Donegal South West by-election: November 25th

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InchicoreDude

Does Doherty have a chance of getting this seat? Particularly as he was the one who forced the election? What a result that would be for the government

c_man

donegalfella wrote: »

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I read the Pat The Cope said he was approached last night to come back and run for the Dail but was ruling it out. Wasn't there talk about Packie Bonner running? They'll have to find someone soon.

Biggins

They have already (AGAIN!) today rejected (by vote in the Dail) the motion/calls for the other bye-elections.
Even this flys in the face of the judgement yesterday of the judge in relation to Donegal.

InchicoreDude

Extract from Rte.ie

Meanwhile, North West MEP Pat the Cope Gallagher confirmed to Ocean FM that he will not be a candidate in the Donegal South-West by-election.
Mr Gallagher revealed that he had been approached by senior figures within the Fianna Fáil party last night and this morning to stand, but insists he will stay on in Europe.

Am I the only one appalled by this? They create the vacancy so they wont lose the european seat. Now, they want to bring him back so they keep the seat. Ao the two positions will never actually be filled at the same time??? Surely, there should be something that would prevent this from ever occurring as it is purely anti-democratic.

Fair play to Gallagher though for not coming back (Or maybe hes just afraid he wont win, I dont know).

Fo Real

c_man wrote: »

Wasn't there talk about Packie Bonner running?.

This is true. source
He is solely being considered because he would be a sure-bet to win. It's a sign of desperation when the government must resort to shallow celeb politics to cling onto power. All style over substance. What does a former goal keeper know about politics? What inidcation is there that he would benefit the national interest?

PatsytheNazi

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Does Doherty have a chance of getting this seat? Particularly as he was the one who forced the election? What a result that would be for the government

Looks like Pearse Doherty would have a strong chance. But don't be surprised if some sensational stories start to appear in Sir Tony's Indo comics penned by the likes of Paul Williams or Jim Cusack like " Pearse Doherty ordered killing of Jean McConville " even though he wasn't born when it happened or mysterious ' documents ' will be uncovered showing he was the leader of the IRA in Donegal in the early 1990's even though he was a young lad. Watch this space for more.......:rolleyes:

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mac_iomhair

I don't know about that, mcbrearty has a big suppourt in the finn and deele valleys. He has a track record of being outspoken and the people will know their voice will be heard in the Dail. I think he will get a big vote. Thats not to say I'm voting for him, but I wouldn't count him out. I think its between mcbrearty and doherty, both of whom would represent us very well in the Dail.

Biggins

I don't think I should start another thread along a similar vein as this one so I ask a question here.

Why can't the government be taken to court in regards to the other areas of overdue bye-elections?
If one court case and pressurise the FF/Greens to name a date, why can't two or three more do similar?

If we are waiting for the gov' appeal to tale place, we know (and FF certainly know) the general election will be upon us in certainly with time beforehand.

K-9

donegalfella wrote: »

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Doherty is a likeable character too, young and presentable. I'd be surprised he doesn't get it, even if he is up against Packie or even Daniel!

Larrson

Finn valley area ( Ballybofey ) is not in The sw Donegal area, so Mc Breaty wouldn't get the votes of tha area

mac_iomhair

Larrson wrote: »

Finn valley area ( Ballybofey ) is not in The sw Donegal area, so Mc Breaty wouldn't get the votes of tha area

i think you should do your research before you come on here making statements like that...:rolleyes:

Larrson

Why is it?

mac_iomhair

Larrson wrote: »

Why is it?

Yes!:)

Larrson

Ok then, their was no need to be sacarstic about it.

Sleepy

Presumably similar suits will now be filed in the other electoral constituency.

Were I in an opposition party I would encourage that the parties come together to nominate a single candidate in each district, encourage their combined supporters to vote for the candidate against anyone Fianna Fail or the The Greens run and once the by-election results are in, call a vote of no confidence in the government forcing a General Election asap.

mac_iomhair

Larrson wrote: »

Ok then, their was no need to be sacarstic about it.

You tried to call me out on my post quite sarcastically I was just returning the favour...

