How are so many Non EU nationals working in Ireland?

bigpink

Im aware of the law that EU nationals can work/live within the EU but how are there so many many Aisans working in jobs in Ireland
There is a flood of taxi drivers and shop workers surely this isnt helping jobless irish people is it?

senordingdong

Because they will do work that Irish people turn their nose up at, and do it for a rate that Irish people, would turn their nose up at.

In one respect, it seems detrimental to the economy to allow so many more non EU nationals into the country to work, but on the other hand, it will seriously slow the economies recovery if these posts go un-manned becasue Irish people are too good for them.

Now, the aspect of non narionals sending a large portion of their wages home is another story, but I'm not certain how that impacts into this.

jon1981

I would say its partly because down to the FACT that Irish people wouldn't do the jobs the foreign nationals were doing during the boom years... working in mcdonalds, spar etc and its now Irish ppl are getting on their high horse when those jobs previously were not good enough now they are flocking to them in hundreds... and the reason they are still around is because of lot of these jobs were and are still low paying and required ...

Martron

i think people need to get it out of their heads that these jobs were not good enough for irish people.

there were more jobs than people back in the boom years ( although we still had unemployed ........we will always have an element of unemployed in boom years)

anyway people were using their skills and qualifications to get other jobs that were on on offer not that they did not turn their noses up at it.

like now the skilled jobs aree no longer around and people are going for any job. Its simple you will go for as high as you can get . you will not settle for 9 euro an hour if you can get 14 hour an hour. not that you were turning your nose up at it. just meant you could get more somewhere else.

statistics can be used to prove anything. just because there is a higher proportion of foreign nationals working these jobs does not mean irish people dont want them. It just means the irish had jobs else where.

now that our jobs have declined the foreign nationals have been able to retain their jobs. and its only really now that its becoming a bigger issue because " they took our jobs" i dont think they have taken any new jobs they just in the ones that have been in all along.

senordingdong

Martron wrote: »

anyway people were using their skills and qualifications to get other jobs that were on on offer not that they did not turn their noses up at it.
.

I said that in reference to all the people who refuse to come off of social welfare and take low paying jobs.

Martron

well i think you will find its a different story now.

peckerhead

How are so many Non EU nationals working in Ireland?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLni3wbndls

senordingdong

Martron wrote: »

well i think you will find its a different story now.

I really don't think it has changed too much with the current situation.

I agree that welfare is too generous, but at the same time, the necessities that people spend their welfare on are also very high.

Martron

well i think that the people on welfare have many problems.

1 as you have stated the is a lot of foreign nationals in the lower paid jobs that seem to still exist. But this does not mean that there is a load of irish sitting on the welfare system not awanting these jobs. ( not trying to be smart here) but what would you propose , fire the foreign nationals so we can have their jobs? what would happe to the foreign nationals then?

2 as you can see from the threads here although a lot of people dont agree with them there is a large uptake in the wpp . which is full time work for less than 200 quid a week.

3 the amount of debt people have during this recession is far more than the last recession and although thte welfare system maybe generous i would say in most cases its not enough to keep their houses and what not.

IngazZagni

I could also ask, how are so many Irish working outside the EU?

Drummerboy2

Just wondering is there still a constant flow of foreign workers entering Ireland. I see a huge queue every morning down on the quays at the Immigration Office. Perhaps they are reviewing their visas or whatever. Seems strange that they would want to come here under the current circumstances.

youcancallmeal

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

Seems strange that they would want to come here under the current circumstances.

Not strange at all, even in our darkest hours the quality of life here would still be far more favourable to say the likes of Pakistan, India, China, Africa etc

bigpink

Does Ireland have a skills shortage in shop workers,taxi drivers that they give out visas for?
I could understand for highly skilled shortages

How is there so many NON EU workers surely there is a law on entry?

senordingdong

Martron wrote: »

well i think that the people on welfare have many problems.

1 as you have stated the is a lot of foreign nationals in the lower paid jobs that seem to still exist. But this does not mean that there is a load of irish sitting on the welfare system not awanting these jobs. ( not trying to be smart here) but what would you propose , fire the foreign nationals so we can have their jobs? what would happe to the foreign nationals then?

Like I said, I do believe that there are still many Irish sitting on the dole because they would rather do that than work a ow paying job.

I wasn't proposing anything...I was just describing the situation as I see it.

2 as you can see from the threads here although a lot of people dont agree with them there is a large uptake in the wpp . which is full time work for less than 200 quid a week.

