IMF - One simple fact

ninty9er

This is a short one for the benefit of those starting threads here there and everywhere:

The IMF does not make cuts; it tells a government to go find x amount of cuts/revenue or it will not turn the credit tap back on.

Therefore the IMF makes no policy decisions, it forces governments to.

That will be all.

ntlbell

There was a spokesperson on newstalk. he said IIRC they can suggest where the cuts have to be made from as a condition of been given the money no?

e.g. cut SW by 40% brings down cost of PS by 40% etc and if the cuts are not made by a certain time no more money comes.

Is this not the way of it?

RichardAnd

I'd just add that the IMF have no power to make a government do anything. They can be told to F**k off which is what Argentina did in the early 2000s.

Other than that, this should be a sticky as the IMF as grossly misunderstood on these baords.

cson

RichardAnd wrote: »

I'd just add that the IMF have no power to make a government do anything. They can be told to F**k off which is what Argentina did in the early 2000s.

Other than that, this should be a sticky as the IMF as grossly misunderstood on these baords.

And they defaulted.

Not saying it's not an option for Ireland [certainly would appear to be one of the more palatable options imo] but if Ireland were allowed to default a lá Argentina you'd be talking a possible collapse of the Single Currency notwithstanding our relative insignificance in the EU.

Sandvich

ninty9er wrote: »

This is a short one for the benefit of those starting threads here there and everywhere:

The IMF does not make cuts; it tells a government to go find x amount of cuts/revenue or it will not turn the credit tap back on.

Therefore the IMF makes no policy decisions, it forces governments to.

That will be all.

... and destroys economies doing so.

ei.sdraob

Sandvich wrote: »

... and destroys economies doing so.

Our economy is already destroyed ...

cson

Sandvich wrote: »

... and destroys economies doing so.

I think you'll tend to find that Economy's who require IMF assistance were well destroyed before they sent the SOS.

istabraq

I would have a feeling that the IMF are already involved but its not being announced this explains why budget cuts/savings have jumped so dramatically

LevelSpirit

Id like to add one more thing.
When did everybody in Ireland become a fuking economist. Was that when i was sleeping one night?

cson

LevelSpirit wrote: »

Id like to add one more thing.
When did everybody in Ireland become a fuking economist. Was that when i was sleeping one night?

Topic du jour; people have an interest in it.

Get over it.

Carra23

istabraq wrote: »

I would have a feeling that the IMF are already involved but its not being announced this explains why budget cuts/savings have jumped so dramatically

That's a good point there. Government were quoting cuts of 6/7 billion and you could excuse them for being off a little but for it to double is a bit odd

Superlativeman

ninty9er wrote: »

This is a short one for the benefit of those starting threads here there and everywhere:

The IMF does not make cuts; it tells a government to go find x amount of cuts/revenue or it will not turn the credit tap back on.

Therefore the IMF makes no policy decisions, it forces governments to.

That will be all.

Tell that to Nigeria.

Also, everything you said is correct, but why did the Copenhagen treaty fall apart? Because the IMF were telling third world countries to make these cuts, but they didn't tell them that these taxes would be paid to them directly.

ntlbell

Carra23 wrote: »

That's a good point there. Government were quoting cuts of 6/7 billion and you could excuse them for being off a little but for it to double is a bit odd

the reason it went from 3/4 to 6/7 this year is because the interest rates on the bonds went so high.

They obviously thought if they showed the markets they meant buisness the market would respond but the day after it the rate was still over 7%. they simply don't want to know about ireland anymore.

ninty9er

ntlbell wrote: »

the reason it went from 3/4 to 6/7 this year is because the interest rates on the bonds went so high.

I think that deserves a similar thread.

dan_d

I suggested to Scofflaw by PM...but what do people think of a sticky/mega thread, answering all IMF related queries? Would that be possible? The number of threads that are started with the question "what do the IMF do" or "what will happen if they come into Ireland" or similar must be averaging one a week, minimum. The same answers are being given over and over again.Might be good to have one source of info that we could refer them to....

Could possibly consider this for the NAMA related queries too...though they are being asked less and less...

Agreements anyone?? Thoughts??

liammur

ninty9er wrote: »

This is a short one for the benefit of those starting threads here there and everywhere:

The IMF does not make cuts; it tells a government to go find x amount of cuts/revenue or it will not turn the credit tap back on.

