Avoidable mistakes

derra

Was playing well yesterday, had 39pts going onto the 18th and hit my drive to the right where there is ditches etc and was hoping it might be on the edge and still get a shot at it.
Went up anyway and it was in the ditch, took a penalty drop and was still in a bad way to even hack out with a tree in front of me and back swing affected by branches. As usual the provo was in position A !
Eventually got onto the green and had a long putt to scrape a point and missed it.

Found out later i lost on count back :mad:
Was kicking meself in not declaring the ball unplayable and go back to hit 3rd of the tee and give meself better chance of getting at least a point, which would of won it !

Anyone make similar mistakes before or pick up when two to score on a hole in a rumble, play wrong balls etc when going well ?
Tell us what ruined the card

AldilaMan

Was there any possibility of taking a drop keeping the ball and flag in line going back as far as you want.Obviously if this line takes you out of bounds then that wasn't a runner. A lot of times it's the better option than 2 club lengths.

Trampas

AldilaMan wrote: »

Was there any possibility of taking a drop keeping the ball and flag in line going back as far as you want.Obviously if this line takes you out of bounds then that wasn't a runner. A lot of times it's the better option than 2 club lengths.

I think a lot of people don't know that rule of going back as far as they like

stockdam

You had three options if the ball was unplayable.......all of which incur one penalty shot.

1. Take a drop within 2 clublengths.

2. Go back as far as you want keeping the ball position, the pin and the drop point in a line. This can often put you in further trouble but it is a good option if there are trees to hit over.

3. Go back to where you last played (often the tee).

Before taking any of these options you should evaluate them to see which is the best.

It sounds like you automatically took the first option without thinking if it was the best one.

Going back to the tee is difficult if there are people waiting but just let them hit first.

Mister Sifter

Put it down to experience. I'm a firm believer that sometimes you have to go there to come back.

Next time you're standing on 18 with 39 points, take the bad shots and the trouble out of it completely.

An example - earlier this season, two rounds running i ruined a good card in the final two holes. I made similar mistakes both times.

The next time i was going well i got on to 17 and took the trouble (behind the green) out of play by taking a club less - i perhaps sacrficed birdie, but eliminated bogey or worse.

On 18, all the trouble is down the right, with plenty of room down the left. I didn't need perfect golf to get me home. I took the right hand side of the hole out the equation and made a boring (and pretty ugly) par. But it got the job done.

I guess what i'm trying to say is take it as a positive - learn from what happened and it'll stand you in good stead next time.

L.O.F.T

Mister Sifter wrote: »

Put it down to experience. I'm a firm believer that sometimes you have to go there to come back.

Next time you're standing on 18 with 39 points, take the bad shots and the trouble out of it completely.

An example - earlier this season, two rounds running i ruined a good card in the final two holes. I made similar mistakes both times.

The next time i was going well i got on to 17 and took the trouble (behind the green) out of play by taking a club less - i perhaps sacrficed birdie, but eliminated bogey or worse.

On 18, all the trouble is down the right, with plenty of room down the left. I didn't need perfect golf to get me home. I took the right hand side of the hole out the equation and made a boring (and pretty ugly) par. But it got the job done.

I guess what i'm trying to say is take it as a positive - learn from what happened and it'll stand you in good stead next time.

Refreshing to see the old Graeme1982 back, but I presume it will be temporary, and my observation will be followed by a swift baa humbug.

stockdam

Mister Sifter wrote: »

Put it down to experience. I'm a firm believer that sometimes you have to go there to come back.

Totally agree. You've got to "blow it" to learn sometimes.

A long time ago I was leading an Open by several shots (I didn't know it but I was pretty sure that I was) and was playing well. I got to the 16th which is probably the hardest hole as it is long and has trouble right and OOB left. I took my driver and tried to draw the ball round the corner but hooked it OOBs. I then did the same thing and eventually took a 9. I lost the compo by two shots. All I needed to do was to hit a 5 wood or iron off the tee and take my bogey or scrambled par.

I also lost a match once by playing the wrong ball and let my opponent convince me that I was playing the right ball. I won the hole easily and then discovered the error when I lifted the ball out of the hole. The two hole swing cost me the match on the 20th.

