Marathon Sub-Forum?

donothoponpop

The front page of the forum is too taken up with similar marathon threads and marathon chat. We're (mods) wondering if it might be time to create a specific "Marathon" sub-forum, for training advice, general marathon chat, etc. Please leave a bit of feedback in this thread if you are for/against the idea, and thoughts on what should go in there, if it goes ahead (for instance, should specific marathon threads (DM, Berlin, etc) stay in the Events sub-forum, or be included in the new marathon one?

The thinking behind this is just to keep the main page from being so marathon dominated, and to package all the marathon threads and chat into one section.

tunney

Would be nice to move the marathon stuff out.

There really is very little interesting content or debate in the marathon threads. very little interesting news and way too many "help me to a marathon in <insert too little time>weeks and i want to run <insert walking time>" threads.

Crap I selected the wrong option, meant to vote change.

donothoponpop

I'm happy with the way things are.

tunney wrote: »

Crap I selected the wrong option, meant to vote change.

Fixed the numbers to reflect this, although your name will still appear in the other column (can't fix this).

RayCun

I think it makes sense to keep all events in the events forum.

Is 'marathons' too specific? What about 'running', to include the threads from people who are just starting out, or asking about hill running, or how to run a faster 5k...?

And what about turning it around? The problem seems to be that this is Athletics/Running/Triathlon and most of the discussion is about 'Running'. Why move the busiest discussion to a subforum?
Why not have an Athletics subforum and a Triathlon (or Multisport, to include adventure races) subforum?
Or subfora for all three?

RacoonQueen

I voted to leave it. Reckon if you're going to make one sub-forum you should probably make 3. How do you decide what exactly goes into the marathon forum? Do we leave half marathon threads, hill running, 10ks etc on the main forum?

The triathletes are typically more disciplined than he road runners and keep things to big threads. I'd love to see more tri/athletics threads on here it's up to the triathletes/athletics followers to get those threads up and running for those of us not in the know, instead of getting annoyed that the forum is marathon dominated...

RayCun

I think the people primarily interested in 'triathlon' or 'athletics' are smaller groups, with fewer newbies. 'Running' - marathons and shorter distances - gets more posters and more new posters (who won't realise they should be posting to a subforum). A and T topics are still going to move off the front page faster than their fans would like, and the mods will have more work moving threads to a marathon subforum than they would moving A or T threads to subfora.

But I don't mind, and it's worth a try.

RayCun

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I'd love to see more tri/athletics threads on here it's up to the triathletes/athletics followers to get those threads up and running for those of us not in the know, instead of getting annoyed that the forum is marathon dominated...

If you're interested in triathlon, surely what you want is for the good triathlon threads to stay visible for longer rather than to have 4 of the 20 non-sticky front page posts to be about triathlon?

misty floyd

I think you'll get a lot of cross posting having a 'marathon' forum. You'll have people posting in the events, the general and the marathon page asking about ‘can I do this marathon’ etc. So the question is what is more of a pain: Cross posting or having too much marathon talk on the main page?

No matter what is decided it isn't going to be perfect for everyone, obviously. I think the current set up works. Don’t get me wrong, selfishly, I’d like a marathon sub forum because that’s what most interests me but I think overall it might get messy/confusing.

If I was a mod, I’d vote leave it alone. Less moving posts around and if people want to talk about running marathons more so than anything else, so be it, it’s their forum too.
As a non mod, and a person that is interested in marathons especially, I want to vote for the marathon sub forum. That’s the problem with the voting, people will vote for what they want, not necessarily what is best for everyone.

I'm thinking about this too much trying to avoid work.

Cabaal

I'm happy with the way things are.

How about a Half-Marathon/Marathon sub forum?
Def a good idea tbh

I have no interest in cross country etc

robinph

Unsure myself.

I don't like the mega thread format though as...well they very soon become mega and you then can't actually find the gems of information that you after so easily. If any of the things discussed in ART can support it own forum though then it would be marathons, and that doesn't include that 10km round the city in June.

I'd be for putting the specific event topics into the proposed marathon sub-forum as well though. Although they would soon gain duplicate threads there of their own accord anyway.

Have to be careful with annoying Ross-Conor with all these changing things around between Athletics -> Athletics + Marathon/ Triathlon -> Athletics/ Running/ Triathlon -> Athlectics/ Running/ Triathlon + Marathon. How many times do we get to move things around? Traffic is almost certainly higher now through these various ART'ist fora though than the last time we changed about.

