Easy Calving Beef Breed

SafeSurfer

What would be considered the easiest calving beef breed?

massey woman

Angus

bogman_bass

Shortest thread ever

massey woman

Same as the calf short and sweet!
No need to say anymore
No competition for ease of calving
live calf easy birth on mum
up and sucking right away
may not put down the scales in 20 months but easier fed and finished and mum back in calf again
If a heifer both suckler and butcher customers on day of sale
so in answer to your question again
AA

Shauny2010

you could use one of the traditional breeds like Shorthorn or Hereford also

pakalasa

Why do you ask, by the way?
Hereford and Saler are also easy calving!

UPCS

Parthenaise!

Tipp Man

I always find it a bit strange that Irish suckler farmers seem to have completly turned their backs on Angus and Hereford. As mentioned above there are many good attributes to both these breeds, many of which are forgotten or not promoted by Teagasc or Farmers Journal.

Personally if i was ever to go down the suckler route i would seriously consider going down the Hereford cow with a continental bull option (in the past we have bought some Simms off Hereford cows, excellent cattle), I wouldn't be making the export market but I bet when you consider all things it could be as profitable as any breed

anybody here using Angus or Hereford as the basis for their suckler herd?

reilig

Tipp Man wrote: »

I always find it a bit strange that Irish suckler farmers seem to have completly turned their backs on Angus and Hereford. As mentioned above there are many good attributes to both these breeds, many of which are forgotten or not promoted by Teagasc or Farmers Journal.

Personally if i was ever to go down the suckler route i would seriously consider going down the Hereford cow with a continental bull option (in the past we have bought some Simms off Hereford cows, excellent cattle), I wouldn't be making the export market but I bet when you consider all things it could be as profitable as any breed

anybody here using Angus or Hereford as the basis for their suckler herd?

There's only 1 answer to that. Put a day old angus or hereford bull calf along side a day old limousin or chaorlais bull. Feed them and their mothers grass for 8 months, and them creep ration for 8 months. Bring both to a weinling sale, both having cost the same amount to get to that point. You will notice 2 things:

1. Your limousin or chaorlais calf will be much heavier than your angus or hereford. and

2. At the sale, your limousin or chaorlais calf will make a significant amount more than your angus or hereford calf.

Its a buyers market and you have to produce the breed of animal that you will get the most money for. We produced angus for years and even slaughtered through the producer group. The best profit for angus can be made through finishing them for slaughter - but it is still a very small profit in comparison to the profit that you can make by selling an 8 month old weinling for export.

Tipp Man

reilig wrote: »

There's only 1 answer to that. Put a day old angus or hereford bull calf along side a day old limousin or chaorlais bull. Feed them and their mothers grass for 8 months, and them creep ration for 8 months. Bring both to a weinling sale, both having cost the same amount to get to that point. You will notice 2 things:

1. Your limousin or chaorlais calf will be much heavier than your angus or hereford. and

2. At the sale, your limousin or chaorlais calf will make a significant amount more than your angus or hereford calf.

Its a buyers market and you have to produce the breed of animal that you will get the most money for. We produced angus for years and even slaughtered through the producer group. The best profit for angus can be made through finishing them for slaughter - but it is still a very small profit in comparison to the profit that you can make by selling an 8 month old weinling for export.

I agree with what you say but if we take into account the extra feed a large continental cow needs alongs with the damage they do in wet weather, lower conception rates and higher replacement rates (debatable), the extra milk of the hereford etc. Taking it all into account is the gap that big? In your above comparision you talk about feeding them the same for 8 months, I'm more talking about having the Hereford/Angus under a different system. For instance little/no creep feed. use a lower cost base against your lower income

On a slightly different not as a consumer i would say give me a angus or hereford steak any day of the week over a continental. Obviously the europeans think differently

reilig

I have had enough angus cows to know that they eat every bit as much as a limousin cow and why they might not be as tall as a limousin cow, they are usually lower and heavier and do as much damage as any other cow in wet weather. I've never heard of higher conception rates in angus or hereford cows. Was there a study on it? What ever about herefords having lots of milk, Angus cows are quite often poor milkers and on average with any limousin or chaorlais for milk production. I find with herefords, that if the cow is a good milker, she will have a bony calf - she will do a good job on him while he is sucking, but when weaned, he can tend to be all milk rather than muscle.

