Ireland v NZ/Match Thread/ Sat 20th Nov 17.30. **Mod Warning, Read OP.**

LFC5Times

MOD Warning

Folks there's alot of ill tempered crapola creeping back into the forum of late around these autumn internationals. Just general eejitry from folk who should Know better and a fair old dose of LvM bollixology. It's lowering the tone and I 've had enough. I'm going to be infracting and banning for any of the above with gay abandon over the coming week/weekend. So remember my three golden RF rules; (but pay special boards close attention to the third, aka my beloved "golden rule")

Toom.

Debate

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Don't be a Dick

Two games in, two poor performances. Next up New Zealand.

What team would people go with now?

toomevara

LFC5Times wrote: »

What team would people go with now?

At this point if I had an NZ granny I'd be looking to go with them....Next weekend is going to be ugly and no mistake. barring a miracle NZ are going to tag 20+ on us....

phog

LFC5Times wrote: »

Two games in, two poor performances. Next up New Zealand.

What team would people go with now?

I'll still support Ireland.

DDC1990

1. Cian Healy
2. Seán Cronin
3. Tony Buckley
4. Donnacha O'Callaghan
5. Toner/ O'Driscoll
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. Stringer
10. ROG
11. Earls if he's fit if not Luke Fitz
12. D'arcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Best
17. Court
18. MO'D/Toner
19. Leamy
20. Reddan
21. Sexton
22. Earls/ Fitz

thomond2006

^^

Buckley is injured.

Ian_K

1. Cian Healy
2. Sean Cronin
3. I dunno, Derek Davis or someone
4. DOC
5. Leo Cullen
6. Denis Leamy
7. Steven Ferris
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Peter Stringer
10. Johnny Sexton
11. Keith Earls
12. James Downey
13. BOD
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Luke Fitz

16. Damian Varley
17. Mike Ross
18. Devin Toner
19. Sean O'Brien
20. Isaac Boss
21. ROG
22. Gordon Darcy

stephen_n

Hardly matters NZ to win by 50 points!

Cosmo Kramer

1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Ross
4. O'Callaghan
5. Toner
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. Stringer
10. ROG
11. Fitz
12. D'arcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Murphy

16. Best
17. Court
18. Cullen
19. Leamy
20. Reddan
21. Sexton
22. Earls

We have to get back to basics, I'm not interested in props who are good around the park but can't scrummage, or 9s who disrupt the opposition but take all day to throw a pass.

Play Healy, Cronin and Ross in the front row.

Healy because he's the future, Cronin because he's streets ahead of Best right now and Ross because he'll hold the scrum up.

DOC and Toner are the only second row options. Why anyone considers MOD to be an international standard rugby player is beyond me.

Back row picks itself.

Like it or not Stringer is the best 9 we have and has been since 2000. His passing offers us something that none of the alternatives can give. Sexton is still too hit and miss to throw in against the ABs so it needs to be ROG at 10.

Wallace and Trimble are not good enough, Kearney is out of form and Earls isn't ready for this sort of game. So 11-14 should be fairly straight forward. Given the lack of alternatives we need to bring in Murphy at 15.

The lack of quality on the bench scares me.

Badgermonkey

2nd Rows: Ferris and Toner*

Bit mad, I know, but It'd accomodate Leamy/O'Brien in that team and something outta leftfield would be no bad thing.

*Cullen if match fit

Podge_irl

toomevara wrote: »

At this point if I had an NZ granny I'd be looking to go with them....Next weekend is going to be ugly and no mistake. barring a miracle NZ are going to tag 20+ on us....

Think you're setting the bar low there. I expect 40+!

XBOX employee

Score anyone?

Sangre

I'd take the loss and start a team I want. We're going down badly in this game no matter what.

1. Court/Ross
2. Cronin
3. Healy
4. DOC
5. Toner
6. Ferris
7. SOB
8. Heaslip

9. Stringer
10. Sexton
11. Trimble
12. Darcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Fitzgerald

16. Court/Ross
17. Best
18. Cullen
19. Leamy
20. Boss
21. ROG
22. Earls

Username37

1.Healy
2.Cronin
3.Court (Ross not considered because Kidney won't play him)
4.O'Callaghan
5.Toner (Cullen not included because Kidney must hate him)
6.Ferris
7.O'Brien (poor today but so was Wallace the other day.O'Brien can up the game)
8.Heaslip
9.Stringer
10.Sexton
11.Fitzgerald
12.D'arcy
13.O'Driscoll
14.Bowe
15.Murphy (in retrospect putting Fitzgerald at 15 when he has little experience against the all blacks would be suicidal)

