconvenience me, but I suppose by speeding I am breaking the law and can't really complain (and in case of any backlash, I am certainly not complaining).

I am complaining about what I would regard as the root cause of my speeding, which is slow drivers. When I speed on my route to work it is usually to make up time as I have a particularly intolerant employer, and would guess I am not alone in this matter.

The roads of this country were built and are maintained as a service to the people. Each road has a guideline speed, decided by an authority. The penalties for exceeding these guidelines are clear, why is there no penalty for impeding others in their following of the guidelines?

I would finally like to point out that a safe but slow driver will not pass their driving test under current testing criteria.

stevenmu

As annoying as slow drivers are, the speed limit is a maximum limit, not a target which must be reached, and equally not a guideline which other drivers are preventing you reaching.

Slow drivers are incredibly annoying, but if you leave a little earlier you should be able to arrive on time without speeding, and it's significantly better for your stress levels.

PARKHEAD67

stevenmu wrote: »

As annoying as slow drivers are, the speed limit is a maximum limit, not a target which must be reached, and equally not a guideline which other drivers are preventing you reaching.

Slow drivers are incredibly annoying, but if you leave a little earlier you should be able to arrive on time without speeding, and it's significantly better for your stress levels.

On my way to work the other morning some dope was driving at 50Mph. Arctic truck overtook her slowing everyone down and creating a very dangerous situation. Surely more dangerous than someone doing 140kph on the overtaking lane? But speed kills we're told. What a crock of BS.Look at the autobahn and Germanys system in general. Speed doesnt kill.STUPIDITY does.

stevenmu

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

Speed doesnt kill.STUPIDITY does.

Yep, but in the particular situation you mentioned the slow driver wasn't the one who caused the danger, it was the artic driver. The slow driver was a nuiscance and an annoyance, but that doesn't excuse dangerous overtaking (with the possible exception of ES vehicles responding to an emergency).

PARKHEAD67

stevenmu wrote: »

Yep, but in the particular situation you mentioned the slow driver wasn't the one who caused the danger, it was the artic driver. The slow driver was a nuiscance and an annoyance, but that doesn't excuse dangerous overtaking (with the possible exception of ES vehicles responding to an emergency).

True but she was driving at a moronic speed for a motorway.IMO its more dangerous than speeding.The truck was wrong but she shouldnt be let near a motorway.

stevenmu

That is bad, and dangerous, on a motorway alright. Motorways should have a minimum speed limit.

(I'd love a minimum speed on normal roads too, but there'd be too many problems with it)

AugustusMinimus

stevenmu wrote: »

That is bad, and dangerous, on a motorway alright. Motorways should have a minimum speed limit.

(I'd love a minimum speed on normal roads too, but there'd be too many problems with it)

Hard to apply a minimum speed limit on anything but a motorway. Certain turns and sections of road might require you slowing down etc.

Keep up to a reasonable speed on most sections of road is good driving though.


Last week I had to overtake a sunday driver doing 30mph on a national seconadry route. After I overtook him he started to tailgate me at about 65mph. This is Ireland :mad:

heavyballs

AnonymousPrime wrote: »

as a service to the people. Each road has a guideline speed, decided by an authority. The penalties for exceeding these guidelines are clear, why is there no penalty for impeding others in their following of the guidelines?

I would finally like to point out that a safe but slow driver will not pass their driving test under current testing criteria.

there's a difference in what you describe and the speed LIMIT signs,they're not guidelines.
I admit i generally drive slower than most,use the OT lane correctly unlike most
my problem is that although i never drive too slow i'm sick of aholes who presume i should drive at the speed limit or close to it and tailgate
the only reason i drive slow btw is because i have the kids with me pretty much all the time when i drive,havn't had an accident and no peno points

i see undertaking and incorrect lane use combined with speed the main cause of accidents

Armin_Tamzarian

heavyballs wrote: »

i see undertaking and incorrect lane use combined with speed the main cause of accidents

This.