Your "different system" is 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other. If you don't feed creep, your weinlings will be poor sellers no matter what breed they are, but most people that feed meel usually find that they are well compensated for the cost of the meal by the weinling sale price or if you decide to keep the weinling and finish him on grass, it can take 24 to 36 months. Would it not be better to get €700 for an 8 month weinling that was fed on grass and €50 worth of ration than €1100 for a 30 month old bullock that was finished on grass only, tested 3 times, dosed 6 times, maybe had a vet with a €75 call out charge.

I'm not saying that you are wrong, I'm just saying that it is not the system that I use because from personal experience, I find that it is not profitable, and I'm giving you the reasons why I found it not to be profitable. I'm trying to breed to what buyers want. 2 weeks ago, I sold 6 weinling Belgian blue heifers. All born in March and April and all off angus and black limousin cows. They weighed 250kg to 320kg and made from €750 to €870. I calculated that they ate €90 worth of ration each. They were tested twice, dosed twice and all were bred off an easy calving BB Bull and I had to assist none with calving.

I personally feel that i cannot have my cake and eat it - I can have an easy calving breed, but i won't have as much profit from them but careful management of feeding ensures that with a non easy calving breed, I have a minimum amount of assistance to give to cows at calving time.

But again, its horses for courses.

Tipp Man wrote: »

I agree with what you say but if we take into account the extra feed a large continental cow needs alongs with the damage they do in wet weather, lower conception rates and higher replacement rates (debatable), the extra milk of the hereford etc. Taking it all into account is the gap that big? In your above comparision you talk about feeding them the same for 8 months, I'm more talking about having the Hereford/Angus under a different system. For instance little/no creep feed. use a lower cost base against your lower income

On a slightly different not as a consumer i would say give me a angus or hereford steak any day of the week over a continental. Obviously the europeans think differently

Tipp Man

reilig wrote: »

I have had enough angus cows to know that they eat every bit as much as a limousin cow and why they might not be as tall as a limousin cow, they are usually lower and heavier and do as much damage as any other cow in wet weather. I've never heard of higher conception rates in angus or hereford cows. Was there a study on it? What ever about herefords having lots of milk, Angus cows are quite often poor milkers and on average with any limousin or chaorlais for milk production. I find with herefords, that if the cow is a good milker, she will have a bony calf - she will do a good job on him while he is sucking, but when weaned, he can tend to be all milk rather than muscle.

Your "different system" is 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other. If you don't feed creep, your weinlings will be poor sellers no matter what breed they are, but most people that feed meel usually find that they are well compensated for the cost of the meal by the weinling sale price or if you decide to keep the weinling and finish him on grass, it can take 24 to 36 months. Would it not be better to get €700 for an 8 month weinling that was fed on grass and €50 worth of ration than €1100 for a 30 month old bullock that was finished on grass only, tested 3 times, dosed 6 times, maybe had a vet with a €75 call out charge.

I'm not saying that you are wrong, I'm just saying that it is not the system that I use because from personal experience, I find that it is not profitable, and I'm giving you the reasons why I found it not to be profitable. I'm trying to breed to what buyers want. 2 weeks ago, I sold 6 weinling Belgian blue heifers. All born in March and April and all off angus and black limousin cows. They weighed 250kg to 320kg and made from €750 to €870. I calculated that they ate €90 worth of ration each. They were tested twice, dosed twice and all were bred off an easy calving BB Bull and I had to assist none with calving.

I personally feel that i cannot have my cake and eat it - I can have an easy calving breed, but i won't have as much profit from them but careful management of feeding ensures that with a non easy calving breed, I have a minimum amount of assistance to give to cows at calving time.

But again, its horses for courses.

