Tech women in Movies...TV...etc

Eviledna

I am so sick of the way women are depicted in most tech-related movies. I watched the Social Network yesterday and I could not get over how bloomin sexist that film is. The only reference to women throughout the whole thing is in a sexual context, rating them on their looks, the protagonists' easy lays thanks to all the facebook dosh, various wide-eyed ladies ready to hop into bed with the creator just because he made "the facebook".

Which got me to thinking...how many decent references are there to women in tech movies, or even more so references to women involved in technology in films/tv at all?
If there is a reference to a girl in science/technology, she is always the unattractive nerd and the prettier one must be educated by the men to use the technology, as the other woman is marginalised.

Case in point:



I love the big bang theory, but it grinds my gears that the only females that are shown are either pretty and stupid or smart and unattractive as a result.

There are so many women making brilliant headway in IT, engineering and science. We are so underrepresented in TV and Films, and I am so very sick of finding only male characters to relate to, and being made to feel therefore that as a girl, I really shouldn't be worrying my pretty little head about it.

I work in the web industry, I have a degree in computer science and I love everything about computers. I am a complete stereotypical "nerd", I love Star Trek and all Sci-fi, enjoy puzzles, and relax watching mythbusters. I don't like chick flicks or stereotypical girly mags. However, I am also young, social, relatively attractive (or so the OH says!:)) and the complete opposite of this:



I have a complete girl-crush on Kari Byron of mythbusters, only because she seems to be the only woman that is allowed to be simultaneously attractive and interested in Science.

So (after that rant) I have two questions for you ladies...

Why are women in technology and science under-represented as strong female characters in TV and the media?

Is it because these films (that I seem to like) are targetting men and it is felt that men do not want to see attractive women in postitions of knowledge and power?

Blowfish

Eviledna wrote: »

If there is a reference to a girl in science/technology, she is always the unattractive nerd and the prettier one must be educated by the men to use the technology, as the other woman is marginalised.

/thread

liah

Dr. Plimpton was beautiful by anyone's standards, insanely smart by anyone's standards, and sexually liberated by anyone's standards.. she was on Big Bang Theory.

I do agree with you, though.. in a lot of things, it's either or, and I don't think that's fair at all. Don't think it'll change any time soon, though.

Professey Chin

Angelina Jolie anyone?

LegacyUser

I haven't seen the Social Network, but I really don't think this is a sexism issue.

For a start, IME, the media portrays "nerds"/people very interested in science terribly, regardless of gender. I mean, you referred to the Big Bang Theory. The male nerds in that show are portrayed equally awfully - socially retarded and unattractive. (actually, IIRC the female nerd in tBBT is portrayed as much more socially intelligent than the guys)

Secondly, I am a male Computer Science student. There are 0 girls in my class. You say that there are "so many women making brilliant headway in IT, engineering and science", but really, these women are outnumbered by a huge margin by males. You say that they're underrepresented in tv/film, but perhaps this is just tv/film reflecting reality? There's a big issue with why women don't go into science/engineering degrees, but it isn't the fault of tv/film.

Also, The Social Network is supposed to be somewhat based on a true story, afaik. Did you want them to invent female tech people and slot them in?

The referring to women as sex objects does occur, and is a bad thing IMO, but it's a separate issue tbh.

Eviledna

liah wrote: »

Dr. Plimpton was beautiful by anyone's standards, insanely smart by anyone's standards, and sexually liberated by anyone's standards.. she was on Big Bang Theory.

Yes, but she had to be the exception to the rule, didn't she? She had to be hyper sexualized, she couldn't be one of the peers.

Blowfish

I'm not sure it's something to worry about all that much. Granted, there are less science/tech women portrayed in films/tv, but frankly that's true to life.

As for those that are there, I don't think the percentage of 'nerdy' vs 'attractive' is particularly higher than those played by men. It's pretty easy to find a bunch of examples of non-nerdy science/tech women:

SugarHigh

You realise the social network is based on a true story?
What real life woman did they leave out, or should they just make one up to fill a quota?

