Leamy vs SOB

Gracelessly Tom

Right, there's enough arguing over this on at least three other threads so here's one just for this argument.

Personally I'd go for SOB, Leamy on the bench and leave Wallace out.

phog

SOB

For this match I'm happy with the players selected. I'd like to see Leamy get a shot at the No8 jersey for one of the remining 3 matches.

laugh

phog wrote: »

For this match I'm happy with the players selected. I'd like to see Leamy get a shot at the No8 jersey for one of the remining 3 matches.

Haha, comedy gold from the Limerick man.

phog

SOB

laugh wrote: »

Haha, comedy gold from the Limerick man.

Why?

bamboozle

my back row would be Ferris SOB Heaslip with Wallace on bench to come on and wreak havoc for 20 mins against tiring defences.

laugh

phog wrote: »

Why?

I don't need to read your opinion to know what it will be.

Gracelessly Tom

I think Leamy has been playing very well this season so far and deserves a crack at the squad (believe me, it hurts to say that!!:)), Wallace is the one I'd drop, SOB to start.

Mr.Applepie

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

I think Leamy has been playing very well this season so far and deserves a crack at the squad (believe me, it hurts to say that!!:)), Wallace is the one I'd drop, SOB to start.

I agree with you. It debate should have been Leamy vs. Wallace vs. Ferris. I still think there are one or two untouchables in the team

phog

SOB

laugh wrote: »

I don't need to read your opinion to know what it will be.

Why join Boards if you dont want to hear a person's honest opinion

Risteard

laugh wrote: »

Haha, comedy gold from the Limerick man.

You expect Heaslip to play every one of the 4 international matches?

laugh

phog wrote: »

Why join Boards if you dont want to hear a person's honest opinion

It's just funny when an opinion is predictable and never wavering.

Otacon

I would have started SOB and had Leamy on the bench. Not sure Wallace is suited to this game TBH.

antogz1979

SOB

I think Wallace deserves his place, SOB can feel very unlucky not to make the bench but i can see why Kidney picked Leamy.
What about 6 SOB 7 Wallace 8 Heaslip. No one has mentioned this. Ferris has'nt been that impresive this year yet. SOB played the 2 Heineken cups their and a few Magners league at 6. Give him a go at 6 and leave Ferris out would people agree with that. Is their an arguement for it.

Risteard

Risteard wrote: »

You expect Heaslip to play every one of the 4 international matches?

So true. With the depth in backrow a top class player is always going to be left out. I expect SOB to feature in the NZ test at the expense of Leamy or Wallace. My initial reaction was 'wtf' to SOBs omission but I've decided to wait until after the internationals before passing remarks. I'm (now) happy with Leamys inclusion in the grand scheme of things .

Gracelessly Tom

antogz1979 wrote: »

What about 6 SOB 7 Wallace 8 Heaslip. No one has mentioned this. Ferris has'nt been that impresive this year yet. SOB played the 2 Heineken cups their and a few Magners league at 6. Give him a go at 6 and leave Ferris out would people agree with that. Is their an arguement for it.

Not sure I'd have Wallace ahead of Leamy, but you make a valid point in regards to maybe Ferris being the one to miss out.

Maybe Kidney is going on Ferris's record against SA (or SA teams in general). He was scoring for fun before injury hit on the Lions tour.

antogz1979

SOB

Deleted User wrote: »

So true. With the depth in backrow a top class player is always going to be left out. I expect SOB to feature in the NZ test at the expense of Leamy or Wallace. My initial reaction was 'wtf' to SOBs omission but I've decided to wait until after the internationals before passing remarks. I'm (now) happy with Leamys inclusion in the grand scheme of things .

I agree, or at least against the Argies where it could be a bigger test for him. Too many people throwing their toys out of the pram. Their is still a big possibilty that SOB will be starting next year in the World cup considering Wallace will be another year older.

phog

SOB

laugh wrote: »

It's just funny when an opinion is predictable and never wavering.

I'm so happy I can bring you some joy in a day where it must be so hard to accept the qualities of an Irish team.

Who do you hope will win on Saturday?

Username37

In my opinion it should have been Leamy v Ferris at 6.

Username37

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

Right, there's enough arguing over this on at least three other threads so here's one just for this argument.

Personally I'd go for SOB, Leamy on the bench and leave Wallace out.

I don't think anyone but the most biased could reasonably argue that O'Brien doesn't deserve to be there ahead of Leamy.