Sorry to have to ask but what is wpp?

3 the amount of debt people have during this recession is far more than the last recession and although thte welfare system maybe generous i would say in most cases its not enough to keep their houses and what not.

I agree with you here. I've heard of a system, in Denmark I think, whereby you get full assistance with everything - though you are not allowed take the piss, and have to take the job that S.W. find for you.

As it stands in Ireland, some people should be getting more and others should be getting less, if any at all.

bigpink

Surely the goverment should close the doors now for while give people a chance

senordingdong

bigpink wrote: »

Does Ireland have a skills shortage in shop workers,taxi drivers that they give out visas for?
I could understand for highly skilled shortages

How is there so many NON EU workers surely there is a law on entry?

There are requirments, and I'm sure that so long as a foreign national meets the requirements, they are granted entry.

I doubht anyone in the immigration office is thinking to themselves that 'the country has enough immgrants - I think I'll refuse all applications from now on'.
They are probably just doing their job, as it was outlined to them, regardless of any bigger picture. And untill the govt. or some other body issues a mandate that outlines otherwise (which they certainly won't becasue everybody is afraid of being labelled a racist), things will continue as they are.

Some call it a free market, and others call it survival of the fittest.

Martron

wpp = work placement program.

senordingdong

Martron wrote: »

wpp = work placement program.

Yeah, I agree that there is a large uptake in wpp but I still think those uptaking are in the minority.

Martron

i dont think you can honestly say the uptake of this is a minority as you did not know what the wpp was 5 minutes ago.

senordingdong

I know work placement programmes are, I did not know what your abbreviation was.

And like I said, I have been simply describing the situation as I see it. Based on my own experiences that is.

Martron

do you work in the recruitment industry? social welfare? are your assumptions made from the shop you pick up your coffee in the morning from?

i am not trying to get at you here but , unless you travel around ireland and see a good cross section of society i dont think you can make an educated assumption on stuff like this unless you are using issued facts.

zeusnero

bigpink wrote: »

Surely the goverment should close the doors now for while give people a chance

can you flush out what you mean exactly by 'give people a chance'...

maybe you mean a chance to not want to work in lower paid service jobs because they are beneath them? They're already doing that afaik...

maneno

i am non eu but irish citizen,and working,does it mean i dont deserve a job because am not irish by birth?

Xcellor

My wife is a non-EU national who is working.

She can however apply for Irish citizenship at this stage.

I believe if any non-EU national marries EU citizen then the right to work is automatic. Not too sure how many fall into this category but there is certainly nothing wrong with it.

senordingdong

Martron wrote: »

do you work in the recruitment industry? social welfare? are your assumptions made from the shop you pick up your coffee in the morning from?

i am not trying to get at you here but , unless you travel around ireland and see a good cross section of society i dont think you can make an educated assumption on stuff like this unless you are using issued facts.

No, I don't do any of these things.
Like I said, for the third time now, I am describing the situation as I see it in my everyday life.

HellFireClub

senordingdong wrote: »

Because they will do work that Irish people turn their nose up at, and do it for a rate that Irish people, would turn their nose up at.

In one respect, it seems detrimental to the economy to allow so many more non EU nationals into the country to work, but on the other hand, it will seriously slow the economies recovery if these posts go un-manned becasue Irish people are too good for them.

Now, the aspect of non narionals sending a large portion of their wages home is another story, but I'm not certain how that impacts into this.

We live in a parlimentary democracy where we have something called the rule of law. The law in this jurisdiction provides for a minimum wage of 8.65 Euro an hour.

In this country we have a load of non-EU workers who can cut their cost of living down to a very low amount, by living in a house where there could be up to 6-10 people contributing to the rent of that property. On that basis, these same folks can work for considerably less than the minimum wage set out by law.

The Irish person, maybe a married mother or father, has higher living expenses and needs the protection of the minimum wage. They can't work for 5 Euro an hour, because it won't pay the bills.

Mrs OBumble

HellFireClub wrote: »

In this country we have a load of non-EU workers who can cut their cost of living down to a very low amount, by living in a house where there could be up to 6-10 people contributing to the rent of that property. On that basis, these same folks can work for considerably less than the minimum wage set out by law.

The Irish person, maybe a married mother or father, has higher living expenses and needs the protection of the minimum wage. They can't work for 5 Euro an hour, because it won't pay the bills.

