Views of Irish membership of the EU. Positive or negative?

Rebelheart

Just getting a raincheck on this. I'm passionately pro-EU, largely because I believe Ireland has been far too anglocentric in recent generations. For me, the EU breaks that up and instils a much healthier, open worldview in Irish society. I admire Scandinavian environmental policies, Swiss local government, French health policies, and so forth.

I sincerely believe that if Ireland were, as some correspondents in the British newspapers in Ireland are saying, to leave the EU it would be disastrous for Ireland. The thought of our country being at the mercy of Britain again is unconscionable to me, what I want from Ireland, and the sort of Ireland I want my children to live in.

Yet, still I see posters who are supposedly Irish nationalists, giving out about EU control in Ireland. Given that our native rulers have been incompetent, why are these posters using the EU as scapegoats? What is their alternative? Do they oppose the EU simply because they're reading British "Oirish" tabloids? Surely, they aren't that gullible?

Anyway, overall do you support Irish membership of the European Union, or oppose Irish membership of the EU?

Donkey Oaty

Rebelheart wrote: »

I sincerely believe that if Ireland were, as some correspondents in the British newspapers in Ireland are saying, to leave the EU it would be disastrous for Ireland. The thought of our country being at the mercy of Britain again is unconscionable to me, what I want from Ireland, and the sort of Ireland I want my children to live in.

Surely leaving the EU would mean fewer ties with Britain, not more?

Ghost Estate

Ireland's rightful place and future belongs with Britain, not the EU.

The EU makes too many new directives.

One set of muppets who are completely out of touch with reality telling us what we can't do is already more than enough

ejmaztec

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

Rebelheart wrote: »

Just getting a raincheck on this. I'm passionately pro-EU, largely because I believe Ireland has been far too anglocentric in recent generations. For me, the EU breaks that up and instils a much healthier, open worldview in Irish society. I admire Scandinavian environmental policies, Swiss local government, French health policies, and so forth.

I sincerely believe that if Ireland were, as some correspondents in the British newspapers in Ireland are saying, to leave the EU it would be disastrous for Ireland. The thought of our country being at the mercy of Britain again is unconscionable to me, what I want from Ireland, and the sort of Ireland I want my children to live in.

Yet, still I see posters who are supposedly Irish nationalists, giving out about EU control in Ireland. Given that our native rulers have been incompetent, why are these posters using the EU as scapegoats? What is their alternative? Do they oppose the EU simply because they're reading British "Oirish" tabloids? Surely, they aren't that gullible?

Anyway, overall do you support Irish membership of the European Union, or oppose Irish membership of the EU?

For Ireland, the EU's the only game in town, as it wouldn't stand a hope in hell's chance of making any progress without it,

The only downside from your point of view of course, is that the UK's in it as well.:P

Rebelheart

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Surely leaving the EU would mean fewer ties with Britain, not more?

I would imagine not. As a small country, leaving the EU would enthusiastically be seen by the "British Isles" europhobic brigade as some pseudo-historical "reunion" of Ireland with Britain along an Anglo-American framework.

OhThePenguin

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

I'd welcome more involvement from the EU in Irish politics to be honest.

Our own politicians are clearly unable to run the country.

Rebelheart

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

ejmaztec wrote: »

The only downside from your point of view of course, is that the UK's in it as well.

Well, it's not really "in it", is it. It's more there, bitterly, on the sidelines wallowing in resentment at the fact that Germany is the greatest power in Europe and, after Germany, the French are the ones calling the shots in the EU.

squod

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

If Europe is going to prosper the muppets have to go.

ejmaztec

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

Rebelheart wrote: »

Well, it's not really "in it", is it. It's more there, bitterly, on the sidelines wallowing in resentment at the fact that Germany is the greatest power in Europe and, after Germany, the French are the ones calling the shots in the EU.

I think the UK only joined because the French didn't really want them to, and has spent the last 40 years moaning about being a member.

sdanseo

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

Last choice, wtf? Pmcmahon hope to god you're voting for the laugh of it

Donkey Oaty

Rebelheart wrote: »

I would imagine not. As a small country, leaving the EU would enthusiastically be seen by the "British Isles" europhobic brigade as some pseudo-historical "reunion" of Ireland with Britain along an Anglo-American framework.