The marathon does get more interest from people though because it is the more common event that people have heard of. People don't come on here and claim it has been their life long desire to run a 5km before their 30th birthday or similar, marathons do have that aspect though so will always generate more traffic. Add in those crazies that keep going past the finish line of a marathon and have a "26.2+" forum.

--amadeus--

Is that the sound of a wheel turning full circle?

I broadly agree with Robin but with a few extra points. First I wouldn't agree that the forum is too taken up with marathon threads. I mean who decided that? How much is too much? The entire point of Boards is to allow like minded people a platform to discuss common interests and if people are positing about the marathon it is because that is what they want to talk about. The DCM is one of teh biggest mass participation events in the country and it's inevitable that the month or two before and the 6 - 8 weeks after it will see a surge in marathon related traffic. But it doesn't last forever and will die down soon enough. Personally I am very uncomfortable with a prescriptive "You can talk about topics X, Y and Z but topic A is ghettoised into this megathread". If the forum has lots of marathon related talk it is because the marathon is teh blue ribbon event for recreational road runners. And the vast and overwhelming majority on here are recreational road runners. If there are lots of marathon threads then that is what runners want to talk about and I can't see why that is an issue in a running forum. If people want more threads on other areas and more variety of conversation then start them, don't cut back what is there.

I also think that a single sub forum for Marathons will be unworkable and will - in the long term - have exactly the same arguments used against it as were used to kill the old "Marathon & Triathlon" forum (duplication of content and confusion). And in a year or 18 months whoever the Mods are at that stage will be debating the merits of a merge and letting topics stand or fall on thier own merits (exactly as they are supposed to now)

All that said I would be in favour of a sub division of teh forum, I just think that if it is going to be done it needs to be comprehensive. Have a forum for Road Running & Racing, one for T&F, one for Tri (as a linked sub forum under Cycling and Swimming), one for Mountain / Ultra and Adventure racing, etc. That way there is minimal confusion or duplication and it should be clear where new topics go for newbies and experienced posters. Likewise it clears room for more niche topics of conversation to grow.

robinph

^ What he said.

The link from Cycling and Swimming should be something that is worth having already back to here as that might generate more tri topics.

ecoli

I'm happy with the way things are.

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Is that the sound of a wheel turning full circle?

I broadly agree with Robin but with a few extra points. First I wouldn't agree that the forum is too taken up with marathon threads. I mean who decided that? How much is too much? The entire point of Boards is to allow like minded people a platform to discuss common interests and if people are positing about the marathon it is because that is what they want to talk about. The DCM is one of teh biggest mass participation events in the country and it's inevitable that the month or two before and the 6 - 8 weeks after it will see a surge in marathon related traffic. But it doesn't last forever and will die down soon enough. Personally I am very uncomfortable with a prescriptive "You can talk about topics X, Y and Z but topic A is ghettoised into this megathread". If the forum has lots of marathon related talk it is because the marathon is teh blue ribbon event for recreational road runners. And the vast and overwhelming majority on here are recreational road runners. If there are lots of marathon threads then that is what runners want to talk about and I can't see why that is an issue in a running forum. If people want more threads on other areas and more variety of conversation then start them, don't cut back what is there.

I also think that a single sub forum for Marathons will be unworkable and will - in the long term - have exactly the same arguments used against it as were used to kill the old "Marathon & Triathlon" forum (duplication of content and confusion). And in a year or 18 months whoever the Mods are at that stage will be debating the merits of a merge and letting topics stand or fall on thier own merits (exactly as they are supposed to now)

All that said I would be in favour of a sub division of teh forum, I just think that if it is going to be done it needs to be comprehensive. Have a forum for Road Running & Racing, one for T&F, one for Tri (as a linked sub forum under Cycling and Swimming), one for Mountain / Ultra and Adventure racing, etc. That way there is minimal confusion or duplication and it should be clear where new topics go for newbies and experienced posters. Likewise it clears room for more niche topics of conversation to grow.

Personally i dont see the sub forum as cutting down on marathon talk as there will still be the same amount of threads within the sub forum but i feel that it will encourage non marathon talk to develop.

I can see where you are coming from regarding give the people what the people want but i think this is a way of trying to encourage more people to the forum of a non marathon related interested. I have known alot of people who have joined the forum for brief spells only to say "its just for marathon talk" which can be understandable if you see 50% of the threads on main forum marathon related. These aims would be to try to appeal to a wider audience rather than creating a niche. More members from a wider range of disciplines will also have a positive knock on effect regarding a wider knowledge base who can contribute with informative posts. There is definitely a body of running related forum users in Ireland which Leevale message board used to possess which could be a great addition to the boards membership.