Hard to argue with any of what you say especially a man talking from experience

your obviously doing well in your system and i'm only talking hypothetically. I suppose in some ways i just think its a shame that there is very little place in the market for good quality Angus and Herefords, particularly Herefords, at least there is the Angus bonus to be got which will ensure that they will remain a reasonably popular breed.

reilig

Lets ask the question here.

Is any farmer on here using Angus or Hereford in their beef herd?? Are you making a profit out of it or are you using these breeds out of convenience? (Easy calving)

There are a few people using Angus around here still. But they are very obvious calves at the mart - not achieving huge prices ( most of them are the lowest priced animals in the mart). Are these people turning a profit?? Something tells me that they are digging into their SFP. (I honestly don't know)

And of course, a lot of us still use Angus on heifers to be sure that the first calf comes with ease.

Maybe someone with more experience will comment on the above and give another perspective??

Tipp Man wrote: »

Hard to argue with any of what you say especially a man talking from experience

your obviously doing well in your system and i'm only talking hypothetically. I suppose in some ways i just think its a shame that there is very little place in the market for good quality Angus and Herefords, particularly Herefords, at least there is the Angus bonus to be got which will ensure that they will remain a reasonably popular breed.

Shauny2010

Isn't there a share of farmers using hereford or hereford cross cows for suckling?
I have a share of them and find the calves from these cows better than a lot of the Continental cows.
When I did the cert in agriculture we were taught to use 1/4 friesen 1/4 British and 1/2 Continental in the cows. The best way to achieve this was by crossing a wh heifer cow from a dairy herd with the Continental of your choice.

blue5000

reilig wrote: »

Lets ask the question here.

Is any farmer on here using Angus or Hereford in their beef herd?? Are you making a profit out of it or are you using these breeds out of convenience? (Easy calving)

There are a few people using Angus around here still. But they are very obvious calves at the mart - not achieving huge prices ( most of them are the lowest priced animals in the mart). Are these people turning a profit?? Something tells me that they are digging into their SFP. (I honestly don't know)

And of course, a lot of us still use Angus on heifers to be sure that the first calf comes with ease.


Maybe someone with more experience will comment on the above and give another perspective??

Hi Relig and Tippman, I bought an angus bull to run with my suckler herd in 07. Main reason was to have angus x suckler cows and secondly to have easy calving as I wasn't farming fulltime back then.

Yes I admit I'm not getting huge prices for bull weanlings but I'd love to see the real cost of producing 1100 euro BB weanlings.
I calve all mine at grass, begin around mid-march, started creep in Sept, use a fraction of the fertiliser that I was using 10yrs ago (in dairying then). I haven't all the figures yet, but I reckon my variable costs per cow will be around the 250e mark.

This year I bought a blonde bull to use as a terminal sire on AA x heifers which produced their first bunch of calves this spring, (none sold yet). Will keep you posted.

I agree it is six of one and half a dozen of the other, every farm is different, I reckon the angus X cows will suit my farm better than continental X cows. I agree also, and in my experience the best way to make money from AA cattle is to slaughter them, you don't really get paid for them in the mart.

Bizzum

A lot of shrewd advice and observations here.
AA are not for me or our set-up, though there are two AAX cows there.
I think in order to make money from Angus you would need to be producing for the AA scheme, or the Hereford prime scheme, in the case of Herefords.
Incidently, the shapiest calf we have this year is from an AAX cow (Ex BBX cow) by an AI Lim.

reilig

blue5000 wrote: »

Hi Relig and Tippman, I bought an angus bull to run with my suckler herd in 07. Main reason was to have angus x suckler cows and secondly to have easy calving as I wasn't farming fulltime back then.

Yes I admit I'm not getting huge prices for bull weanlings but I'd love to see the real cost of producing 1100 euro BB weanlings.
I calve all mine at grass, begin around mid-march, started creep in Sept, use a fraction of the fertiliser that I was using 10yrs ago (in dairying then). I haven't all the figures yet, but I reckon my variable costs per cow will be around the 250e mark.