If anything women are over-represented compared to the reality of the IT world.

Eviledna

Wow, that's tellin me, huh?

I know the social network was a true story, my gripe was that women in that film are only depicted as sexual objects, nothing else. Not a one. Every single female character in the film.
Are ye telling me that that is the total interaction that guy had in his career with women? I just thought it was very biased. But maybe that's his life. Stank of trying to sell to fellas to me though.

Maybe I am hypersensitive to this issue, working in a male dominated industry like IT. I would love to see some non-fantasy non sci-fi realistic representation of women that are interested in technology in a peer setting with men, an equal setting.

If I'm reading you all correctly, would that be, in fact, fantasy?

Nevyn

My two faves are

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abby_Sciuto

Abby is a forensic specialist at the Naval Criminal Investigative Service headquarters at the Washington Naval Yard and demonstrates mastery in a large number of areas of criminalistics, including ballistics, digital forensics, and DNA analysis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penelope_Garcia

Penelope Garcia (played by Kirsten Vangsness) is a fictional character on the TV series Criminal Minds. She is the Computer Technician of the Behavioral Analysis Unit which the show centers on.

Garcia has stated that after her parents died, she dropped out of Caltech and went "underground" but continued to teach herself computer coding. She had been placed on one of the FBI's hacker lists (she was one of a small handful of extremely useful or dangerous hackers in the world), and they recruited her from there

Setun

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

Angelina Jolie anyone?

I immediately thought of Hackers actually, Jolie definitely played an empowered "nerd". I remember the scene where they get excited when they discover she has a laptop with a 28.8kbps internet connection. Ha!

LenaClaire

Thaedydal wrote: »

My two faves are

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abby_Sciuto

I want to be Abby when I grow up

cedan

And techy men are always portrayed like lady killers????? The only muscle men ive ever seen in the big bang theory are the idiots that Penny dates.

Please get off your sexist horse.

Princess Peach

cedan wrote: »

And techy men are always portrayed like lady killers????? The only muscle men ive ever seen in the big bang theory are the idiots that Penny dates.

Please get off your sexist horse.

This is fairly true. You have proven some great examples of intelligent good looking women on tv and films, but most of the men are your typical nerds. Which I find adorable :-D I really love Sheldon!

But they're no super hero type actors in fairness

omniscient_toad

I haven't seen the film yet but there's long been accusation and rumor that Zuckerberg (facebook founder) was not the nicest guy and had a tendency to think of and treat women as objects and notches on the bedpost, and that he used his early success during college to to pick women up. Obviously I couldn't say for sure how much is true but is it possible the film was more a criticism of Zuckerbergs treatment of women rather than an attempt to show women as groupies/sluts? Like I said I've yet to see the film and they may have turned it into simple titillation, I'm just thinking of what I've read of Facebook and it's founding.

Ectoplasm

I saw the Social Network and loved it. Tbh, the lack of central female characters didn't bother me - it was based on a true story that focused on two guys.

True, there was a depiction of women as fairly shallow creatures who, while uninterested in these guys when they were nobodies, threw themselves at the guys when they were successful. Here is where I might get slaughtered .... I absolutely believe that this could have happened to these guys. There are plenty of women just like this around unfortunately. They are not representative of all women but they do give a lot of women a bad name.

In the case of the female characters in this particular movie, I think the reason they were peripheral was that it reflected the reality of the situation.

Nevyn

Is anyone else using the The Beschel test on movies and tv?

Have you ever heard of the Bechdel test? It's a test, popularized by cartoonist Alison Bechdel, that asks three questions of movies:

1. Are there at least two women characters in the film?
2. Who talk to each other?
3. About something other than a man?

If a film fulfills all three, then it passes the Bechdel test. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. The point of the Bechdel test, among other things, is to note that even here, in the twenty-first century, the role of women in film is very often to be support for the male roles or to keep the story and audience focused on the male protagonist

I don't really care how "the media" portrays stereotypes. It will probably just always be like that. Haven't seen The Social Network either.