K-9

Larrson wrote: »

Finn valley area ( Ballybofey ) is not in The sw Donegal area, so Mc Breaty wouldn't get the votes of tha area

It was revised for the last election definitely, not sure about the one before that. Convoy and Raphoe are now in it.

connundrum

Sleepy wrote: »

Presumably similar suits will now be filed in the other electoral constituency.

Were I in an opposition party I would encourage that the parties come together to nominate a single candidate in each district, encourage their combined supporters to vote for the candidate against anyone Fianna Fail or the The Greens run and once the by-election results are in, call a vote of no confidence in the government forcing a General Election asap.

FG have already lodged a case:

FG Waterford By-Election candidate to bring court proceedings against Government

Fine Gael Waterford Senator and By-election candidate, Paudie Coffey, has given formal notice to the Government of his intention to bring proceedings against the Government for failing to support the moving of the writ for the Waterford Constituency following the Government voting down this writ in the Dáil today (Thursday).

Senator Coffey will ask the Court to treat this action as a refusal to remedy the continuing constitutional wrong arising out of the failure to hold the Waterford by-election.

“There has been a vacancy in Waterford for eight months since the resignation of Martin Cullen on March 8th 2010. Now that the High Court has ruled that the writ for a by-election must be moved with a reasonable time of the vacancy arising, which has not been done in Waterford, the Government is perpetrating a continuing constitutional wrong in its failure to move the writ.

“Today, the Government voted against the writ in the wake of the Doherty Judgement which trenchantly criticised the Government for dishonouring the spirit of the Constitution by their continued frustration of the democratic process. They are motivated only by their determination to evade the electorate and their actions have forced me to bring these proceedings.”

Senator Coffey called on the Government to look for an expedited Supreme Court hearing to allow the High Court to consider the delay in the remaining vacancies without further delay.

“The Government is trying to misuse the courts at taxpayers’ expense and make what can only be described as a frivolous, vexatious and unnecessary application to the Supreme Court. The issue in dispute in these proceedings was whether there should or should not be a by-election in Donegal South West. The High Court ruled that there should. The Government has acceded to that and the by-election is now taking place. There is no legal issue now in dispute between the Government of Ireland and the plaintiff in these proceedings. There is no justifiable, credible basis for an appeal to the Supreme Court. To travel that route is to waste taxpayers’ money out of pure political cowardice.”

mac_iomhair

Its an outrage that the other by-elections have been blocked today. There is a feeling of absolute powerlessness when a Government can block the democtratic process like this. A general election must be called before this Budget is finalised so as the people of Ireland can choose its own future. The people have to protest at this stage.

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hallelujajordan

Sleepy wrote: »

Presumably similar suits will now be filed in the other electoral constituency.

Were I in an opposition party I would encourage that the parties come together to nominate a single candidate in each district, encourage their combined supporters to vote for the candidate against anyone Fianna Fail or the The Greens run and once the by-election results are in, call a vote of no confidence in the government forcing a General Election asap.

This will not happen . . Our opposition parties have shown time and again that they cannot work together. Worrying, given they will likely share government in the next Dail.

Sleepy

I know it won't happen, hallelujajordan, just as I know that no matter how many times it's pointed out to you the opposition being less than perfect does not fail to make them a significanly more attractive option than your beloved soldiers of destiny. Especially when those soldiers are fighting a war of attrition against the democratic rights of their people.

Hang on a minute. Since FF are now judged by the law of the land to be acting undemocratically, do you think there's a chance we could get America to deal with them in the name of democracy?!

Larrson

mac_iomhair wrote: »

You tried to call me out on my post quite sarcastically I was just returning the favour...

No i didn't try to call you are any one else out, as you put it, and i didn't quote your thread did I , i genuinely thought finn valley area was not in the sw donegal area thats all no more no less, my Fault, but i was not having a go at any one not like you did .

mac_iomhair

Larrson wrote: »

No i didn't try to call you are any one else out, as you put it, and i didn't quote your thread did I , i genuinely thought finn valley area was not in the sw donegal area thats all no more no less, my Fault, but i was not having a go at any one not like you did .

larsson, time to move on!!

Larrson

mac_iomhair wrote: »

you were wrong larsson now get over it... jesus christ!!