So the next time you are in the same position then the "hurt" will return and you hopefully will make a better decision...........we've all been there.

Mister Sifter

It could be worse...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/tears-flow-as-abbott-shows-heart-of-champion/story-e6frg7uo-1111112580176

BoardsMember

Can I ask a quesiton related to the OP. He says he hit a provo off the tee. Can he use that as his option re go back to hit from last spot. I'm presuming not. So, effectively, the only time you can use use provisional is when you lose your ball in play. Is that right? What's the story about hitting a provisional when you have hit it into or near a water hazard. If you're not 100% sure it's in the hazard that's ok presumably.

Trampas

BoardsMember wrote: »

Can I ask a quesiton related to the OP. He says he hit a provo off the tee. Can he use that as his option re go back to hit from last spot. I'm presuming not. So, effectively, the only time you can use use provisional is when you lose your ball in play. Is that right? What's the story about hitting a provisional when you have hit it into or near a water hazard. If you're not 100% sure it's in the hazard that's ok presumably.

Provo only comes into account if he can't find his ball. if he finds his ball his provo is no longer in play

PARlance

Mister Sifter wrote: »

It could be worse...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/tears-flow-as-abbott-shows-heart-of-champion/story-e6frg7uo-1111112580176

I'd take that round tbh

derra

AldilaMan wrote: »

Was there any possibility of taking a drop keeping the ball and flag in line going back as far as you want.Obviously if this line takes you out of bounds then that wasn't a runner. A lot of times it's the better option than 2 club lengths.

No, was'nt an option in this case.

stockdam wrote: »

It sounds like you automatically took the first option without thinking if it was the best one.

Going back to the tee is difficult if there are people waiting but just let them hit first.

Thats what happened in a nutshell, the other two lads were looking in a different spot, i found it across from the provo and quickly took the ball and dropped within two lengths without assessing my options.
Would'nt bother me going back to tee box if lads were there, understandable if ya shooting a good score.

I wonder how many players nowadays would of lied and left it there and continued on with the provo !

Mister Sifter wrote: »

Put it down to experience. I'm a firm believer that sometimes you have to go there to come back.

Next time you're standing on 18 with 39 points, take the bad shots and the trouble out of it completely.

I guess what i'm trying to say is take it as a positive - learn from what happened and it'll stand you in good stead next time.

Will learn from it alright and think about it in future. Just a pain that it happens playing so well and screw it up on the last, happens to everyone at some stage.

stockdam wrote: »

Totally agree. You've got to "blow it" to learn sometimes.

A long time ago I was leading an Open by several shots (I didn't know it but I was pretty sure that I was) and was playing well. I got to the 16th which is probably the hardest hole as it is long and has trouble right and OOB left. I took my driver and tried to draw the ball round the corner but hooked it OOBs. I then did the same thing and eventually took a 9. I lost the compo by two shots. All I needed to do was to hit a 5 wood or iron off the tee and take my bogey or scrambled par.

I also lost a match once by playing the wrong ball and let my opponent convince me that I was playing the right ball. I won the hole easily and then discovered the error when I lifted the ball out of the hole. The two hole swing cost me the match on the 20th.

So the next time you are in the same position then the "hurt" will return and you hopefully will make a better decision...........we've all been there.

Great examples of what can happen on the course to ruin your chances of winning.
Got to be focussed from first tee shot right to the last putt on everything to do with a round of golf and learn from previous mistakes as you say.

Mister Sifter wrote: »

It could be worse...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/tears-flow-as-abbott-shows-heart-of-champion/story-e6frg7uo-1111112580176

Nigthmare for the chap ! Alot of work to recover from that !

stockdam

derra wrote: »

I wonder how many players nowadays would of lied and left it there and continued on with the provo !

You have another "option". You can declare a ball lost anywhere on the course and not bother looking for it. However you can't do that if you can see it or you or somebody else finds it. It's a debatable point but you don't have to look for the ball.