Do you have evidence that Irish people are more likely to be married (or co-habitating in a parenting relationship) than migrant workers? If not, then your claim is pretty much bogus.

I live in Galway. I've done a budget for living on 40 hours/week of minimum wage, in nice accommodation shared with one only other person. This budget would see me living well AND saving E4k per year.

Martron

senordingdong wrote: »

No, I don't do any of these things.
Like I said, for the third time now, I am describing the situation as I see it in my everyday life.

you can say it all you want , all i am saying from the obvservations i have made from your posts is that you can observe all you want. Does not mean your statements are accurate. and thats all i am saying.

you are entitled to your own opinion. I dont think you are seeing the bigger picture. I dont see how if you are not involved you would "see" a low up take in the WPP. There still is high unemployment. you can see this in everyday life. but its not becasue of snobbery to low paid jobs. or laziness or over genoristy ( in most cases) there are other programs which people are involved in to retrain to make them selves employable in the current market.

you obviously have a job and perhaps have not job hunted in a while. lack of experience in a competetive market is a main reason why people dont have lower jobs.

i think potential employers are the snobs in this case as they dont want to hire an ex engineer to stock shelves as they are " over qualified".

its easy to say that people are snubbin low paid jobs. but i dont think they are. i think as much as they would love a job they cant get it as they are viewed as over qualifed or not suitable.

mikemac

bigpink wrote: »

Im aware of the law that EU nationals can work/live within the EU but how are there so many many Aisans working in jobs in Ireland

There are English language schools in Ireland that are little more then a backdoor way to get to Ireland

You are restricted to 20 hours a week as it's a student visa, that's another thing disregarded

looksee

Just because someone has a different colour skin doesn't mean they are not an Irish or EU national.

ebbsy

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

Just wondering is there still a constant flow of foreign workers entering Ireland. I see a huge queue every morning down on the quays at the Immigration Office. Perhaps they are reviewing their visas or whatever. Seems strange that they would want to come here under the current circumstances.

gone
That is people waiting for their re-entry visas, ie they need one to get back into Ireland after going back for a holiday to their own country. €60 or €100 a pop as well.

Mostly its Indians/Pakistanis working in Spar etc now, as they cannot really get jobs anywhere else, and the Irish d'ont want them.

A lot of asians have gone back home, that is for sure, and there is no way that there is more coming in. Not a chance. Its a near impossible task to get a work permit now.

As long as the level of social welfare remains at current levels, there will be a situation where the Irish do not take up these jobs and lower wagesare offered to non EU citizens.

We only have ourselves to blame.

HellFireClub

JustMary wrote: »

Do you have evidence that Irish people are more likely to be married (or co-habitating in a parenting relationship) than migrant workers? If not, then your claim is pretty much bogus.

I live in Galway. I've done a budget for living on 40 hours/week of minimum wage, in nice accommodation shared with one only other person. This budget would see me living well AND saving E4k per year.

How many Irish people do you know sharing a house with 5-10 people??? Sure show us your figures there for sharing a property with one person and saving 4K a year on 346 Euro a week before PRSI, etc???

BuffyBot

I'd love if someone would show me this fabled "door" they are all coming through, as I'm plenty of non-EU friends who can't seem to find it for love nor money...

sue345

bigpink wrote: »

How is there so many NON EU workers surely there is a law on entry?

There are many ways to work here by law.

Non EU nationals who come here as students are allowed to work a maximum of 20 hours per week during school time, while on vacation from school (i.e Christmas hols, mid-term breaks, summer hols etc) they are allowed to work on a full time basis. These would have a Stamp 2 on their passport and employers would need that as proof they can work here.

Other non EU nationals can also work here if they are married to an EU national and have been given permission to live here in Ireland...

Some could also come here on a holiday working visa but they would only be allowed to stay with an employer for max of 6 months, they would then have to find other employment or travel or whatever they choose to do.

You can find more in dept info here if you want:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/migrant_workers/employment_permits/work_permits.html

charlemont

During the "boom" lots of recruitment agencies tended to choose foreigners over those of us without a full C.V. Check out Apple Computers in Cork for instance.

Jim2007

looksee wrote: »

Just because someone has a different colour skin doesn't mean they are not an Irish or EU national.

A very good point! Most people who reside in one the EU countries for about 5 years will be able to obtain citizenship and are fully entitled to be here!