How hard is it to keep to the inside.
Every time I drive from Naas to Dublin I'm in awe at the stupidity of other drivers.
The best you can hope for is that they're in the middle lane.
The inside lane is usually pretty much empty.
If you're too stupid to understand the concept of overtaking lanes then you shouldn't be behind the wheel.
Perhaps what's partly to blame is the fact that the driving test doesn't / didn't involve Motorway / Dual Carriageway driving.

I was coming into Mitchelstown (I think) once on a dual lane stretch of road.
Some bint in a Starlet was sitting out in the overtaking lane doing 45MPH.
I sat behind her for a mile or two, eventually had enough and passed on the inside lane.
Got into Mitchelstown and there was a Garda waiting for me.
She'd phoned up and reported me.
I told him the story and he just let me go.

AnonymousPrime

stevenmu wrote: »

As annoying as slow drivers are, the speed limit is a maximum limit.

It depends on how you look at it.
I see it as the maximum SAFE speed which one can do on a given section of road. Obviously you will need to slow down to complete certain manouvers and for simplicity I am ignoring this.

Given that the speed limit is deemed safe, and society as a whole wants to get to their destination as fast as possible (at 09:00) I see it as a guideline.

stevenmu wrote: »

Yep, but in the particular situation you mentioned the slow driver wasn't the one who caused the danger, it was the artic driver.

Once again, it depends on how you look at it. Granted this is an extreme case given the amount of responsibiliy on the shoulders of an arctic driver, but if a single person is holding up a large group of drivers because of lack of ability, it is not the group of people at fault. In my opinion a person has the right to drive at a reasonable speed

Absurdum

AnonymousPrime wrote: »

When I speed on my route to work it is usually to make up time as I have a particularly intolerant employer, and would guess I am not alone in this matter.

I don't mean to sound patronising but would it be too difficult to leave 3 or 4 minutes early instead?

ardmacha

Each road has a guideline speed, decided by an authority.

There is no such thing. There is a maximum limit, decided by law. There is no suggestion that this is a guideline speed or that it is appropriate to drive at that speed.

This has to be one of the threads started on the most ridiculous premise, even for motors.

Atomic Pineapple

Absurdum wrote: »

I don't mean to sound patronising but would it be too difficult to leave 3 or 4 minutes early instead?

Same thing could be said to slow drivers, would it be too difficult to drive at or near to the stated speed limit when conditions allow?

Absurdum

draffodx wrote: »

Same thing could be said to slow drivers, would it be too difficult to drive at or near to the stated speed limit when conditions allow?

They are not obliged to. You don't need to break the speed limit to pass "slow drivers".

biko

AnonymousPrime wrote: »

Each road has a guideline speed, decided by an authority. The penalties for exceeding these guidelines are clear, why is there no penalty for impeding others in their following of the guidelines

Guidelines? The signs are speed limits, not guidelines.
Now I understand you may be angry if someone is doing 75 on a windy 100 road so you can't pass - but it does not excuse you from speeding to catch up time.
Or 80 on the motorway.

Tbh, thread should be called "Someone is impeding my entitlement"

Atomic Pineapple

Absurdum wrote: »

They are not obliged to. You don't need to break the speed limit to pass "slow drivers".

Thats true, I'm just saying that if the majority of drivers driving on a section of road can drive at the limit safely then there is no reason for someone to drive slower on it in terms of the road condition, weather etc..., it could only be lack of ability which is not a good thing.

biko

Indeed, there could be a lot of reasons for people to drive slower than the limit.
I get frustrated too when stuck behind someone slower, we all do I'm sure.
At the same time I laugh when I see a 100 sign on some winding bog road that you clearly can't go faster than 75/80 on.

corktina

many people arent safe to drive at the speed limit and you need to bear that in mind....and be grateful at least they acknowledge that by driving slow.
I don't mind poeple driving slow but good manners should be employed by allowing people past them ...what does annoy me is the people who sit behind slow drivers and wont overtake or leave room for you to do so...