Halfprice

Mistakes!!! The biggest mistake is not playing your normal game.Well in my case it is. I play off 6 and i am a risk taker most of the time. Was playing a competition couple weeks ago and had 36pts coming to he 17th. Normally i'd hit a driver but on this ocassion i'd said i'd play safe as there was water (reachable all the time on the right) and trees on the left so i said i'd hit a 3wood to play safe. When i got down to the ball it was behind a tree and at the very edge of the grass and the muck. No shot what so ever. Ended up with a 6 for 1 pt and scratched the last as well with a poor tee shot also. The only 2 bad ones i had all day. Ended up with 37pts and the winner had 38pts.. Talk about fumming...

stockdam

Halfprice wrote: »

Mistakes!!! The biggest mistake is not playing your normal game.

I think sometimes you need to get your head right first. If I'm under pressure and need to hit the fairway then the driver is often my safe shot as I concentrate more. If I take a rescue wood then sometimes I think it's just a dunt down the middle and then I end up playing a silly shot.

Mister Sifter

That's a fair point re playing safe. If you're gonna play it safe, you've still got to do so with conviction. I'd say we've all done it - laying up on a par 5 and you ease off too much and end up in the rough or behind a tree.

A good way of avoiding it is making sure you continue to pick out your target and aiming for it, rather than just trying to cosy one up the fairway.

stockdam

Yes you need to play "target" golf all the time. I play better when I commit fully to a shot and hit it hard rather than a sloppy aimless shot. Playing for position still needs a good swing; just because you choose the safe shot, doesn't mean that you should stop trying.

My worst shot is a half wedge as I tend to think it's an easy shot and then I don't swing with conviction.

derra

Great advice there on playing shots with conviction, have started to do that alot more after alot of trying to play safe shots and end up in trouble because of it.
Instead of hitting a easy 3 wood to lay up, i would now hit a solid 3/4 iron with conviction and hopefully work out.
Whole approach to golf seems to be changing rapidly and adjusting to playing off 12 where i was off 18 couple months back.
Challenging to say the least but thats what's it's all about and enjoying it !

Am with ya on that wedge shot too Stockdam but improving on it.

Nicklaus

I think the rule is that one MUST make an effort to find the golf ball. I don't think it can be declared lost without some attempt to find it.

BoardsMember

Nicklaus wrote: »

I think the rule is that one MUST make an effort to find the golf ball. I don't think it can be declared lost without some attempt to find it.

That's not right. you dont have to make any effort to find it.

Nicklaus

It's another tricky one...if you spoke to 100 guys about the rule you'ld probably get an even breakdown 50/50. Example: on a Par 3 hole you hit your tee shot into dense bushes, possibly a lost ball but not OOB. You play a provisional ball and 'stick it to the pin', tap-in distance - certain 4. You don't want to go near the bushes in case you find your original ball, right? Perfectly understandable. I would think the same. But I think that it's ethically wrong. Many a time I've disadvantaged myself by finding my ball but I think that's just part of the game. As I've said, it's not clear in the rules and the situation is open to interpretation.

GreeBo

You can never declare a ball lost.
A ball is deemed lost if one of a number of things has happened, but you cant just declare it lost. You can declare it unplayable at any time (assuming you still have it)

You do not need to look for a ball, but anyone else can continue to look for it and unless the original ball has been deemed lost before they find it, its back in play.

GreeBo

Mister Sifter wrote: »

That's a fair point re playing safe. If you're gonna play it safe, you've still got to do so with conviction. I'd say we've all done it - laying up on a par 5 and you ease off too much and end up in the rough or behind a tree.

A good way of avoiding it is making sure you continue to pick out your target and aiming for it, rather than just trying to cosy one up the fairway.

The best way of playing safe is to pick a club that "cant" get you in trouble and then swing away.
(Obviously there is no guarantee with the "cant", but the point still stands )

Mister Sifter

GreeBo wrote: »

The best way of playing safe is to pick a club that "cant" get you in trouble and then swing away.
(Obviously there is no guarantee with the "cant", but the point still stands )

I disagree with that mentality. That's how you end up behind a tree or in the rough when laying up on a par 5. I much prefer to play cautious golf aggressively (with commitment), but would see over-cautious golf as a recipe for disaster.

Nicklaus

I think you're both saying the same thing - but in different ways.:rolleyes:

Mister Sifter

Nicklaus wrote: »

I think you're both saying the same thing - but in different ways.:rolleyes:

I think we're soon gonna have to get the mats out and bow down...