16.Best
17.Hayes (unfortunately theres no one else in the squad thanks to Kidney)
18.O'Driscoll/Ryan (it doesnt matter I dont want either to come on unless an injury)
19.Wallace
20.Boss
21.O'Gara
22.Earls

amacachi

Whatever we do I hope NZ don't take it easy like SA or chill out at the end like against England. I want to see a fair representation of where Ireland are.

thomond2006

After 27 minutes of Scotland vs New Zealand I am now convinced we are going to get hammered no matter what.

tolosenc

What I would pick:

1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Ross
4. Cullen
5. Toner
6. Ferris
7. SOB
8. Heaslip

9. Stringer
10. Sexton

11. Trimble
12. Wallace
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Fitzgerald

16. Best
17. Court
18. O'Callaghan
19. Leamy
20. Boss
21. O'Gara
22. Kearney

Who will probably start, given past selection performances by the Ireland camp:

1. Court
2. Best
3. Hayes
4. DOC
5. MOD
6. Wallace
7. Leamy
8. Heaslip

9. Stringer
10. ROG

11. Earls
12. D'arcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Fitz


NZ to win, hopefully not by a cricket score...

irishbucsfan

If we start Cronin be prepared to concede 5+ penalties in the scrum.

Personally I absolutely cannot see it happening. Kidney has shown in the past that he has little faith in him.

Posted my team in the other thread:

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Court
4. DOC
5. Toner
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. Stringer
10. Sexton
11. Kearney/Earls
12. D'Arcy (I'd love to see Wallace but I don't think it'll happen)
13. Drico
14. Bowe
15. Fitzgerald

16. Cronin
17. Healy
18. Ryan
19. SOB
20. Boss (will probably be Reddan)
21. ROG
22. Earls/Trimble

Username37

I wonder how this forum would have reacted if I said 2 weeks ago that John Hayes was going to start against New Zealand....

Ian_K

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If we start Cronin be prepared to concede 5+ penalties in the scrum

To be honest the hooker is never going to have that big an effect at scrum time,
I wouldnt blame him for what happened today either, he was put in there with two props who are just way out of their depth at international level.

irishbucsfan

Username37 wrote: »

I wonder how this forum would have reacted if I said 2 weeks ago that John Hayes was going to start against New Zealand....

He won't. Definitely not. IMO He was started today to repay him for not retiring at a time when Irish rugby was desperate for THs. It was a loyalty thing in a fairly meaningless game for a man who's been a brilliant servant.

He was disastrous out there. If he plays against New Zealand, he won't last 10 minutes.

irishbucsfan

Ian_K wrote: »

To be honest the hooker is never going to have that big an effect at scrum time,

That's pretty incorrect TBH. Ask Paul Wallace about his views on why Vickery was beaten in the first Lions Test in SA. A Hooker is a very important part of the front row. Based on today I can see why Kidney has refrained from playing Sean Cronin in the past.

I wouldnt blame him for what happened today either, he was put in there with two props who are just way out of their depth at international level.

Well one of those two props was moved across to TH when Healy was brought on (who isn't known for his scrummaging either). After that the Scrum was easilly handling the Samoans.

Now, IMO, that was because 1) Court is the far better TH and 2) Best is the far better scrummaging Hooker.

Cronin threw very well today, but it was against a pathetically unorganised Samoan lineout, with Devin Toner jumping, being lifted by John Hayes. I'm not convinced that that's enough to give him the start against the best team in the world next week.

WeeBushy

What I want:

15. Fitzgerald
14. Bowe
13. O'Driscoll
12. D'arcy
11. Trimble
10. Sexton
9. Sexton
1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Court
4. O'Callaghan
5. Toner
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip

16. Hayes
17. Best
18. Cullen
19. Leamy
20. Boss
21. O'Gara
22. Kearney (if fit) / Earls

What I think he will pick:

15. Kearney (if fit)
14. Bowe
13. O'Driscoll
12. D'Arcy
11. Fitzgerald
10. O'Gara
9. Sexton
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Hayes
4. Ryan
5. O'Callaghan
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

16. Court
17. Cronin
18. O'Driscoll
19. O'Brien
20. Boss
21. Sexton
22. Earls

Badgermonkey

WeeBushy wrote: »

What I want:

15. Fitzgerald
14. Bowe
13. O'Driscoll
12. D'arcy
11. Trimble
10. Sexton
9. Sexton
1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Court
4. O'Callaghan
5. Toner
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip

16. Hayes
17. Best
18. Cullen
19. Leamy
20. Boss
21. O'Gara
22. Kearney (if fit) / Earls

What I think he will pick:

15. Kearney (if fit)
14. Bowe
13. O'Driscoll
12. D'Arcy
11. Fitzgerald
10. O'Gara
9. Sexton
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Hayes
4. Ryan
5. O'Callaghan
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

16. Court
17. Cronin
18. O'Driscoll
19. O'Brien
20. Boss
21. Sexton
22. Earls

Who are these sextons you speak of?

irishbucsfan

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Who are these sextons you speak of?

Tom Sexton. He's our wildcard. The fact he's a hooker is irrelevant.

LFC5Times

WeeBushy wrote: »

What I want:

15. Fitzgerald
14. Bowe
13. O'Driscoll
12. D'arcy
11. Trimble
10. Sexton
9. Sexton
1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Court
4. O'Callaghan
5. Toner
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip

16. Hayes
17. Best
18. Cullen
19. Leamy
20. Boss
21. O'Gara
22. Kearney (if fit) / Earls

What I think he will pick:

15. Kearney (if fit)
14. Bowe
13. O'Driscoll
12. D'Arcy
11. Fitzgerald
10. O'Gara
9. Sexton
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Hayes
4. Ryan
5. O'Callaghan
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

16. Court
17. Cronin
18. O'Driscoll
19. O'Brien
20. Boss
21. Sexton
22. Earls

Sexton scrumhalf :eek:

Shane732

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Tom Sexton. He's our wildcard. The fact he's a hooker is irrelevant.

Brilliant!!

Risteard

1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Ross (If he were in the frame but has to be Court I suppose)
4.Doc
5.Toner
6.Ferris
7.SOB
8.Heaslip
9.Stringer
10.Sexton
11.Trimble
12.Wallace
13.BOD
14.Bowe
15.Fitz

16.Best
17. Considering we aren't seeing Ross near the squad it looks like only one option....:(
18.Ryan
19.Leamy
20.Boss
21.RoG
22.Kearney (I'm going to assume that Earls isn't that fit as I would have expected him to get a few minutes today)

Teferi

Lads, I'm going to be controversial here - Ireland by 3.





:pac:

We're going to be hockeyed unfortunately. I don't know what has gone wrong with Irish rugby recently but something needs to change or else we won't even make it out of the group next September. I feel terribly disheartened altogether.

RuggieBear

I think THE FEAR will be there and lansdowne road will be full and loud so I reckon ireland will up their performance big time. Not sure of it will be enough but I feel the match will be a lot closer than it should be.

anonymous_joe

RuggieBear wrote: »

I think THE FEAR will be there and lansdowne road will be full and loud so I reckon ireland will up their performance big time. Not sure of it will be enough but I feel the match will be a lot closer than it should be.

Close in score, never in result would be my prediction.

Cosmo Kramer

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Close in score, never in result would be my prediction.

That might be the worst thing that could happen.

If Kidney picks the type of team I think he's going to, then a 50 point plus hosing would be the best thing that could happen to us. If we get away within 25 with an improved performance we'll just be continuing on towards another world cup disaster.

anonymous_joe

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

That might be the worst thing that could happen.

If Kidney picks the type of team I think he's going to, then a 50 point plus hosing would be the best thing that could happen to us. If we get away within 25 with an improved performance we'll just be continuing on towards another world cup disaster.

My prediction - NZ will score, maybe 30 or 40 points. We'll be on about 10 or 12. We'll then score a couple of tries as NZ get bored and bring on Stephen Donald. That'll pull it up to 40 25 or so.

Kidney'll talk about a good fightback, a close performance.

We will never ever learn.

Ian_K

Any chance we could start Mike Glenn Ross at tighthead next week??

Cosmo Kramer

Ian_K wrote: »

Any chance we could start Mike Glenn Ross at tighthead next week??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Ross

Not much older than the bull and he might be able to hold up a scrum!

thomond2006

I think Stephen Donald has been treated disgracefully by the ABs management.

He should start next week and play the full 80 minutes, with Dan Carter superglued to a seat in the stand.





Hmm........oh yes.