I've never heard of these people and suspect that they exist only within the confines of your own head.

biko

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

For Ireland the EU has been a blessing in my opinion.

Max Power1

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

So long as they steer well clear of our low corporation tax rates I am pro EU.

galwayrush

Despite 90 years of gombeen politics and an iron fist like church involvement ,the EU dragged us into a more modern and better educated era.
Although the last few Governments in recent years are doing their best to try and bring us back into those bad old days, the EU will hopefully manage to stop them in their incompetent tracks and save us from ourselves.

tolosenc

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

Rebelheart wrote: »

"British Isles" europhobic brigade

I aknowledge the existence of the British Isles, much in the same way I do the Aran Islands, but I'm not europhobic. Where does this leave me?

dlofnep

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

The EU is overall positive, but there are a few catches. Our sovereignty is diluted as a result of our membership - That is undeniable. I think the European project as a whole is a positive thing. It is stable for the region.

Aswerty

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

Ireland has done very well by the EU and I don't think just because we've hit a dodgy patch that we should bale.

KINGVictor

Ireland's membership of the EU has both its positives and disadvantages ..I guess like most endeavours in life.

Ireland has benefitted immensely from the EU's structural funds arguably more than any other member state (per capita) , some of the progressive policies/directives from Brussels have also impacted positively on the country.

However, the major downside (for me) is the transfer of macroeconomic soveriegnty to the EU in the form of the ECB- as such The central bank of Ireland is just another office in the department of Finance with no real influence/ power to make country-specific policies i.e. Interest rates etc.

Like other posters have also mentioned, some of the directives from the EU are just convoluted and are not suitable holistically but are usually formulated and adopted by the Franco-German axis to suit their own agenda.

Specifically, inresponce to your question, I will "lazily" answer with another question especially in light of the current economic climate- What is the alternative?

Cheap Thrills!

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

positive! all hail the mighty Emperor Rehn !!!! :cool:


Death to the 2 Brians!!!!! :mad:

SEPT 23 1989

Put a gun to their heads

threaten to collapse the Euro by default on debt

TheSpecialOne

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

Positive considering they have given us billions to upgrade the country, but i hated the way Europe disregarded Lisbon 1 and Scared many people into voting yes (Btw i support Lisbon but they should have listened to the peoples vote and not just disregard it)

raymann

Rebelheart wrote: »

I would imagine not. As a small country, leaving the EU would enthusiastically be seen by the "British Isles" europhobic brigade as some pseudo-historical "reunion" of Ireland with Britain along an Anglo-American framework.

having lived most of my life in the uk i can tell you that this simply isnt the case. the vast vast majority want nothing at all to do with ireland on a political level.

your opposite numbers over in the uk are a dying species as well, just as the ultra hard line anything but british seem to be dwindling over in Ireland.

basically, people are moving on. as for the european question i would answer it without addressing your boring repetitive anti uk agenda, because if we do go it alone it will be just that. alone.

forget anybody coming to save us. they have their own problems and absolutely zero interest in ours.

kincsem

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

The country has modernised since we joined. Great infrastructure, single currency, hi-tech manufacturing. All this is because of the single European market imo.

However, Dail Eireann is still stuck in the ass and cart days.

raymann

kincsem wrote: »

The country has modernised since we joined. Great infrastructure, single currency, hi-tech manufacturing. All this is because of the single European market imo.

However, Dail Eireann is still stuck in the ass and cart days.

the thing that really galls me is we have blown a once in 100 years opportunity to create a singapore of europe. it really could have been something.

the few roads and very slight health and education upgrades dont seem nearly enough to show for the problems we are now saddled with.

PeterIanStaker

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

Membership of the EU is a good thing. Its gotten us out of the religious and social dark ages that some are desperate to drag us back to.

Rejoining England is an outdated idea, just like a UI is outdated. Besides, despite what some Myersian fantasists may think, they wouldnt want Ireland back, they're ploughing money into NI to keep it on life support as it is.