Therefore the IMF makes no policy decisions, it forces governments to.

That will be all.

They take a more proactive role that you suggest. They will to put it politely 'recommend' the cuts to the government.

ninty9er

liammur wrote: »

They take a more proactive role that you suggest. They will to put it politely 'recommend' the cuts to the government.

I can politely "recommend" cuts for a large organisation too, but that doesn't stop the people who vote in it (me being only one) telling me politely to **** off.

So regardless, the Dáil can refuse.

liammur

ninty9er wrote: »

I can politely "recommend" cuts for a large organisation too, but that doesn't stop the people who vote in it (me being only one) telling me politely to **** off.

So regardless, the Dáil can refuse.

Yes, they can tell you and I where to go, but they won't be able to tell their lender of last resort where to go, or there will be no fat pensions every 2 weeks.

Scofflaw

dan_d wrote: »

I suggested to Scofflaw by PM...but what do people think of a sticky/mega thread, answering all IMF related queries? Would that be possible? The number of threads that are started with the question "what do the IMF do" or "what will happen if they come into Ireland" or similar must be averaging one a week, minimum. The same answers are being given over and over again.Might be good to have one source of info that we could refer them to....

Could possibly consider this for the NAMA related queries too...though they are being asked less and less...

Agreements anyone?? Thoughts??

And my apologies for not replying - I have a half-written answer sitting in my outbox. I'll take this opportunity to create a sticky using this thread, I think.

moderately,
Scofflaw

LevelSpirit

dan_d wrote: »

I suggested to Scofflaw by PM...but what do people think of a sticky/mega thread, answering all IMF related queries? Would that be possible? The number of threads that are started with the question "what do the IMF do" or "what will happen if they come into Ireland" or similar must be averaging one a week, minimum. The same answers are being given over and over again.Might be good to have one source of info that we could refer them to....

Could possibly consider this for the NAMA related queries too...though they are being asked less and less...

Agreements anyone?? Thoughts??

Good idea. And only allow people to answer if they can prove they have some experience of economics.

Red Actor

ntlbell wrote: »

There was a spokesperson on newstalk. he said IIRC they can suggest where the cuts have to be made from as a condition of been given the money no?

e.g. cut SW by 40% brings down cost of PS by 40% etc and if the cuts are not made by a certain time no more money comes.

Is this not the way of it?

Do the IMF get involved in this level of detail? Do they care how much is spent on health/social welfare/education? If the IMF said cut health by 20% and the Government said 10% on health and 5% on social welfare (or whatever maths) to end up with the desired debt level would the IMF give two hoots? What I'm really asking is - is the IMF the Stability and Growth Pact with teeth?

Brussels Sprout

I used to read this forum a lot during the summer but I stopped for several reasons. Anyway, now that the media seem to have finally copped on to what people were saying here months ago I decided to come back here to ask the best and brightest: What happens when the money runs out? I figure the immediate future will be some variation of the following:

Opposition win DSW bi-election-majority cut yet again.
Budget is passed after Healy-Rae and Lowry get their 12 pieces of silver.
Other bi-elections are run in early 2011-govt loses and falls
General Election
Money runs out

Ok the above is just one scenario-I'm not too interested in the order of events. All roads lead to Rome after all which in this case is the money running out and us as a country facing a bond market that is effectively closed to us.

So at that point would we effectively be given the same deal as Greece?

Is that an easier path then the one that someone like Latvia went down who were dealing only with the IMF (as far as I know)?

For Greece to tap into the EU/IMF fund did they have to take direction from the EU/IMF, i.e. cut public sector and welfare budgets or do they have direct control over how the money is spent?

I was going to start a new thread but then I noticed the new sticky

galway2007

LevelSpirit wrote: »

Good idea. And only allow people to answer if they can prove they have some experience of economics.

I think people with experience of economics ( if they exist) have not a clue
I am still waiting for the soft landing ??????????

cson

galway2007 wrote: »

I think people with experience of economics ( if they exist) have not a clue
I am still waiting for the soft landing ??????????

For all intents and purposes it's still soft.

We've retained more or less the same levels of;

Pay
Welfare
Tax
Capital Expenditure

Whilst the cost of living has decreased significantly in the meantime.

There aren't too many stories of people being ****ed out of their homes by banks - it seems to be moratorium central as the banks don't want to write down the value of their loan book.

