no to property tax

Orlan65

please tell me that the irish people are going to stand up to the gov and say no to property tax.
the thing is that the banks own most of the houses in ireland so why should we have to pay property tax.
do you think the irish people should agree to this tax?
i dont think that many people will be able to afford it. time are hard now wait until 7th dec.
it is people like us that have to pay for the mistakes of the gov, banks and builders!!
why us???

johnnyskeleton

A tax can raise revenue, but it can also discourage activities.

Taxing property has a lesser impact discouraging people from buying property than taxing income discourages people to work. Getting people back to work should also be priority number 1, not encouraging people to buy houses.

Plus, it is a more stable source of tax income.

ninty9er

OP are you opposing it on the basis that it's a poor policy choice or because it's going to cost you money?

I don't think anyone could reasonably argue it's a poor policy choice, we're about the only country in Europe without residential rates and water charges.

gizmo555

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

A tax can raise revenue, but it can also discourage activities.

As someone pointed out on the radio this evening, since there would have to be an exemption for the unemployed, it would be another factor discouraging people from taking up relatively low-paid employment.

The ESRI is mooting a tax of around €950 p.a., so the effect could be non-trivial.

Mind you, they did also suggest past payments of stamp duty could be considered as "pre-payments" of any new property tax, which could postpone any liability for many property owners for decades . . .

Zaph

gizmo555 wrote: »

The ESRI is mooting a tax of around €950 p.a., so the effect could be non-trivial.

Ouch. Are they suggesting a flat tax or one based on property values? I'll be rightly p*ssed off if I have to pay the same amount on my modest little house as some guy living on Ailesbury road.

Liam Byrne

€80 a month is being reported.

I have absolutely no idea where Cowen & Lenihan expect me to find an extra grand a year.

Caoimhín

Zaph wrote: »

Ouch. Are they suggesting a flat tax or one based on property values? I'll be rightly p*ssed off if I have to pay the same amount on my modest little house as some guy living on Ailesbury road.

It should be on a per square foot basis, like in the UK. The OS already have the square footage of almost every house and property in the country.

gizmo555

Zaph wrote: »

Ouch. Are they suggesting a flat tax or one based on property values? I'll be rightly p*ssed off if I have to pay the same amount on my modest little house as some guy living on Ailesbury road.

According to the article linked to, it seems to be flat rate. They will be presenting the details of their proposals at a seminar today (Thu) and of course the govt may do something completely different.

Suffice it to say that if the stamp-duty pre-payment idea is adopted and the guy on Ailesbury Road bought any time in the last decade, it will be several lifetimes before he uses up his credit!

jonnybravo

They were originally proposing to do it on a self evaluation basis on the valuation of a house. Each price brackets would have a different tax associated, for example, one price bracket could be 200k-400k with a tax of 500e (only an example - not quoting figures from anywhere!!). Haven't read anywhere about a new proposed system?

Ireland has to increase tax from somewhere so I think this and water charges makes sense to introduce. Think a good idea would be to introduce a 5/10 year break for people that paid stamp duty on their house and then tax them after that period has expired.

tails_naf

you have to be kidding me - sq ft is the worst way to do it -

a sq fit in the countryside in the midlands costs a lot less than a sq ft in foxrock!
it should be based on value, and perhaps equity as a second term, and stapduty paid as a third. combine those and you have a fair system.

however, I am totally against property tax in principle. even if I eventually pay off my mortgage, I still have to pay to have my house every.single.year - insane!

iMax

Liam Byrne wrote: »

€80 a month is being reported.

I have absolutely no idea where Cowen & Lenihan expect me to find an extra grand a year.

+1

There's no way the majority of people in Ireland could afford an extra grand a year. I have a huge problem with paying taxes on something you've already paid tax on, not to mention the likes of people who've cleared their mortgages, why should they have to pay a tax on it ?

And as for water rates, in a country where it rains 200+ days of the year... Ludicrous

I can see myself going to prison at some point in the next couple of years...

ArtSmart

Caoimhín wrote: »

It should be on a per square foot basis, like in the UK. The OS already have the square footage of almost every house and property in the country.

now they do - after it cost Thatcher the election

gizmo555 wrote: »

According to the article linked to, it seems to be flat rate. They will be presenting the details of their proposals at a seminar today (Thu) and of course the govt may do something completely different.