Coriolanus

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

Overall positive. I'm a bit of a federalist myself and think we could do with a bit more integration tbh.
Anyone who thinks Ireland can weather the fallow years to come without the EU is dreaming in cloud cuckoo land.

charlemont

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

raymann wrote: »

the thing that really galls me is we have blown a once in 100 years opportunity to create a singapore of europe. it really could have been something.

the few roads and very slight health and education upgrades dont seem nearly enough to show for the problems we are now saddled with.

Our people just continued on with the same shower of gombeen men, if it wasnt for the original EEC the country would still be very backward..

Theres a saying "people get the politicians they deserve" .

citizen_p

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

ireland has never really been a major player in the EU , main reason credited to the fact we are an Island nation, as is the Uk but they got heavily involved in european wars ehhhhh.. politics.
and of course at one time or another invaded half of the world.


anything that brings us closer to europe is good imo.

raymann

Nevore wrote: »

Overall positive. I'm a bit of a federalist myself and think we could do with a bit more integration tbh.
Anyone who thinks Ireland can weather the fallow years to come without the EU is dreaming in cloud cuckoo land.

the problem for me is the solution that would be best for the irish people is an orderly default. it wouldnt be without its problems, in fact it would be very very tough indeed, but at the end of it some level of competition could be restored to start to grow our way out of this.

the way we are currently planning on doing it has, i believe, never been done on this scale before.

to try and deflate your way out of such a huge overhang, both public and private, in the face of what i believe will be a global slow down in 2011-12 seems like a terrible burden for a people to face.

i live in france now, i was surprised at peoples reaction to our refusal to accept lisbon even a year later when i got here. do not think there will be any sentimentality towards the irish when they are addressing our corporation tax.

i think the rules changed for us in the 00's. someone said to me that 'we lost the run of ourselves'. it seems to me we are in big big trouble. our relationship with the uk, that is less troubled than it has been for generations, actually seems one of our strengths rather that a weakness.

ICE HOUSE

Ireland's rightful place and future belongs with Britain, not the EU.

Withdrawin is not an option now its far too late. Damage has been done long time ago. This day has been comming for years when people were going to really see the bigger picture of the issues involved with being part of Europe. Too late people !!!

Misanthrope

Ireland's rightful place and future belongs with Britain, not the EU.

We need to cut all apron strings and learn to stand on our own two feet as a nation.As it stands we are a de facto province,some would argue that we are a de jure province also.

How do the doomsayers explain the fortunes of Switzerland as a land-locked,mountainous country that stays out of the EU with no ill effect.It hasn't affected their trade one bit.How is it with their finance and banking industry, that they are not in economic ruin like us?

They must be doing something right.Why can't we model ourselves on prosperous independent nations instead of cowering under the wings of megalomaniacs?

OPENROAD

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Membership of the EU is a good thing. Its gotten us out of the religious and social dark ages that some are desperate to drag us back to.

Rejoining England is an outdated idea, just like a UI is outdated. Besides, despite what some Myersian fantasists may think, they wouldnt want Ireland back, they're ploughing money into NI to keep it on life support as it is.

Its also an AH poll option rather than a realistic option.

Ireland in Europe good and also good for Ireland is the fact that the UK is in Europe been our major trading partner.


Our problems now are not down to our membership of Europe.

Dyr

Ireland's rightful place and future belongs with Britain, not the EU.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

raymann

Mousey- wrote: »

ireland has never really been a major player in the EU , main reason credited to the fact we are an Island nation, as is the Uk but they got heavily involved in european wars ehhhhh.. politics.
and of course at one time or another invaded half of the world.


anything that brings us closer to europe is good imo.

the uk has a poulation of 65 million. that is why they are a european force. Ireland has a shrinking population of what 4.2 million? thats why we are not.

ireland population means that realistically our influence both culturally and politically was really an overachievement by us as a nation. i think we can claim to have achieved similar feats in both the us and australia, something which i am very proud of.

morgan kelly adressed the problem of mass defaults of personal mortgages, and what it means to the irish economy. i read half of it.

the question for me is not wether we want to be a productive part of a functioning european project, but if it is possible to do so?

do we even have the option?