This year I bought a blonde bull to use as a terminal sire on AA x heifers which produced their first bunch of calves this spring, (none sold yet). Will keep you posted.

I agree it is six of one and half a dozen of the other, every farm is different, I reckon the angus X cows will suit my farm better than continental X cows. I agree also, and in my experience the best way to make money from AA cattle is to slaughter them, you don't really get paid for them in the mart.

What sort of buying do you expect for blond calves off AAx cows?? Are they very dark calves?? What's the muscle like?? Do you intend to sell them as weinlings or keep them for finishing?? Will exporters buy them??

I agree with with what you say about finishing and slaughtering AA. But as I said in an earlier post, you will find that you have to keep an aa for 25 to 30 months in order to finish them (without the assistance of ration or nuts) and for the extra money the animal makes in comparison to a continental weinling, there are serious questions about the profitability of it.

The cost of producting an €1100 weinling is not profitable. 1 in 50 bb calves will have abnormal growth spurts and will end up being huge and making an exceptional prices. But you cannot bank on these prices with spring calves. You can achieve the €1100 with a september or october calf if you are selling him the following october at 12 months old, but you will need to have him eating meal by early january in the creep. To be honest, I have don this and its not profitable - in fact you are relying on good health of the animal and reasonably cheap ration.

There is a lot more money to be made out of the March or april born BB bull or heifer. They can be let straight out to grass, allowed to forward feed on grass through a creep gate and fed €50 to €100 worth of meal in the last 3 months of their time on your farm. One TB test. Little or no vet bills because they are healthy outside and they cost no more to keep than any other breed because they can be bred of AAX cows and easy calving BB Bulls and a proper feed management system for the cows for the 3 months pre calving will mean that you will have to give minimum assistance at calving time (no more than any other breed)

I think that there is a misconception of BB breeding. People are thinking about double muscled calves and vet assisted calvings as well as the cost of keeping big cows. None of these are the case. But on the other side, this fear of breeding BB's means that there is a scarcity of them in the country and those that breed them can comand prices well above the average price for other continental breeds (€2.50 to €3.20 per KG (live weight) were the prices that I got for my BB calves this year. Heifers were around the same prices as bulls and my best heifer made €3.20 per kg)

Average price for my ChX weinlings (bulls and heifers) was €1.99 per kg (according to my mart statement). The BB's cost no more to keep than the CHX and with the AI bulls that I'm using, I have far less assisted calvings with the BB than with stock CH Bull.

Pat the lad

Have to agree with Reilig. I seen my father breed cattle out of AA ,Hereford, shorthorn etc cross bred cows. He'd have ok calves, but onced weaned they would fall back alot - they totally relied on milk for the their feed/thrive. He'd keep these calves until 1 1/2 + selling them for between €600-800 euro - after housing & feeding them for 2 winters & 2 summers. Since I have taken over the farm, I have culled those type of cows (over time). I how have 3/4 & pure bred Limo's & Simmental cows and some Blondes - and a few crosses of the breeds i.e. BlondexLimo/Sim, LimoxSim etc(and looking into Parthenaise at the moment). I use mainly AI for the cows with a sweeper Limo bull used for repeat cows & heifiers. I use easy calving BB bulls(yes the do exist- all autumn calves are BB - had to help 2 calve - hadn't to put ropes on for one -cow was near a wall- they other was a lazy so in so - no hassle pulling it) on the 3/4 bred cows- selected cows are given the same bred (mostly)sire AI bull's for replacements.
Now these continental cows have alot less milk than the cows my father had, but the calves are far better both quality & weights gained. The autumn calves are sold at 10-12 months at 350-450 kgs for between €750-1050, with March/April calves sold at 7-8 months at 250-350kgs for €750-900 -(am thinking of switching to all spring calving - to reduce costs i.e. housing, feed etc). Autumn born calves get about €150-200 of meal each with spring getting less than €100 of meal each. Thats it. I think if I had Hereford,AA type weanlings, these would eat more meal to have them at the same weights - and they would make significiantly less money in the sale ring??? I think even if they were heavier or even eat the same amount of meal - they BB/Limo/Sim/Ch weanlings will make more money 1) because the are more musclely and appeal more to the eye (maybe not to everyone, but definitely to the lads paying top bucks - Shippers/Finishers etc.
2) I think this what the type of animal market wants/looking for - better meat:bone ratio???
3) I think there easier to finish - modern breeds are more efficient in converting grass,milk,meal into meat/muscle than the more traditional breeds.
Thats why I have invested in the use of AI, invested in good blood lines for cows and reseeding grass land. I think genentics,fresh grass daily and a little meal can produce quality cattle/weanlings at a reasonable cost. Definately milk is a bonus but it's now a show stopper in producing quality weanling stock!!!
I'm trying to produce the best stock I can - because quality will always demand the best prices i.e in slump still get top prices available and in peak you get peak prices.
Maybe I'm mad:D, but thats the route I'm taking at the moment anyway.