Atomic Pineapple

The limit goes from 50 km/h to 80 km/h going onto my road back home, which isn't a road, its barely a lane! Sometimes this country just really depresses you!

keithclancy

Sheesh, for a motoring forum theres alot of people on here that seem to think the speed limit is some sort of guardian angel that saves lives etc.

IMO driving at a speed the conditions allow is alot safer than that blindly following the speed limit.

I break the posted speed limit almost every day i'd say, but not by a large amount, i.e. going from 120 - 100 i'd be doing over 100 passing the sign, or going from unrestricted to a 120, i might be doing 160 after passing the sign, I wouldn't just jump on the brakes because the sign says so (someone going much faster might run into the back of you)

I religiously stick to speed limits in cities though as:
1. Alot more hazards, pedestrians, cyclists, mopeds, other cars etc.
2. Speed Cameras.

Mind you if the limits 120 I'll drive at 120 as going at 130/140 will make f* all difference on the time your journey takes.

With regards to that leave 5 minutes earlier lark, in alot of cases rush hour is rush hour, you'll just sit in the traffic queue for that extra 5 minutes

Better off leaving early or leaving late. (Alot of companies have Flexitime to suit this)

stevenmu

I personally suspect that most people who drive far below the limit, simply aren't competent enough to drive at the limit and would be an even bigger danger if they did so. Of course people like this shouldn't be on the roads at all, but since they are it's probably best for everyone if they don't go too fast.

Atomic Pineapple

stevenmu wrote: »

I personally suspect that most people who drive far below the limit, simply aren't competent enough to drive at the limit and would be an even bigger danger if they did so. Of course people like this shouldn't be on the roads at all, but since they are it's probably best for everyone if they don't go too fast.

Thats the point I was trying to make

Again lack of driver education and training would be a root cause.

stephendevlin

There should be points for people who dont use the correct lane and more training for people who dont know how to use them. Speeding is a big factor. Lorry Drivers on country roads on thier mobiles over the white line I see alot. Cars going around corners in towns and going wayyy over the other side of the road onto oncomming traffic. people overtaking parked cars when traffic is coming the other way. Overtaking cyclists when traffic is coming the other way. Small roundabouts can be hazzerdous too people are unsure of them at times. And 9/10 times I see making the mistakes on the roads are not the little boy racers its the guys who just want to own the road. ..Tailing is another nightmare. People up yer arse. What planet are these people on???? People who are caught driving dangerously should be put in a simulated crash like a test dummy.... see how they feel about being in a car crash sfter that.

woody33

I've heard that in Germany, maybe it's on the autobahns, that you are in trouble with the cops if you are going so slowly there is a tail-back behind you. Anyone know for sure?

bazzachazza

There should be points for people who dont use the correct lane and more training for people who dont know how to use them

There is.

There was a topic thread a few months ago about some posters brother who got done one night by the cops. He then tried to justify it by saying he would move over when ever he saw someone coming :rolleyes: not the point of keeping left unless OVERTAKING !

AnonymousPrime

Absurdum wrote: »

I don't mean to sound patronising but would it be too difficult to leave 3 or 4 minutes early instead?

I had a feeling this might come up.
I am not looking for a solution to my particular issue, just pondering why nothing has ever been done about something which I regard as a big problem.

Just look at the guy who was assaulted and subsequently died as a result of a a road rage incident 2 months ago.
This is not just my problem.

biko

AnonymousPrime wrote: »

Just look at the guy who was assaulted and subsequently died as a result of a a road rage incident 2 months ago.