Suffice it to say that if the stamp-duty pre-payment idea is adopted and the guy on Ailesbury Road bought any time in the last decade, it will be several lifetimes before he uses up his credit!

Poll Tax anyone?

are this gov suicidal?

Caoimhín

tails_naf wrote: »

you have to be kidding me - sq ft is the worst way to do it -

a sq fit in the countryside in the midlands costs a lot less than a sq ft in foxrock!
it should be based on value, and perhaps equity as a second term, and stapduty paid as a third. combine those and you have a fair system.

however, I am totally against property tax in principle. even if I eventually pay off my mortgage, I still have to pay to have my house every.single.year - insane!

In the UK the local authority sets the rate. Therefore London would have higher rates than the Scottish highlands.

Seems reasonable to me.

Caoimhín

ArtSmart wrote: »

Poll Tax anyone?

are this gov suicidal?

Well no matter what way tax is raised, we simply can not keep expecting Scandinavian style social services with low tax rates.

donkey balls

They talked about it on the last word this evening and judging from what the guy was saying it could get messy,For instance if they charged you for the size of your house you could have people who built down in the country paying more as a lot of houses would be bigger than in the cities.
Then it could go on house prices were people from the likes of Dubln and other cities pay more than there country cousins.
It will be interesting to see how this one pans out i reckon if water charges come in the govt will f**k that up as well by not putting the money back into the scheme,Then you have people paying mgmt company fee for the so called up keep of there houses/apartments.

ArtSmart

Caoimhín wrote: »

Well no matter what way tax is raised, we simply can not keep expecting Scandinavian style social services with low tax rates.

well if it brings down the gov...

naw, ye cant have a one rate for all, in spite of the size of the property. it will be seen as blatantly unfair.

actually the current UK system is a good model .

Liam Byrne

ArtSmart wrote: »

well if it brings dwon the gov...

naw, ye cant have a one rate for all, in spite of the size of the property. it will be seen as blatantly unfair.

Since when has that stopped those in power ?

Zaph

ArtSmart wrote: »

are this gov suicidal?

What have they got to lose? They know they're doomed anyway, so they probably figure that they may as well make the unpopular decisions now, the other guys will have to deal with the continuing fallout from them when they get elected.

amacachi

ArtSmart wrote: »

now they do - after it cost Thatcher the election



Poll Tax anyone?

are this gov suicidal?

The Poll Tax was going to be based on income, people protested and were listened to so they got the Council Tax, I think the Poll Tax was a little fairer.

smokie2008

gizmo555 wrote: »

The ESRI is mooting a tax of around €950 p.a., so the effect could be non-trivial.

Holy.......Fuking........Sh!t........ €950 p.a.??? Where the hell are people already struggling like crazy on their mortgage payments going to get that kind of money???

mikom

What's the property tax on caravans these days?

ArtSmart

amacachi wrote: »

The Poll Tax was going to be based on income, people protested and were listened to so they got the Council Tax, I think the Poll Tax was a little fairer.

would have to dispute that one Amacachi. (to tired to link you up)

but even if that were true, public perception is all in this instance.

ArtSmart

mikom wrote: »

What's the property tax on caravans these days?

i believe there's a sale on tents...

maninasia

iMax wrote: »

+1

There's no way the majority of people in Ireland could afford an extra grand a year. I have a huge problem with paying taxes on something you've already paid tax on, not to mention the likes of people who've cleared their mortgages, why should they have to pay a tax on it ?

And as for water rates, in a country where it rains 200+ days of the year... Ludicrous

I can see myself going to prison at some point in the next couple of years...

Collect the rainwater yourself then

Cavehill Red

A grand a year property tax?

That'll assist the soft landing in the housing market that Fianna Fail were talking about for the guts of a decade.

Mezcita

smokie2008 wrote: »

Holy.......Fuking........Sh!t........ €950 p.a.??? Where the hell are people already struggling like crazy on their mortgage payments going to get that kind of money???

You think it's bad now, imagine what it's like when the interest rates start going up again?

Anyhoo, any objections to these taxes will fall on deaf ears once the IMF come in.

szjon

maninasia wrote: »

Collect the rainwater yourself then

In britain you still have to pay as the water is running off your property to 'their' sewers. It's funny really, my ancestors paid for those sewers, now they are renting them back?