Trampas

I think what causes people to hit bad shots when playing it safe i.e. 3 wood or long iron instead of driver is they try to guide the ball down there instead of swinging it normal and hence cause a mistake.

Phil M once hit a ball into the cabbage and hit a provo off the tee straight down the middle.

He was heard asking the crowd not to go look for it cause he didn't want to find it.

Nicklaus

He probably did - in jest I hope. Of course, not all of the pros are exemplary when it comes to their interpretation of the rules but, as a rule, they are excellent at controlling their inherent human instinct to cheat. Their are some great examples of pros calling penalties on themselves when they could easily have got away with the infringement. It's incumbent on us all as golfers to 'keep tabs' on ourselves and our fellow golfers, in order to keep us on the 'straight and narrow'.:o

GreeBo

Nicklaus wrote: »

I think you're both saying the same thing - but in different ways.:rolleyes:

Yep we are!
I'm saying exactly what has been said before, there is no point in trying to steer a driver or a rescue, if the driver might reach trouble then hit a confident rescue, a "tight" rescue is worse than a tight driver (because you end up in the same crap, just further back!)

You can ask people not to look for your ball all you want, but they still can and if they find it before you put another ball into play...tough.

Mister Sifter

GreeBo wrote: »

Yep we are!
I'm saying exactly what has been said before, there is no point in trying to steer a driver or a rescue, if the driver might reach trouble then hit a confident rescue, a "tight" rescue is worse than a tight driver (because you end up in the same crap, just further back!)

You can ask people not to look for your ball all you want, but they still can and if they find it before you put another ball into play...tough.

Pointless posting from Greebo? Shock horror. At least you're aware of it. Although that makes it all all the more baffling.

GreeBo

Mister Sifter wrote: »

Pointless posting from Greebo? Shock horror. At least you're aware of it. Although that makes it all all the more baffling.

I was trying to say that Trampas had already said the same thing I was saying in my first post, but before I had a chance to explain it to you again.

But hey, I can click Ignore User just as good as anybody can. :rolleyes:

Nicklaus

I'm new to this forum so not I'm sure what a Moderator is. Is he someone who has a good understanding of the subject - Golf? If so, he should check the Rules of Golf more closely before answering queries. Jul3s explains the rule about declaring a lost ball perfectly in the string 'New members handicap'.;)

Mister Sifter

Nicklaus wrote: »

I'm new to this forum so not I'm sure what a Moderator is. Is he someone who has a good understanding of the subject - Golf?

Licksy does. As for Greebo... :eek:

jonas7

Mister Sifter wrote: »

Licksy does. As for Greebo... :eek:

Are you 12 years old or something? Give it a rest ffs

Nicklaus

OK. I think I understand now. I don't wish to get into slagging matches with anyone on this forum. I'm here to discuss Golf matters and only that. Thanks.

GreeBo

Nicklaus wrote: »

I'm new to this forum so not I'm sure what a Moderator is. Is he someone who has a good understanding of the subject - Golf? If so, he should check the Rules of Golf more closely before answering queries. Jul3s explains the rule about declaring a lost ball perfectly in the string 'New members handicap'.;)

Personally I prefer the RandA version of the ROG over the Jul3s version :rolleyes:

RandA Decision 27/16 wrote:

A player cannot render a ball lost by a declaration – see Definition of “Lost Ball”

RandA - Definitions: Lost Ball wrote:

A ball is deemed “lost” if:

a. It is not found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player’s side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it; or

b. The player has made a stroke at a provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place (see Rule 27-2b); or

c. The player has put another ball into play under penalty of stroke and distance (see Rule 27-la); or

d. The player has put another ball into play because it is known or virtually certain that the ball, which has not been found, has been moved by an outside agency (see Rule 18-1), is in an obstruction (see Rule 24-3), is in an abnormal ground condition (see Rule 25-1c) or is in a water hazard (see Rule 26-1); or

e. The player has made a stroke at a substituted ball.

Time spent in playing a wrong ball is not counted in the five-minute period allowed for search.

