LIDL 22" TV - MPEG2 from Thursday 11th Nov

fat-tony

I note from Lidl's website that they are flogging a 22" Full HD TV from next Thursday 11th. Spec says MPEG-2 see here http://www.lidl.ie/ie/home.nsf/pages/c.o.20101111.p.22inch_Full_HD_LCD_Television

I've written to their Customer Service Dept. pointing out that this set is unfit for purpose in the Irish market. I've written to them twice before on this subject and both times have had an acknowledgement that they would pass on the comments to their purchasing people, but it doesn't seem to be working.:rolleyes:

seamus

They'll have to make it an offence to sell non-compatible TVs in Ireland before they go live.

I can see it now, "It's a disgrace, Joe....."

Macy0161

Aldi also doing a TV next week, but doesn't even say the spec if I recall the flier correctly.

The Cush

Macy0161 wrote: »

Aldi also doing a TV next week, but doesn't even say the spec if I recall the flier correctly.

Could be this Tevion 19" I posted about earlier - "analogue tuner" "7 day epg"

Sponge Bob

Complain about Lidl to the ASAI , www.asai.ie

championc

To be honest, many people only use a TV as a Display device. They use Sky or other types of digital boxes so they'll never have a need for any tuner at all

watty

Fine if it's sold as a Monitor.

I'm happy to buy a Monitor if it's sold as that, and priced accordingly. But not if they claim it's a TV and it isn't.

Sponge Bob

€199.99 is not a bad price for a monitor with VGA SCART and HDMI Inputs. This one here is €160 with no SCART.

It is not a TV either and is not described as such.

dowtchaboy

I emailed them last time (on Oct 3rd) about this:

.... Hi - will you be placing large and prominent signs on your 32 inch TV on offer on Thursday 7th to warn buyers that this TV does NOT have a HD tuner, nor is it compatible with the Republic of Ireland DTT system launching on Oct 31st?

Otherwise you can expect queues of people returning sets next month complaining of being able to "receive sound but no picture". According to the specification given in your flier this TV is MPEG2 whereas it needs to be MPEG4 for Ireland.

If the given specification is wrong and the set is in fact Irish DTT/SaorView compatible then you should make this clear.

Thank you.

and got a response:

Dear Mr xxx ,

We write to you following your recent email regarding the TV we have on sale on the 7th October 2010.

We wish to advise you that we have passed your comments to our Purchasing Department who welcome all suggestions and will certainly bear them in mind for the future.

Assuring you of our best intentions at all times.

Regards,

Emer Scully.

Customer Services Team

Tel: 1800 347 447

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Lidl Ireland GmbH Registered Office: Great Connell Road, Newbridge, Co. Kildare, Republic of Ireland, Registered in Ireland No. 904141; Tel: +353 (0) 45 440 400 Web: www.lidl.ie ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

but I was not around on the day so I don't know if they did anything about it.

Macy0161

The Cush wrote: »

Could be this Tevion 19" I posted about earlier - "analogue tuner" "7 day epg"

It is - sorry, missed your post. It struck me that it didn't mention whether mpeg2 or mpeg4 at all, and I think they would've on previous offers.

The Cush

Macy0161 wrote: »

It is - sorry, missed your post. It struck me that it didn't mention whether mpeg2 or mpeg4 at all, and I think they would've on previous offers.

Maybe the message (such as dowtchaboy's one above to Lidl) is finally getting through. The "7 day epg" info included in the advert would indicate it probably is an MPEG-2 TV but no longer advertised as such.

watty

Sponge Bob wrote: »

€199.99 is not a bad price for a monitor with VGA SCART and HDMI Inputs.

Yes. but the Aldi / Lidl "monitors" will be classed as TVs by licence inspector. If you have no TVs and it's only for PC, then you would have to get a TV licence, because it's technically a TV set, even though no good after October 2012.

fat-tony

Folks,
You're derailing my thread with discussions of another item in Aldi which may or may not be a monitor. Lidl are also offering a 24" monitor for €199.99 next week - no issue with that.

But this thread is about a TELEVISION - http://www.lidl.ie/ie/home.nsf/pages/c.o.20101111.p.22inch_Full_HD_LCD_Television

I've had a reply from Lidl which indicates their purchasing people are aware that this is an MPEG-2 only set and that they are unable to help me any further with my query. So where to next? What regulatory body would have the appetite to take this on?

watty

In Ireland, none.
The ASAI and CAI "technically" are the two relevant bodies.

fat-tony

I've rattled the Lidl cage a bit more - let's see if they respond.