Sam Vimes

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

TheSpecialOne wrote: »

Positive considering they have given us billions to upgrade the country, but i hated the way Europe disregarded Lisbon 1 and Scared many people into voting yes (Btw i support Lisbon but they should have listened to the peoples vote and not just disregard it)

Um, they didn't disregard it. If they disregarded it we wouldn't have voted again and it would have just gone through. But equally they didn't want to just throw a document they'd spent years working on in the bin so surveys were done to find out why we voted no to see if there was anything that could be done to change our minds.

The problem was that when the surveys were done it turned out that the reasons we voted no were not actually in the treaty and it became clear that we had fallen for the lies of extremists. So we got a number of legally binding guarantees that stuff that the liars had told us was in the treaty actually wasn't and asked us if we had changed our minds now that this had been clarified.

And we had. I see no problem with that was done. If people had actually had good treaty based reasons for voting no the first time then those reasons would still have stood and the second result would have been another no. So clearly they didn't

PeterIanStaker

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

OPENROAD wrote: »

Its also an AH poll option rather than a realistic option.

I know that, but I take every opportunity to slag people who think it is.

OPENROAD wrote: »

Our problems now are not down to our membership of Europe

I know exactly where our problems are - No 2 Kildare St to be exact. But even they are not stupid enough to leave the EU, I know I said NI was on life support from the UK, well we're heading to the life support stage, albeit from Brussels, becaue of the jobs for the boys attitude FF have.

PeterIanStaker

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

Misanthrope wrote: »

How do the doomsayers explain the fortunes of Switzerland as a land-locked,mountainous country that stays out of the EU with no ill effect.It hasn't affected their trade one bit.How is it with their finance and banking industry, that they are not in economic ruin like us?

Nazi gold?

*sorry*

KINGVictor

Misanthrope wrote: »

We need to cut all apron strings and learn to stand on our own two feet as a nation.As it stands we are a de facto province,some would argue that we are a de jure province also.

How do the doomsayers explain the fortunes of Switzerland as a land-locked,mountainous country that stays out of the EU with no ill effect.It hasn't affected their trade one bit.How is it with their finance and banking industry, that they are not in economic ruin like us?

They must be doing something right.Why can't we model ourselves on prosperous independent nations instead of cowering under the wings of megalomaniacs?

I agree to some degree but your comparison to Switzerland is a bit simplistic tbh

Switzerland has a history of non-alignment in terms of politics and economics that has favoured her immensely, essentially the swiss stay out of other peoples business and they expect that countries stay of theirs.

That will explain the secrecy doctrine of their financial system which has benefitted the country hugely...dont be surprised that lots of politicians in Ireland and indeed the EU has accounts in Switzerland that no one will ever know about...such is the nature of their financial operations.

It is possible that Ireland remains a member of the EU and adopt forward thinking strategies to create a comparative advantage for herself, for instance ,analysts have questioned why Dublin or Cork cannot replicate the success of Rotterdam as a logistic hub in Europe?

It is very funny that every parcel sent to Ireland outside of Europe has to go the Netherlands before being rerouted here...doesnt make sense when the country has (had) all the resources to transform Dublin to the Hong kong of Europe ( in terms of logistics)...

OPENROAD

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

KINGVictor wrote: »

I agree to some degree but your comparison to Switzerland is a bit simplistic tbh

Switzerland has a history of non-alignment in terms of politics and economics that has favoured her immensely, essentially the swiss stay out of other peoples business and they expect that countries stay of theirs.

That will explain the secrecy doctrine of their financial system which has benefitted the country hugely...dont be surprised that lots of politicians in Ireland and indeed the EU has accounts in Switzerland that no one will ever know about...such is the nature of their financial operations.

It is possible that Ireland remains a member of the EU and adopt forward thinking strategies to create a comparative advantage for herself, for instance ,analysts have questioned why Dublin or Cork cannot replicate the success of Rotterdam as a logistic hub in Europe?

It is very funny that every parcel sent to Ireland outside of Europe has to go the Netherlands before being rerouted here...doesnt make sense when the country has (had) all the resources to transform Dublin to the Hong kong of Europe ( in terms of logistics)...

In order for something like this to happen, do we not have to accept that as a country we are still an expensive place to do business,and so will have to make serious adjustments to rectify this. Also does being an Island not put us at a slight disadvantage?