On top of that there are also the countries of what is called the "Outermost Regions" of the European Union, which although located all over the world are in fact considered to be in a special relationship with the EU, through their relationship to the old Empires. Under this heading all the following are part of the EU and as such the peoples of these countries are our fellow EU citizens:

- French Guiana, South America (uses Euro)
- Guadeloupe, Central America (uses Euro)
- Martinique, South America (uses Euro)
- Réunion, Indian Ocean (uses Euro)
- Netherlands Antilles (full EU citizens)

And the list goes on....

Just because they don't look European does not mean they are not EU citizens.....

Jim

donkey balls

Here is a list of occupations that wont be granted a work permit,Even through the good aul days a foreign national looking for a work permit here had to jump through a good few loops.
First of all the employer had to prove to the Dept Trade&enterprise that there was no suitable EU national to employ,This meant the employer had to advertise the job through the papers&internet.
Only then would the employee be granted a work permit afaik it was around 1200e per year,Austrailia has something similar in place from what i recall if your working on a sponership visa and you lose your job they give you a number of months to find a new employer failing that your on the next flight home
http://www.deti.ie/labour/workpermits/elements/ineligible.htmrk visa

senordingdong

Martron wrote: »

you can say it all you want , all i am saying from the obvservations i have made from your posts is that you can observe all you want. Does not mean your statements are accurate. and thats all i am saying.

So my opinions aren't to be taken seriously because they are just that, whereas yours are to be taken seriously?

you are entitled to your own opinion. I dont think you are seeing the bigger picture. I dont see how if you are not involved you would "see" a low up take in the WPP. There still is high unemployment. you can see this in everyday life. but its not becasue of snobbery to low paid jobs. or laziness or over genoristy ( in most cases) there are other programs which people are involved in to retrain to make them selves employable in the current market.

I see 'a low uptake' in wpp because it is painfully obvious to anyone in this country that unemployment is rising, and wpp places are not rising to match. Further more, I've observed people (who were unwilling to work) take up courses and wpps, just because their dole would have been cut if they hadn't.
So tell us what you do to have the insight you have.

you obviously have a job and perhaps have not job hunted in a while. lack of experience in a competetive market is a main reason why people dont have lower jobs.

I do have a job. A whole two months into in fact. After eighteen months of being unemployed.
Refusal to accept a low paying job when there is nothing else available, falls under the category of lack of experience in a comptetive market.

i think potential employers are the snobs in this case as they dont want to hire an ex engineer to stock shelves as they are " over qualified".

Ia gree that this is true in some cases, but obviously not all.

bigpink

BuffyBot wrote: »

I'd love if someone would show me this fabled "door" they are all coming through, as I'm plenty of non-EU friends who can't seem to find it for love nor money...

Ok why is my local Centra staffed by so many Aisans?
Is there a skills shortage for working in Centra that is on the entry list

doolox

If you want change you should boycott stores which hire too many non-local people and only go to stores that hire Irish people.

Knowing that the Irish love to complain and will do nothing effective about a situation this is not likely to happen.

On my own observations a lot of the bigger stores have noticeably reduced their obviously foreign looking checkout operators and a lot of local school leavers are being taken on than would have been the case previously.

I find dealing with the foreigners a mixed bag, some are downright rude and make shopping an unpleasant experience, others are more cheerful and happy than the general run and others are much the same as the regular shop assistants.

The atmosphere in Lidl and Dunnes I find very repressive and I would say thay are probably very difficult and stressful places to work in. Other places I'd say are a bit better such as Tesco's or Superquinn where the management at least appear human.

I find the smaller convenience stores a very mixed bag, some are dominated by Chinese looking people with not an Irish person in sight, others all Indian. Pakistani, etc. It looks a bit suspicious when all the staff in a workplace are of the one race.....possibly family owned and run???? How many Irish places would get away with that without some complaint???? I find this happens a lot in inner city Dublin, not so much on the suburbs.

Cavehill Red

It's time that the Dept of Justice and Gardai implemented an inspection campaign to establish if all non-EU nationals currently working in this country are doing so legally.

CSF

doolox wrote: »

If you want change you should boycott stores which hire too many non-local people and only go to stores that hire Irish people.

Knowing that the Irish love to complain and will do nothing effective about a situation this is not likely to happen.

On my own observations a lot of the bigger stores have noticeably reduced their obviously foreign looking checkout operators and a lot of local school leavers are being taken on than would have been the case previously.

I find dealing with the foreigners a mixed bag, some are downright rude and make shopping an unpleasant experience, others are more cheerful and happy than the general run and others are much the same as the regular shop assistants.

