One cent text tax

Denzil2222

I am sick of all the dumb fools that think a one cent text tax will raise lots of money. (social justice ireland are the latest to think this) Putting a one cent tax on texts will kill texting(its old hat now anyway) and all the young people will just start using FREE facebook on their mobile phone our using free internet texts. Honestly people that want a text tax are as thick as a brick wall.

thenightrider

1cent tax on texting wont kill texting just like when a network put up the price of texts to make money for them selfs whats the difference in the extra 1 cent going to the goverment ?

Denzil2222

thenightrider wrote: »

whats the difference in the extra 1 cent going to the goverment ?

Because most young people (probably all of them) dont pay for texts at all these days, they get FREE texts to any network by topping up by €20 per month.

MagicSean

Denzil2222 wrote: »

Because most young people (probably all of them) dont pay for texts at all these days, they get FREE texts to any network by topping up by €20 per month.

Which will give them 2000 texts.

Denzil2222

k_mac wrote: »

Which will give them 2000 texts.

seems like a good deal but teenagers spend that much in 3 days, which is why they will just log on to facebook on their phone for free and talk to each other that way.

wylo

OP surely 1c is better 0c?? As in , even if texts do reduce your still making more with it than without it.

Willbbz

1c tax on boards.ie posts

Denzil2222

wylo wrote: »

OP surely 1c is better 0c?? As in , even if texts do reduce your still making more with it than without it.

I believe if you are going to tax mobile phones a much better idea is a €10-€15 levy upfront when buying an new mobile phone.

thenightrider

Denzil2222 wrote: »

I believe if you are going to tax mobile phones a much better idea is a €10-€15 levy upfront when buying an new mobile phone.

They already do that its called VAT

Denzil2222

thenightrider wrote: »

They already do that its called VAT

well we already pay taxes on plane tickets too but that didnt stop them bringing in the extra €10 levy

MagicSean

Denzil2222 wrote: »

seems like a good deal but teenagers spend that much in 3 days, which is why they will just log on to facebook on their phone for free and talk to each other that way.

Or maybe they might get out more.

Jibbs

Denzil2222 wrote: »

I am sick of all the dumb fools that think a one cent text tax will raise lots of money. (social justice ireland are the latest to think this) Putting a one cent tax on texts will kill texting(its old hat now anyway) and all the young people will just start using FREE facebook on their mobile phone our using free internet texts. Honestly people that want a text tax are as thick as a brick wall.

A 1c tax would kill texting? Completely? Really? Maybe you're right. Maybe its the people that are coming up with ideas like these that are the thick ones.

gurramok

Jibbs wrote: »

A 1c tax would kill texting? Completely? Really? Maybe you're right. Maybe its the people that are coming up with ideas like these that are the thick ones.

Point being, technology and special offers will kill the idea. That's lost on the proposers.

GSF

I'd imagine any tax on texts would be paid by the MNOs based on their total network volumes of texts. As such its just an extra tax on mobile phone operators who will in turn pass this on to their customers in order to maintain their existing margins. So the price of mobile bundles or the rate of prepaid decrementation will just be adjusted.

murphaph

What about seeing some value for money from our exisitng taxes before dreaming up "new and exciting" ones?

ardmacha

VAT is payable on mobile phones as on everything else. These text message tax ideas are worthy of a third world dictator and no credible approach to our economic problems can include this kind of nonsense.

well we already pay taxes on plane tickets

Do we? Have you ever seen VAT on a plane ticket list of charges?

Amhran Nua

Is VAT not charged on mobile top ups and hence texting as well? I thought it was.

Permabear

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Permabear

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jimmycrackcorm

donegalfella wrote: »

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It will only affect the parents who pay for their kids phone credit. It's the same people who will be paying property taxes so it's just another way of increasing taxes on those who are going to have to fulfill the burden most.

It would be interesting to see how the networks would respond - ideally it should hit their profits instead of being passed to the consumer but competition might dictate that it might not happen. there is every belief that this might be the case or that a flat charge may be imposed instead on the basis that the networks already have to pay sms termination fees and yet there are many "unlimited" texting offers. A 1c tax is the same as increasing the termination fees.

GSF

Stand by for the IM tax, followed by the Google tax.

People found talking on street corners will have duty applied.

alejandro1977

GSF wrote: »

Stand by for the IM tax, followed by the Google tax.

People found talking on street corners will have duty applied.

Exactly, how do you make a distinction between a Blackberry IM and a text message; what about Yahoo/ICQ messages on an always on Broadband connection.

Mary White/Green first proposed this thinking it would raise billions, enough said

ardmacha

Is VAT not charged on mobile top ups and hence texting as well? I thought it was.

Of course it is.

Mary White/Green first proposed this thinking it would raise billions, enough said

The whole thing is a variation on the "don't cut the pensioners".
It is truly sad that we are discussing this nonsense.