I do a computer related course in college. I will most likely spend my life working with computers. Technology related stuff was all I've ever been good at growing up. I also don't know why it is that there seem to be more males in the industry.

Princess Peach

Thaedydal wrote: »

Is anyone else using the The Beschel test on movies and tv?

I will now have to do this with every film I watch!

Silverfish

cedan wrote: »

And techy men are always portrayed like lady killers????? The only muscle men ive ever seen in the big bang theory are the idiots that Penny dates.

Please get off your sexist horse.

I disagree, who doesn't like Roy from the IT Crowd?

LegacyUser

Silverfish wrote: »

I disagree, who doesn't like Roy from the IT Crowd?

I don't know if you're joking or not, but if you're not, he's not exactly portrayed as conventionally attractive. He's also portrayed as having bad social skills and failing to attract women.

Like, the female nerd in tBBT, is actually quite attractive IMO, just not portrayed as being conventionally so, which, I think, is the point of this topic - nerds/people involved with science, IT etc. being portrayed as stereotypically weird, not conventionally good looking or a little bit pathetic socially.

LegacyUser

Bernadette whilst quite odd/quirky is not supposed to be stupid as she is doing a postgrad in micrbiology-and she's def not ugly or boring looking imo, more cute and girly.

http://www.yapsestagle.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/vlcsnap-2010-02-13-17h31m02s16-e1266053864454.png


Also Penny doesn't know anything about science, but then how would she when she has never studied it.
I don't think they really portray Penny as stupid though, because every single time they need help with some type of social thing, the "geniuses" always have to ask Penny for her advice and help.
She's also really sharp tongued and quick witted and funny, and able to defend herself well.
So imo, I think they're actually showing more of a stereotype of 'nerdy' male scientists, than of a 'stupid girl'.

I know what you mean though. In American teen type of movies in particular the brainy females are generally portrayed as unattractive nerds, but so are the brainy males.

I also agree that on tv, an intelligent woman will usually be portrayed as an extremely beautiful genius, [almost a fantasy like figure], or else will be portrayed as a very unattractive nerd. It's rarely anywhere in between.
Lots of stereotypes are there for the males too though.

Silverfish

watdhellisgoingon wrote: »

I don't know if you're joking or not, but if you're not, he's not exactly portrayed as conventionally attractive. He's also portrayed as having bad social skills and failing to attract women.

Like, the female nerd in tBBT, is actually quite attractive IMO, just not portrayed as being conventionally so, which, I think, is the point of this topic - nerds/people involved with science, IT etc. being portrayed as stereotypically weird, not conventionally good looking or a little bit pathetic socially.

I certainly wasn't joking, and while I won't be holding my taste up as an example of all womankind, I will say he's definitely a sex symbol, and I'm not alone in that.

But I have to say, I find any movie / tv show, portraying a 'nerdy' type, male or female, always tries to portray them as almost a caricature rather than a real reflection of how these people are in reality.

Princess Peach

I think Roy is pretty cure.

But Moss, wow! He's just adorable, like Sheldon! I love them both.

But you can see how they don't cast the pretty boy actors who play other roles if you get me.

I feel that tv and films will portray characters the way they think viewers will respond best to them, and that we can't really generalise this into real life aka smart woman aren't attractive.

Look at any genre of person and there are stereotypes on tv and in films, athletes, businessmen, housewives. Its just because viewers respond better to a stereotype of a person that they are familiar with.

Chuchoter

I dislike the way women are shown in....most things. I can think of only one horror film where the female protagonist is able to walk in a straight line long enough to escape the bad guy as opposed to falling multiple times until the boyfriend steps in.

All 'coming of age' films involve a make over:Mean Girls, Clueless, Whip it, Princess Diaries etc. You cannot be successful unless you are beautiful.

In a lot of the teen boy films released lately, the girl is something the boy is owed. He is generally really nerdy, wants to go out with hot girl because she's hot, but when she says no she is a stuck up bitch.

In terms of techy things, girls are normally very stupid. Like the IT Crowd (which I love) Jen doesn't know very much about, well anything.