Nicklaus

The clarification of the 'Lost Ball' rule given by Jul3s is directly taken from the 'RandA Decisions' book published by the RandA. This is an explanatory book issued by the RandA which is an excellent publication and an absolute 'must have' for anybody who proports to know the Rules of Golf.

stockdam

GreeBo wrote: »

You can never declare a ball lost.
A ball is deemed lost if one of a number of things has happened, but you cant just declare it lost. You can declare it unplayable at any time (assuming you still have it)

You do not need to look for a ball, but anyone else can continue to look for it and unless the original ball has been deemed lost before they find it, its back in play.

It's quite simple.....just read the rules.

"If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of
bounds, to save time the player may play another ball
provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must
inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellowcompetitor
in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional
ball, and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward
to search for the original ball.
If he fails to do so and plays another ball, that ball is not a
provisional ball and becomes the ball in play under penalty of
stroke and distance (Rule 27-1); the original ball is lost."

So you just hit another ball without clearly declaring it as "provisional". Note that many people do not know this rule and they assume that if they play another ball then it is a provisional.......you have to DECLARE it (ie say out loud) to be a provisional.

Hence, if you want to declare a ball lost then simply hit another ball and don't say a word.

BoardsMember

Nicklaus wrote: »

It's another tricky one...if you spoke to 100 guys about the rule you'ld probably get an even breakdown 50/50. Example: on a Par 3 hole you hit your tee shot into dense bushes, possibly a lost ball but not OOB. You play a provisional ball and 'stick it to the pin', tap-in distance - certain 4. You don't want to go near the bushes in case you find your original ball, right? Perfectly understandable. I would think the same. But I think that it's ethically wrong. Many a time I've disadvantaged myself by finding my ball but I think that's just part of the game. As I've said, it's not clear in the rules and the situation is open to interpretation.

You cant go by the ethics though. Ethically, sometimes the rules kick you in the teeth and make no sense and are not fair or reasonable. As our Paddy always says, know the rules so they can work for you as well as against you.

GreeBo

Nicklaus wrote: »

The clarification of the 'Lost Ball' rule given by Jul3s is directly taken from the 'RandA Decisions' book published by the RandA. This is an explanatory book issued by the RandA which is an excellent publication and an absolute 'must have' for anybody who proports to know the Rules of Golf.

Jul3s wrote: »

Just to be clear your "friend" off 9 was correct, you can not declare a ball lost.

GreeBo

stockdam wrote: »

Hence, if you want to declare a ball lost then simply hit another ball and don't say a word.

The problems arise when people have arrived at the area they hope there ball to be in (i.e. just outside the forest)
Those who dont know the rules often then decide that since its obviously not anywhere nice they will say its lost and go play the provo assuming that no one else can continue to search for the original for the full 5 mins.
In a match you cant play out of turn so your provo is closer than your opponents you are stuck. (Though Im not sure what happens if you hit it anyway and they force you to replay...is the original still potentially in play...)

Nicklaus

If I ever played with a guy who didn't even make a cursory attempt to look for his ball, because he would be disadvantaged if he'd find it, then I would make it my business to insist on looking for it for the full 5 minutes. Particularly in matchplay. So don't play with me if you want to get an unfair advantage.

Nicklaus

Yes, the original is still in play.

GreeBo

Nicklaus wrote: »

If I ever played with a guy who didn't even make a cursory attempt to look for his ball, because he would be disadvantaged if he'd find it, then I would make it my business to insist on looking for it for the full 5 minutes. Particularly in matchplay. So don't play with me if you want to get an unfair advantage.

Well if he wasnt even going to glance over that way then Im assuming he wouldnt have called a provo? If he didnt declare it a provo then (as stockdam says) he has no choice but to continue to play the provo, even if the original is sitting pretty in the fairway (unless its in the hole)

charlieIRL

Nicklaus wrote: »

The clarification of the 'Lost Ball' rule given by Jul3s is directly taken from the 'RandA Decisions' book published by the RandA. This is an explanatory book issued by the RandA which is an excellent publication and an absolute 'must have' for anybody who proports to know the Rules of Golf.

we mentioned this probably before you joined - there is an R&A rules of golf app for an iphone (if you have one). Very very handy app.