The market is definitely road racing driven without a doubt but it is just as easy to run a track race during the summer and it is something that the wider public does not realise.

tHE vAGGABOND

I dont see the problem with one busy forum myself, you dont read what you dont want to, skip over it. I'm not a huge fan of having loads of sub forums which are not that busy, and prefer one/fewer busier forums.

But I understand some people dont like that, so democracy wins.

That being said, I do like RayCun's idea, of a "Running" forum. I'm only in this forum to read about running so it suits me fine.

That said, we create a running forum, and the main forum is then not all that busy, with only a few posts a day. I dont like that [and find it hard to understand why others do like that], but thems the breaks I guess

RayCun

I don't think the 'problem' is specifically marathon talk though - its that most contributors are 'joggers'. Not track runners, not triathletes, and not from track & field backgrounds. Even if you hid all the marathon stuff on another forum, you'd have lots of threads from people just starting to run - what plan do I follow, what clothes do I wear, what watch do I need, what shoes should I buy, you'll have the half-marathoners, you'll have the people gearing up for a local road race. And I don't honestly think they're going to take up track racing just because the marathon stuff has been hidden.

If you want to encourage athletics discussion to develop, or to be able to point people to a place where they will find athletics discussion without it being drowned out by marathon talk - surely the best way to do that is to have an athletics subforum?

robinph

Definitely would be against the idea of a separate forum for "running". Having anything over 26miles in a separate area shouldn't cause any problems as the people that are looking to chat about marathons can go there or will find their way there quick enough as they will have, usually, not started running that same day.

Anyone just starting out shouldn't have to go anywhere other than the main ART forum though and that is where any discussion on gear should go (until Krusty gets his own gadgetry forum) and anything about what to buy, where should I train, can I do a 5k or anything else should be in the main area.

On the first page at the moment there isn't actually the massive amount of marathon threads that this thread suggest there might be. There are 6 threads with the word "marathon in the title, one is on about halves, one is a redirect to the mega thread, one is this thread...that only leave three and two of those are on about NYC. I think the mega thread has only actually eaten up one thread so far anyway so can't claim that has cut down on them yet.

There are three threads about triathlons as well, and you should really include the swim, bike, run on in that as well to make four. So tris are currently outnumbering marathons.

Then there are plenty of other topics being discussed, Garmins (always), silly shoes with fingers, books, probably someone complaining about soccer in the OT thread, making money, Haile, other idols.

What more variety do people want?

Pisco Sour

I'm happy with the way things are.

donothoponpop wrote: »

The front page of the forum is too taken up with similar marathon threads and marathon chat. We're (mods) wondering if it might be time to create a specific "Marathon" sub-forum, for training advice, general marathon chat, etc. Please leave a bit of feedback in this thread if you are for/against the idea, and thoughts on what should go in there, if it goes ahead (for instance, should specific marathon threads (DM, Berlin, etc) stay in the Events sub-forum, or be included in the new marathon one?

The thinking behind this is just to keep the main page from being so marathon dominated, and to package all the marathon threads and chat into one section.

Great idea. The marathon is just 2 of 47 events in the sport. From looking at this forum you wouldnt think that!

donothoponpop

I'm happy with the way things are.

Thanks for all the comments so far guys, keep them coming.

--amadeus-- wrote: »

First I wouldn't agree that the forum is too taken up with marathon threads. I mean who decided that?

There's a poll at the top, (which you haven't voted on yet), it will be used to decide what direction we take.

shels4ever

I'm happy with the way things are.

I'd go with a new sub form for the marathon, Don't think it would result in any reduction in Marathon threads, you can then have marathon specific ? Mega threads with links to some of the marathon training log and sub XX threads. As it is the blue ribbon event it should have its own home.

Pisco Sour

I'm happy with the way things are.

misty floyd wrote: »

I think you'll get a lot of cross posting having a 'marathon' forum. You'll have people posting in the events, the general and the marathon page asking about ‘can I do this marathon’ etc. So the question is what is more of a pain: Cross posting or having too much marathon talk on the main page?

How about instead of a Marathon sub forum, we have a Road Running sub forum. That way all training advice with regards, 5K, 5M, 10K, 10M, HM and M can go in that forum?

xebec

04072511 wrote: »

Great idea. The marathon is just 2 of 47 events in the sport. From looking at this forum you wouldnt think that!