As for the property tax, renting your property from the government, hang on, isn't that 'our' government?

Then again, the term homeowner is widely abused these days. Funny how those 'homeowners' are being subsidised to the tune of €27m a year by those fortunate not to have jumped on that particular bandwagon.

Funny how people can't scrape up €1000 a year. My partner is a factory worker, I'm a waiter and we have 3 kids. Good life and plenty savings. i could scrape together a grand a month if I had to, why can't everyone else?

Over-extended perhaps?

You had the good, time to pay the piper lads and lasses, now tighten those belts and stop whining will ya!

MagicMarker

szjon wrote: »

Funny how people can't scrape up €1000 a year. My partner is a factory worker, I'm a waiter and we have 3 kids. Good life and plenty savings. i could scrape together a grand a month if I had to, why can't everyone else?

Maybe because we're not all you?

danbohan

tails_naf wrote: »

you have to be kidding me - sq ft is the worst way to do it -

a sq fit in the countryside in the midlands costs a lot less than a sq ft in foxrock!
it should be based on value, and perhaps equity as a second term, and stapduty paid as a third. combine those and you have a fair system.

however, I am totally against property tax in principle. even if I eventually pay off my mortgage, I still have to pay to have my house every.single.year - insane!

most countries have property tax , i have house on long island on which i pay $6000 per year and its not a mansion , even in a third world country like the phillippines we pay property tax , so what makes ireland so different , be very very happy if you get away at 80e per month ,

mrgaa1

about time property tax was brought in - we do live in a relatively low tax regime and as other posters have correctly pointed out we are probably the only country in Europe that doesn't have such a tax.
Also I think now is the best time to set it as the Government can't go overboard and make it too high. For example if you go to http://www.lpsni.gov.uk/ and find a relatives home address you will see the valuation that was done and select which council area then the rates for the year are made available. My own rates - when worked back to Euro - are €136 per month I can't change it or do anything about it. So given that its being mentioned €80 a month for a house valued at €240k its not bad. Also I live in the back end of beyond and don't get the opportunity to avail of footpaths and street lighting and main sewerage.


I think the article in the INDO needs to be read fully. It seems to imply that for every 100k your house is valued at its 33 euro a month. Property tax is inevitable and has to happen.

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/homeowners-face-paying-euro80amonth-property-tax-2415844.html

HOMEOWNERS face paying an €80-a-month property tax under a plan drawn up by the country's top economic think-tank.
The charge would be based on the value of homes, and middle-income earners would end up providing most of the tax generated, the study by the Economic and Social Research Institute says.
Homeowners who bought their house and paid stamp duty in recent years would be given a waiver, as they would be regarded as having already paid a property tax. Those on low incomes and people getting social welfare benefits would be exempted from the payment.
Even with these exemptions, a property tax could still bring in close to €1bn a year, as the Government draws up plans for a €15bn package of cuts and taxes over the next four years.
There are 1.7 million households in the country, but the exemption scheme would mean up to 235,000 householders would not have to pay the tax, the ESRI says. But the study, which sets out how a property tax would work, warns that exempting those with little or no income from the payment could stop those on welfare ever taking up a job.
A property tax is currently being considered by the Government, as it strives to meet its €6bn target of cuts and taxes for next year's Budget.
Sources have indicated that it is almost certain to figure prominently in the four-year budgetary plan to cut the deficit, which is set to be unveiled in the next few weeks.
The tax would cost €80 a month for the average household based on a property value of €240,000.
The majority of the tax would be paid in Dublin, as incomes and property values are higher on the east coast. Some 55pc of the tax would be raised in the greater Dublin area. The study found 44pc of disposable income is generated in Dublin.
The ESRI said such a tax could be introduced quickly based on updating existing data on house values, a task that could be carried out by a private firm of valuers.
In two academic papers examining how a property tax might work, the state-funded think tank said the tax would work best if it was based on the valuation of homes.
Dr Tim Callan of the ESRI admitted the study showed that middle-income earners would end up providing most of the tax generated.
The average amount of the tax would be €950 a year, and it would only be imposed on owner occupiers. Middle-income earners would up having to shell out between €832 and €1,040 a year.
Unfair
Asked about middle Ireland being hit by an unfair tax burden, Dr Callan commented: "There is no painless way of getting extra income in."
A property tax is the sort of revenue-raising measure that would have the least impact on the labour market, he said.
The ESRI suggested that a simple property tax, with no reliefs or income exemption limits, at a rate of 0.4pc of a property's value could raise revenue of about €1.1bn per year.
It said there is potentially an important role for property tax in Ireland, but there was a need to shield those who could not pay it. But it added that even if reliefs were built into the system for the low paid and those on social welfare, the tax could still generate close to €1bn.
The paper looks at completely exempting those who earn less than €12,000 a year, or alternatively those who earn less than €15,000 a year, from the property payments.
The study advocates having tapered reliefs from the tax for those earning a little over these amounts. It admits this would discourage people from giving up welfare payments.
According to the paper, the introduction of a property tax could be made more equitable if stamp duty payments were treated as a pre-payment of property tax and homeowners were given a waiver from property tax until this pre-payment had been fully used up.
Treating stamp duty as a pre-payment of tax would mean a family that paid €15,500 when they bought in 2007 would not make a property tax payment for up to 15 years.