Can you link to this case? I didn't read it.

lintdrummer

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1001/batesr.html

keithclancy

woody33 wrote: »

I've heard that in Germany, maybe it's on the autobahns, that you are in trouble with the cops if you are going so slowly there is a tail-back behind you. Anyone know for sure?

http://www.howtogermany.com/pages/traffic-violations.html

Failure to use right lane Violation Fine (€) Points
Jeopardizing another vehicle in two-way traffic, while being passed, on hilltops, in curves or with insufficient visibility 80 2
Hindering another vehicle on autobahns or highways 80 1

Sofiztikated

stevenmu wrote: »

I personally suspect that most people who drive far below the limit, simply aren't competent enough to drive at the limit and would be an even bigger danger if they did so. Of course people like this shouldn't be on the roads at all, but since they are it's probably best for everyone if they don't go too fast.

draffodx wrote: »

Thats the point I was trying to make

Again lack of driver education and training would be a root cause.

There is also the potential that they are the better driver, and are driving at a speed to suit the conditions, and you are travelling too fast, because you're late. Maybe?

More than likely not though.

rescue16

Ok people simple answer to these comments about slow drivers.

1. When doing you driving lessons you instructor will tell you to keep as close to the speed limit when you have a clear road in front of you if not you WILL be FAILED due to holding up traffic or progress.

2. When a friend of mine was doing his driving test he was doing 40kph in a 50 kph zone there was a island in the middle of the road coming up to a right turn he was driving along when a car decided to overtake him by entering the island so that was ok he went back to the test center and he was told he failed his test and the reson that was marked was progress he asked what it ment and the tester said he was driving to slow on a clear road and provoked the other car to overtake. Now i think this is wrong and it was wrong for the other car to overtake but after he questioned it he was told the tester was write

Atomic Pineapple

Sofiztikated wrote: »

There is also the potential that they are the better driver, and are driving at a speed to suit the conditions, and you are travelling too fast, because you're late. Maybe?

More than likely not though.

My point was when the majority are driving at the limit, say 10 cars are traveling on the road and 9 are traveling at the speed limit safely and 1 isn't, then the reason for that one car going slowly cant be that the conditions dont allow for the speed limit to be reached.

CyberGhost

Why are the authorities so obsessed with speed yet completely neglect and ignore 90% of drivers either not using indicators and or using them incorrectly.

That slows you down a lot too, just remember how many times you had to stop at the roundabout because some asshole is indicating incorrectly.

Not to mention it is dangerous not to use indicators.

Stiffs

If authorities sort the root of the problem first it would change things..

Better driving tests to include all roadways and not a 20min drive around the block..

Akrasia

There is some research out there that suggests that the safest speed to drive your car is at the '85th percentile'

The 85th percentile speed is the speed which 85% of the vehicles are not exceeding. The blue "accumulated frequency" curve shows how at each higher speed point the number of vehicles not exceeding that speed point increases.
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/speedlimits.html

One of the biggest hazards on the roads is where there is a big speed differential between the speed some cars are travelling versus the speed other cars are or want to travel.

If you're driving too fast you're a risk to other drivers, if you are driving too slow, you are also creating a hazardous situation

stephendevlin

CyberGhost wrote: »

Why are the authorities so obsessed with speed yet completely neglect and ignore 90% of drivers either not using indicators and or using them incorrectly.

That slows you down a lot too, just remember how many times you had to stop at the roundabout because some asshole is indicating incorrectly.

Not to mention it is dangerous not to use indicators.

Probably cos cause of death by indicators doesnt make headlines. I hate feckers who dont indicate and think they can just change lanes (even though you are beside them) havent a clue how to use mirrors indicators and look for blind spots.

E39MSport

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

On my way to work the other morning some dope was driving at 50Mph. Arctic truck overtook her slowing everyone down and creating a very dangerous situation. Surely more dangerous than someone doing 140kph on the overtaking lane? But speed kills we're told. What a crock of BS.Look at the autobahn and Germanys system in general. Speed doesnt kill.STUPIDITY does.

We don't have autobahns and in the German system in General you'll have to slow to 30km/h in towns/cities !!

Top Dog

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

On my way to work the other morning some dope was driving at 50Mph. Arctic truck overtook her slowing everyone down and creating a very dangerous situation. Surely more dangerous than someone doing 140kph on the overtaking lane?

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

True but she was driving at a moronic speed for a motorway.IMO its more dangerous than speeding.The truck was wrong but she shouldnt be let near a motorway.