Correct, but what you do get from looking at this forum is the level of interest in marathon vs. other events.

Moving the marathon talk to another sub-forum will make the main forum overly quiet IMO. This is currently one of the busiest fora on Boards, so it must be doing something right.

I'd just like to reiterate a point made above, if people want more triathlon/track etc. threads then it is up to them to create them. If there is interest then these threads will stay on the front page longer. I don't think it's any benefit to relegate the busiest (most important?) part of our forum to a sub-forum for the supposed benefit of these (more niche?) topics.

I've voted to keep it the way it is, it seems to me to work pretty well. I've gotten a lot out of this forum (and feel I've contributed a little back) but having an extra sub-forum will be a frustration TBH, it's hard enough keeping track of the 2/3 sub-fora that are already here!

Pisco Sour

I'm happy with the way things are.

RayCun wrote: »

If you want to encourage athletics discussion to develop, or to be able to point people to a place where they will find athletics discussion without it being drowned out by marathon talk - surely the best way to do that is to have an athletics subforum?

I dont know. It seems a bit much to confine about 45 of 47 T&F events to a sub-forum and have the main page of an Athletics forum just about 1 event. Doesnt seem like a good way of promoting the sport by hiding the vast majority of it away. If you hae a marathon or road running sub forum, people will always find it but with Track and Field that is not the case. It needs more exposure.

tunney

RayCun wrote: »

I don't think the 'problem' is specifically marathon talk though - its that most contributors are 'joggers'. Not track runners, not triathletes, and not from track & field backgrounds. Even if you hid all the marathon stuff on another forum, you'd have lots of threads from people just starting to run - what plan do I follow, what clothes do I wear, what watch do I need, what shoes should I buy, you'll have the half-marathoners, you'll have the people gearing up for a local road race. And I don't honestly think they're going to take up track racing just because the marathon stuff has been hidden.

If you want to encourage athletics discussion to develop, or to be able to point people to a place where they will find athletics discussion without it being drowned out by marathon talk - surely the best way to do that is to have an athletics subforum?

or call a spade a spade and have a "just starting" sub forum and lump all that crap in and keep the proper stuff to the main forum.

Would cover marathons, halfs, 10ks, triathlons - lump all the beginner stuff in there?

xebec

Or expand on tunney's suggestion - move all the 'proper stuff' into a sub-forum and require an entry standard (sub-20 5k?) to get into it :pac:

tunney

xebec wrote: »

Or expand on tunney's suggestion - move all the 'proper stuff' into a sub-forum and require an entry standard (sub-20 5k?) to get into it :pac:

Thought we'd agreed that 16:30 was the minimum required to be considered a runner at 5km distance?

xebec

tunney wrote: »

Thought we'd agreed that 16:30 was the minimum required to be considered a runner at 5km distance?

Oops sorry! Was just giving myself an outside chance of gaining entry over the next few years... Maybe a BQ marathon would be another (easier) standard?

RayCun

04072511 wrote: »

I dont know. It seems a bit much to confine about 45 of 47 T&F events to a sub-forum and have the main page of an Athletics forum just about 1 event. Doesnt seem like a good way of promoting the sport by hiding the vast majority of it away.

I guess we should have an Athletics forum, with 45 to 47 subfora, one for every T&F event.

Boards is not an advertising agency for the IAAF, its a discussion forum. In the category Athletics/Running/Triathlon, most people are interested in discussing running, in particular road running, a lot of that marathon distance running. That's just how it is. Very few people come here to talk about shot put technique, and that's unlikely to change.

tunney

xebec wrote: »

Oops sorry! Was just giving myself an outside chance of gaining entry over the next few years... Maybe a BQ marathon would be another (easier) standard?

Looking at the qualification times on http://www.baa.org/Races/Boston-Marathon/Participant-Information/Qualifying.aspx

BG - 16 minutes would be reasonable.

donothoponpop

I'm happy with the way things are.

robinph wrote: »

Definitely would be against the idea of a separate forum for "running". Having anything over 26miles in a separate area shouldn't cause any problems as the people that are looking to chat about marathons can go there or will find their way there quick enough as they will have, usually, not started running that same day.

Anyone just starting out shouldn't have to go anywhere other than the main ART forum though and that is where any discussion on gear should go (until Krusty gets his own gadgetry forum) and anything about what to buy, where should I train, can I do a 5k or anything else should be in the main area.