OMD

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It targets people who text and therefore they can choose to pay the tax or not, by texting or not.

It would raise a tiny amount of money but would be a pretty painless way or raising revenue. You cannot target every tax at the wealthiest people.

GSF

OMD wrote: »

It targets people who text and therefore they can choose to pay the tax or not, by texting or not.

It would raise a tiny amount of money but would be a pretty painless way or raising revenue. You cannot target every tax at the wealthiest people.

why not tax letters then? they cause more adverse side effects than texting.

ashleey

1c per 1kg of free cheese?

OMD

GSF wrote: »

why not tax letters then? they cause more adverse side effects than texting.

They are taxed, 55c a go. Yes you can increase this by a cent as well. Why not? Also does tax have to be based on "adverse side effects"?

By the way a 1c tax would cost the average user about a euro a month, and less if they reduce their texting. Is it really worth getting worked up about?

Quazzie

donegalfella wrote: »

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Its bringing more people into taxation that otherwise wouldn't be taxed. How is that a stupid idea?

GSF

OMD wrote: »

They are taxed, 55c a go. Yes you can increase this by a cent as well. Why not? Also does tax have to be based on "adverse side effects"?

the 55c is not a tax.

And why tax things with adverse side effects ? well presumably we want to encourage efficiency in the economy. Is cutting down trees, writing on them and delivering them by van an efficient thing to be doing in the 21st century?

I would say that taxing texts is often driven by snobbery or old fogey attitudes to communication. I doubt Colm McCarty is texting as much as a 16 year old girl does?

ardmacha

By the way a 1c tax would cost the average user about a euro a month, and less if they reduce their texting. Is it really worth getting worked up about?

It is worth getting worked up about because it would represent the continuation of "stupid" Ireland with joke public finances which ignores the normal bases of taxation used in other countries. This would make us (quite properly) a laughing stock, even more than we are.

Essexboy

ardmacha wrote: »

VAT is payable on mobile phones as on everything else. These text message tax ideas are worthy of a third world dictator and no credible approach to our economic problems can include this kind of nonsense.



Do we? Have you ever seen VAT on a plane ticket list of charges?

Ever heard of "Air Travel Tax (ATT), an excise duty on air travel and it will be charged, levied and paid in respect of every departure of a passenger on an aircraft from an Irish airport on or after 30th March 2009"?

heyjude

OMD wrote: »

They are taxed, 55c a go. Yes you can increase this by a cent as well. Why not? Also does tax have to be based on "adverse side effects"?

By the way a 1c tax would cost the average user about a euro a month, and less if they reduce their texting. Is it really worth getting worked up about?

The 55c is the cost of posting a letter, not a 55c tax and it pays An Post's letter delivery costs.

I think the concern regarding a 1c text tax is that its being portrayed as a tax on something that isn't current taxed whereas texts whether through top ups or directly are already liable to VAT, its a youth tax as young adults and children send most texts and its being promoted as just 1c per text, but we all know where it would lead if introduced, next year it would be "a 1c increase in the text tax(100% increase)" and within 5 years it could be 5-10c per text.

But if we're looking for novel new taxes on communications, in addition to the text tax, why not similar percentage tax on letters(5c per letter) and on phone calls(say 10%). Of course, Mary White wouldn't support these ideas as they might affect herself more.

KylieWyley

1c per 1 cubic millilitre of air inhaled.

OMD

GSF wrote: »

the 55c is not a tax.

And why tax things with adverse side effects ? well presumably we want to encourage efficiency in the economy. Is cutting down trees, writing on them and delivering them by van an efficient thing to be doing in the 21st century?

I was asking why only base the tax on "adverse side effects"? You can also argue that delivering letters creates far more employment and so should be taxed less.

GSF wrote: »

I would say that taxing texts is often driven by snobbery or old fogey attitudes to communication. I doubt Colm McCarty is texting as much as a 16 year old girl does?

It is a tiny amount of money. Get over it. No one is trying to oppress the texting masses. It is not some great conspiracy by old people to attack young people.

Panrich

KylieWyley wrote: »

1c per 1 cubic millilitre of air inhaled.

I volunteer to measure chest capacities for the charge.

ronkmonster

How many people who only buy €20 credit to get the free texts will cut down on buying credit if the texts aren't free anymore?
Also more phones and homes have wireless for free communication by facebook chat/msn/email

OMD

ardmacha wrote: »

It is worth getting worked up about because it would represent the continuation of "stupid" Ireland with joke public finances which ignores the normal bases of taxation used in other countries. This would make us (quite properly) a laughing stock, even more than we are.

Talking about over reacting. What about the other parts of the world talking about doing the same thing? Are people laughing at them?

Really people. Calm down about this. It is a tiny tax. Would raise a tiny amount (about 50-60 million a year). It is a tax you can choose to pay or not. God have you nothing else to get worked up about.