KINGVictor

OPENROAD wrote: »

In order for something like this to happen, do we not have to accept that as a country we are still an expensive place to do business,and so will have to make serious adjustments to rectify this. Also does being an Island not put us at a slight disadvantage?

I agree that the cost of doing business in Ireland is expensive and it is has to be corrected but realistically that has not stopped multinationals setting up here...(Interestingly they are setting up currently in Ireland even with the gloomy economic forecasts...link up to IDA feeds), basically because they know that they will still make profits notwithstanding of the apparent constraints.

On paper, being an Island will seem as an issue but if we take examples of the Japanese where challenges are used as opportunities , then that will not be an excuse...

Ireland , traditionally is an English speaking country with a well educated workforce and Dublin for e.g. has the infrastructure to accommodate the complexities of a logistic centre i.e it has relatively sophisticated airport connections to most European countries, well planned road and distribution networks etc, the country also the technological capacity and readiness to take on such an endeavour, Ireland has a fairly sizeable amount of bilingual workers to facilitate coherent operations..

I know it may all sound theoretical, but I honestly believe that it is possible.

Athlone_Bhoy

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Um, they didn't disregard it. If they disregarded it we wouldn't have voted again and it would have just gone through. But equally they didn't want to just throw a document they'd spent years working on in the bin so surveys were done to find out why we voted no to see if there was anything that could be done to change our minds.

No it wouldn't.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

The problem was that when the surveys were done it turned out that the reasons we voted no were not actually in the treaty and it became clear that we had fallen for the lies of extremists. So we got a number of legally binding guarantees that stuff that the liars had told us was in the treaty actually wasn't and asked us if we had changed our minds now that this had been clarified.

And we had. I see no problem with that was done. If people had actually had good treaty based reasons for voting no the first time then those reasons would still have stood and the second result would have been another no. So clearly they didn't

The same people that said it was the only way to recover from the reccession? That promised if passed it would create more jobs?

Ireland should have played hard ball with the EU. An example the rates we pay for money Ireland if they had balls they would have worked out a better deal.

Sam Vimes

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

Athlone_Bhoy wrote: »

No it wouldn't.

Well no it wouldn't because that would have been illegal. The fact remains the vote was not disregarded

Athlone_Bhoy wrote: »

The same people that said it was the only way to recover from the reccession? That promised if passed it would create more jobs?

What's your point? If someone had a legitimate objection to the treaty then no promise of jobs should have changed their mind. The fact that so many changed their vote shows that they had no legitimate reason to vote no in the first place.

Unfortunately voting on a treaty was never going to fix the worst recession in our country's history in 12 months but I can tell you that trying (and inevitably failing) to do this:

Athlone_Bhoy wrote: »

Ireland should have played hard ball with the EU. An example the rates we pay for money Ireland if they had balls they would have worked out a better deal.

would have made the situation a hell of a lot worse. The rates we pay for money are not set by the people who wrote the treaty.

Athlone_Bhoy

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Well no it wouldn't because that would have been illegal. The fact remains the vote was not disregarded

Well then why say it would have been just passed through when it couldn't have? If they could have done that there wouldn't have be a vote on it!

Sam Vimes wrote: »

What's your point? If someone had a legitimate objection to the treaty then no promise of jobs should have changed their mind. The fact that so many changed their vote shows that they had no legitimate reason to vote no in the first place.

Unfortunately voting on a treaty was never going to fix the worst recession in our country's history in 12 months but I can tell you that trying (and inevitably failing) to do this:

People were losingteir jobs left, right and center and were told if they didn't vote yes we would be worse off. People were told it would be a cure of the reccession. Vote yes for recovery, vote yes for jobs. Well guess what they voted yes I do see much of a recovery or jobs. People were played but that's nothing new.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

would have made the situation a hell of a lot worse. The rates we pay for money are not set by the people who wrote the treaty.

I'm sure the EU leaders could have a nice word with the ECB. Ireland is ****ed, let's face it. They spend about 50% of GDP bailing out the banks. We may not go like Iceland but we're ****ed for a good few years. Like I said Ireland could have played hard ball. Would it have made things worse? I don't think so. Germany and France can play hard ball but not Ireland?