On the first page at the moment there isn't actually the massive amount of marathon threads that this thread suggest there might be. There are 6 threads with the word "marathon in the title, one is on about halves, one is a redirect to the mega thread, one is this thread...that only leave three and two of those are on about NYC. I think the mega thread has only actually eaten up one thread so far anyway so can't claim that has cut down on them yet.

There are three threads about triathlons as well, and you should really include the swim, bike, run on in that as well to make four. So tris are currently outnumbering marathons.

Then there are plenty of other topics being discussed, Garmins (always), silly shoes with fingers, books, probably someone complaining about soccer in the OT thread, making money, Haile, other idols.

What more variety do people want?

Very good post Robin.

There won't be a seperation into "Running" (or "road running") as that will mean a lot of cross posting, which we had a couple of years back under separate forums. The purpose of this suggestion is to box a lot of the marathon threads- in particular the ones like "can I run the XXX marathon", or general "how do I train for..." together, in order to free up more space on the front page for non-marathon threads. I tried yesterday to start a marathon megathread for this purpose, but that isn't a good idea, its impractical.

More than one poster has said that the forum reflects the interests of those who frequent it: this is absolutely correct, but what we (mods) are actively trying to do is to make it more friendly to other disciplines, and hopefully not dilute the (obvious) interest in marathons too. We'll keep an eye on the polls, and comments, over the next few days, so keep them coming.

RayCun

xebec wrote: »

Or expand on tunney's suggestion - move all the 'proper stuff' into a sub-forum and require an entry standard (sub-20 5k?) to get into it :pac:

Athletics/Running/Triathlon/Jogging

shels4ever

I'm happy with the way things are.

RayCun wrote: »

Athletics/Running/Triathlon/Jogging

Athletics/Running/Triathlon/Jogging/Sprinting/Jumping/walking/Throwing/Crawling

yungwan

I am not an "experienced runner" as many of you all are, but I would like to give my 2c, if thats ok.

I dont think there should be a marathon sub forum as I like as a beginner, that everyone, regardless of level or experience, can all post their questions in the one area and get feedback of others.

Personally I think that if there is a marathon only thread, many starting out would feel like they couldnt necessarily ask questions or post in that forum, without others frowning at their "inexperienced questions". I definately dont think a "sub XX Marathon" forum is the way to go either.

Maybe I am taking up some of the posts wrong here, but it feels as though many think beginners and their constant questions are tiresome. But was everyone here not a novice at one point?

I agree that there can be too much repetition with questions, in particular the "Can I run a Marathon in X weeks..." but surely it's the mods job to filter these appropriately or sticky them as necessary? (I know this takes a lot of work and is no easy task!)

EDIT: And I dont necessarily mean just those starting out at the very start - 5K, 10 K etc, but those running their first Marathon - as these are novices too. Are some of you proposing that even these people shouldnt be allowed into the proposed marathon forum?

Thanks.

Fluorescence

Following on yungwan's train of thought... Maybe someone could throw together an FAQ for newbies? It could include links to training programmes, advice on watches, explanation of shoes/gait analysis and all that jazz. It would potentially free up the forum so that the experienced runners here aren't answering the same newb questions all the time.

Regarding a specific marathon sub-forum, I'm not sure what the benefit of that would be. I personally haven't noticed a dominating amount of marathon related threads. If some of the more frequent queries were answered in the FAQ I suggested above, that might negate a couple of threads?

Of course, all of this is coming from a lurking newbie's POV, but there you have it :pac:

tunney

yungwan wrote: »

I am not an "experienced runner" as many of you all are, but I would like to give my 2c, if thats ok.

I dont think there should be a marathon sub forum as I like as a beginner, that everyone, regardless of level or experience, can all post their questions in the one area and get feedback of others.

but it is tending to be the case that the feedback you get is from only other beginners

yungwan wrote: »

Personally I think that if there is a marathon only thread, many starting out would feel like they couldnt necessarily ask questions or post in that forum, without others frowning at their "inexperienced questions". I definately dont think a "sub XX Marathon" forum is the way to go either.

Maybe I am taking up some of the posts wrong here, but it feels as though many think beginners and their constant questions are tiresome. But was everyone here not a novice at one point?

Yip in my case - and thats fantastic and all but its not our job to handle hold every newbie.

yungwan wrote: »

I agree that there can be too much repetition with questions, in particular the "Can I run a Marathon in X weeks..." but surely it's the mods job to filter these appropriately or sticky them as necessary? (I know this takes a lot of work and is no easy task!)