LivInt20

Pat the lad wrote: »

Have to agree with Reilig. I seen my father breed cattle out of AA ,Hereford, shorthorn etc cross bred cows. He'd have ok calves, but onced weaned they would fall back alot - they totally relied on milk for the their feed/thrive. He'd keep these calves until 1 1/2 + selling them for between €600-800 euro - after housing & feeding them for 2 winters & 2 summers. Since I have taken over the farm, I have culled those type of cows (over time). I how have 3/4 & pure bred Limo's & Simmental cows and some Blondes - and a few crosses of the breeds i.e. BlondexLimo/Sim, LimoxSim etc(and looking into Parthenaise at the moment). I use mainly AI for the cows with a sweeper Limo bull used for repeat cows & heifiers. I use easy calving BB bulls(yes the do exist- all autumn calves are BB - had to help 2 calve - hadn't to put ropes on for one -cow was near a wall- they other was a lazy so in so - no hassle pulling it) on the 3/4 bred cows- selected cows are given the same bred (mostly)sire AI bull's for replacements.
Now these continental cows have alot less milk than the cows my father had, but the calves are far better both quality & weights gained. The autumn calves are sold at 10-12 months at 350-450 kgs for between €750-1050, with March/April calves sold at 7-8 months at 250-350kgs for €750-900 -(am thinking of switching to all spring calving - to reduce costs i.e. housing, feed etc). Autumn born calves get about €150-200 of meal each with spring getting less than €100 of meal each. Thats it. I think if I had Hereford,AA type weanlings, these would eat more meal to have them at the same weights - and they would make significiantly less money in the sale ring??? I think even if they were heavier or even eat the same amount of meal - they BB/Limo/Sim/Ch weanlings will make more money 1) because the are more musclely and appeal more to the eye (maybe not to everyone, but definitely to the lads paying top bucks - Shippers/Finishers etc.
2) I think this what the type of animal market wants/looking for - better meat:bone ratio???
3) I think there easier to finish - modern breeds are more efficient in converting grass,milk,meal into meat/muscle than the more traditional breeds.
Thats why I have invested in the use of AI, invested in good blood lines for cows and reseeding grass land. I think genentics,fresh grass daily and a little meal can produce quality cattle/weanlings at a reasonable cost. Definately milk is a bonus but it's now a show stopper in producing quality weanling stock!!!
I'm trying to produce the best stock I can - because quality will always demand the best prices i.e in slump still get top prices available and in peak you get peak prices.
Maybe I'm mad:D, but thats the route I'm taking at the moment anyway.

Good post.

Can I ask you, do you think you will save much by switching to Spring calving.

My thinking is:
let's say it costs €500 to feed a suckler cow for the year.

1. Sell autumn born weanling for €850 - €900 - profit €350 - €400
2. Sell Spring weanlings €650 - profit €150

Anybody any thoughts??

haybob

Did some here say something negative about the price of shorthorn heifers because I saw heifers straight of the cow selling for between €500 and €600 in Ennistymon and Kilfeneora marts not a lot wrong with that considering the seller didn't have to winter em or feed em nuts but in fairness shorthorn bulls aren't great sellers.