Faith+1

The EU is the most corrupt entity on this planet.

Ok Ireland , Yes or No on the Nice treaty? Eh No thanks, That's not the answer we wanted Ireland! Ok Ok yes. Good Boy.

Now Ireland, Yes or No on the Lisbon Treaty?? No again I'm afraid. Ireland don't make me be cross with you again! Ok Ok Yes. Good boy, here have a bone.

Sam Vimes

Overall, EU membership is bad for Ireland and we should withdraw

Athlone_Bhoy wrote: »

Well then why say it would have been just passed through when it couldn't have? If they could have done that there wouldn't have be a vote on it!

Because he said that the vote had been disregarded. the only thing that I would consider to be disregarding the vote would have been going ahead anyway and that didn't happen. Finding out why people voted no and seeing if their minds can be changed is not disregarding a vote.

Athlone_Bhoy wrote: »

People were losingteir jobs left, right and center and were told if they didn't vote yes we would be worse off. People were told it would be a cure of the reccession. Vote yes for recovery, vote yes for jobs. Well guess what they voted yes I do see much of a recovery or jobs. People were played but that's nothing new.

Yes there were posters saying yes to recovery and yes to jobs and imo our situation would have been a hell of a lot worse if we had voted no but do you honestly think anyone actually believed that a vote on a treaty would change the fact that we have a 20% deficit and have to bail out the banks? During the campaign I came across two categories of people, those who saw it as "voting yes is better for jobs and recovery for voting no but will not end the recession on its own" and those who called it an outright lie. I never came across a single person who said they were going into the voting booth with the clear intention of ending the recession simply by voting yes. Did you?

Athlone_Bhoy wrote: »

I'm sure the EU leaders could have a nice word with the ECB. Ireland is ****ed, let's face it. They spend about 50% of GDP bailing out the banks. We may not go like Iceland but we're ****ed for a good few years. Like I said Ireland could have played hard ball. Would it have made things worse? I don't think so. Germany and France can play hard ball but not Ireland?

Well yes I suppose the politicians in our tiny unimportant country that's been draining EU resources for 37 years and stalling progress for no good reason whenever we feel like it and enticing foreign companies to set up here so we can skim a bit off whatever they sell to the rest of Europe could have gone to the people who were about to lend us billions to bail out our banks and said "yes we know that you've spend five years and millions on this treaty and we know that we were involved with writing it every step of the way but now we're going to hold the treaty to ransom until you somehow get the bonds markets to give us a better rate on our lending" but there are three things:

1. It was never going to happen because a) the government would never have done it and b) there's no way the government could have guaranteed a yes vote if they did do it. How does someone who voted no because of say (bogus) neutrality concerns go to a yes because Brian Cowen got the EU to convince the markets to drop our interest rate
2. There is absolutely zero chance the EU would have given into our ransom demands even if the government could have guaranteed a yes vote
3. Behaving like such unadulterated cunts wold have made our situation a lot worse.

Athlone_Bhoy

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Because he said that the vote had been disregarded. the only thing that I would consider to be disregarding the vote would have been going ahead anyway and that didn't happen. Finding out why people voted no and seeing if their minds can be changed is not disregarding a vote.

It can't you just said yourself. It's disregard because you just keep voting until you get the answer you want.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Yes there were posters saying yes to recovery and yes to jobs and imo our situation would have been a hell of a lot worse if we had voted no but do you honestly think anyone actually believed that a vote on a treaty would change the fact that we have a 20% deficit and have to bail out the banks? During the campaign I came across two categories of people, those who saw it as "voting yes is better for jobs and recovery for voting no but will not end the recession on its own" and those who called it an outright lie. I never came across a single person who said they were going into the voting booth with the clear intention of ending the recession simply by voting yes. Did you?

