UK Retailers Threaten to Ban Steam

PogMoThoin

The world's biggest digital distribution platform for games is under attack.
MCV understands that key retailers will drop titles that integrate the popular Steam service as fears mount that the service has a ‘monopoly’ on the download market.
Insiders say Steam, run by US studio Valve, serves a massive 80 per cent of the PC download sector. And retailers preparing their own rival platforms don’t want that share to grow any more.
Some of the biggest PC games – such as Call of Duty and Fallout – use Steam. But retailers are concerned that selling games with the tech built-in pushes users towards only buying games via Valve going forward.
At least two major retailers will demand that publishers remove Steam from their games – or they will not sell them in any form.
“If we have a digital service, then I don’t want to start selling a rival in-store,” said the digital boss at one of the biggest UK games retailers.
“Publishers are creating a monster – we are telling suppliers to stop using Steam in their games.”

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/41746/Retail-threatens-Steam-ban

I'm not surprised by this at all, its 2 years since I bought a game on disk

Varik

PogMoThoin wrote: »

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/41746/Retail-threatens-Steam-ban

I'm not surprised by this at all, its 2 years since I bought a game on disk

They probably just need to use the PC shelf for something else and that's why they're doing this.

dreamers75

I like steam but hate the pricing structure.

For Steam :But steams steamworks which helps devs get their game working on steam is quite good. From the buddy system and updates (ha) it does work.

Shops wont invest time in creating something similiar and will expect development teams to make it all happen. so could be a bit of s stupid thing to do.

Against Steam: If Game matches it instore prices with online, yeah good luck steam. Res Evil 5 is €7.99 in game in Liffey valley now (2 for 15). €30 on steam

tman

Heh, funny that they wait until AFTER Black Ops launches before they start making threats...
If they had any cajones at all, they would have done this months ago.

Jumpy

Lol.

They do this and then Steam gets 90% of the market.

Go ahead suckas.

tman

Aye, seems extremely silly now that I think about it... They're just pushing more people towards Steam and giving them some free advertising to boot

grizzly

Why do steam have a monopoly in the first place? I think it's because they have made all the right moves at building the best online store possible. Retailers should concentrate on increasing their own online presence – surly it's the only way the majority of people will buy PC games in the future?

Agricola

Im pro Steam too but Id never buy a new game from it. The fact that almost every new release resolutely holds onto its 49.99 price tag is beyond a joke. Whats the idea behind a digitally distributed game having the same price tag as a store displayed box copy!? I bought Mafia 2 on release day from Amazon for less than €30 delivered. Compare that to 50 quid on Steam!

Cant beat it for cheap older games, dlc, updates etc though. Screw the retailers. The PC games shelf in most stores is a joke these days. They asked for this.

funky penguin

I don't use steam, but I would imagine the important point here is that the retailers have threatened to pull ALL platforms, not just PC. It'll be interesting to see what happenes with it anyway.

These days I use stores to scope out cheap ass 2nd hand games, or do some trade-ins. Amazon and play are where I buy my new releases.

T17cH

The game shops make a fortune selling second hand games that developers never see a cent from maybe they should offer developers a share as a enticement its really there biggest advantage over steam considering whats been charged for some 2nd hand games.

cherryghost

It's ironic to REMOVE games from their shelves in order to preserve their business

Kiith

cherryghost wrote: »

It's moronic to REMOVE games from their shelves in order to preserve their business

Fixed your post :P

Fnz

If this ban happens, I wonder if they'll come up with excuses to stock the biggest Steam games. Will they really refuse to stock Half Life: Episode 3 on PC?

Retailers are in a really awkward position - nobody likes the idea of providing a competing service to their customers.

PogMoThoin

Fnz wrote: »

If this ban happens, I wonder if they'll come up with excuses to stock the biggest Steam games. Will they really refuse to stock Half Life: Episode 3 on PC?

Retailers are in a really awkward position - nobody likes the idea of providing a competing service to their customers.

You know something we don't? :eek:

Retr0gamer

Don't really care. Only ever buy in steam sales. Get all my boxed copies from online retailers which are half the price of retail stores and have better stock.

Cuddlesworth

Agricola wrote: »

Im pro Steam too but Id never buy a new game from it. The fact that almost every new release resolutely holds onto its 49.99 price tag is beyond a joke. Whats the idea behind a digitally distributed game having the same price tag as a store displayed box copy!? I bought Mafia 2 on release day from Amazon for less than €30 delivered. Compare that to 50 quid on Steam!

Cant beat it for cheap older games, dlc, updates etc though. Screw the retailers. The PC games shelf in most stores is a joke these days. They asked for this.