The one area we have suffered is the Unemployment rate which has spiralled since 2008. Without wanting to turn this into a public v private sector horse flogging ans it has well and truly been done to death it is the private sector that has shouldered most of the loss - mainly through construction.

We've had a pretty soft landing insofar as the actual impact the property crash and bank bailouts are having; the real suffering has yet to come imo.

maninasia

cson wrote: »

I think you'll tend to find that Economy's who require IMF assistance were well destroyed before they sent the SOS.

When you need to borrow money and nobody else will lend that means you are in big trouble already. The EBC/IMF offered rates of 5% to Greece, it's better than the private markets. They also push the government to take more radical but logical decisions, ones that political parties often refuse to do because voters don't like taking the pain and therefore won't vote for them if they do this.

newman10

cson wrote: »

We've had a pretty soft landing insofar as the actual impact the property crash and bank bailouts are having; the real suffering has yet to come imo.

Where is the suffering to come

krd

ninty9er wrote: »

This is a short one for the benefit of those starting threads here there and everywhere:

The IMF does not make cuts; it tells a government to go find x amount of cuts/revenue or it will not turn the credit tap back on.

Therefore the IMF makes no policy decisions, it forces governments to.

That will be all.

It's actually more or a case of having a gun to your head and doing what you're told.

They can actually take a very proactive role. Even going as far as to take over a government. Ostensibly the government will be democratically elected, but in reality the IMF will have complete control over expenditure.

The IMF are very ideological. Socialism for the rich - brutal free enterprise for the poor. Their policy documents are available on their website. Go have a look. The IMF is run by bankers for bankers. Most people who work for the IMF, end up working for one of the big New York banks after their 4 year stint. Joesph Stiglitz has two very good books on the IMF/WB.

At the minute, I don't believe we're getting the full picture - I would say the European Stability fund and the IMF are already calling some of the shots. Though something a little bit more disorderly could be going on.

I think it's more along the lines of Morgan Kelly's piece in the Irish Times.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/1108/1224282865400.html

We're headed for a major mortgage default - effectively we're there already - Even the anonymous girl, Claire, who writes her dole diary for the Irish Times is using her overdraft to pay the mortgage.

Even during the boom time, I knew people who were paying their mortgages with "home improvement" loans. The banks were fully aware of what was going on.

cson

newman10 wrote: »

Where is the suffering to come

A lot more than we're feeling now; you're talking major salary cuts and redundancy in the public sector; our Corporation Tax cherry of 12.5% being hiked up leading to a good few MNCs leaving; Unemployment rate of >20%; huge cutbacks in services across the board; Capital Spending being cut out altogether and much much more.

There's a huge deterioration in the quality of life on the way for your average Irish citizen and more importantly their children for the forseeable future.

dan_d

Scofflaw wrote: »

And my apologies for not replying - I have a half-written answer sitting in my outbox. I'll take this opportunity to create a sticky using this thread, I think.

moderately,
Scofflaw

No problem.
Thanks for taking me up on it, it's going to save a lot of people a lot of time (and arguments!)

Amhran Nua

Red Actor wrote: »

What I'm really asking is - is the IMF the Stability and Growth Pact with teeth?

The "teeth" of the IMF are that they can tell the markets when its okay to lend to Ireland again. We're already at the point where nobody will lend to us, so we're clearly being set up for IMF intervention.

silkworm53

The poster who is saying we should tell the IMF to fuk off is off his rocker.

Does he/she have a clue? We are borrowing and spending more than we are earning and we have to slash our spending and increase our earning in order to improve our conditions to keep borrowing.

If we don't cut spending - we are spending their money - the bond holders will turn off the tap - they are the people giving us the money to keep the lights on.

We haven't any choice unless you want to stuff newspaper down your vest to keep out the cold and eat dog food to stay alive?

krd

silkworm53 wrote: »

We haven't any choice unless you want to stuff newspaper down your vest to keep out the cold and eat dog food to stay alive?

Dog food? That'll be a luxury.

I knew people who were in Russia at the time of the default in 98. Dog food would have been a treat. There was a near collapse of the country. Very serious food shortages. And a bunch of bandits bought all the county's assets at bargain basement prices - literally a steal.

In all honesty - we could cope. But we're not ready for it. There wouldn't be a dog or cat left alive in the country.

It could be an idea to default - the bond markets actually forget very quickly - two years to forgive Argentina.

