HELP structure my mess

wackojacko

Ok so i plan to do 4 days a week. I have done starting strength. Made progress for a awhile. I have had injuries that have meant i could not squat or deadlift for about 8 months. I have lost alot of muscle in that time. Both lifts down 40%. Anyone care to help me sort out my messy gym sessions.

Want to have 2 days squat dead and bench to try get these back up.
Would also like to get 2 days one leg squat in somewhere to help sort out my imbalance issues.

day1
deadlift
pull ups
close grip bench
high pull
one leg squat

day 2
bench
squat
decline bench
triceps extensions
bicep curls

day 3
deadlift
shoulder press
lunge
front squat
jm press
hammer curls

day 4
bench press
squat
chin ups
inverted row
incline press
dips

Remmy

why dont you just go back to starting strength?

Brian?

Remmy wrote: »

why dont you just go back to starting strength?

+1 to that.

If you made gains on it and then lost said gains, why not use SS to regain what's been lost?

wackojacko

I had stopped making gains on starting strength . Then got injuries and started doing different lifts. I have just kept adding new lifts and would now like to get some structure to it and make sure i am maximizing my gym time by having a program that will work.
My target is strength gain more so than mass gain.

Brian?

wackojacko wrote: »

I had stopped making gains on starting strength . Then got injuries and started doing different lifts. I have just kept adding new lifts and would now like to get some structure to it and make sure i am maximizing my gym time by having a program that will work.
My target is strength gain more so than mass gain.

You stopped making gains, got injured and now your strength level is below where it was pre injury? Is that right?

If it is correct, do starting strength again until you stall. It worked the first time, so why wouldn't it work again?

I don't think adding new lifts is the answer. Getting better at the big lifts is.

Priority 1 is get stronger in the big 3:squat, deadlift and bench. Priority 2 would be getting stronger in row, military press, clean and chin/pullup.

You add in assistance after that if you want.

In others words do starting strength, when you outgrow that move onto an intermediate 5x5 like Bill Starr's one.

wackojacko

6 months of starting stregth. Then stalled. Moved to bill starr for 3 months. Then stalled for next month. Got injured. I have been just doing 5 * 5 of the lifts i can for about 8 months now.

Remmy

wackojacko wrote: »

6 months of starting stregth. Then stalled. Moved to bill starr for 3 months. Then stalled for next month. Got injured. I have been just doing 5 * 5 of the lifts i can for about 8 months now.

Which lift stalled for you?How many times did you reset them?

wackojacko

Remmy wrote: »

Which lift stalled for you?How many times did you reset them?

Bench press and shoulder press stalled. reset 3 times. I have improved my bench in recent months by doing 8 * 3 twice a week.

Brian?

wackojacko wrote: »

Bench press and shoulder press stalled. reset 3 times. I have improved my bench in recent months by doing 8 * 3 twice a week.

You should really have gotten more than 3 months out of Bill Starr intermediate 5x5. Could it have been a technique issue with your bench?

What weight did you stall at?

wackojacko

briankeating wrote: »

You should really have gotten more than 3 months out of Bill Starr intermediate 5x5. Could it have been a technique issue with your bench?

What weight did you stall at?

Stalled at 87kg 5 * 5. I have definately improved my technique in last month. So maybe might be worth starting again. Any ideas about the day split i have posted. Would that work using 5*5 for big lifts.

Brian?

wackojacko wrote: »

Stalled at 87kg 5 * 5. I have definately improved my technique in last month. So maybe might be worth starting again. Any ideas about the day split i have posted. Would that work using 5*5 for big lifts.

The only thing I don't like about your split is that its 4 days instead of 3 .

I don't think there is enough rest if you're going to squat, bench, DL and press 5x5 x2 a week. You seem to want to make up for lost time by pushing yourself very hard, be careful about that.

You might be better off doing Bench/DL day, off, Squat/Press day, off, Bench/DL day, off, off and repeat with Monday being a heavy day, Wed a light day and Friday a Medium day.

Or, I'm not going to let this go , re visit Bill Starr Intermediate 5x5 and squat 3 times a week. Just to be crystal clear this is the one I do myself:

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Bill_Starr_5x5#Madcow_Intermediate_5x5

wackojacko

briankeating wrote: »

The only thing I don't like about your split is that its 4 days instead of 3 .