Ian_K

I genuinely cant believe there is not a better outhalf in New Zealand than Donald, I mean Donncha O'Callaghans kicking out of hand looked more natural today!
Surely there is a young guy they could be blooding, even if all hes goin to be doing is keeping a spot on the bench warm

ButtersSuki

If NZ really want to lay down a marker next Saturday, they could easily put 40 on us. But they'll likely take Carter off 10mins into the 2nd half as they did today and slowly take the rest of the stars off over the remaining 30mins thus slowing down the points rate. They put 49 on Scotland today who are (at least currently) a more physical team than us and particularly in the pack; but the scary thing is anyone who watched it knows it could have been 60+.

Looking more long-term, France and England will bully us in the 6N (whatever the result) and as we're away 3 times, it could be a long season.......:(

Craig Dowling

Going on todays evidence we will be walloped by 50 points
ABs were lethal today and already butchered us in the summer

Foxtrol

We can only hope not to leak any tries early and build some kind of belief within the team and the crowd*

*With everything I've seen with NZ and Ireland over the last year I rate the chances of this happening at close to zero

Digifriendly

NZ are light years at present. Their defeat in Hong Kong was a blip with nothing at stake barring pride. A Grand Slam is at stake on this tour and they're taking no prisoners so I predict they'll win at a canter. BTW all the hype about Australia was blown out of the water at Twickenham by a very good and getting better by the game England so our encounter with the latter in the 6N should be fascinating especially since it is at Lansdowne road.

ShamoBuc

Really looking forward to the game - which is strange, like looking forward to your own funeral! I think we are capable of putting in a good performance and the AB's could have a poor day at the office - leading to a marginal win for Ireland.
Or reality might happen and we will lose the first half by 25pts and the second half by 15!

Foxtrol

Ian_K wrote: »

I genuinely cant believe there is not a better outhalf in New Zealand than Donald, I mean Donncha O'Callaghans kicking out of hand looked more natural today!
Surely there is a young guy they could be blooding, even if all hes goin to be doing is keeping a spot on the bench warm

Did neither Cruden or Slade travel? I know Cruden had a bit of a nightmare against Oz but would have thought he would have still made the trip & gotten a bit of game time.

thomond2006

Foxtrol wrote: »

Did neither Cruden or Slade travel? I know Cruden had a bit of a nightmare against Oz but would have thought he would have still made the trip & gotten a bit of game time.

Neither traveled.

Donald has proven himself to be a bottler under pressure, can't really understand why the ABs management rate him above the others.

Was at the AB game today, they didn't get out of 2nd gear.

Was as if they were playing a different game.

Hope they don't make us look as "special" as they easily could next weekend.

CouchSmart

Team I'd like to see:

15. G. Murphy
14. Bowe
13. BOD
12. D'Arcy
11. Fitz
10. Sexton
9. Stringer
8. Heaslip
7. SOB
6. Fez
5. Toner
4. DOC
3. Court/Ross
2. Cronin
1. Healy

With Hayes no where to be seen in the 22.

Team I think DK will pick:
15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. BOD
12. D'Arcy
11. Fitz
10. ROG
9. Stringer
8. Heaslip
7. Wally
6. Fez
5. MOD
4. DOC
3. Hayes/Court - with the other on the bench.
2. Best
1. Healy

It's pretty hopeless by my reckoning but at the very least I'd like to learn something about the team and specifically some of the younger guys.

WeeBushy

LFC5Times wrote: »

Sexton scrumhalf :eek:

Time to try out something new :pac:

corny

CouchSmart wrote: »

Team I think DK will pick:
15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. BOD
12. D'Arcy
11. Fitz
10. ROG
9. Stringer
8. Heaslip
7. Wally
6. Fez
5. MOD
4. DOC
3. Hayes/Court - with the other on the bench.
2. Best
1. Healy

If he picks that team with Court on the bench i think i'd cry.

We'll do well to score a try against the NZ'ers never mind being competitive at present. You'd have to think their continuity in attack and our **** set piece and poor ball retention will mean we'll probably only see 20% of the ball.

CouchSmart

corny wrote: »

If he picks that team i think i'd cry.

FTFY. :P

wixfjord

32 for NZ on the Leinster site
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/5443.php

Podge_irl

wixfjord wrote: »

32 for NZ on the Leinster site
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/5443.php

Playing all 32 at the same time is about the only chance we have of winning...

B0X

I think the best we can hope for from Kidney in regards the front row would be Healy-Cronin-Court to start with Best and Ross on the bench. It's not so mind blowingly different that Kidney wouldn't pick it... Ross for Hayes in the subs though, does he have the balls?