The majority of my heard are Hereford friesian crosses the have the hardyness of the whitheads and milk producing power of the friesans and rare great claves the cross well with limousines but not great with the Angus I never use AI but I have good bulls which in the long and the short of it are just as expensive as AI.

Just to address the comment about weanling loosing condition after being waned of course the will lose a nice bit of condition in the short term but with good silage and Paul & Vincent they will come on after a few weeks.

I wouldn’t go near the Belgium Blues, fair play to ye lads that do it’s not for me, might buy a few BB to fatten but no way for breeding stock

tismesoitis

LivInt20 wrote: »

Good post.

Can I ask you, do you think you will save much by switching to Spring calving.

My thinking is:
let's say it costs €500 to feed a suckler cow for the year.

1. Sell autumn born weanling for €850 - €900 - profit €350 - €400
2. Sell Spring weanlings €650 - profit €150

Anybody any thoughts??

we considering going mainly if not all autumn calving for more than one reason 1.easier to catch for AI 2.more money for the calves 3.we can carry a higher stocking rate because for the bulk of the grazing year most of cows will b dry and on very bare grazing!

Don Juan DeMagoo

On our farm we have specialized in pedigree Charolais and would have a lot of commercial cattle, previous generations specialized in Angus winning lots of shows in the rds in the 1930's and 40's, but that day has gone for us.

What we have produced are some fine stock and more importantly they consistently produce good quality stock.

Our motto is if it ain't able to calf easily and hasn't enough milk, they are gone.

Our main focus is in the mothers side, in our commercial cows each of our cows in the herd would have the following proportions: around Majority Charloais x small bit Saler x small bit Limousine.


What I look for in a cow is slightly large quality frame and square pelvic area, good milkers. We have a very good Charolais stock bull and a teasing vasectomised bull with a bull ring.

Each year, we select the easy calving mature cows and put on a muscled AI Belgian Blue. I find that with the odd exception we have damn all hassle calving, this would also be down to our strict supervision of what the cows get to eat prior to calving. We calf in spring.

As a rule of thumb if a cow has a traumatic calving;
(1) her breeding cycle will be off and thus you might not have a calf every 12 months which is a must
(2) the calf will be stiff/strained needing more attention and actually going back a bit in form.

Our weights for our 8 month old purebred Charolais would be around 400 kilos and 400/450 kilos for our commercials.

Saler: Lovely hardy cattle, easily maintained, very easy calved. BUT does not grade out well in the factory and it crossbred offspring are "not" docile;)

Charolais: I adore these cattle, there is a reason why they are the most used beef cattle in europe! BUT they are late developers so not really the best for weanling sales.

Limousine: Generally have low birth weights, have larger weaning weights then Charolais (usually!) and muscle conformation. BUT I find them mad and thus do not want them around the place, cross breds are fine though.

Belgian Blues: Look like monsters, they are muscly monsters. We only breed them for the weanling market. We NEVER keep any of these for replacement heifers. Honest to god they are not worth it, she may look grand but if you keep a few of them you will find your vets bill adding up.

Blondes: are lovely on the eye, lovely shaped crossbred calves. But are not that popular anymore as their fat looks yellowish (which is only superficial), thus supermarkets and butchers tend not to like it.

Aberdeen Angus: Grand easy calving cattle, if your market is just Ireland you are sound. Mainland Europeans are not that interested in them.
However I have found a variation of them called the "Canadian Angus". Have to say I really like what I see and am trying aquire one or two of them.

I know nothing of the Parthenaise cattle, except they give you length and width in your breed. I will keep an eye on them.

I am young enough at this game, so the only advice I can give you is to choose your market. Is it Ireland or Europe and fashion accordingly.