Publishers say what price Steam have to sell at, in each country. Publishers still sell most of their games to big name retail chains. Have you not considered that their pricing might in influenced by this market relationship. They only became exspensive when they got big enough to be a threat.

Overheal

Brick and Mortar shops sell a dozen relevant PC titles at a time? Another 50 or so that are in the bargain box that belong in your kids playroom? All they've done over the last 10 years is relegate PC sales into a dusty corner at the back of the store. Karma's a bitch, right. Just get rid of the Token PC shelf already: this is basically what this threat amounts to.

Kinetic^

Last game I bought in store was GTA4, everything since then has been mostly through steam or via online retailers for any console games. While it's great to have a store there for launch events, the bricks & mortar stores are past their sell by date. The next gen of consoles is a few years away yet, when it does arrive I can see them distributing the majority of their games via the internetz.

fuzztone

PogMoThoin wrote: »

I'm not surprised by this at all, its 2 years since I bought a game on disk

I really think they are missing an opportunity here. So far this month I've bought 2 PC games from the Game.co.uk download store (Black Ops and Civ V). The reasons I bought them from there were because (a) their prices were cheaper than Steam and (b) I was able to add the serials I was emailed into Steam. Game did not have to pay for any shelf space for my serial, nor did they have to pay for the bandwidth used to download the game as I did that through Steam. Looks like a win-win situation to me.

VenomIreland

GAME still get money from the sale of a Steamworks game, right?

Why the eff would they stop selling them then? Is it they themselves want to monopolise the games download market like STEAM is doing or like what iTunes is doing with the music downloads market?

Cuddlesworth

VenomIreland wrote: »

GAME still get money from the sale of a Steamworks game, right?

Why the eff would they stop selling them then? Is it they themselves want to monopolise the games download market like STEAM is doing or like what iTunes is doing with the music downloads market?

Because Sony and Microsoft are eventually going to end up selling most of the games online through downloads on their own internal networks. Which means the only online market left is the PC. Which they have been politely ignoring for the last few years.

So we know they are at their peak right now, with the most power right now. Time to start making demands now so they don't end up going bankrupt in 5 years time when store game sales heavily decline and Steam, Microsoft and Sony clean up.

Venom

I think the whole refusing to carry a title that is also sold via steam is gonna turn out to be very bad for brick and mortar stores in the short run never mind long term.

Fnz

PogMoThoin wrote: »

You know something we don't? :eek:

Unfortunately, no. I know nothing... other than the order in which titles will be released

- Left 4 Dead 3
- Portal 3
- Left 4 Dead 4 Ever
- Diablo 3
- Portal: Dimensions
- WoW 2
- Team Fortress 3
- L4D (the reboot)
- Portal 4
- Duke Nukem: Forever & Ever
- Diablo 4
- Half Life: Episode 3

Magill

Fnz wrote: »

Unfortunately, no. I know nothing... other than the order in which titles will be released

- Left 4 Dead 3
- Portal 3
- Left 4 Dead 4 Ever
- Diablo 3
- Portal: Dimensions
- WoW 2
- Team Fortress 3
- L4D (the reboot)
- Portal 4
- Duke Nukem: Forever & Ever
- Diablo 4
- Half Life: Episode 3

haha, idd !

I seriously dont get why valve are so slow ! Activision would be on Episode 10 by now ! Milking that cash cow for everything shes got.

Overheal

Magill wrote: »

haha, idd !

I seriously dont get why valve are so slow ! Activision would be on Episode 10 by now ! Milking that cash cow for everything shes got.

Thats why Im glad valve is the way it is.

While it's great to have a store there for launch events, the bricks & mortar stores are past their sell by date.

And look at the releases, when was the last AAA title that didnt release at the same time digitally as it did in stores? It's a novelty. And a lot of stores are managing to botch theirs; probably pissed off at having a midnight opening for 3 pre-orders:

http://consumerist.com/2010/11/sorry-best-buy-store-changed-their-minds-no-kinect-for-you-at-midnight.html

And ok, that was Kinect and the guy had to live out in the Goonies but you get the idea.

I agree with your assertion though: looking at appstores, wii store, xbox arcade - thats where games are going next. all digital, unless the next gen is an emphasis on blu ray and stupidly high resolution textures.

WopTittyPop

Overheal wrote: »

I agree with your assertion though: looking at appstores, wii store, xbox arcade - thats where games are going next. all digital

Am I the only person left alive that actually likes to have the physical disc and box in my possession as apposed to just having the game saved on a hard drive?