Kinetic^

I think people's issue with this is the mis-management of the property market by FF. Brian Cowen should never have made alterations to the stamp duty, all it did was prolong the inevitable. Had it stayed the way it was, we may be on the other side of a recession or close to it. Now they want extra money to fund the banks or unvouched expenses for an over subscribed government.


I've no issue paying tax, as long as the PS is somewhat efficient and value for money.

ISAW

Im beginning to wonder about the bona fides of this forum.
It seems replies are either orchestrated or knee jerk reactions to media.
Cant you set the agenda rather than follow it?
It is rare I start any thread.
I started one yesterday at 1pm on property tax.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056085683

So far there are no replies!
I was going to bump it for lack of interest.
This one then had 30 replies in as many minutes!

Where were you all yesterday?

Can a mod please merge my earlier thread?

Welease

Caoimhín wrote: »

It should be on a per square foot basis, like in the UK. The OS already have the square footage of almost every house and property in the country.

Just to clarify.. the UK system is not based on square footage.. It's based on a house value that was determined in 1991/1993, and that value determines which Band the house is placed in.. Those bands have remained static since, but the tax has risen as councils have required more money..

Our last house in the UK was sold for £250K, but was still in Band D (iirc) which is 68K to 88K...

motherriley

I live a small one bed flat in the UK and my council tax is £75 a month and that is with discount for being on my own.

I feel though that the poll tax was fairer as everyone in a household would be making a contribution of the services.

If one person live on their own in a one or 2 bed home they would pay the seame as a household of where there would be 3 or working adults. All the residents of a house would be using the sevices therefore all residents should contribute towards their use of the services.

ISAW

okay my original thread was about property tax not only residential property!

For example LAND tax. You put a tax on all land. even farming land. If a farmer or whoever owns the property is below a certain income he doesn't pay it.

Foir residential property you value the house and they pay a percentage on a sliding scale with higher valuations paying higher percentages. the effect of this is to keep house prioces down for average houses. this is what they do in France.

On residential property it could be like this:
If you have a mortgage the amount left to be paid is subtracted before you pay the tax. Obviously if you are in negative equity you wont be paying the tax. if you have no mortgage at all you pay full tax.

You could also link the rate with the region. Dublin paying higher for example. It is quit a simple way to bring about decentralisation. You cut away public sector "bonusw" pay but by moving out of Dublin they pay less tax and get a "bonus" that way.

As for non residential tax you tax land in the manner gioven in my post yesterday. If it rezoned then you tax away the benefit the speculator gets. In my example dont forget France has lots of land and is the biggest country in the EU, so Ireland might have higher taxes for even lesser revaluations on rezoning e.g. a 50% tax if the land increases by ten times in value. that is on the rezoning but you could also have an annual tax say 2.5 to 5 per cent. This means land banks devalue in 20 to 40 years.

ISAW

motherriley wrote: »

I live a small one bed flat in the UK and my council tax is £75 a year and that is with discount for being on my own.

I feel though that the poll tax was fairer as everyone in a household would be making a contribution of the services.

If one person live on their own in a one or 2 bed home they would pay the seame as a household of where there would be 3 or working adults. All the residents of a house would be using the sevices therefore all residents should contribute towards their use of the services.