Macy0161

fat-tony wrote: »

Folks,
You're derailing my thread with discussions of another item in Aldi which may or may not be a monitor. Lidl are also offering a 24" monitor for €199.99 next week - no issue with that.

The Aldi have a TV and Monitor, too. TV here: http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/offers/special_buys3_14953.htm

fat-tony

Yeh I know, the Cush referenced it just after your earlier post. Analogue tuner and 7 day EPG

Anyway - you can take on Aldi, while I tackle Lidl:D

championc

They'd have covered themselves if they had just put the TV down as "Analog"

watty

Maybe not as a TV has to be fit for purpose for two years. It's Nov 2010 and the Analogue is turned off in October 2012. Probably.
The Minister would want to sign something sharpish if this is the intention, or the Retailers could be sueing the Government for lack of notice.

jonnygee

Just to make matters worse , Lidl are advertising this for 99.99 sterling in derry store. Must get one.

The Cush

watty wrote: »

The Minister would want to sign something sharpish if this is the intention, or the Retailers could be sueing the Government for lack of notice.

I think the get out there could be that only Saorview certified receivers are guaranteed to receive the service.

This from the Saorview website

Consumers should seek advice from their specialist retailer or manufacturer if looking to make a purchase in the immediate future. Please note that the majority of UK "Freeview" boxes and iDTVs will not decode the SAORVIEW service.

RTÉ recommends that consumers wishing to avail of the SAORVIEW service only purchase receivers that carry the SAORVIEW approved logo.

watty

There wants to be SOME major publicity sharpish or in 6 months to 12 months time SOME PEOPLE (shoppers or vendors) are going to feel they weren't told

watty

jonnygee wrote: »

Just to make matters worse , Lidl are advertising this for 99.99 sterling in derry store. Must get one.

It's misleading advertising in UK! It can't be a Full HD set as the tuner will never receive the UK HD terrestrial via aerial in 2012. Active TODAY in some parts of UK. People in SW Ireland watching it from Wales!

STB

Sorry Cush (and you are not someone I disagree with normally)

This has come as no sudden surprise to manufacturers, most retailers and distributors.

They were written to by their respresentative group in 2008 to advise them whats what.

Furthermore nearly all manufacturers are members of CEDA. Just in case you dont know who CEDA are: The Consumer Electronics Distributors Association, (CEDA), is the sectoral association within ICT Ireland promoting the development and representing the interests of the major distributors of consumer electronic goods in Ireland.

CEDA would have regular contact with DCENR, COMREG and RTE.

There really is no Saorview certification to hide behind here. Profile the country with the right standards that have been know for the last 2 years. Certainly in the UK you wouldnt be allowed to sell TVs with MHP and no MHEG5 or indeed any other standard such as ATSC.

New TVs in 2010 with no MHEG5. No way. It is not rocket science. If you are going to bother of selling new TVs you profile the countries according to what they have been using or what they have published. TVs do not have that much a short shelf life. Given that TVs produced in 2010/11 have short analogue lives, at least get the Digital TVs tuner right including the middleware and software. Its not as if it was the best kept secret! They expect people to pay up to €1000 and they cant include mandatory requirements. The consumer doesnt know that they should have bought the UK model because the European/Irish model doesnt have the right software options turned on. And given the headaches with Dbook inconsistencies it just one big joke.

http://www.ibec.ie/ceda

Yes I am very annoyed

The Cush

STB wrote: »

Sorry Cush (and you are not someone I disagree with normally)

Not a problem, we'll agree to disagree.

dowtchaboy

I banged in a complaint to ASAI this morning re the LIDL TV - both the "HD Ready" not being the same as "Full HD", and the total disregard for Saorview/MPEG4 - just to be awkward, like.
Expect it will have just as much impact as my complaint to LIDL - i.e. none.

marclt

Hey Dowtchaboy,

I emailed the Lidl press people to see what they have to say about the set. We'll see!

M

dowtchaboy

dowtchaboy wrote: »

I banged in a complaint to ASAI this morning re the LIDL TV - both the "HD Ready" not being the same as "Full HD", and the total disregard for Saorview/MPEG4 - just to be awkward, like.
Expect it will have just as much impact as my complaint to LIDL - i.e. none.