I don't think there is enough rest if you're going to squat, bench, DL and press 5x5 x2 a week. You seem to want to make up for lost time by pushing yourself very hard, be careful about that.

You might be better off doing Bench/DL day, off, Squat/Press day, off, Bench/DL day, off, off and repeat with Monday being a heavy day, Wed a light day and Friday a Medium day.

Or, I'm not going to let this go , re visit Bill Starr Intermediate 5x5 and squat 3 times a week. Just to be crystal clear this is the one I do myself:

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Bill_Starr_5x5#Madcow_Intermediate_5x5

Ya your right i am trying to make up for lost time. Prob could live with one day of back squats.
Thanks

Transform

wackojacko wrote: »

Stalled at 87kg 5 * 5. I have definately improved my technique in last month. So maybe might be worth starting again. Any ideas about the day split i have posted. Would that work using 5*5 for big lifts.

sort out the imbalances and stop trying to put compound movements on top of an unstable/disfunctional base.

All the recommendations for programs are not going to matter a fiddle unless you resolve where you have issues.

You want to put a one legged squat in there somewhere? Are you for real? What you have outlined is insane as -
1)i expect all exercises are to failure
2)you are not accounting for rehab/prehab exercises
3) have you identified weaknesses or very tight aeas that need work e.g. tight shoudlers, glutes, tight hip flexors
4) No varying intensity in each session i.e. just doing a metcon type day or conditioning day with just body resistance work.

Sort out you weak limits FIRST.

wackojacko

Transform wrote: »

sort out the imbalances and stop trying to put compound movements on top of an unstable/disfunctional base.

All the recommendations for programs are not going to matter a fiddle unless you resolve where you have issues.

You want to put a one legged squat in there somewhere? Are you for real? What you have outlined is insane as -
1)i expect all exercises are to failure
2)you are not accounting for rehab/prehab exercises
3) have you identified weaknesses or very tight aeas that need work e.g. tight shoudlers, glutes, tight hip flexors
4) No varying intensity in each session i.e. just doing a metcon type day or conditioning day with just body resistance work.

Sort out you weak limits FIRST.

When i was doing starr the intensity was varied. So no all exercises are not to failure. I have identified my weaknesses and i have had treatment for this. I have been advised to perform one leg squats and i must say so far they have been helpful. So thats why id like to do more of them.

Transform

wackojacko wrote: »

When i was doing starr the intensity was varied. So no all exercises are not to failure. I have identified my weaknesses and i have had treatment for this. I have been advised to perform one leg squats and i must say so far they have been helpful. So thats why id like to do more of them.

Having treatment for weaknesses does not stop there. You should be doing work on all the weak areas in each session e.g. band pulls, hip bridges, foam rolling, scap press ups, anti rotation exercises, core stabilization exercises, goblet squat holds, IYT's, etc

All of which are going to have a much bigger effect than just throwing in some one leg squats (which are a good exercises).

Most of the stuff i see daily when it comes to people trying to get stronger is the guy/girl is not moving as efficiently as possible in e.g. deadlift, by overworking the muscles that shouldnt be doing all the work and under working the muscles that should.

What are your current or best lifts, your body weight and height??

wackojacko

Transform wrote: »

Having treatment for weaknesses does not stop there. You should be doing work on all the weak areas in each session e.g. band pulls, hip bridges, foam rolling, scap press ups, anti rotation exercises, core stabilization exercises, goblet squat holds, IYT's, etc

All of which are going to have a much bigger effect than just throwing in some one leg squats (which are a good exercises).

Most of the stuff i see daily when it comes to people trying to get stronger is the guy/girl is not moving as efficiently as possible in e.g. deadlift, by overworking the muscles that shouldnt be doing all the work and under working the muscles that should.

What are your current or best lifts, your body weight and height??

I will look into the exercises that you have mentioned. Sholud i do these as a warm up for everysession or what.
Stats 5 11 78kg. Squat best 160kg bench 100kg dead 183kg

Transform

yes you should do some of them in all sessions - just rotate the ones you do or keep putting in the ones that you find set you up for your workouts best.