Poll tax was criticised on the problems arising from "form each the same" . You see there probably is an argument that everyone pays a minimum. But what about after that? Why should a Lord in a large manor on an Estate pay the same as an unemployed professional on the dole? Surely there should be ways to get at the extra wealth and tax it?

sarumite

Caoimhín wrote: »

Well no matter what way tax is raised, we simply can not keep expecting Scandinavian style social services with low tax rates.

I had to move from Galway to Sweden....Ireland is far off scandinavian style social services even before this mess. Though the cost of living here is a lot higher, the taxes are definitely higher and the PS pay is far lower than Ireland. If we did want a scandinavian style social services it would require a complete overhaul of taxes as well spending.

Zynks

Caoimhín wrote: »

Well no matter what way tax is raised, we simply can not keep expecting Scandinavian style social services with low tax rates.

I trust you haven't been to Scandinavia (?)

dan_d

They're talking about it on this morning's radio news, as the ESRI have recommended implementing it - estimating around 80eur a month.(960 eur a yr - round up to 1000eur).

The argument of the ESRI is that if you raise income taxes you strangle spending, but something like a property tax won't. I don't really understand this statement, as it's still more money out of your pay packet that you have to budget for.

I still maintain that if you paid stamp duty you should not have to pay this (I did not pay SD). And as for water taxes - well, I got drenched walking around the side of my house this morning. I will not pay water taxes to fund the PS wage bill, in a country where it rains (heavily) at least 10 months of the year. I will pay them if they are ring fenced by each council for improvements to the water network ONLY.But, of course we won't get a guarantee like that.

Max Power1

Look lads (and ladies) its relatively simple. The extra income needs to be raised from somewhere. We will be paying it anyway, be it in the form of property tax, water charges, or some other form of tax increase. The requisite public income needs to come from somewhere guys!

I will add however, if its the €1000 per annum rate, and it is not charged to people on the dole, it will no longer be worth my while financially to keep going to work. Its for this reason that it is essential that the tax if introduced, is introduced in a fair manner.

johnboy_123

dan_d wrote: »

They're talking about it on this morning's radio news, as the ESRI have recommended implementing it - estimating around 80eur a month.(960 eur a yr - round up to 1000eur).

The argument of the ESRI is that if you raise income taxes you strangle spending, but something like a property tax won't. I don't really understand this statement, as it's still more money out of your pay packet that you have to budget for.

I still maintain that if you paid stamp duty you should not have to pay this (I did not pay SD). And as for water taxes - well, I got drenched walking around the side of my house this morning. I will not pay water taxes to fund the PS wage bill, in a country where it rains (heavily) at least 10 months of the year. I will pay them if they are ring fenced by each council for improvements to the water network ONLY.But, of course we won't get a guarantee like that.

Well that argument doesnt hold water...Once again the middle class working man will get the kick in the bo11ox from this. People on the scratch dont have to pay and people who are wealthy well it will be water off a ducks back..This is not far no matter how its implemented.

The average householder is in neg equity and sure the % of the house we own in that situation is in the minus figures..So we dont actually own these houses yet and it states in the mortgage dead that the buy doesnt own hte house until the last payment. I am sure if this is brought in there could be a legal challenge.

I mean as I say the average house holder already has been cut in wage, increase in tax, seen interest rates jump up..Where do they expect people to get this cash from. This will put pressure on an already unsteady section of society. I dont think its a runner. It will cost billions to implement properly.

Anyway how the fcukin ersi can propose this whilst the CPA is still in operation is any guess...

gandalf

I see a need for property tax but I agree with dan_d if property tax is being implemented we need to see real reform of PS costs & services and real tangible savings in those areas as well. The Croke Park agreement is over six months old and I for one have not seen any real progress at all from them to address the cost issues, if anything it seems like business as usual.

I also see a problem when interest rates do start to rise. An awful lot of people are at the pin of the collar at the moment another couple of points on interest rates and they will be defaulting. Add to this water charges as well then we have an oncoming perfect storm of default for a large number of mortgage holders. I wouldn't be surprised to see the government scraping mortgage relief as well.