We'd get food aid and some petrol.

And we could always knock on the door of our Nordy cousins: " a cush a bread and a drop a milk for de child"

Maj Malfunction

Really Lenny & Biffo need to decide who they want to save... Ireland? or the Banks and the Galway Race tent?

We can't afford to do both and I can't see the German's bailing us out either, a line will be drawn in the sand. The Bond holders are gonna have to take a hit.

If Biffo & Lenny want to bankrupt this country well I can see only one thing... Strikes, Civil Unrest and maybe rebellion...

The Unions better get to Starbucks for a good hit of coffee for that matter too.

Joey leBlanc

I think a "rebellion" is stretching things a bit far! Sounds good in theory until yourself & a handful of lunatics get arrested for making a fool of yourselves. As a nation we are far too laidback to start a revolution. Plus when the rate of emigration soars in the next few years there won't be enough abled bodied people around to fight the cause.

Personally, I think we should turn to our ol' buddies in America for guidance. In the past few days I read an article where China was supporting Portugal so why should'nt we do the same.The time has come for new ideas.

Red Actor

Amhran Nua wrote: »

The "teeth" of the IMF are that they can tell the markets when its okay to lend to Ireland again. We're already at the point where nobody will lend to us, so we're clearly being set up for IMF intervention.

The SGP sets broad parameters for public finances - 3% of GDP borrowing, 60% D/GDP ratio etc but does say how much to spend (or on what) or tax rates or levels. Just stay within the limits and if you don't you'll be told that Brians a naughty boy, a very naughty boy.

Do the IMF set parameters which must be met with consequences (no money) for not meeting them or "suggest" particular courses of action?

Amhran Nua

Red Actor wrote: »

Do the IMF set parameters which must be met with consequences (no money) for not meeting them or "suggest" particular courses of action?

Yes, these parameters depend on the country. If you don't meet the criteria, no borrowing for you.

stepbar

LevelSpirit wrote: »

Id like to add one more thing.
When did everybody in Ireland become a fuking economist. Was that when i was sleeping one night?

They'd probably do a better job than the people who are paid to be "economists".....

thebman

stepbar wrote: »

They'd probably do a better job than the people who are paid to be "economists".....

Many of the supposed economists are actually working in banks (at least the ones you saw on RTE during the boom).

The actual economists worth listening to are academic ones and people should pay a lot of attention to what Peter Matthews says as he is not just a crazed attention seeker like David McWilliams.

K_TRICKS

i believe this country and its economy is on its death bed, merkot has sent the markets into a spin , the same markets are completly destroying us, our beloved leader hasn't got a clue economically, the 'health' minister is hell bent on a market driven privatisation agenda that imo has led to the deaths of thousands of irish people and my last post was deleted by mods.....

remove this if you want but it is not a rant but a background to the impending EU imf bailout......the same message just different words

B9K9

K_TRICKS wrote: »

my last post was deleted by mods.....

remove this if you want but it is not a rant but a background to the impending EU imf bailout......the same message just different words

something rotten in the state of denmark...

sceptre

The post was deleted because it was little more than inflammatory f**king and blinding. Kindly take the time to observe reasonable standards of discussion - this is a political discussion board, rather than a convenient rant zone.

If there are any difficulties with this, please PM me - preferably after reading the forum charter, which includes the above. Feel free to continue with the actual topic of discussion.

/mod

spagboll

ninty9er wrote: »

This is a short one for the benefit of those starting threads here there and everywhere:

The IMF does not make cuts; it tells a government to go find x amount of cuts/revenue or it will not turn the credit tap back on.

Therefore the IMF makes no policy decisions, it forces governments to.

That will be all.

Hi there

"The IMF Often Attaches Inappropriate Lending Conditions to Its Loans: The IMF ties several forms of conditions to its loans. Austerity conditions involving tax increases are often part of these lending programs, and these conditions are sometimes applied indiscriminately to countries facing different sets of circumstances. Critics argue that these conditions result from inappropriate use of economic models focusing principally on aggregate demand management and not on supply conditions."

Source: http://www.house.gov/jec/imf/imf.htm

In theory you have a very valid point, in practice the IMF is boss, not admitting this is dangerous!

Westboy

ninty9er wrote: »

This is a short one for the benefit of those starting threads here there and everywhere:

The IMF does not make cuts; it tells a government to go find x amount of cuts/revenue or it will not turn the credit tap back on.