I'm sorry, all the smart women in BBT are ugly?

Say that again?
Also, I never considered Leslie 'ugly'. Not insanely pretty, but not ugly.

ztoical

It does seem to be more a Geek/Nerd thing and does effect both men and women. Films that focus on male geeks always go for the Bill Gates - your a dork now but 10 years from now you'll be worth millions then they'll want you just you wait and see! And with Geek Girls it is the take of the glasses and put on a push up bra and o my god now everyone wants you!

The Social Network may claim to be based on a true story but take that with a massive pinch of salt. None of the main people in it were consulted or involved in the production and have been very negative of the film and the screenwriter has said he wanted to tell a story rather then show facts. It's a shame as Fincher is a director whose done some strong female characters [panic room] unlike say Christopher Nolan who seems totally unable to have female characters that aren't big wooden cut outs there to prop up the male lead.

If you want to the ultimate in putting down both girls and geeks at the same time watch that Beauty and the Geek 'game' show were girls are total bimbos who only know about fashion and their nails while the uber geeks can't talk to girls and get dressed in the dark but O wait they get a make over and now they're hot and the bimbos have learned....well nothing really cus they're bimbos.

silvervixen84

Thaedydal wrote: »

My two faves are

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abby_Sciuto

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penelope_Garcia

I was scrolling down the page with my examples ready to go in my head when you posted this. I love Abby and Penelope, Abby moreso though!

Also



She was always the best techie at CTU. She may have been a bit grumpy, but was married with a baby by the end of 24 so can't have been totally socially inept.



Girl power in the 90s, Dana Scully

Wolflikeme

EMF2010 wrote: »

True, there was a depiction of women as fairly shallow creatures who, while uninterested in these guys when they were nobodies, threw themselves at the guys when they were successful.

And there are no such women like this? C'mon! This is fairly accurate of a type of woman out there.

Ectoplasm

Wolflikeme wrote: »

And there are no such women like this? C'mon! This is fairly accurate of a type of woman out there.

Did you read to the end of that paragraph??? To the part where I said "There are plenty of women just like this around unfortunately.They are not representative of all women but they do give a lot of women a bad name. "

I've seen some selective quoting in my time but that one was incredible.

Posy

ztoical wrote: »

It And with Geek Girls it is the take of the glasses and put on a push up bra and o my god now everyone wants you!

God, that really grinds my gears in films/TV. Girl has hair in a bun, glasses, horrible clothes.. Then suddenly the hair comes down, jacket comes off to reveal a tight/low-cut top and the glasses are discarded.

As a girl who used to wear glasses, the message I got from TV when growing up (especially from shows like Saved by the Bell!) was that smart ('nerdy') girls (or boys for that matter!) with glasses could not attract the opposite sex. Glasses were ugly and being smart around boys was a no-no. I totally believed this past my teens and had zero self esteem due to wearing glasses. The nerdy girl almost always had to have a make-over before the boys liked her! :rolleyes:

SugarHigh

Thaedydal wrote: »

Is anyone else using the The Beschel test on movies and tv?

What are you supposed to read from that exactly?
Most Hollywood movies are made by men so you can't blame them for focusing on something they will know
More about the same way they set most of their films in America.

goose2005

omniscient_toad wrote: »

I haven't seen the film yet but there's long been accusation and rumor that Zuckerberg (facebook founder) was not the nicest guy and had a tendency to think of and treat women as objects and notches on the bedpost, and that he used his early success during college to to pick women up.

Surely you mean "a sassy, enlightened, liberated sexual being"? Or is that one of the things only women can be? And in real life, he's still dating the same woman he was with before he founded the facebook.

DOC09UNAM

Eviledna wrote: »

I am so sick of the way women are depicted in most tech-related movies. I watched the Social Network yesterday and I could not get over how bloomin sexist that film is. The only reference to women throughout the whole thing is in a sexual context, rating them on their looks, the protagonists' easy lays thanks to all the facebook dosh, various wide-eyed ladies ready to hop into bed with the creator just because he made "the facebook".