I often have a giggle at the lads in the marts, pointing and starring at the cattles hind quarters, as if the most important part of the animal is its arse:eek:

Sorry rambling again.

pakalasa

Don Juan DeMagoo,
Enjoyed that post. I didnt know about the yellow fat on the BA's.
Hard to beat a good yellow charolais with long hair and solid bone. You should see these coming off the Burren winterage (North Clare) in the spring. Buyers go absolutely mad for them.;)

BeeDI

blue5000 wrote: »

Hi Relig and Tippman, I bought an angus bull to run with my suckler herd in 07. Main reason was to have angus x suckler cows and secondly to have easy calving as I wasn't farming fulltime back then.

Yes I admit I'm not getting huge prices for bull weanlings but I'd love to see the real cost of producing 1100 euro BB weanlings.
I calve all mine at grass, begin around mid-march, started creep in Sept, use a fraction of the fertiliser that I was using 10yrs ago (in dairying then). I haven't all the figures yet, but I reckon my variable costs per cow will be around the 250e mark.

This year I bought a blonde bull to use as a terminal sire on AA x heifers which produced their first bunch of calves this spring, (none sold yet). Will keep you posted.

I agree it is six of one and half a dozen of the other, every farm is different, I reckon the angus X cows will suit my farm better than continental X cows. I agree also, and in my experience the best way to make money from AA cattle is to slaughter them, you don't really get paid for them in the mart.

For 15 years I ran a herd of shorthorn cows. All out wintered. Ran with Charolais bull. I had 50 acres of mountainey, sheltered land. Weaning was done first week October. Calves sold off cow. Cows stayed on home farm (good land) for 6 weeks to mop up any spare grass and after grass. Then they were shifted about mid Nov to the mountain. Never, ever saw a sop of hay or silage except heavy snow and that was rare. Calved march outside. Stayed on mountain with calf and fed a bit of concentrate. All brought home late May. Mountain preserved late May till November.

I made good money in that period as my costs were very, very low. Charolais x Shorthorn, with good yellow colour and fleece were sought after.
But I have seen in past 6 years or so, profit diminishing due market demand for these types of stock diminishing. Now I think you need to have conformation on the calf to make money. BUT ...... the problem is you need facilities. Slats, creep area calving pens, blah, blah.

The return from this system, from a strict accounting perspective certainly does not justify the investment in sheds and so on, BUT having done it, I'm glad, becuse cash in the bank, might just dissapear one of these days.
I

capslock88

LivInt20 wrote: »

Good post.

Can I ask you, do you think you will save much by switching to Spring calving.

My thinking is:
let's say it costs €500 to feed a suckler cow for the year.

1. Sell autumn born weanling for €850 - €900 - profit €350 - €400
2. Sell Spring weanlings €650 - profit €150

Anybody any thoughts??

The spring calving cow will not cost as much as autumn calving cow. Autumn cow needs a good amount of concentrate and quality silage to sustain condition, milk and go back in calf over the winter.

The spring calving cow can be kept on a fairly low plain diet for most of winter and only needs concentrates for the end of it after calving, or maybe not at all if she calves in march/april/may...so you couldn't say both cost €500....i'd defo say spring cow costs €200 less on average..

Shauny2010

capslock88 wrote: »

The spring calving cow will not cost as much as autumn calving cow. .......... costs €200 less on average..

I Agree, to have an autumn calving cow also means that you have to have good sheds IE creep areas for the young calf's to lie away from the slats etc
And these sheds can cost a lot.

Another point that bugs me are the quotes for €850 - €900 euro weanlens
Not true
I ve been to a load of weanling sales this year and there are very very few making that type of money. The average for autumn born is closer to €700 and maybe less when you factor in the heifer price

Don Juan DeMagoo

Shauny2010 wrote: »

Another point that bugs me are the quotes for €850 - €900 euro weanlens
Not true
I ve been to a load of weanling sales this year and there are very very few making that type of money. The average for autumn born is closer to €700 and maybe less when you factor in the heifer price

I agree if the weanlings are of average size, the money is not great. However if they are well shaped there is very good money. Only last week a Belgian Blue calf made 1300 euro and the best sale of a weanling I heard of around here was 1500 euro a month or so back. Around here weanling sales are up on last year. Overall beef prices are good.