Therefore the IMF makes no policy decisions, it forces governments to.

That will be all.

The IMF may not have the power to enforce where cuts are made but it certainly makes clear what its preferences are. Only last night I was watching an English news channell that suggest if Ireland had to tap the EU/IMF stabilisation fund Britian may be liable for as much as 8bn, one of the question then imposed was what conditions would the British goverment seek in return, one suggestion was a increase in Irelands corporation Tax.

Whichever part of this fund(rapid reaction stabilisation fund/special purpose vehicle/IMF) the money finally comes from it is very naive to think they are going to hand billions to Ireland and not try and influnece policy here. One just needs to look at the history of countrires that have recieved bailouts, serious social services cuts, hospital closures, tax increases just to mention a few. Also it is not the Irish state that needs the bailout at the moment, it is the Irish banks, so basically we are being asked to pay for there reckless past again.

This may be a bit off topic The Irish banks have been frozen out of the credit markets and are reliant on the ECB for funding, the ECB wants to turn off this credit flow. Even if the banks were able to sell their bonds, they would be sold at an interest rate of over 9%, mortgage rates in Ireland are currently around 4.25%, so when they eventually relend the money they will be making a loss on this, they are not a sustainable business they are just postponing the inevitable and that some of the Irish banks failing is inevitable, while at the same time they are now placing an insurmountable burden on the Irish people with this debt..

The people of Ireland need to finally stand up for them selves, I do not trust this goverment. Ireland has come under serious pressure to take a bailout from the ECB and members of the EU, BASICALLY they are trying to force Ireland to take on more private debt and convert it into public debt. The problem is the Irish banks have borrowed billions from the European banks on the inter-bank market, Anglo is just one example who owed billions to the likes of Lloyds and the Dundesbank, if Anglo was let go to the wall these banks would never have got paid back, pressure came on Ireland from the EU to nationalise Anglo therefore ensuring these foreign banks got paid back, but its the people of Ireland who eventually pay back these banks through these austerity measures, this is not how capitalism works, its a perverse form of capitalism aimed at preserving the elite in society. Investors take a risk when they invest, if that investment turned bad they should have to write it off.

spagboll

Westboy wrote: »

The IMF may not have the power to enforce where cuts are made but it certainly makes clear what its preferences are. Only last night I was watching an English news channell that suggest if Ireland had to tap the EU/IMF stabilisation fund Britian may be liable for as much as 8bn, one of the question then imposed was what conditions would the British goverment seek in return, one suggestion was a increase in Irelands corporation Tax.

Whichever part of this fund(rapid reaction stabilisation fund/special purpose vehicle/IMF) the money finally comes from it is very naive to think they are going to hand billions to Ireland and not try and influnece policy here. One just needs to look at the history of countrires that have recieved bailouts, serious social services cuts, hospital closures, tax increases just to mention a few. Also it is not the Irish state that needs the bailout at the moment, it is the Irish banks, so basically we are being asked to pay for there reckless past again.

This may be a bit off topic The Irish banks have been frozen out of the credit markets and are reliant on the ECB for funding, the ECB wants to turn off this credit flow. Even if the banks were able to sell their bonds, they would be sold at an interest rate of over 9%, mortgage rates in Ireland are currently around 4.25%, so when they eventually relend the money they will be making a loss on this, they are not a sustainable business they are just postponing the inevitable and that some of the Irish banks failing is inevitable, while at the same time they are now placing an insurmountable burden on the Irish people with this debt..

The people of Ireland need to finally stand up for them selves, I do not trust this goverment. Ireland has come under serious pressure to take a bailout from the ECB and members of the EU, BASICALLY they are trying to force Ireland to take on more private debt and convert it into public debt. The problem is the Irish banks have borrowed billions from the European banks on the inter-bank market, Anglo is just one example who owed billions to the likes of Lloyds and the Dundesbank, if Anglo was let go to the wall these banks would never have got paid back, pressure came on Ireland from the EU to nationalise Anglo therefore ensuring these foreign banks got paid back, but its the people of Ireland who eventually pay back these banks through these austerity measures, this is not how capitalism works, its a perverse form of capitalism aimed at preserving the elite in society. Investors take a risk when they invest, if that investment turned bad they should have to write it off.

I mostly agree. Given your distrust of the government who would you replace them with that you would trust?