Well - got a letter from ASAI this morning - a letter! 15 seconds sending an email would have been just fine....but obviously Office Procedure requires a letter....
The letter said - well nothing, really - they "will be in contact with" me in the near future. Hope they are in contact with LIDL before customers get gouged ...errr... misled on Thursday. I don't really care if or when they get in touch with me - I'm not important in this.

I am still wondering though - which public servant or public body bears responsibility for monitoring this mis-selling? ASAI are neither public nor a quango - BCI/BAI doesn't seem to cover it - Is there a section in the Department of Trade, Industry, Gender Equality, The Gaeltacht, Fisheries and Voting Machine Storage or something that would take an interest?

Sam Russell

I phoned Lidl and the guy that answered seemed happy that it was OK for them to sell a 'digital television' that could not receive RTE's digital service. I cannot understand why it is so difficult for them to put a sign out that says 'Unsuitable for Irish DTT, launched 29th Oct 2010'

Are compatible sets so much dearer.

watty

Because they are not legally obliged to do so and it would hurt sales.

I'm sure they will refund anyone bringing back a TV that is "not fit for purpose", which keeps them within the law.

Joe7

Nobody is going to advertise what their products don't do. I suppose if they were forced to, they wouldn't stock these tvs in the first place.

marclt

So where does leave things...

We write in relation to your recent email regarding the television that we are selling in our store.
We have contacted our Purchasing Department and they have advised us of the following:

"The government only recently decided on the technical requirements being used to receive Saorview. Therefore retailers did not have sufficient time to adapt their technology. As a result almost no retailer on the Irish market is selling a TV that has the DVB-T Receiver ( with MPEG 4) and MHEG 5. Lidl on the other hand will sell a 32" Full HD TV on 11th November that has both components built in. This ensures that the product fully works with the service as it meets the relevant specification. Due to the MHEG 5 it also is capable to receive the digital teletext as well as the electronic programme guide. Other retailers in Ireland though will continue to sell TV's without the above mentioned technology built in. It is still possible to get a standard TV compatible with Saorview, as there will be set top boxes sold on the Irish market by retailers like maxview that carry the "SAORVIEW" logo. These boxes are put between the TV and the digital terrestrial aerial."

irishchris

looking at lidls website they either are still selling a mpeg 2 tv or have not updated site

22" full hd
spec
With built-in DVBT tuner & external DVBT rod aerial (MPEG2)

Sponge Bob

It probably has Mp4 which IS NOT MPEG4

watty

DVB-T Receiver ( with MPEG 4) and MHEG 5. Lidl on the other hand will sell a 32" Full HD TV on 11th November that has both components built in. This ensures that the product fully works with the service as it meets the relevant specification. Due to the MHEG 5 it also is capable to receive the digital teletext as well as the electronic programme guide.

I shall examine box tomorrow, if any left

dixiefly

marclt wrote: »

So where does leave things...

We write in relation to your recent email regarding the television that we are selling in our store.
We have contacted our Purchasing Department and they have advised us of the following:

"The government only recently decided on the technical requirements being used to receive Saorview. Therefore retailers did not have sufficient time to adapt their technology. As a result almost no retailer on the Irish market is selling a TV that has the DVB-T Receiver ( with MPEG 4) and MHEG 5. Lidl on the other hand will sell a 32" Full HD TV on 11th November that has both components built in. This ensures that the product fully works with the service as it meets the relevant specification. Due to the MHEG 5 it also is capable to receive the digital teletext as well as the electronic programme guide. Other retailers in Ireland though will continue to sell TV's without the above mentioned technology built in. It is still possible to get a standard TV compatible with Saorview, as there will be set top boxes sold on the Irish market by retailers like maxview that carry the "SAORVIEW" logo. These boxes are put between the TV and the digital terrestrial aerial."

That statement nearly creates more questions than it answers. Is the 32" a typo? Are they saying that it WILL pick up the MPEG 4 transmissions?

The Cush

marclt wrote: »

So where does leave things...