One big question that I have from this whole debate is why should property owners be the only ones affected? People renting should also pay a residential tax like the UK Poll tax as well. They use the same services as us mortgaged property owners what gives them the right to be exempt from a residential tax?

With regard to Water Tax they had better ring fence those funds for update of the water delivery service and ensure that it is upgraded in a timely fashion. Unfortunately I am a cynic and I believe its just another way to shaft people into paying more tax with another label.

motherriley

ISAW wrote: »

Poll tax was criticised on the problems arising from "form each the same" . You see there probably is an argument that everyone pays a minimum. But what about after that? Why should a Lord in a large manor on an Estate pay the same as an unemployed professional on the dole? Surely there should be ways to get at the extra wealth and tax it?

Sorry I put £75 a year instead of £75 a month. I have changed it. I totally agree there should be a way of making a Lord in a large mansion should pay more and I think they do but these rich people have the means of ;paying for creative accounts to get them off paying as little as possible by way of tax.

In the UK there has been a lot of re-banding because of the discrepancies with the banding that was done by the council. The council tax has been frozen and the way the government has done this was to cut 50% of jobs in the public section.

Also there was such a black hole in the public sectors pensions purse that they were forced to make these redundances. Council tax payers in the UK were also paying for the public section pensions and I think the last time I checked this it was about £300 of everyone council tax

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/mortgages/free-house-prices


http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/council-tax-bands-change

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1296373/Town-halls--5bn-pensions-thats-quarter-council-tax.html

http://www.threerivers.gov.uk/Default.aspx/Web/WhatpercentageofmyCouncilTaxgoestowardsLocalGovernmentpensions

Sleepy

Certainly a necessary tax imho.

BlaasForRafa

szjon wrote: »

You had the good, time to pay the piper lads and lasses, now tighten those belts and stop whining will ya!

If phrases like "beards" and "tea-baggers" can be banned on this forum then it is damn time that **** like this "you've had the good times" needs to be cut out. It is the absolute laziest form of argument on these economic and political threads because not everyone had it good, not everyone bought second houses or got a 100% mortgage or flew away on 2/3 holidays a year or whatever is the measure of "having it good".

During the "boom" years most people actually had it the same as they had it before the "boom", just getting along, doing their jobs and trying to pay the bills, not living like they were f*****g Croesus.

johnboy_123

Sleepy wrote: »

Certainly a necessary tax imho.

How is it necessary...thats sh1te I paid my tax of fcuking 21% stamp duty of the house...I dont own this house till the last payment as stated in the deed, its in neg equity which means the money I have paid off over the last 5 years or so doesnt even get a % of the house with regards to what it is worth. So how can you expect and I would say I am indicitive of at least 100k people in the same situation. How can the gov expect me to pay a tax on sometime I technically dont own, I actually have a negitive % paid off as the house is worth say 200k and I have a mortgage of 250k..How is it fair to tax in that circumstance...You can say what you want about the students, OAP...If this comes in there will be a fcuking sh1tstorm, especially with the CPA still standing..

The gov needs to stop all tax breaks and stealth taxes and use income and tax that or what remains after paying the bills etc. Its so unfair that the middle class working man gets this kick in the balls again.

mrgaa1

johnboy_123 wrote: »

How is it necessary...thats sh1te I paid my tax of fcuking 21% stamp duty of the house...I dont own this house till the last payment as stated in the deed, its in neg equity which means the money I have paid off over the last 5 years or so doesnt even get a % of the house with regards to what it is worth. So how can you expect and I would say I am indicitive of at least 100k people in the same situation. How can the gov expect me to pay a tax on sometime I technically dont own, I actually have a negitive % paid off as the house is worth say 200k and I have a mortgage of 250k..How is it fair to tax in that circumstance...You can say what you want about the students, OAP...If this comes in there will be a fcuking sh1tstorm, especially with the CPA still standing..

The gov needs to stop all tax breaks and stealth taxes and use income and tax that or what remains after paying the bills etc. Its so unfair that the middle class working man gets this kick in the balls again.

I think they are saying that if you paid stamp duty that you would be exempt for 'x' number of years until the amount of stamp duty you paid has covered any proposed property tax.

In relation to people renting a property - the owner should be ultimately responsible for paying the tax so expect a rent rise all round to cover this new tax.