I have never before considered that the EU may have put pressure on the government to nationalise Anglo due to risks to large European banks, I'm going to do my own research on this as it may serve as the greater motive for the pressure to take a bailout coming from EU leaders presently

jimmycrackcorm

spagboll wrote: »

I have never before considered that the EU may have put pressure on the government to nationalise Anglo due to risks to large European banks, I'm going to do my own research on this as it may serve as the greater motive for the pressure to take a bailout coming from EU leaders presently

I believe that this is the truth and crux of the problem. The EU wanted to protect the German, French and UK banks but the scale of the problem got out of hand. Now we have been put on the hook for this and Lenihan has gone over to Brussels and said that we're not playing ball and that the EU has to take some responsibility for the problems caused by their own banks bad lending. No one wants the Euro to fold on this but neither do we have to roll over....

This is why they are saying that we are not Greece - this is a banking issue that has been morphed into a sovereign one. The EU is afraid the government will come out and say that the Irish people should not be made pay for a bank failure that should have been allowed to fail but for the reticence of the ECBs unwillingness to accept failures.

K-9

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I believe that this is the truth and crux of the problem. The EU wanted to protect the German, French and UK banks but the scale of the problem got out of hand. Now we have been put on the hook for this and Lenihan has gone over to Brussels and said that we're not playing ball and that the EU has to take some responsibility for the problems caused by their own banks bad lending. No one wants the Euro to fold on this but neither do we have to roll over....

This is why they are saying that we are not Greece - this is a banking issue that has been morphed into a sovereign one. The EU is afraid the government will come out and say that the Irish people should not be made pay for a bank failure that should have been allowed to fail but for the reticence of the ECBs unwillingness to accept failures.

Wait a sec, Ireland guaranteed the banks without much consultation with the EU.

The EU was furious over it, the UK in particular.

ninty9er

K-9 wrote: »

Wait a sec, Ireland guaranteed the banks without much consultation with the EU.

The EU was furious over it, the UK in particular.

EU /= ECB

The UK was furious because of capital flight, not because it was the wrong thing to do.

K-9

ninty9er wrote: »

EU /= ECB

The UK was furious because of capital flight, not because it was the wrong thing to do.

My point was, blaming the EU, ECB or whatever you are having yourself for a unilateral decision taken by an Irish Finance Minister is ludicrous.

chipsdave

say the IMF moves in is the Dec Budget scrapped and a whole new one drawn up ?? thks.

Scofflaw

This is why they are saying that we are not Greece - this is a banking issue that has been morphed into a sovereign one. The EU is afraid the government will come out and say that the Irish people should not be made pay for a bank failure that should have been allowed to fail but for the reticence of the ECBs unwillingness to accept failures.

Except that the current move is being driven by the ECB's unwillingness to continue propping up Irish banks, and the decision to save the Irish banks was made in Ireland, as was the guarantee decision. That's why in each case we had the government announcement first, and then the scramble to check that it was OK with the EU.

Further, it's the EU arguing (in a market-destabilising way) for haircuts for bondholders, something our government didn't mention. The EU wants us to take a bailout to prevent Ireland's position destabilising everyone else's position, but the narrative that the only reason we're having to pay anything is because "they" made us protect "their" banks is a trite evasion of responsibility for our national failure to regulate our banks properly - the result was that while our government said everything was fine in the Irish banking sector, they didn't know it was, and it wasn't. Nevertheless, the assurances that our government provided as to its regulation of the banks kept the banks' rating at AAA, and made them look like a safe place to invest. Other banks invested, and now you want to blame them because...because what? Because they believed our elected government?

regards,
Scofflaw

spagboll

chipsdave wrote: »

say the IMF moves in is the Dec Budget scrapped and a whole new one drawn up ?? thks.

It would be mere speculation on my part to guess exactly as to the cuts and other revenue generation measures that would be made, but I think we could all agree that any new budget part designed by the IMF would be more severe than the one currently due to be released. Going after the obvious like public pay and social welfare would likely be the first port of call.


If the EU/ECB have any consideration for the Irish people (i.e. the Sovereign) the agreement will either not involve the IMF or will not involve Sovereign liability. Best case scenario for Ireland and IMO for the EU the banks alone will be bailed out allowing a very confident Ireland to emerge and grow.

The IMF will likely pump in 25% of the bail out, but will they have executive control over all monies given?



Very rushed post sorry about any mistakes