Because it's a true story, and it's not sexist, some women are attracted to money, as I am 100% sure, are some men.

Eviledna wrote:

Which got me to thinking...how many decent references are there to women in tech movies, or even more so references to women involved in technology in films/tv at all?
If there is a reference to a girl in science/technology, she is always the unattractive nerd and the prettier one must be educated by the men to use the technology, as the other woman is marginalised.

As I am aware, there has been many attractive looking sciency women already been pointed out, but I shall add two more, simply because there is so many, oh so many more to choose from.

Eviledna wrote:

Case in point:



I love the big bang theory, but it grinds my gears that the only females that are shown are either pretty and stupid or smart and unattractive as a result.

You may also have noticed that most of the men in it are made out to be "Socially Retarded", and unable to talk to women etc etc, is that sexist? No.

Eviledna wrote:

There are so many women making brilliant headway in IT, engineering and science. We are so underrepresented in TV and Films, and I am so very sick of finding only male characters to relate to, and being made to feel therefore that as a girl, I really shouldn't be worrying my pretty little head about it.

I believe the bold bit has already been substantially proved to be completely false, if the only people you can relate to are the men, you need to watch some more programs or movies, because there are plenty out there.

Eviledna wrote:

I work in the web industry, I have a degree in computer science and I love everything about computers. I am a complete stereotypical "nerd", I love Star Trek and all Sci-fi, enjoy puzzles, and relax watching mythbusters. I don't like chick flicks or stereotypical girly mags. However, I am also young, social, relatively attractive (or so the OH says!:)) and the complete opposite of this:

Here you are actually doing something quite wrong, judging a woman by her appearance, and if a man did it, I'm sure you would scream sexist, everyone is attractive in their own way, just because you don't see it, doesn't make it so, also, just because you are extremely interested in computers, does not make it the norm, I can count on my two hands the amount of women that I know that are very interested in computers, and on the other scale, alot more that aren't.

Eviledna wrote:

I have a complete girl-crush on Kari Byron of mythbusters, only because she seems to be the only woman that is allowed to be simultaneously attractive and interested in Science.

I will agree that she is quite attractive, and very very very very smart, but she isn't the only one on tv allowed to be interested in science, here are a few examples, all from mythbusters aswell.

Eviledna wrote:

So (after that rant) I have two questions for you ladies...

Why are women in technology and science under-represented as strong female characters in TV and the media?

Is it because these films (that I seem to like) are targetting men and it is felt that men do not want to see attractive women in postitions of knowledge and power?

Again, both of those things are not true, as has been pointed out.

It just boggles the mind, why everything is called sexism, I mean, fair enough you don't think there's enough attractive women being depicted as nerds (which, has been proved, there is a decent amount) on the tv, but I can't see what sexism has to do with it?


- From a mans point of view, sorry for bothering you all with the long post.

sharkDawg

Racheal Taylor plays a signals analyst in the first transformer movie!

RedXIV

sharkDawg wrote: »

Racheal Taylor plays a signals analyst in the first transformer movie!

Dammit! thats what I was coming in to say. First thing that came to my head immediately

Isn't it about how women are portrayed in the media... people have come up with lots of examples of beautiful women who play roles in technology.....but the women are very attractive and hardly representative of women in general.

omniscient_toad

goose2005 wrote: »

Surely you mean "a sassy, enlightened, liberated sexual being"? Or is that one of the things only women can be? And in real life, he's still dating the same woman he was with before he founded the facebook.

Somewhat going offtopic but I don't believe being sexually liberated/routinely having different partners inherently conveys disrespect for the opposite sex in and of itself. I do however believe that one can go about it in a disrespectful manner where those slept with are not thought of or treated as a person, and this applies equally to both sexes. You can be "sassy and enlightened" and still treat people with honesty and respect.