Apart from that, the only other flaw I can see in the solely digital distribution era, that appears to be coming closer with every new game release, is the fact that you need a credit/debit card to purchase online. I don't know about you guys, but I didn't get my first debit card until I was 15! What about the kids who still buy games with pocket money/allowances? The majority of elderly people still aren't comfortable with buying online, and unless kids start getting debit cards and their pocket money goes digital too, I can't see completely digital distribution ever fully working!

Dave_The_Sheep

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Don't really care. Only ever buy in steam sales. Get all my boxed copies from online retailers which are half the price of retail stores and have better stock.

I do the same, if it's a new game I'll buy it retail (though I rarely buy new games as new these days). Steam for the older titles when they go on sale.

Sure, I don't get to play the games right away - but that just means that I don't have to play the unpatched glitchy versions before they're patched properly.

folan

game stores are basically pawn shops now. If i could have bought Stalker in game/gamestop/HMV, i would have. but they didnt have it! Sure thats not even on PS3?

SeantheMan

I love STEAM,

And Valve are my favourite developers (constantly supporting and updating their titles with free content)

They can do whatever they like as far as I'm concerned, just keep updating L4D(2) , TF2 etc and releasing amazing games

SeantheMan

Magill wrote: »

I seriously dont get why valve are so slow ! Activision would be on Episode 10 by now ! Milking that cash cow for everything shes got.

Because they don't have to be subjected to release dates, they release the title when its finished, and near perfect ...and then they just throw more free updates at it ...oh how I love them

Varik

SeantheMan wrote: »

they release the title when its finished, and near perfect ...and then they just throw more free updates at it ...oh how I love them

Love that about steam and thank god it's coming in some form to ps3, i can't wait for all that free stuff on the my console stuff.

death1234567

I only buy from online retailers or steam anyway. I'm not even sure the retail stores near me stock PC games anymore.

Overheal

WopTittyPop wrote: »

Am I the only person left alive that actually likes to have the physical disc and box in my possession as apposed to just having the game saved on a hard drive?

Apart from that, the only other flaw I can see in the solely digital distribution era, that appears to be coming closer with every new game release, is the fact that you need a credit/debit card to purchase online. I don't know about you guys, but I didn't get my first debit card until I was 15! What about the kids who still buy games with pocket money/allowances? The majority of elderly people still aren't comfortable with buying online, and unless kids start getting debit cards and their pocket money goes digital too, I can't see completely digital distribution ever fully working!

You haven't really adopted the whole 3V thing at all, have you. Young kids do not have problems purchasing digitally and if they did - what's the problem with that? Having a parent in the loop? Have you been to a game store? Kids drag in who with them to the store to buy what?

Boxes are just boxes. You'll see them get phased out soon enough. And by soon enough I figure within 10 years you'll only see them as collector's editions and you won't see standard editions on shelves.

I don't think your hypothesis on the elderly is based on reality either. The Elderly or the Elderly Gamer? One is not the Luddite.

Because they don't have to be subjected to release dates,

Developers in general are subject to them though. Valve is self-funding and self-sufficient and entirely profitable, so it has the patience to send a title into a 5 year production cycle. Other developers simply don't have the luxury, they have kids to feed and bills to pay. So you then get either the Indie developer who can sustain themselves during the development cycle or you get a developer that is financially supported by a publisher. Publishers like EA won't disappear; they'll still have money to throw around, Developers to Patronize, etc.

uberpixie

Overheal wrote: »

You haven't really adopted the whole 3V thing at all, have you. Young kids do not have problems purchasing digitally and if they did - what's the problem with that? Having a parent in the loop? Have you been to a game store? Kids drag in who with them to the store to buy what?

I agree.....

Both my brothers are teenagers, both have never had a problem getting the credit card off the parents to buy a game when they were getting one as a present or had the cash to pay them back. It's not a big deal for many people, I won't say all as not everyone had broadband or a credit card!

The 3V route also seems to work out well on this site for many students who don't have credit cards.


At this late stage retail should just take the knock and accept that the digital market is well established at this stage, Steam isn't going away any time soon.
@ Venom Ireland: yeah they would get a cut of each game sold, Direct2Drive bit the bullet and now sell Steamworks games and I'm sure they make more money than not stocking the Steamworks games and crying in the corner about it......

Valve took the risks early on and reaped the rewards and now dominate the PC digital download market. They have provided the "value added" services to gamers and Developers which is the icing on the cake.
Granted I hate their pricing but love their sales and the auto patching, the in game chat/voice chat and the web overlay so I gave have a quick look at the internet in the middle of a game. I can even add non steam game shortcuts to Steam and I can still use all of the chat and web browsing features mid game which is pretty sweet.