To be honest in my eyes the ART board is lacking any decent conversation or discussion and that combined with inability to ask injury questions means I'm stuggling to remember why I read this board.

robinph

tunney wrote: »

but it is tending to be the case that the feedback you get is from only other beginners

Yip in my case - and thats fantastic and all but its not our job to handle hold every newbie.

But moving the people that have been around the block a few more times off to another area isn't going to help with getting any questions of the n00bies answered...and they will always have questions...and they will always be the same as ones that have been asked before. There isn't really anything that can be done about that, and I don't think we should try to either.

yungwan

Hmmm, as I said I do see why some questions become tiresome, but I guess you dont have to answer those questions!

Im just curious as to when would novices stop being novices? And therefore stop being tiresome?! Genuinely interested.

I would like to do a maratho in the next year but if the proposed marathon sub-forum happened I dont think Id feel welcome.

Thanks for your response anyway.

ecoli

I'm happy with the way things are.

yungwan wrote: »

I dont think there should be a marathon sub forum as I like as a beginner, that everyone, regardless of level or experience, can all post their questions in the one area and get feedback of others.

The point would not be to exclude these people but rather have a specific forum like the training logs one where people with an interest in marathon running can advise. If there are few threads on "I want to run my first 5k, 10k, Marathon" on the main page most likely people are not gonna go into all three offering advice by breaking into a sub section may actually help to prevent people avoiding by seeing a couple of similar threads

yungwan wrote: »

Personally I think that if there is a marathon only thread, many starting out would feel like they couldnt necessarily ask questions or post in that forum, without others frowning at their "inexperienced questions". I definately dont think a "sub XX Marathon" forum is the way to go either.

I dont think that people are talking about entry levels to the threads but rather like the training logs target times but again that was an idea from a poster rather than an actual proposal

yungwan wrote: »

Maybe I am taking up some of the posts wrong here, but it feels as though many think beginners and their constant questions are tiresome. But was everyone here not a novice at one point?

This is true and i think this is one of the reasons for the growth in recent times of the forum is the openess and willingness to help by more experienced boardsies

yungwan wrote: »

I agree that there can be too much repetition with questions, in particular the "Can I run a Marathon in X weeks..." but surely it's the mods job to filter these appropriately or sticky them as necessary? (I know this takes a lot of work and is no easy task!)

The problem with filtering is by moving them into large "megathreads" is that so many posts often little gems of information are lost when 5 or 6 posts come in over it

yungwan wrote: »

EDIT: And I dont necessarily mean just those starting out at the very start - 5K, 10 K etc, but those running their first Marathon - as these are novices too. Are some of you proposing that even these people shouldnt be allowed into the proposed marathon forum?

No one is suggesting that this was in reference to a previous thread as part of a joke.

My previous post was made in a non moderator position and think it is interesting to get all aspects of the debate. Again i think that the majority will speak for itself in the end. I dont think people see this as a dig at novices but rather marathon related topics consuming the message board

yungwan

ecoli wrote: »

The point would not be to exclude these people but rather have a specific forum like the training logs one where people with an interest in marathon running can advise.


I dont think that people are talking about entry levels to the threads but rather like the training logs target times but again that was an idea from a poster rather than an actual proposal



This is true and i think this is one of the reasons for the growth in recent times of the forum is the openess and willingness to help by more experienced boardsies

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my concerns ecoli.
I really appreciate it.
I was just worried some people would be excluded.

Thanks again.

RayCun

fluorescence wrote: »

Following on yungwan's train of thought... Maybe someone could throw together an FAQ for newbies? It could include links to training programmes, advice on watches, explanation of shoes/gait analysis and all that jazz.

I have every intention of doing something like this over the next few weeks. The problems are that it will be advice for novices by someone who is pretty much a novice himself (I'll probably put posts up in the 2010 DCM novices thread for feedback first, so it will be the collective wisdom... of a bunch of novices), and that once written it'll never be read.
But I'll do it anyway.
Probably.

donothoponpop

I'm happy with the way things are.

yungwan wrote: »

Maybe I am taking up some of the posts wrong here, but it feels as though many think beginners and their constant questions are tiresome. But was everyone here not a novice at one point?

I agree that there can be too much repetition with questions, in particular the "Can I run a Marathon in X weeks..." but surely it's the mods job to filter these appropriately or sticky them as necessary? (I know this takes a lot of work and is no easy task!)