Nicklaus

charlieIRL wrote: »

we mentioned this probably before you joined - there is an R&A rules of golf app for an iphone (if you have one). Very very handy app.

I'd love to get one of those Iphones from Santy!;)

stockdam

GreeBo wrote: »

The problems arise when people have arrived at the area they hope there ball to be in (i.e. just outside the forest)
Those who dont know the rules often then decide that since its obviously not anywhere nice they will say its lost and go play the provo assuming that no one else can continue to search for the original for the full 5 mins.
In a match you cant play out of turn so your provo is closer than your opponents you are stuck. (Though Im not sure what happens if you hit it anyway and they force you to replay...is the original still potentially in play...)

Yes you cannot directly declare a ball lost.
In strokeplay you just tell your partners that you will play another ball and they will generally just accept this. You can also play out of turn in strokeplay so if you have already hit a provisional then all you do is to hit this one before anyone else finds your ball.

In matchplay you "cannot" play out of turn. I'm not sure what would happen if you did and your opponent then found your original ball..........you've already played your 2nd ball and so it is now the ball in play. I think your opponent can ask you to replay it but cannot force you to play your original ball. That's something that I just don't know. I think your 2nd ball is now in play but since you've played out of turn, your opponent may ask you to replay the shot.......your first ball is "lost" and out of play. Hence there could be a race between you getting to your ball whilst your opponent frantically tries to find your ball before you hit.

All of the above assumes that you have used a provisional. If you hit a 2nd ball before even attempting to look for the first and you didn't declare it as provisional then the 2nd ball is now in play - even if your first ball is in the middle of the fairway or on the green. This works both ways. If you don't want to find your first ball then hit a 2nd one immediately. However if you intend that the 2nd ball is a provisional and you do not clearly state that it is then the 2nd ball is now in play and you cannot use the first one.

I often hear people say "I'll hit another" when they mean "I'll hit a provisional". The first one means that the 2nd ball is now in play. If I ask them "do you mean that you are hitting a provisional" then am I giving them advice?

GreeBo

stockdam wrote: »

I often hear people say "I'll hit another" when they mean "I'll hit a provisional". The first one means that the 2nd ball is now in play. If I ask them "do you mean that you are hitting a provisional" then am I giving them advice?

You are entitled to enquire as to their intent, advising them to declare it a provisional might be a different matter though. I think it would depend on whether or not you were advising them as to their options or as to what they should do in this specific situation.

BoardsMember

You're perfectly entitled to offer advice on the rules, whether in general or to a specific situation. There is no issue with asking someone are they playing a provisional or not.

GreeBo

BoardsMember wrote: »

You're perfectly entitled to offer advice on the rules, whether in general or to a specific situation. There is no issue with asking someone are they playing a provisional or not.

You can advise them of their options under the rules, but you cannot advise them on what you think they should do in a certain situation.

derra

stockdam wrote: »

You had three options if the ball was unplayable.......all of which incur one penalty shot.

1. Take a drop within 2 clublengths.

2. Go back as far as you want keeping the ball position, the pin and the drop point in a line. This can often put you in further trouble but it is a good option if there are trees to hit over.

3. Go back to where you last played (often the tee).

Before taking any of these options you should evaluate them to see which is the best.

It sounds like you automatically took the first option without thinking if it was the best one.

Going back to the tee is difficult if there are people waiting but just let them hit first.

Had this problem again yesterday.
Was hit and miss with the driver all day.
Knocked down a drive to the left into heavy rough area amongst small bushes etc.
So i hit a provo which was fine.
Went down and found the original ball so provo out of play.
Option to drop the ball was not viable,be no shot after it at all.
Now the fella i was playing with said go back as far as ya like keeping in line etc which i could do but was a rotten shot to hit and i said i would rather take the option of hitting from the tee box again.
But he was adamant that i had to take the shot that was keeping in line from where i was ,and if that had not been a possibility then i could go back to the tee box.
He more or less was saying i had to make decisions in that order.
Drop.
Keep in line back as far as ya like.
Tee box.

Was he right? Did'nt argue or nothing about it, i just mentioned i thought i could make any choice out of the three options without following the order he says.