Yes I did honestly meet people who were convinced if they voted yes everything would magically change. I know big idiots who lisgten to lies. I think the figure is more like 30%.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Well yes I suppose the politicians in our tiny unimportant country that's been draining EU resources for 37 years and stalling progress for no good reason whenever we feel like it and enticing foreign companies to set up here so we can skim a bit off whatever they sell to the rest of Europe could have gone to the people who were about to lend us billions to bail out our banks and said "yes we know that you've spend five years and millions on this treaty and we know that we were involved with writing it every step of the way but now we're going to hold the treaty to ransom until you somehow get the bonds markets to give us a better rate on our lending" but there are three things:

1. It was never going to happen because a) the government would never have done it and b) there's no way the government could have guaranteed a yes vote if they did do it. How does someone who voted no because of say (bogus) neutrality concerns go to a yes because Brian Cowen got the EU to convince the markets to drop our interest rate
2. There is absolutely zero chance the EU would have given into our ransom demands even if the government could have guaranteed a yes vote
3. Behaving like such unadulterated cunts wold have made our situation a lot worse.

Oh the great EU. It's great isn't it how people like Angela Merkel can cause mayhem. Telling the world to basically treat Irish bonds as the same as AIB bonds which isn't helping our problems while Germany's bonds are going along nicely.

I don't know why. Why did people give in to bogus hopes of jobs? You said it yourself it was all over the place yes to jobs, yes to Lisbon. People were fooled into believing it. Nothing changed from the first Lisbon so why was it people voted yes? It's because they were told lies.

Brussels will end up owning us I don't know anyone who can be happy about that. Fare enough our politicians aren't the best but at least their Irish. People like Merkel are after one thing making their own country better not the EU.

Ghost Estate

Ireland's rightful place and future belongs with Britain, not the EU.

raymann wrote: »

the thing that really galls me is we have blown a once in 100 years opportunity to create a singapore of europe. it really could have been something.

the few roads and very slight health and education upgrades dont seem nearly enough to show for the problems we are now saddled with.

Singapore is a crowded police state. I'd rather go back to the horse & cart tbh.

Misanthrope

Ireland's rightful place and future belongs with Britain, not the EU.

Our problems now are not down to our membership of Europe

Our inability to solve them is.

Misanthrope

Ireland's rightful place and future belongs with Britain, not the EU.

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Nazi gold?

*sorry*

That's secret though.It's not like they can just say 'Hello We'd like to purchase some of your Aran sweaters with this here Nazi bullion'

i_love_toast

Ireland's rightful place and future belongs with Britain, not the EU.

I think the EU is great but my problem is not with the EU itself but once again with our muppet leaders always trying to impress the EU by voting for EVERYTHING single law or point that the EU makes. If the EU said tomorrow that it is thinking of banning cough medicine, Ireland would be the first country to implement it without studying the facts. Ireland loves to try to impress the EU.

Earlier in the year when there was a mock vote to see if Turkey should be allowed to join the EU, Ireland immediately said yes of course and said it would love to see Turkey as a member. This was without even logically studying Turkey's human right records, health service, employment rights etc. Other countries however studied the facts and said that they dont think Turkey is quite ready yet. Ireland will never debate against any ideas that arise within the EU, it will always be a lap dog that will jump to various heights when the EU says so. That is my problem with Ireland and the EU.

Ghost Estate

Ireland's rightful place and future belongs with Britain, not the EU.

i_love_toast wrote: »

I think the EU is great but my problem is not with the EU itself but once again with our muppet leaders always trying to impress the EU by voting for EVERYTHING single law or point that the EU makes. If the EU said tomorrow that it is thinking of banning cough medicine, Ireland would be the first country to implement it without studying the facts. Ireland loves to try to impress the EU.

Earlier in the year when there was a mock vote to see if Turkey should be allowed to join the EU, Ireland immediately said yes of course and said it would love to see Turkey as a member. This was without even logically studying Turkey's human right records, health service, employment rights etc. Other countries however studied the facts and said that they dont think Turkey is quite ready yet. Ireland will never debate against any ideas that arise within the EU, it will always be a lap dog that will jump to various heights when the EU says so. That is my problem with Ireland and the EU.

Like with the NCT - The EU wants them to test brakes and emissions. Ireland makes a test that checks everything right down to the colour of the indicator lights (lest anyone thinks that blinking yoke on the side of the car is just a dodgy fallen off headlamp)


It seems like the result of an inferiority complex. Ireland shouting at the top of its low voice from the corner "hey lads we're really going to town on this new rule you've come up with!"