At the same time I think it needs to be accepted that Leamy deserves to be in an Irish 22 but in the same way that Trimble, Wallace and Earls deserve to be in an Irish 22. They all deserve to be there but competition will dictate that 1 or 2 deserving players will miss out. In this case, on current form Leamy should have missed out, not O'Brien.

Podge_irl

I don't entirely understand not having SOB on the bench though I'll readily admit I haven't seen much of Leamy this season. SOB provides better cover though - there is no cover for Wallace at the moment. SOB can play 6/7, Wallace can play 7/8.

Who would I pick for what?

For the next match? I haven't a clue, what's our gameplan? Are we playing ROG or Sexton at 10?

Do we need a lineout specialist?

Are we going to have a referee who penalises every defender for not releasing, or every attacker for holding onto the ball?

Will we be running balls off the back of the scrum or are we playing predominantly with the ball in the backline?

Do we have D'Arcy or Wallace at 12, and as a result need/don't need another crash-ball receiver on 2nd phase on the pitch?

Is it going to rain?

Am I making a point correctly here? Out of context, this question is meaningless. A team plays a team game, I have no idea of any of the answers to the above, so cannot answer the question in the OP. The dynamics of a team mean that changing one player may completely change the team and tactics, so as a result, Leamy could very well be better placed to play the gameplan that we have, than SOB.

I reckon not many people would make it far in rugby second guessing someone of Kidney's calibre.

laugh

phog wrote: »

I'm so happy I can bring you some joy in a day where it must be so hard to accept the qualities of an Irish team.

Who do you hope will win on Saturday?

I hope Ireland win, I want hard working on form players to make the squad, I had come to respect D Kidney that he wasn't making choices based on any allegiances to players he has worked with in the long term. I hope he continues in that vane, I'll see how the rest of the matches pan out but to hear people on here describe SOB as over-rated drives me a bit crazy, I try to be fair about players no matter what color jersey they normally wear.

JustinDee

SOB

I voted for Leamy because he was lagging behind at the time.

If we back the winner, do we win anything ourselves?

Podge_irl

JustinDee wrote: »

If we back the winner, do we win anything ourselves?

Glory and honour.

Gracelessly Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

Who would I pick for what?

For the next match? I haven't a clue, what's our gameplan? Clue is in the answers to the poll, if you'd care to look at them. Are we playing ROG or Sexton at 10? Sexton

Do we need a lineout specialist? Leamy or SOB a lineout specialist? Didn't think so...

Are we going to have a referee who penalises every defender for not releasing, or every attacker for holding onto the ball?

Will we be running balls off the back of the scrum or are we playing predominantly with the ball in the backline?

Do we have D'Arcy or Wallace at 12, and as a result need/don't need another crash-ball receiver on 2nd phase on the pitch? D'arcy

Is it going to rain? Your point?

Am I making a point correctly here? Out of context, this question is meaningless. A team plays a team game, I have no idea of any of the answers to the above, so cannot answer the question in the OP. The dynamics of a team mean that changing one player may completely change the team and tactics, so as a result, Leamy could very well be better placed to play the gameplan that we have, than SOB.

I reckon not many people would make it far in rugby second guessing someone of Kidney's calibre.

Not sure you read the answers to the poll before posting this.

Gracelessly Tom

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

Not sure you read the answers to the poll before posting this.

I didn't, I was highlighting that one players choice has a lot to do with the rest of the team than many would have considered.

What's our gameplan for the match? How is that answered in the poll? Because that is pretty much the most essential questions of my post.

You need to look at the overall post, it was made to make you think... Not to be looked at as a series of statements.

Gah, this place is frustrating at least 80% of the time

some_dose

SOB

Kind of ironic that the poll for Leamy is red and for SOB is blue :rolleyes:

tolosenc

There's no question. SOB is a fantastic talent, he's young and in form. Leamy offers neither of the latter 2.

Gracelessly Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't, I was highlighting that one players choice has a lot to do with the rest of the team than many would have considered.

What's our gameplan for the match? How is that answered in the poll? Because that is pretty much the most essential questions of my post.

You need to look at the overall post, it was made to make you think... Not to be looked at as a series of statements.

Gah, this place is frustrating at least 80% of the time

I really don't see your point I'm afraid. The poll has nothing to do with the gameplan Kidney plans on using, it is based on the posters opinions and who they would pick out of the two, presumably the player they choose would in turn alter the gameplan they would employ.

Basing a team decision around one player / position?

Fantastic idea!