Any word on commercial property tax at the moment - all discussions and leaks via the press are based on domestic property.

johnboy_123

mrgaa1 wrote: »

I think they are saying that if you paid stamp duty that you would be exempt for 'x' number of years until the amount of stamp duty you paid has covered any proposed property tax.

In relation to people renting a property - the owner should be ultimately responsible for paying the tax so expect a rent rise all round to cover this new tax.

Any word on commercial property tax at the moment - all discussions and leaks via the press are based on domestic property.

Its still a second tax on something ...and as good as your point is still doesnt cover the fact of neg equity or the fact that the buyer doesnt own the home until the very last payment... As stated I think there could be a legal challenge for people in neg equity that the tax should be paid by the bank as they effectively own the property?

Kintarō Hattori

Were the government fair and just then perhaps I wouldn't mind paying extra charges. However when in the midst of the worst recession on record they go and unamiously award themselves a payrise it just seems desperately unfair that we need to pay significant amounts of money to cover the mistakes that were made by the builders, government and yes the people.

It makes me bitter as during the height of the boom I didn't buy anywhere, I didn't go on fancy holidays and I didn't get myself in the depth. Now that we're out of the boom I'm in a position to buy but I'm worried whether I should ot not.

It just seems so unfair but yeah hey that's life and get over it eh.

ISAW

motherriley wrote: »

Sorry I put £75 a year instead of £75 a month. I have changed it. I totally agree there should be a way of making a Lord in a large mansion should pay more and I think they do but these rich people have the means of ;paying for creative accounts to get them off paying as little as possible by way of tax.

i disagree. If they have hundreds of million or even tens of millions they can live in another country and pay lower tax there. But we can tax whatever they have in Ireland. this will mean they move their assets offshore i.e. we get rid of those who don't want to pay their tax here. It happened with some rockstars and the like who moved when the artists allowance was changed. We can do without them. Others stayed and paid their tax. They deserve the praise they get for supporting Ireland and wanting to live here.

If they have millions they are paying property tax abroad with a second house. they can afford to pay it here. I am only offering ball park figures but in the region of say thousands for a house worth hundreds of thousands. when the house gets to say 800,000 plus you increase that to say near 1 per cent 8k a year and when you get to a million 1.5 say 15k a year a five million euro house or property could be paying 50-100k a year.

Now there are land banks worth hundreds of millions or even billions. The people who quit Ireland to dodge tax own them. They also own houses here and pay nothing on them. so tax them! We could get say 100- 500 million a year. either that or they will SELL the land at a low price to someone who must pay the tax or develop it! And they cant sell the land to themselves or contrive to sell at less than they bought it to avoid tax so you bring in rules about that.

One good element in property is the glut of shop and office space.
There are shops quitting Grafton Street due to rack renting. If they quit and the property owner is taxed for vacant buildings he will lower the rent no problem, and people renting will see the difference in rent and the tax he pays and prices to tthe consumer in the shop will be lower. we could offer regional or suburban tax relief and people will rent the shop space in suburbs or towns.

In the UK there has been a lot of re-banding because of the discrepancies with the banding that was done by the council. The council tax has been frozen and the way the government has done this was to cut 50% of jobs in the public section.

Another thing in France is you can't up rents! We have just got around to allowing decrease in rents. If you rent a house (long term) in France you pay the going rate for the area plus or minus say ten per cent.'t have that problem since charlie Mc Creevy topped up pension funds. But Labour now want to tap into this money to pay off the deficit.

Also there was such a black hole in the public sectors pensions purse that they were forced to make these redundances. Council tax payers in the UK were also paying for the public section pensions and I think the last time I checked this it was about £300 of everyone council tax

Ironically we don't have such a problem due to Mc Creevy of all people . The PD in all but name ( cut social welfare ) Mc Creevy saving pension money and the pretend to be left Labour ( free market profit on land deals to the state) wanting to raid pension funds.

ISAW

johnboy_123 wrote: »

How is it necessary...t

Read what I wrote! subtract what you owe on your mortgage from the value of your house. ( when you bought it) If you are in negative equity then you don't pay any property tax. when what is left on your mortgage outstrips the value of house you start to pay property tax. If you are in negative equity you won't pay it. then you will pay tax on the current value of the house. If your income is below say 10,000 a year you don't pay it. after that you start to pay on a sliding scale.