EDIT: And I dont necessarily mean just those starting out at the very start - 5K, 10 K etc, but those running their first Marathon - as these are novices too. Are some of you proposing that even these people shouldnt be allowed into the proposed marathon forum?

Thanks.

The proposed forum would be of more benefit for newer runners and marathon novices, in that marathon training programs (and probably stickied FAQ's) would be found there. It would be marathon-specific, in keeping with the popularity of 26.2 as a "life goal" for many people.

Its never going to be the case here (under the current mods) that anyone should feel excluded.

bart simpson

in my opinion having a marathon sub forum wont improve the site....i don't think it will increase the participation of non marathon runners on this site, but it could affect the participation of new people to the site because it will make the information which they want behind another door which they might not open(or see) ( a clothes shop doesn't display its popular stuff in its store, its right in the front window)
what is the primary function for this site....is it to facilitate discussion or promote certain types of discussion?

--amadeus--

donothoponpop wrote: »

There's a poll at the top, (which you haven't voted on yet), it will be used to decide what direction we take.

My issue was with the "too many" in the OP, inference being that "too many" marathon threads are here & that this is a problem. A stance I personally don't agree with. And I haven't voted in the poll because neither option is particularly appealing.

There is a recycling of experience in the forum - this years DCM novices thread was led by one of last years novices. Next years will be the same. This weeks newbies are next years experienced old heads. Experience gets passed along.

But I can 100% see where Tunney is coming from (for once!). Interesting conversation happens among peers with different ideas, thoughts and experiences. While a raw beginner to Tri hoping to do a Sprint might learn a lot from a sub 10 IM like Tunney there is little Tunney will learn from them. Likewise there is nothing that a novice training for a first marathon could teach someone like KC.

But here is the thing - while Tunney or KC could advise the newbs they are not always the best people to do so. Someone like Ray or RK who have just recently gone through that cycle and who still remember all the mistakes they made are better placed. Speaking personally I pay far more attention to training advice from my peers (as found in the sub 3 marathon thread for example) than I would from someone just starting out or who has never trained for an endurance event. There is a hierarchy - not of value but of experience. And you'll get the most interesting and worthwhile conversation amongst people at similar levels in that hierarchy.

But with such a sprawling forum there is no ready "community" any more. There must be dozens of people on Boards with an interest in T&F. But they will never post on here because it's filled with Road Running stuff. And I'll bet there are dozens of serious, fast and talented runners out there who would love to talk training with thier peers but who won't come on here because it's full of novices. And I know from seeing the posts that a lot of the novices are scared off by the times that some of teh big names on here have posted. So everyone loses - the size of the community is self defeating.

So the answer - IMO _ is to divide the community into more manageable chunks. Give every sector a peer group to talk to. More interesting and relevant discussions would happen there. Because as it stands I'm like Tunney - this was a great and vibrant forum but I think it might have teh post count but not the interest any more.

RacoonQueen

RayCun wrote: »

If you're interested in triathlon, surely what you want is for the good triathlon threads to stay visible for longer rather than to have 4 of the 20 non-sticky front page posts to be about triathlon?

If the thread is that good why is it not staying on the front page? Look at the people who browse the forum, I see a lot of triathletes regularly lurking, yet they rarely post. Why not? It's up to them to get threads started if they want to discuss triathlons/training/gear/racing/nutrition. Even in the logs the majority of threads are from long distance runners. MCOS is great for getting tri threads started, and, keeping them going.

It's also not that much effort for me to go onto page two of the forum to read a triathlon thread.

The majority of active posters on here are road runners. While a lot of tri and track athletes just lurk. If you want advice on something, ask. If you want to discuss an event, start a thread.

Anyway, it doesn't make a difference to me either way. However, I do think it would be a shame to 'relegate' marathons to their own sub forum.

robinph

Where do new triathletes come from?

New runners come from sitting on the couch and then deciding they shouldn't be any more, and I would expect that new swimmers and cyclists come from the same place.

Do people get the urge to start off as a triathlete though, or are they people who have been running/ swimming/ cycling for a while and then decide they need the extra challenge? I suspect they more often come from already being a bit more active in one sport or another and then decide to try three at a time, for that reason the level of a new triathlete is different to a new individual sport person, so they probably don't have as many of the same type of questions as you get with someone just starting off becoming active from scratch. Therefore they will generate less traffic.

Cabaal

I'm happy with the way things are.

So are we better off making a Tri sub-forum given its in a minority?
Or atleast appears to be

tunney

robinph wrote: »

Where do new triathletes come from?