Sorry - I don't get the huge issue in this case at all. So she was doing 50mph, presumably on the inside lane if an artic was able to overtake her. Whats the huge issue? And how on earth is it a very dangerous situation?

I'm not a fan of slower drivers, but if she was in the inside lane the I'd have no issue with her. Sure isn't the minimum speed on a motorway 50km/h or something, which means you can quite often come across Artic's overtaking tractors, thus blocking up the overtaking lane (as most of our motorways only have the 2 lanes :rolleyes:) creating the same situation - outside lane slowing briefly to maybe 55mph. If any driver is paying any attention at all to the road in front of them then its definitely NOT a dangerous situation.

corktina

nothing wrong with doing 80km/h on a motorway if thats what she felt able to do. Its not dangerous, it just annoys people who get held up...

Pkiernan

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

On my way to work the other morning some dope was driving at 50Mph. Arctic truck overtook her slowing everyone down and creating a very dangerous situation. Surely more dangerous than someone doing 140kph on the overtaking lane? But speed kills we're told. What a crock of BS.Look at the autobahn and Germanys system in general. Speed doesnt kill.STUPIDITY does.

Artics and other HGV's are not allowed to exceed 50 mph (80 kph).

Therefore the artic driver was solely at fault for the incident you described.

dr.fuzzenstein

stevenmu wrote: »

As annoying as slow drivers are, the speed limit is a maximum limit, not a target which must be reached, and equally not a guideline which other drivers are preventing you reaching.

Slow drivers are incredibly annoying, but if you leave a little earlier you should be able to arrive on time without speeding, and it's significantly better for your stress levels.

Will you still say that when you're caught in a tailback following some bastard going at 60 km/h in a 100 zone?
No, you will just wish that person would kindly fcuk off and die.
To the whole "It's a limit not a target" brigade:
Someone going 30-40 km/h under the limit is NOT ok.
That person is at best a moron and at worst a danger and if they finally get so badly traumatised by being bullied they get off the road: Good.

keithclancy

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Will you still say that when you're caught in a tailback following some bastard going at 60 km/h in a 100 zone?
No, you will just wish that person would kindly fcuk off and die.
To the whole "It's a limit not a target" brigade:
Someone going 30-40 km/h under the limit is NOT ok.
That person is at best a moron and at worst a danger and if they finally get so badly traumatised by being bullied they get off the road: Good.

If you convey this much emotion on a thread then I wonder what you do on the road

Anan1

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Will you still say that when you're caught in a tailback following some bastard going at 60 km/h in a 100 zone?
No, you will just wish that person would kindly fcuk off and die.
To the whole "It's a limit not a target" brigade:
Someone going 30-40 km/h under the limit is NOT ok.
That person is at best a moron and at worst a danger and if they finally get so badly traumatised by being bullied they get off the road: Good.

It's no good being right if you give yourself a heart attack in the process.

FoxT

drive in the fast lane of an italian motorway at say 5 mph below the speed limit & soon you'll have the car behind you flashing & blowing.

It works pretty well!

Why dont we do it here?

dr.fuzzenstein

keithclancy wrote: »

If you convey this much emotion on a thread then I wonder what you do on the road

I'm pretty OK now (where's me pills?), but used to do 100-200 km a day before the invention of motorways in Ireland and then it used to annoy me quite a bit.
All those who say "ah sure it's not that bad" surely aren't driving for a living or maybe 10 minutes to work and to the woods or the beach on weekends. Or they're lying.
Anyone I know who has to be on the road for a living fears and loathes nothing more than all the morons doing 60 km/h on 100 km/h roads.
It's better now with motorways, etc. and most of those "lucky dip bag drivers licence" eejits are slowly dying out.
So nowadays Ireland is almost ok to drive around in, compared to early to mid 90's when it was hell on a stick.

Boskowski

woody33 wrote: »

I've heard that in Germany, maybe it's on the autobahns, that you are in trouble with the cops if you are going so slowly there is a tail-back behind you. Anyone know for sure?