We write in relation to your recent email regarding the television that we are selling in our store.
We have contacted our Purchasing Department and they have advised us of the following:

"The government only recently decided on the technical requirements being used to receive Saorview. Therefore retailers did not have sufficient time to adapt their technology. As a result almost no retailer on the Irish market is selling a TV that has the DVB-T Receiver ( with MPEG 4) and MHEG 5. Lidl on the other hand will sell a 32" Full HD TV on 11th November that has both components built in. This ensures that the product fully works with the service as it meets the relevant specification. Due to the MHEG 5 it also is capable to receive the digital teletext as well as the electronic programme guide. Other retailers in Ireland though will continue to sell TV's without the above mentioned technology built in. It is still possible to get a standard TV compatible with Saorview, as there will be set top boxes sold on the Irish market by retailers like maxview that carry the "SAORVIEW" logo. These boxes are put between the TV and the digital terrestrial aerial."

The government only recently decided on the technical requirements being used to receive Saorview. Therefore retailers did not have sufficient time to adapt their technology.

Version 1 of the receiver specification appeared in Dec 2008, how much time did they need?

I assume they are referring to version 2 of the minimum receiver spec which was published the same week the Saorview trial was launched. There was no change in the technical spec between v1 and v2 - DVB-T/MPEG-4/MHEG-5, appears just to be an update to meet v2.2 of the Nordig requirements.

More to do with increasing consumer awareness and emails I would guess.

As a result almost no retailer on the Irish market is selling a TV that has the DVB-T Receiver ( with MPEG 4) and MHEG 5.

Power City and the Expert Electrical stores have been advertising Irish DTT ready products since earlier this year albeit some not Saorview certified. I purchased a Sony that has DVB-T Receiver ( with MPEG 4) and MHEG 5 from Peats in July. Others also if you know what you're looking for.

Other retailers in Ireland though will continue to sell TV's without the above mentioned technology built in.

But the question is will Lidl continue to sell MPEG-2 only products beside MPEG-4 ones?

It is still possible to get a standard TV compatible with Saorview, as there will be set top boxes sold on the Irish market by retailers like maxview that carry the "SAORVIEW" logo. These boxes are put between the TV and the digital terrestrial aerial."

I assume what Lidl is saying is "it is still possible to make a standard B]MPEG-2 Lidl[/B TV compatible with Saorview" by adding a Saorview compatible STB.

Maxview "Saorview-certified" STB's???

Will Lidl be selling "digital terrestrial aerials" next?

Verso

The Cush wrote: »

Power City and the Expert Electrical stores have been advertising Irish DTT ready products since earlier this year albeit some not Saorview certified. I purchased a Sony that has DVB-T Receiver ( with MPEG 4) and MHEG 5 from Peats in July. Others also if you know what you're looking for.
/QUOTE]


I agree with The Cush here. I purchased a couple of Irish Digital ready LG TVs and a Sanyo TV from Power City earlier this year and all receive the Irish digital channels perfectly.

fat-tony

marclt wrote: »

So where does leave things...

We write in relation to your recent email regarding the television that we are selling in our store.
We have contacted our Purchasing Department and they have advised us of the following:

"The government only recently decided on the technical requirements being used to receive Saorview. Therefore retailers did not have sufficient time to adapt their technology. As a result almost no retailer on the Irish market is selling a TV that has the DVB-T Receiver ( with MPEG 4) and MHEG 5. Lidl on the other hand will sell a 32" Full HD TV on 11th November that has both components built in. This ensures that the product fully works with the service as it meets the relevant specification. Due to the MHEG 5 it also is capable to receive the digital teletext as well as the electronic programme guide. Other retailers in Ireland though will continue to sell TV's without the above mentioned technology built in. It is still possible to get a standard TV compatible with Saorview, as there will be set top boxes sold on the Irish market by retailers like maxview that carry the "SAORVIEW" logo. These boxes are put between the TV and the digital terrestrial aerial."

That response completely contradicts the reply I got on 5th November from the Purchasing Dept., through the Customer Service area, which stated that the 22" (not 32") TV was MPEG-2 only and they knew it was MPEG-2 :rolleyes:

Here's the extract from that email:

Dear Mr xxxx,

We write to you following your recent email regarding the Television which we have advertised on the 11th November 2010.

We wish to advise you that our Purchasing Department have contacted the manufacturer and they have confirmed that this model of television is MPEG 2 and it does not support MPEG4, this is stated on the specification of this model. Unfortunately we are unable to assist you any further with your query.

Assuring you of our best intentions at all times.

Regards,

xxxxxxx

Sponge Bob

So one department in Lidl are denying what another department in Lidl have already confirmed.