Retailers lacked the vision and will pay the price unless they stop being little bitches and start competing with Valve and provide keen pricing. Valves prices are very high and I'm sure a retailer with decent pricing would take a cut of the market, even reselling Steamworks games.....


Some of the comments at the bottom of the original link really caught my eye....:

"As a mainly PC publisher I can say without fear of contradiction that if we had been reliant on retail in the UK and US for our business we would not have a business.
Outside of our Russian market and Germany, the Digital business is our major revenue earner.
In recent conferences when the two distribution methods have been discussed, everyone has focussed on the sales numbers, and no-one has mentioned how beneficial it is to have your 60/70% wire transferred direct to your bank account by the end of the month following sale, rather than the old way of getting 30/40% sometime in the following quarter. 30% more margin, 5 months quicker is not something any businessman can look lightly upon!"


"As a publisher, I don't care about retail. They barely stock my games and I make most of my revenue through Steam. But I do see a problem of having one dominant player. Our devs don't use Steamworks. Although we have discussed it."

"I had a meeting with one of my UK publishers, who was complaining that they could only get 30 units of a new title of ours into a major retailer. that's 1 each for their top 30 stores. Cos "There is no demand for it". I had my Steam instant sales tool on screen at the time and my response was "In the 10 seconds it's taken you to tell me there is no demand for it, 45 customers have started to download it on Steam".
Nuff said?"

Retailers should be paying attention to comments like this and perhaps up their game while they still have a market to play in?

cherryghost

Selling 3V vouchers to under 18's is actually illegal. Anyone selling it to them is nearly as bad as selling alcohol to minors. That is all. Continue.

K.O.Kiki

cherryghost wrote: »

Selling 3V vouchers to under 18's is actually illegal. Anyone selling it to them is nearly as bad as selling alcohol to minors. That is all. Continue.

You must be 16 years or older to register for a 3V Customer Card.

cherryghost

Interesting, seeing as I work with Payzone and to sell vouchers to people they must be over 18

WopTittyPop

Overheal wrote: »

You haven't really adopted the whole 3V thing at all, have you.

I completely forgot about 3V, as I've never used it, so you make a good point there. But like it's been said, you need to be 16/18 to register for a card, and from what I can remember gamer kids come in younger ages than 16!

Overheal wrote: »

Boxes are just boxes.

That's the exact response I was expecting, and it's what very few people apparently seem to understand. It's not just the box, it's the box art, the manual *regardless of if you read it or not*, the extras you can get with the game (maps etc.), and the fact of actually having a disc in physical possession rather than a virtual one.

Overheal wrote: »

I don't think your hypothesis on the elderly is based on reality either. The Elderly or the Elderly Gamer? One is not the Luddite

I mean the general elderly, not the specific elderly gamer, and yes it is based on reality. There's plenty of elderly people out there, with kids, who don't know how to use a computer let alone buy something through the internet. And no, I'm not exaggerating. I worked in an electronic store for 3 years and was constantly asked questions that would seem simple to those who are familiar with computers, yet seemed impossible to these customers.
I hardly imagine they would feel comfortable letting their teenage kid use their credit card to buy something on a machine they're not comfortable with. And not every kid is as computer savvy as you might think they are! I know plenty of people, of all ages, that still wouldn't really be comfortable buying something through the internet.

I think you're taking my point of view on the whole thing the wrong way! I'm not against digital distribution of games, and I can definitely see game stores being rid of in the not to distant future. I just feel there are sides to it that people won't like!

super_furry

For the first time I'm actually torn on the digital distribution thing. I usually only buy stuff on Steam when there's sales on, however World of Warcraft Cataclysm is being relased digitally as well as retail. I have the Collector's Edition pre-ordered and it's most likely going to be €70 to €80, while the digital edition will only be €35 and will be available to pre-download and then play at midnight on December 7, which means no queuing up at a midnight launch then coming home (via taxi) and installing and patching.

Actually I think I've just talked myself into the digital version, it'll mean I miss out on all the extras but it's just more convenient.

Overheal

super_furry wrote: »

For the first time I'm actually torn on the digital distribution thing. I usually only buy stuff on Steam when there's sales on, however World of Warcraft Cataclysm is being relased digitally as well as retail. I have the Collector's Edition pre-ordered and it's most likely going to be €70 to €80, while the digital edition will only be €35 and will be available to pre-download and then play at midnight on December 7, which means no queuing up at a midnight launch then coming home (via taxi) and installing and patching.