I can't confirm this.

Being German I made my drivers license in Germany - car license quite some years ago and bike more recently - and the rule for the Autobahn is that any vehicle using it must be capable of going faster than 59 km/h.

Of course that doesn't mean that you have to go at that speed minimum because then a proper congestion would turn everyone into an offender.

Other than that there is a general guideline in place that states that unless local restrictions apply the guideline speed is 130 km/h. Of course that only applies to vehicles allowed to travel at that speed. Many trucks and buses and trailers and mobile home are restricted to 80 km/h or 100 km/h anyway.

Germans would be fairly obedient to the 'Rechtsfahrgebot' especially since you get a fair amount of bullying on the Autobahns by the drivers of so-called performance cars.

Sometimes you would see a sign across the entire side of the motorway giving guidelines for each lane - along the lines of:


80 | 100 | 130

I never heard of a general rule that will award you points if you cause a tailback. If you're driving slow enough to be a hazard you will be getting a talking to for dangerous driving.

Boskowski

rescue16 wrote: »

Ok people simple answer to these comments about slow drivers.

1. When doing you driving lessons you instructor will tell you to keep as close to the speed limit when you have a clear road in front of you if not you WILL be FAILED due to holding up traffic or progress.

2. When a friend of mine was doing his driving test he was doing 40kph in a 50 kph zone there was a island in the middle of the road coming up to a right turn he was driving along when a car decided to overtake him by entering the island so that was ok he went back to the test center and he was told he failed his test and the reson that was marked was progress he asked what it ment and the tester said he was driving to slow on a clear road and provoked the other car to overtake. Now i think this is wrong and it was wrong for the other car to overtake but after he questioned it he was told the tester was write

Thats just nuts. Especially in a town I should be allowed to drive at whatever speed I like within the limits of the ROTR. I mean I could have a fragile load in the boot or terrorists could have strapped a bomb to my accelerator that goes off once I exceed 50 km/h or go below 25 km/h.

Sofiztikated

draffodx wrote: »

My point was when the majority are driving at the limit, say 10 cars are traveling on the road and 9 are traveling at the speed limit safely and 1 isn't, then the reason for that one car going slowly cant be that the conditions dont allow for the speed limit to be reached.

So lets break this down a bit further.

Of those 10 cars.

9 are travelling at 100 kph
1 is travelling at 70kph
Of those 9, how many are ACTUALLY driving safely? I'd put a high percentage of them being slightly outside their safety zone, and just getting away with it by pure luck.

Now I'm not saying we should all slow down, slow drivers really get on my tits. But just because someone is driving at a faster speed than a slow driver does NOT automatically make them a better driver.

NFD100

When I am over in Ireland, I am actually quite shocked and scared by what I see going on the roads. :eek:

When I drive in London, I can be pretty sure, people have read the Highway Code and 99% likely have sat a driving test and passed. People follow the rules and drive to the speed limit and others go over it (that's between them and the police.)

When they get on motorways they know what each lane is for and they know how to join the motorway. Indicators are used all the time and roundabouts don't seem to be a challenge. I never feel scared driving in England.

I come over to Ireland and everything is almost the reverse. I am actually scared of drivers around me. Slow driving, not looking in mirrors. Dangerous overtaking (because of same slow drivers) Not keping behind the white line. Driving with fog lights on (when no fog.) Driving in the right (overtaking) lane of a motorway, when left lane free. I could go on and on.....

I think the only way around this mess is to require most drivers take a test or resit a test. It really is quite shocking.

E39MSport

Disagree with you there. My impression is that it's predominantly an attitude thing here in Ireland. People just couldn't give a flying fcuk.

Mc Love

E39MSport wrote: »

Disagree with you there. My impression is that it's predominantly an attitude thing here in Ireland. People just couldn't give a flying fcuk.

That and the rules of the road arent policed.

But its true - its such a pleasure driving in the UK compared to driving here.