Not a single Lidl ...or Aldi .... Digital TV sold in Ireland is capable of showing an RTE TV Broadcast Digital signal. They are a disgrace the pair of them

marclt

Best to avoid I think.. but this is the problem - the average Jo/e won't be able to tell.

If RTE et al want to drive people to Saorview (and the BAI have an interest in this because they will want to proceed with their flawed commercial plans as soon as launch proper commences) then they need to start publicising NOW.

With the Christmas and New Year sales period upon us, people will want to buy gifts or treat themselves. Approved manufacturers (are we up to 2 yet??) will eventually badge up their products but retailers need to have the publicity material to properly advise.

There really is no excuse for this lack of public information.

channelsurfer2

currys are now advertising 2 tvs as "mpeg4 irish dtt compatable" in the papers this morning. they have 2 other tv's in the same ad which they dont mention as dtt compatable.... so at least they are starting to realise irish dtt is here.

The Cush

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

currys are now advertising 2 tvs as "mpeg4 irish dtt compatable" in the papers this morning. they have 2 other tv's in the same ad which they dont mention as dtt compatable.... so at least they are starting to realise irish dtt is here.

The ads are not in the Indo or Times, in the tabloids I guess. There was the Currys and PC World Christmas flyer in the Irish Times today and in yesterday's Limerick Post but in two pages of TV adverts not a mention of MPEG-4 or Irish DTT compatibility.

Maybe the ads in the papers are a damage limitation exercise following the thread over in the Currys and PC World forum.

Sponge Bob

DID advertise their non mpeg4 'tvs' as being an "LCD" instead of a TV on the strapline. It is an LCD

Currys and DID are not the worst offenders by any means, unlike the Germans and their Mpeg2 cack.

fat-tony

I dropped in to my local Lidl this morning. All the 22" TVs and 24" monitors have been sold. Nothing on the poster for the TV to indicate any potential issue with Irish DTT. Oh well

Fr0g

Had a look, MPEG2 on the box nothing about saorview or Irish DTT. Definitely no mention of MPEG4.

watty

It was just a MPEG2 set, that can only do HD via HDMI. So no good for ANY Digital TV here and no good for HD TV DDT in UK.

I have photographs. But just camera phone.


They mis-described the PC monitor beside too. I have 8 year old Monitors that are higher resolution. 1920x1080 is only TV HD. No mention if it's 60Hz or 50Hz. But a DVI 1920x1080 monitor is likely 60Hz. No use as an HDMI screen for Sky or UPC box (no HDMI). A "Full HD" in a description only applies to TV use. It's not a "tuner-less" TV screen

dowtchaboy

Re mis-selling/mislabelling at ALDI and LIDL - I was in ALDI yesterday and they now have signs pointing out that ASO will happen in 2012 at which point these TV's will not work without purchasing a set-top box - can't remember the exact wording but fair dues to them they do make it clear the TV tuners will stop working.

The signs I saw were at the checkout - you know up on the wall where they usually have the "If you wish to purchase XYZ that is too valuable to leave out on the shopfloor where some of you gurriers might nick it... please contact the manager...." - since they don't have any TVs on sale the the moment I don't know if they make these signs more prominent when they do.

fat-tony

It will be interesting if Lidl follow suit as regards labelling MPEG-2 TVs. I have asked them repeatedly to at least flag the sets as being incompatible with Saorview.

watty

watty wrote: »

It was just a MPEG2 set, that can only do HD via HDMI. So no good for ANY Digital TV here and no good for HD TV DDT in UK.

I have photographs. But just camera phone.


They mis-described the PC monitor beside too. I have 8 year old Monitors that are higher resolution. 1920x1080 is only TV HD. No mention if it's 60Hz or 50Hz. But a DVI 1920x1080 monitor is likely 60Hz. No use as an HDMI screen for Sky or UPC box (no HDMI). A "Full HD" in a description only applies to TV use. It's not a "tuner-less" TV screen

BTW a 100% re-call + refund on the Monitors due to a serious safety issue.

JonathonS

dowtchaboy wrote: »

I am still wondering though - which public servant or public body bears responsibility for monitoring this mis-selling?

I was thinking of getting a new TV but after a few evenings reading the threads on DTT here i'm not sure. My idea was to go FTA satellite and DTT....

anyway, ref dowtchaboy's question, what about the CAI?
www.cai.ie