Come off it.
To appease you, I will let you know that I believe SOB is better than Leamy in most facets of the game, and is also in better form.

This does not mean that he fits into the Irish pack as well as / better than him though.

Stev_o

SOB

tolosenc wrote: »

There's no question. SOB is a fantastic talent, he's young and in form. Leamy offers neither of the latter 2.

Leamy has been in form actually which is surprising consider i thought he'd be a non factor this season for Munster but i actually think he's stepped up. Tbh i want to see if he can last at international level again because he's going to be needed come the RWC.

ButtersSuki

On form it has to be SOB, but Deccie and his Muster-bias/blinkers means there'll always be one (or more) eye-openers in most selections.

The bigger issue for me is Mick O'Driscoll getting in on the back of one good performance in a blowout of the Toulon 2nd (ish) team. Bob Casey must (still) be wondering what he has to do to get a look in.

Sorry, I meant to add "I await the deluge from Munster fans" line.

Gracelessly Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

Basing a team decision around one player / position?

Fantastic idea!

I never said anything about basing a team decision around one player/ position!! I did mention altering your gameplan. Big difference mate!

It's a simple question, who would you pick? Leamy or SOB? I ain't the one who went on about gameplan and who to pick where and how the ref was likely to perform, etc.

You asked "whats our gameplan for the match? How is that answered in the poll" - that has nothing to do with the poll!! I was merely interested in who people would have picked if they were the coach!

And thanks so much for appeasing me....:rolleyes:

tommy57

SOB

ButtersSuki wrote: »

On form it has to be SOB, but Deccie and his Muster-bias/blinkers means there'll always be one (or more) eye-openers in most selections.

The bigger issue for me is Mick O'Driscoll getting in on the back of one good performance in a blowout of the Toulon 2nd (ish) team. Bob Casey must (still) be wondering what he has to do to get a look in.

Sorry, I meant to add "I await the deluge from Munster fans" line.

i,m a leinster fan and i don't think kidney has the blinkers on considering he kept playing rob kearney in the last few internationals and kearney was playing brutal.

Gracelessly Tom

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

I never said anything about basing a team decision around one player/ position!! I did mention altering your gameplan. Big difference mate!

It's a simple question, who would you pick? Leamy or SOB? I ain't the one who went on about gameplan and who to pick where and how the ref was likely to perform, etc.

You asked "whats our gameplan for the match? How is that answered in the poll" - that has nothing to do with the poll!! I was merely interested in who people would have picked if they were the coach!

And thanks so much for appeasing me....:rolleyes:

Is that a joke? How is changing a gameplan not a team decision?

It's actually not a simple question, thats why I posted what I did. If it was a simple question, with a simple answer, why would coaches get paid so much?

Just because you're looking and focussing on one tiny part of a coaches framework for a team, doesn't make the picture black and White. There's a tonne of grey areas.

Gracelessly Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

Is that a joke? How is changing a gameplan not a team decision?

It's actually not a simple question, thats why I posted what I did. If it was a simple question, with a simple answer, why would coaches get paid so much?

Just because you're looking and focussing on one tiny part of a coaches framework for a team, doesn't make the picture black and White. There's a tonne of grey areas.

I didn't say changing a gameplan, I said altering the gameplan. As in altering the part of the gameplan that the No.6 would be involved in. And I also never mentioned the fact that changing the gameplan is not a team decision. You seem to have misread my posts.

I merely wanted to gauge peoples opinions on who they would pick between the two, did not want to know how the entire day and gameplan would feature into their thinking. Presumed they would take all of that into consideration before picking one over the other......

I am focussing on one tiny part of the coaches framework for the team, so explain to us the grey areas around picking the 6 that you mention there is a tonne of?

profitius

I reckon that SOB is potentially world class but we have alot of good backrow players so somebody has to miss out. SOB is the youngest and in Irish rugby you know what that means. All the players picked are proven internationals so I fail to see why people are complaining so much.

Leamy won't let the side down either. Don't forget that Leamy had a very good game against the leinster backrow last month.

Altering means changing...

I'm done with trying to help you see the light.

Personally hate reading through other people's back and forth ****e on this forum, and don't want to get sucked into one myself.

Carry on

Gracelessly Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

Altering means changing...

I'm done with trying to help you see the light.

Personally hate reading through other people's back and forth ****e on this forum, and don't want to get sucked into one myself.

Carry on

But now who will enlighten me?.....:rolleyes:

No point this developing into a tit for tat thread, I'd personally rather have seen SOB start, Leamy on the bench and Wallace missing out, all things considered.