You have or had really impressive numbers at at that body weight I would imagine you would do well in any powerlifting meet. Would you consider putting on a bit more weight in order to get the numbers up much or would you be happy to get back to those really impressive numbers i.e. how strong do you really need to be and what are your goals. If its just to get stronger then just go back to abreviated programs with varying rep ranges and intensity with plenty of rehab/prehab stuff thrown in

wackojacko

Transform wrote: »

yes you should do some of them in all sessions - just rotate the ones you do or keep putting in the ones that you find set you up for your workouts best.

You have or had really impressive numbers at at that body weight I would imagine you would do well in any powerlifting meet. Would you consider putting on a bit more weight in order to get the numbers up much or would you be happy to get back to those really impressive numbers i.e. how strong do you really need to be and what are your goals. If its just to get stronger then just go back to abreviated programs with varying rep ranges and intensity with plenty of rehab/prehab stuff thrown in

Thanks
looking forward to trying out rehab work. Ya if i put on more weight thats ok. Goal is to get back to my best for new year and hopefully then to set some pbs.

kevpants

I don't think what the imbalances are has been mentioned? What are they exactly?

You're strong, Starting Strength is the wrong answer for you IMO.

I'd disagree with the general feeling in this thread that you're doing a lot wrong. You aren't. I think you need to trust yourself a bit more, you don't need a cookie cutter program to tell you everything you should be doing.

5x5 being re-set over and over again is going to do f-all for someone at your level, I think your bench experience proves that.

You know more than you think, you never said what you think would be best for you?

The imbalances, whatever they are, need attention obviously. But this is really additional work to your main training. My hips are in a state and it causes me to pick up lower back injuries. I'm working on the problem every chance I get but I'm still chasing PR's on my big lifts. You don't need to lose focus.

Transform

kevpants wrote: »

I don't think what the imbalances are has been mentioned? What are they exactly?

You're strong, Starting Strength is the wrong answer for you IMO.

I'd disagree with the general feeling in this thread that you're doing a lot wrong. You aren't. I think you need to trust yourself a bit more, you don't need a cookie cutter program to tell you everything you should be doing.

5x5 being re-set over and over again is going to do f-all for someone at your level, I think your bench experience proves that.

You know more than you think, you never said what you think would be best for you?

The imbalances, whatever they are, need attention obviously. But this is really additional work to your main training. My hips are in a state and it causes me to pick up lower back injuries. I'm working on the problem every chance I get but I'm still chasing PR's on my big lifts. You don't need to lose focus.

i would agree with much of that and how strong do you really want to be or is that a goal you are chasing

PR's are going to come easier without consistent issues from other areas that should not be doing all the work e.g. quads on squats as opposed to hams and glutes

wackojacko

kevpants wrote: »

I don't think what the imbalances are has been mentioned? What are they exactly?

You're strong, Starting Strength is the wrong answer for you IMO.

I'd disagree with the general feeling in this thread that you're doing a lot wrong. You aren't. I think you need to trust yourself a bit more, you don't need a cookie cutter program to tell you everything you should be doing.

5x5 being re-set over and over again is going to do f-all for someone at your level, I think your bench experience proves that.

You know more than you think, you never said what you think would be best for you?

The imbalances, whatever they are, need attention obviously. But this is really additional work to your main training. My hips are in a state and it causes me to pick up lower back injuries. I'm working on the problem every chance I get but I'm still chasing PR's on my big lifts. You don't need to lose focus.

Ham strings a bit weak . Deadlifting 2 times a week and squating really low is what i had planned. As transform says there is/was underlying issues but i think i am ready for 4 days a week and was hoping to split it something like in my first post.

Transform

wackojacko wrote: »

Ham strings a bit weak . Deadlifting 2 times a week and squating really low is what i had planned. As transform says there is/was underlying issues but i think i am ready for 4 days a week and was hoping to split it something like in my first post.

i think the split is ok but i thought were were going to be doing all days to failure so as long as you are mixing the intensity then its ok but would put in more ham or post chain stuff e.g. SLDL, glute ham raises, swiss ball leg curls, val/glider leg curls, x-band walks etc. Its not so much to put some in as part of a warm up or instead of other exericses.