As regards Zuckerberg, like I said I'm not speaking from a position of knowing what he did in reality, but the film is largely based on the book The Accidental Millionaires, in which he climbs the social strata by creating a website rating the attractiveness of female students, unbeknownst to them. I don't know him, he might be a decent and loyal individual, but the Zuckerberg from the book which largely informed the film was not particularly pleasant, hence my guess at the way the film portrayed his interactions with women.

pickarooney

Veronica and Mac from Veronica Mars were great characters - one was extremely attractive and highly skilled with technology, the other was a little less beautiful, though by no means ugly and a whiz with computers.

Catari Jaguar

What about the Matrix trilogy?

Leelaa22

Blowfish wrote: »

I'm not sure it's something to worry about all that much. Granted, there are less science/tech women portrayed in films/tv, but frankly that's true to life.

As for those that are there, I don't think the percentage of 'nerdy' vs 'attractive' is particularly higher than those played by men. It's pretty easy to find a bunch of examples of non-nerdy science/tech women:

Yay Kaylee! shiny.

Is the media shaped by society or IS society shaped by the media?

I don't know the answer to that.... but i would put a small bet that we are beginning to see more women in the media playing technological/ science based roles because its become more fashionable to portray strong independent woman that way....you could ask why aren't strong independent woman in the media portrayed as teacher/social workers/nurses....

I think a more important question is why people are so influenced by the media...children need to be taught and given the tools to question the media.

Eviledna

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Because it's a true story, and it's not sexist, some women are attracted to money, as I am 100% sure, are some men.

But to only have women in the film that are that way? Biased then?

You may also have noticed that most of the men in it are made out to be "Socially Retarded", and unable to talk to women etc etc, is that sexist? No.

I only ever said that the Social Network was sexist, but I did complain about the way women are depicted in tBBT. I agree, it's complete crap that men are depicted that way too. It's prejudiced against people interested in sci-fi/technology/science/engineering.

Here you are actually doing something quite wrong, judging a woman by her appearance, and if a man did it, I'm sure you would scream sexist, everyone is attractive in their own way, just because you don't see it, doesn't make it so, also, just because you are extremely interested in computers, does not make it the norm, I can count on my two hands the amount of women that I know that are very interested in computers, and on the other scale, alot more that aren't.

I'm not in the habit of screaming sexist, christ I only said that I found the Social Network to be sexist!! And I said that I do not look/act like blossom in glasses. I was referring to her character in tBBT.:)

It just boggles the mind, why everything is called sexism, I mean, fair enough you don't think there's enough attractive women being depicted as nerds (which, has been proved, there is a decent amount) on the tv, but I can't see what sexism has to do with it?
- From a mans point of view, sorry for bothering you all with the long post.

This is interesting: people have very strong reactions to the word sexist these days, granted probably due to overuse. I said I found the film sexist, but throughout the thread my whole post has been interpreted to mean that everything that I mentioned in the OP is sexist. It's not. I implied that it's prejudiced to techy people/women. As this is the ladies lounge I kept it to the ladies perspective.

I'm glad that so many examples of smart strong female characters can be found, and thanks to everyone who contributed. I'm convinced, there's more than I thought!
I know there are many ladies on here that know what I was trying to get at. It just grinds a little each time when a techy woman is represented as abnormal/nerdy/socially inept/specky, when this couldn't be further from the truth in reality. Because it's a minority doesn't mean that stereotypes should be upheld.
It's not a life or death issue, just an irk.

But thanks for playing everyone.;)

Eviledna

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm sorry, all the smart women in BBT are ugly?
Say that again?
Also, I never considered Leslie 'ugly'. Not insanely pretty, but not ugly.

I won't say it again, because I never said it in the first place!! I said unattractive, not "ugly". As in not attractive to the other characters in the show.

But you are right both leslie and bernadette are very pretty, and depicted as attractive (sometimes!) in the show.

krankykitty

Have to agree with those who mentioned Abby from NCIS, Veronica Mars and Chloe from 24, I love those characters! Apart from Chloe, they break the science/IT geek=socially retarded sterotype

Also, the character Lisbeth Salander from the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo series is another cool tech woman in books/film.

Perhaps it is a reflection on society though - any time I attend any technology seminar, at the breaks the queue for the men's toilet is out the door, while the women's toilets are free!