New runners come from sitting on the couch and then deciding they shouldn't be any more, and I would expect that new swimmers and cyclists come from the same place.

Do people get the urge to start off as a triathlete though, or are they people who have been running/ swimming/ cycling for a while and then decide they need the extra challenge? I suspect they more often come from already being a bit more active in one sport or another and then decide to try three at a time, for that reason the level of a new triathlete is different to a new individual sport person, so they probably don't have as many of the same type of questions as you get with someone just starting off becoming active from scratch.

Can only speak for myself. I needed a new bike, saw one with funky handlebars that pointed out. Asked what it was for, was told. Bought it. then realised I couldn't swim at all, didn't cycle except for commuting, and didn't really run bar one 5 miler in the park that took about 40-45 minutes during my "stop being a fattie programme"

Did I know a single thing swimming/cycling/running? No.

Triathletes need not, and quite often don't, have any background in any sport.

tunney

Cabaal wrote: »

So are we better off making a Tri sub-forum given its in a minority?
Or atleast appears to be

Emmm but most triathletes run too. I'm very interested in discussions on 10kms that are run byt fast people (< 32) and fast 5kms(< 15) and fast marathons (< 2:30) and i want to be able to read discussions about that without trawling through pages of crap about "what t-shirt should I wear?"

xebec

yungwan wrote: »

Hmmm, as I said I do see why some questions become tiresome, but I guess you dont have to answer those questions!

Im just curious as to when would novices stop being novices? And therefore stop being tiresome?! Genuinely interested.

I would like to do a maratho in the next year but if the proposed marathon sub-forum happened I dont think Id feel welcome.

Thanks for your response anyway.

Just want to clarify my posts above, they were supposed to be in a joking manner about some of the elitism that you find on message boards. I don't think we have too much of that here and I wouldn't want it to exist or be created. (I can't speak for tunney though :pac:)

I'm all for inclusion of everyone. Yes, the same questions do get asked all the time, but also they are generally either answered or the person is pointed in the direction of the answer. I've gotten a lot out of this message board so I have no problem giving some time back and getting people interested in our sport - be that long, short, road, XC or multi-sport.

I think the majority of posters on here hold a similar viewpoint, having met quite a few of them in real life they tend to be nice, friendly and welcoming people.

Just because someone doesn't sees themselves as being a novice doesn't mean that others will consider them such. I didn't run my first marathon this year but I was still active in the novices DCM thread, providing input where I could but also getting wisdom from others who were experiencing similar situations as I was going through.

Back OT, I still don't think there is an over-abundance of marathon threads on the front page. This time of year you are bound to get more than at other times. The main point IMO is that it reflects the interest of the majority of users of this board and as another poster has already mentioned putting them in a sub-forum will add another level of detail/complexity (can't find the right word) that the new user will either not want to go to or will miss completely, therefore us losing out on a new member of our community.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

RayCun

--amadeus-- wrote: »

So the answer - IMO _ is to divide the community into more manageable chunks. Give every sector a peer group to talk to.

Subfora for Tri, Athletics, sub 4 marathon, sub 3? The latter two not enforced (ie, you don't need a qualifying time to get in), but will give more space for the more experienced people? And a novice marathon subforum?

I think the way to go is to expect all of the newbies to start in the main forum, and as they get more experienced to spend more time in a subforum. The main forum is the natural point of arrival.

xebec

tunney wrote: »

Emmm but most triathletes run too. I'm very interested in discussions on 10kms that are run byt fast people (< 32) and fast 5kms(< 15) and fast marathons (< 2:30) and i want to be able to read discussions about that without trawling through pages of crap about "what t-shirt should I wear?"

That's fair enough - apart from calling the other threads pages of crap, that's not really fair, you might have had those questions once too.

If you want to have discussion about those things, start threads for them. Unfortunately due to the demographics of this board it is unlikely you will have many people capable of running those times who can provide advice, but lots of people (including me) will be interested to see what is being written in there. Should it be given priority at the expense of other threads? No. It's up to each thread to earn it's place on the front page by generating traffic and comment.

shels4ever

I'm happy with the way things are.

xebec wrote: »

That's fair enough - apart from calling the other threads pages of crap, that's not really fair.

One man's crap is another mans gold
I get Tunneys point there a some threads that I jsut wouldnt bother with at all, Tend to skip most of the marathon ones now, like the XC thread and find myself popping in and out of the IM and HIM threads .