Actually I think I've just talked myself into the digital version, it'll mean I miss out on all the extras but it's just more convenient.

Ladies and Gentlemen: My case and point.

and the fact of actually having a disc in physical possession rather than a virtual one.

There's only one disc I like to keep handy and thats my Operating System DVD. What was the point of the Starcraft Collectors Edition while sure it has a nice dog tag and a neat pet but in terms of the Disc, I installed and still had to sit around for Patches to take place. That right there just illustrates how much faster the industry is these days that DVD can't keep up: by the time you print a Master and have it published and distributed and ready for release, the Developer has already gone and continued improving on the IP to the point where you'll need to run patches X Y and Z before you play anyway.

cian1500ww

The only disadvantage to digital distribution for me is when I need to format my PC, I hate having to download everything again and I know I should back them up but that'd also take bloody ages!! It's nice to have a physical copy right there

Retr0gamer

Overheal wrote: »

:)There's only one disc I like to keep handy and thats my Operating System DVD. What was the point of the Starcraft Collectors Edition while sure it has a nice dog tag and a neat pet but in terms of the Disc, I installed and still had to sit around for Patches to take place. That right there just illustrates how much faster the industry is these days that DVD can't keep up: by the time you print a Master and have it published and distributed and ready for release, the Developer has already gone and continued improving on the IP to the point where you'll need to run patches X Y and Z before you play anyway.

Is it not more a case of 'We're going to miss the deadline! Screw QA and just fuck it out there, We've 2 months from gold to release we can just patch the bugs we find on release day'. It's more indicitive of what's wring with the industry.

I'd rather have a physical copy on case the digital provider goes titsup and I lose all my games.

Cuddlesworth

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Is it not more a case of 'We're going to miss the deadline! Screw QA and just fuck it out there, We've 2 months from gold to release we can just patch the bugs we find on release day'. It's more indicitive of what's wring with the industry.

I'd rather have a physical copy on case the digital provider goes titsup and I lose all my games.

Lol, its funny to hear somebody say that about starcraft. They were minor bug fixes and balance changes. The original starcraft was still being patched in early 2009.

The fact is with PC's you have millions of different configurations and there will be issues on launch with a huge title.

marco_polo

cian1500ww wrote: »

The only disadvantage to digital distribution for me is when I need to format my PC, I hate having to download everything again and I know I should back them up but that'd also take bloody ages!! It's nice to have a physical copy right there

Unless it has a big scratch in it.

K.O.Kiki

With digital distribution, I don't have to worry about losing the disc, ever.

The data is on my account, and unless Half-Life 2: Episode 3 is complete and utter crap, I don't see Steam going belly-up any time soon.

Fnz

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

unless Half-Life 2: Episode 3 is complete and utter crap, I don't see Steam going belly-up any time soon.

Lol, as if Valve need to make another game, ever.

I'd wager the Steam service be laying golden eggs all over the hizzle.... fo'shizzle.

Nehaxak

I really love the ease of use of Steam, I know it's stupidly more expensive for prices in Euro and even compared to bricks and mortar shops but still, I'm sick of discs and boxes lying around. That and I'm always buggering up my windows install sooner or later and have to reinstall, so thankful for steam backups on another HD, or even having to download them all again, still better than stupid discs and patching stuff up again.

Oh and installing Steam on my sons computer, copying across all my games, logging out myself and letting him play them - such an added bonus.

Normal shops are barely even taking an interest in PC games anymore anyway, probably due to the cut they make on second hand console games so they can shove it far as I'm concerned.

Cuddlesworth

My steam games folder is 360gigs. I shudder to think of where I could store all those box sets.

WopTittyPop

Overheal wrote: »

There's only one disc I like to keep handy and thats my Operating System DVD. What was the point of the Starcraft Collectors Edition while sure it has a nice dog tag and a neat pet but in terms of the Disc, I installed and still had to sit around for Patches to take place. That right there just illustrates how much faster the industry is these days that DVD can't keep up: by the time you print a Master and have it published and distributed and ready for release, the Developer has already gone and continued improving on the IP to the point where you'll need to run patches X Y and Z before you play anyway.

Are you completely putting console games to the side, and focusing only on PC games, when you talk about digital distribution? Because I was considering both!

Overheal

WopTittyPop wrote: »

Are you completely putting console games to the side, and focusing only on PC games, when you talk about digital distribution? Because I was considering both!

Nope

WopTittyPop

Overheal wrote: »

Nope

Well then, PC games aside, your point about waiting around for installation and patches is irrelevant!