Excuse me, I was wrong about what the Finn Valley area, But not about you, Jesus Christ

Biggins

...Back on topic, I know its been probably said already but I too think its a disgrace at this time that FF are putting in an appeal - yes, they say they are justifying this with an excuse to say they are testing the law or such like - but in reality most of us suspect that they are just delaying or trying to delay/stop SF from doing similar again in the other areas of bye-elections needed.

If FF was that worried about time limits on the calling of elections, they would have just called one sooner, gone about previously changing the electoral laws and saved a whole lot of hassle!
As it is - and we know/suspect it! - they are just trying to yet again, hang on as long as possible and nothing more. :mad:

mac_iomhair

Larrson wrote: »

Excuse me, I was wrong about what the Finn Valley area, But not about you, Jesus Christ

why did you mention finn valley wasnt in the donegal south west?

Larrson

mac_iomhair wrote: »

why did you mention finn valley wasnt in the donegal south west?

SW Donegal polling Area?

mac_iomhair

Larrson wrote: »

SW Donegal polling Area?

yes, what made you bring that up out of the blue?

Larrson

mac_iomhair wrote: »

yes, what made you bring that up out of the blue?

Read my first post, where are you going with this?. This is my last post on this as it is getting rather stupid. You can have the last say on this.

Biggins

This the serious politics section - not the "After Hours fight club" - can we move on or stay on topic? PLEASE?

mac_iomhair

I apologise, i got dragged into it.

Scofflaw

And let that be an end to it, because I don't care who started it. I only care that it's happening, and if it continues to happen once this post appears on the thread, anyone involved will be banned for 24 hours.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Biggins

I don't know what politics and/or thinking is up that direction but from anyone that direction I'd like to hear whom they think will get to eventually fill the open seat?

FG? Labour? Other? On the ground what's the people possibly there saying so far?

Wolfe Tone

I imagine SF will win.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I would usually vote labour or independent but after what Pearse Doherty did to bring this bye-election about I would give him my vote.

I'd imagine there's a lot of people in DSW feel the same way

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Biggins

What I will be watching this bye-election for is not just who is going to win but also by how badly FF are going to be defeated also.
I think we all know they are not going to win it - it will just be a case of how badly they are going to lose it and if they will even lose any of their basic normal trusted, reliable FF traditional family bred supporters!

If that is significantly dented, it could have serious, very serious ramifications for the party as a whole to chew over!

hallelujajordan

Biggins wrote: »

What I will be watching this bye-election for is not just who is going to win but also by how badly FF are going to be defeated also.
I think we all know they are not going to win it - it will just be a case of how badly they are going to lose it and if they will even lose any of their basic normal trusted, reliable FF traditional family bred supporters!

If that is significantly dented, it could have serious, very serious ramifications for the party as a whole to chew over!

Based on national polls etc I would have tended to agree with you . . cannot see how FF can expect anything other than defeat . . .

HOWEVER . . Philip Boucher Hayes, speaking from Donegal on Drivetime tonight said that he spent the day in Donegal today and that the "vast vast majority of people" indicated to him that they would be voting Fianna Fail, even though many of them would not say so on the radio . .

I have to admit, I had not realised how strong a FF constituency Donegal SW was . . 2.04 quotas and greater than 50% of first preference votes in the 2007 General Election . .

southsiderosie

Can somebody clarify - the President can only dissolve the Dail if there is a no-confidence vote, or the Taioseach asks? Is there some kind of constitutional way for them to step in? Sorry, I'm a little fuzzy on how these mechanisms work.

Biggins

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Based on national polls etc I would have tended to agree with you . . cannot see how FF can expect anything other than defeat . . .

HOWEVER . . Philip Boucher Hayes, speaking from Donegal on Drivetime tonight said that he spent the day in Donegal today and that the "vast vast majority of people" indicated to him that they would be voting Fianna Fail, even though many of them would not say so on the radio . .

I have to admit, I had not realised how strong a FF constituency Donegal SW was . . 2.04 quotas and greater than 50% of first preference votes in the 2007 General Election . .

If thats the case, its a crazy situation.

I don't know of Mr Philip Boucher Hayes or his own leanings but is there any chance at all, that he might be saying these things in an effort to shore up support for FF?
Genuine question as I seriously don't know what way he leans himself politically.

If he's not a FF man then fair enough, its clearly an indicator as to how things are really screwed-up in that Donegal area.