The atmosphere in Lidl and Dunnes I find very repressive and I would say thay are probably very difficult and stressful places to work in. Other places I'd say are a bit better such as Tesco's or Superquinn where the management at least appear human.

I find the smaller convenience stores a very mixed bag, some are dominated by Chinese looking people with not an Irish person in sight, others all Indian. Pakistani, etc. It looks a bit suspicious when all the staff in a workplace are of the one race.....possibly family owned and run???? How many Irish places would get away with that without some complaint???? I find this happens a lot in inner city Dublin, not so much on the suburbs.

I wouldn't go as far as dropping the r word, but you definitely need to broaden your viewpoint.

ABajaninCork

Jim2007 wrote: »

A very good point! Most people who reside in one the EU countries for about 5 years will be able to obtain citizenship and are fully entitled to be here!

On top of that there are also the countries of what is called the "Outermost Regions" of the European Union, which although located all over the world are in fact considered to be in a special relationship with the EU, through their relationship to the old Empires. Under this heading all the following are part of the EU and as such the peoples of these countries are our fellow EU citizens:

- French Guiana, South America (uses Euro)
- Guadeloupe, Central America (uses Euro)
- Martinique, South America (uses Euro)
- Réunion, Indian Ocean (uses Euro)
- Netherlands Antilles (full EU citizens)

And the list goes on....

Just because they don't look European does not mean they are not EU citizens.....

Jim

Well said!! I'll also add Black British, (could be of Afro-Caribbean/African descent), Asian Brits, Chinese Brits; etc., etc., etc...

I'm Black British, married to an Irishman. I've had more than a few cross-eyed looks, but when I speak, it then becomes obvious that I'm English. (London accent being a dead giveaway!;))

BTW - Martinique, Guadaloupe and Saint Martin (the French half) are in the Caribbean, not South/Central America. The other half of Saint Martin/ Sint Maaten is Dutch and also uses the Euro...;)

doolox

..and alienated in my own country. I prefer to deal with people who speak my language comfortably in my accent or as near to it as possible. Failing that I will put up with foreigners but no amount of political correctness or fear of being branded reactionary or racist will make me comfortable dealing people of a different culture who are rude and do not even make an attempt to be pleasant or accomodating.

ABajaninCork

doolox wrote: »

..and alienated in my own country. I prefer to deal with people who speak my language comfortably in my accent or as near to it as possible. Failing that I will put up with foreigners but no amount of political correctness or fear of being branded reactionary or racist will make me comfortable dealing people of a different culture who are rude and do not even make an attempt to be pleasant or accomodating.

Which people do you mean? I'm a bit confused...

wratch

If you don't like it you are more than welcome to join your cousins in USA, Canada, OZ, UK etc.

bernyh

My local Spar has mostly Polish (well at least Eastern European) girls working there and they are a lovely bunch (well bar one...) but they also have a few girls from Mauritius who work there, I was talking to them about being over here, I went there a few years back and I know that there's not much in the way of work or money there. They were telling me about the amount of money they have to pay to the "English" language school it's a lot considering they can only work 20 hours a week. These girls are really nice and I like them so I hope not talking out of turn here, but English is the first language of Mauritius and when we were there we didn't come across one person who couldn't speak it fluently. I can't understand how a visa can be granted to learn English if it's a first language.

Nodin

doolox wrote: »

..and alienated in my own country.

Thats your problem, not theirs.

dazzlermac

i agree with ya doolox........imo we should feed our own(irish) from the table and if theres anything left then use it for non=nationals

mikemac

bernyh wrote: »

I can't understand how a visa can be granted to learn English if it's a first language.

A lot of those language schools only exist on paper. It's an office with an address.

And a back door way to get a visa, that 20 hour rule is broken in every county in Ireland

ABajaninCork

bernyh wrote: »

My local Spar has mostly Polish (well at least Eastern European) girls working there and they are a lovely bunch (well bar one...) but they also have a few girls from Mauritius who work there, I was talking to them about being over here, I went there a few years back and I know that there's not much in the way of work or money there. They were telling me about the amount of money they have to pay to the "English" language school it's a lot considering they can only work 20 hours a week. These girls are really nice and I like them so I hope not talking out of turn here, but English is the first language of Mauritius and when we were there we didn't come across one person who couldn't speak it fluently. I can't understand how a visa can be granted to learn English if it's a first language.

Nope!! English is NOT the first language in Mauritius. French is, although English is one of the official languages.