OMD

ronkmonster wrote: »

How many people who only buy €20 credit to get the free texts will cut down on buying credit if the texts aren't free anymore?

And that is bad in what way?

ronkmonster

OMD wrote: »

And that is bad in what way?

Less money coming into mobile companies? Potential job losses?

Denzil2222

I think alot of (out of touch) people are missing the point, this is the year 2010 mobile phones have alot of alternatives to SMS these days. Sms is old hat at this stage, why would a 16 year old spend 1 cent or more to text when they could talk to their friends on facebook for free ?

OMD

ronkmonster wrote: »

Less money coming into mobile companies? Potential job losses?

How many jobs do you really think will be lost? How many jobs a directly related to text messaging are there in Ireland?

OMD

Denzil2222 wrote: »

I think alot of (out of touch) people are missing the point, this is the year 2010 mobile phones have alot of alternatives to SMS these days. Sms is old hat at this stage, why would a 16 year old spend 1 cent or more to text when they could talk to their friends on facebook for free ?

Which means they will not be affected by the tax. Rather ruins the point that it will particularly affect teenagers and young people.

By the way why are they paying for texts at the moment?

Keith186

It would be a useless tax.
Of course it would raise money but wouldn't it be a bad idea to get rid of free texts? I think it would.
Your getting teenagers to pay most of it who will be already paying for this mess most their working life possibly, all because of Fianna Fail, the EU central bank(practically giving away free money), the irish banks and property developers have created.

As consumers we pay far too much tax as it is with a very high VAT rate for shoddy public services in the main in return.
This country is a laughing stock. When bond holders are taking the piss out of your Minister for mis-Finance in a conference call that'd be a good indication.

ronkmonster

OMD wrote: »

How many jobs do you really think will be lost? How many jobs a directly related to text messaging are there in Ireland?

No idea of numbers but free texts is getting phone companies (meteor and vodafone at least) a regular €20 from a lot of teenagers and young people.

OMD wrote: »

Which means they will not be affected by the tax. Rather ruins the point that it will particularly affect teenagers and young people.

By the way why are they paying for texts at the moment?

They pay €20 a month and they can use the credit for calls or they get free texts and calls to their own network so the €20 goes to calling/texting other networks.

Denzil2222

OMD wrote: »

Which means they will not be affected by the tax. Rather ruins the point that it will particularly affect teenagers and young people.

By the way why are they paying for texts at the moment?

If you read the thread you will see that I and others have pointed out that the youth dont pay for texts these days they get them for free when they top up by 20 euro per month

OMD

ronkmonster wrote: »

No idea of numbers but free texts is getting phone companies (meteor and vodafone at least) a regular €20 from a lot of teenagers and young people.


They pay €20 a month and they can use the credit for calls or they get free texts and calls to their own network so the €20 goes to calling/texting other networks.

There is no such thing as free texts on mobile networks. They are bundles where you have no choice but to pay for the texts. These are not free.

ronkmonster

OMD wrote: »

There is no such thing as free texts on mobile networks. They are bundles where you have no choice but to pay for the texts. These are not free.

I top up by €20 and I can text any irish mobile for free. I still have the €20 for calls or texts 30 days after topup

With a 1c tax on texts, people that choose free texts and calls to their own network will be able to speak for free but charged 1c to send a text. 1c added onto calls would make more sense.

OMD

ronkmonster wrote: »

I top up by €20 and it can text any irish mobil20e for free. I still have the €20 for calls or texts 30 days after topup

That doesn't make it free. You have to top up by €20. You cannot get that money back. You then must make phonecalls (at extortionate rates) or you loose the money. You are being duped by the mobile companies if you think that equates to free texts.

GSF

OMD wrote: »

It is a tiny amount of money. Get over it. No one is trying to oppress the texting masses. It is not some great conspiracy by old people to attack young people.

If its tiny why impose significant compliance costs on businesses to collect it?

average_runner

murphaph wrote: »

What about seeing some value for money from our exisitng taxes before dreaming up "new and exciting" ones?

No offence but where have you been for the last 6 year.

The country is bankrupt basically so we need new taxes. You see nothing now for your value for money, you be just handing money over, more and more every year till we get get out of this mess

ronkmonster

OMD wrote: »

That doesn't make it free. You have to top up by €20. You cannot get that money back. You then must make phonecalls (at extortionate rates) or you loose the money. You are being duped by the mobile companies if you think that equates to free texts.

But I want to make calls at times. And I choose the prepaid method rather than bills. I sent over 2500 texts in September, that would be more than my credit at 1c a text. How do you lose the money? Most people would spend it on calls

Without free texts, my €20 would give me around 153 texts at 13c (vodafone). That's in comparision to my 2500+ currently and the credit is there for me to use on calls