K-9

The last Bye election held there, in the mid 90's, returned an Independent so 2 Quotas and high FF support in a GE, doesn't necessarily transfer over.

Local considerations will come into it and some of the Coughlan vote may go to O'Neill.

I'd say the publicity will certainly have done Pearse no harm! O'Domhnaill is a young Senator and Udaras Councillor IIRC, who'll probably realistically be aiming to replace The Cope at the next GE.

imme

southsiderosie wrote: »

Can somebody clarify - the President can only dissolve the Dail if there is a no-confidence vote, or the Taioseach asks? Is there some kind of constitutional way for them to step in? Sorry, I'm a little fuzzy on how these mechanisms work.

from The Constitution:

　

Article 2.

1° Dáil Éireann shall be summoned and dissolved by the President on the advice of the Taoiseach.

2° The President may in his absolute discretion refuse to dissolve Dáil Éireann on the advice of a Taoiseach who has ceased to retain the support of a majority in Dáil Éireann.

K-9

imme wrote: »

from The Constitution:

　

Article 2.

1° Dáil Éireann shall be summoned and dissolved by the President on the advice of the Taoiseach.

2° The President may in his absolute discretion refuse to dissolve Dáil Éireann on the advice of a Taoiseach who has ceased to retain the support of a majority in Dáil Éireann.

I assume that was used by the Rainbow coalition in 94 and no election was needed. It may also have been what Brian Lenihan Snr. was ringing the President about in 1982.

ednwireland

To date the candidates to contest the Donegal South West by-election are
Fine Gael Barry O’Neill
Senator Pearse Doherty Sinn Fein
Frank McBrearty Jnr is the Labour party
Thomas Pringle Independant
Senator Brian ODomhnaill Fianna fail (possible)
Tom Conaghan Independent
Patsy Brogan Independant (bog hotel owner)

will all the independants steal doherty's vote (esp pringle) and a ff split esp round donegal town with conaghan running (basically a FF'er from what i hear)

honestly i could see FF wining round here esp if mary shows her face (apart from the opening of an envelope) but i seriously hope not

never heard of the FG guy so wont vote for him

so pearse it is

bijapos

K-9 wrote: »

The last Bye election held there, in the mid 90's, returned an Independent so 2 Quotas and high FF support in a GE, doesn't necessarily transfer over.

According to this it returned a FFer, Cecilia Keaveney who was voted in on the death of Neil Blaney (Independent FF).

http://electionsireland.org/result.cfm?election=1992B&cons=72&ref=114

I'm not sure that SF will win this seat, they might top the poll on first preferences but will they get high transfers when others start to get eliminated?


btw is Barry O'Neill FG the reporter who works for RTE?

proon4

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Extract from Rte.ie


Am I the only one appalled by this? They create the vacancy so they wont lose the european seat. Now, they want to bring him back so they keep the seat. Ao the two positions will never actually be filled at the same time??? Surely, there should be something that would prevent this from ever occurring as it is purely anti-democratic.

Fair play to Gallagher though for not coming back (Or maybe hes just afraid he wont win, I dont know).

Of course he wont come back.. he wouldnt have a hope of winning a seat. Remember Pat (the cope) Gallagher is a man who loves his money. He is still drawing his ministeral pension as well as the exhorbinant Euro MP salary and sinful expenses. The only ex-minger, sorry ex minister (freudian slip) who brazened it out when the rest of the mingers were shamed into either not collecting it or donating it to "charitys".. BTW I dont think any of them told us which charities...Maybe Mickleen D in Galway will inform us of his chosen " Charitys"... No The "Cope" will continue to gorge himself at the euro trough courtesy of us the taxpayers

proon4

bijapos wrote: »

According to this it returned a FFer, Cecilia Keaveney who was voted in on the death of Neil Blaney (Independent FF).

http://electionsireland.org/result.cfm?election=1992B&cons=72&ref=114

I'm not sure that SF will win this seat, they might top the poll on first preferences but will they get high transfers when others start to get eliminated?


btw is Barry O'Neill FG the reporter who works for RTE?

Yes thats the same Barry O Neill... Id never vote for a blueshirt, but O Neill is a fairly genuine hardworking community activist in the southern part of the constituancy