But it is all about shape and size, belgian blue weanlings are the bees knees at the moment but you need a good herd of mature cross bred cows to breed them.

This summer was very cost efficient because of the weather and growth.

If you want good prizes you have to put in the research and effort into breeding and adapting for that market.

For example I strongly dislike the belgian blue breed as a whole, due to their abnormal features (they are even banned from breeding them in Sweden), if you let pure breed Belgian blues out in the wild they probably would not survive. If you examine a purebred belgian blue cow you will see their vagina is recessed back further back up into the cow, making it hard for bulls to serve them. I like to call them man made Frankenstein cattle.

But despite this, that is what the market wants and so we selectively breed them off our commercial cows. I have a neighbour who breeds them off his purebred Limousines :eek:. (Sacrilegious I say;))

But if you bring a group of simmental, hereford, shorthorn, angus, limousine or charolais calves and put them in a pen beside these little belgian blue monsters that many people are breeding now, unless your calves are exceptional they won't do very well.

I personally would stop breeding them in a heartbeat only for they are desired and very profitable.

Again I really need to emphasis to you that you need very easy calved mature cows otherwise in my mind it is just cruelty.

I hope this is of some insight.

Don Juan DeMagoo

Right i found out who has these canadian angus cattle I was on about on an earlier post.

None other than Mr O'Leary from Ryanair has a farm in Westmeath and he specializes in them. Was talking to a man today who was there and they are the same size as my Charolais (big) and the are very muscly.....

Sounds very promising so far, but there is a catch as always. They are hard calved. So much that some people are crossing them with Irish Angus to get them to calf easier (that's going backwards lads;))

Anyhow after those reports I have lost my interest in purchasing some. But Mr O'Leary is having a sale some time in the future on his farm, the date escapes me. So I might just pop by to see them in person and judge them for myself, have a gander at how many Caesarean scars I see on the cows.

Was at an bull promotion on a farm in the south a while back, were they stood there promoting the "easy" calving virtues of some of their new Belgian Blue bulls:D:eek.
They showed us the new calves and some of the mothers. As soon as I saw that many cows missing I of course grew concerned:rolleyes:
So I peeked into the shed where all the cattle were calling from..... Would you look at that, there were the missing cows with fresh scars. I being the messer as always, asked the AI spokesman how many Caesareans did they have for these super calves. Their responses were less than direct, but amusing as they want on a chat for five minutes in a hope to induce a coma.

blue5000

Hey Don juandemagoo,

If you find a link for Micheal O'leary sale will you post it up here. I find BBx Fr cows make pretty good mothers, then when crossed with AA bull I get a nice calf. A bit like the blue grey shorthorn from years back.

AFAIK blues are descended from shorthorn cattle with the double muscle gene. The Belgians exploited the double muscle because meat was scarce after ww2. The rest of us must have panicked when one of these 'freak' shorthorn double muscled calves were born, hit over the head / shot it and said nothing.

bbam

blue5000 wrote: »

The Belgians exploited the double muscle because meat was scarce after ww2. The rest of us must have panicked when one of these 'freak' shorthorn double muscled calves were born, hit over the head / shot it and said nothing.

Funny cos it's probably true :rolleyes:

Don Juan DeMagoo

blue5000 wrote: »

If you find a link for Micheal O'leary sale will you post it up here. I find BBx

Will do

AFAIK blues are descended from shorthorn cattle with the double muscle gene. The Belgians exploited the double muscle because meat was scarce after ww2. The rest of us must have panicked when one of these 'freak' shorthorn double muscled calves were born, hit over the head / shot it and said nothing.

Wow never knew that thanks:eek:

I have been told the best mothers for these BB crossbred calves are British Friesian cows, but the British Friesian cows are not in great supply now. Also as I am big into genetics (personal hobby), I do not think they have any good 2 generation possibilities, but I am not certain of this.

Thanks agian for the info I never actually delved deep into Belgian Blue origins (snobby I guess:rolleyes:).