Gracelessly Tom

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

But now who will enlighten me?.....:rolleyes:

Dictionary.com

You will discover the meanings of millions of words. It will allow you to check for synonyms like change, alter, adjust and many many more.

- ask a silly question, expect a silly answer

/end

Gracelessly Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

Dictionary.com

You will discover the meanings of millions of words. It will allow you to check for synonyms like change, alter, adjust and many many more.

- ask a silly question, expect a silly answer

/end

Podge_irl

ButtersSuki wrote: »

The bigger issue for me is Mick O'Driscoll getting in on the back of one good performance in a blowout of the Toulon 2nd (ish) team. Bob Casey must (still) be wondering what he has to do to get a look in.

Be better?

Casey is a 60 minute player at Premiership level, he's simply not the solution to any of our problems at international level.

Podge_irl

Podge_irl wrote: »

Be better?

Casey is a 60 minute player at Premiership level, he's simply not the solution to any of our problems at international level.

Come on now, you could easily put MOD's name in there and Magner's league and the sentence would remain true.

Surely one of Tuhoy , O'Donoghue, Ryan or Toner needs to be getting gametome?

Podge_irl

Deleted User wrote: »

Come on now, you could easily put MOD's name in there and Magner's league and the sentence would remain true.

Surely one of Tuhoy , O'Donoghue, Ryan or Toner needs to be getting gametome?

Tuohy isn't getting gametime for Ulster, EOD is just back from injury for Leinster. Ryan is justifiably behind MOD and shouldn't even be on the bench imo.

Toner should be there ahead of MOD in my view, though I can see a reasoning for why he isn't. Should be on the bench mind.


I just don't think the second row is as big an issue as the back row (though one is a load of middling options whereas the other is a load of excellent options). The second row is also an area I don't expect to see much change in for NZ or possibly Argentina, whereas SOB really should get the NZ game.

[Jackass]

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

Right, there's enough arguing over this on at least three other threads so here's one just for this argument.

Personally I'd go for SOB, Leamy on the bench and leave Wallace out.

I'd go with that exactly. I think Wallace's impact has declined drasticly over the last couple of seasons and his ball winning ability was never his strongest point, being more of a carrier and strong defensive player.

I think Leamy and O'Brien are the two strongest 7's in the country right now, but I'd prefer O'Brien to start ahead of Leamy as a 7, if it was at 8 I'd go for Leamy over O'Brien.

I think even as a bench player, O'Brien can cover the entire back-row, whereas Leamy doesn't have much track record as a 6.

Both are quality players though, Leamy has been Munsters best forward this season and it's with Wallace being in the match squad (let alone starting!) that's the real issue.

ButtersSuki

tommy57 wrote: »

i,m a leinster fan and i don't think kidney has the blinkers on considering he kept playing rob kearney in the last few internationals and kearney was playing brutal.

I didn't say he was anti-Leinster, I just feel that on occasion he does have a tendency to have a pro-Munster bias in selection.

It seems that Munster players have less to prove when they lose their place to injury than others (not solely Leinster players) and seem to get back into squads when first available; that he's slower to drop some Munster players (regardless of form) than others; that a player from another province (or dare I say it, overseas) has to be WAY better than a Munster player in the same position to get in - if it's any way close, he'll stick with the Munster player.

Look, it's nothing personal on Mick O'Driscoll (I've never met the guy), but he's NOT International class. Surely all but the most ardent Munster fan would agree with that?

Agree with you on Kearney but I will make this point - with teams kicking the ball less often he's not going to make as many spectacular catches and therefore be less visible than he was even a year/18 months ago.

Podge_irl

[Jackass] wrote: »

I think even as a bench player, O'Brien can cover the entire back-row, whereas Leamy doesn't have much track record as a 6.

6 is, by far, Leamy's best position...

phog

SOB

Podge_irl wrote: »

6 is, by far, Leamy's best position...

I would have thought same:eek:

Benny Cake

SOB

laugh wrote: »

It's just funny when an opinion is predictable and never wavering.

You've clearly never heard of irony.....

Nuigforce

phog wrote: »

I would have thought same:eek:

me too?

pmonster

I have no problem with Wallace starting he is a great player even if he hasn't shown it much this season and Leamy has been in great form for Munster so far this season prob there best back row.

My problem with the SOB selection is he is out playing both players at the mo and deserves at least a place on the bench. When the world cup comes around we are going to need all our players with international experience and this game would have been an ideal situation to get that.

Hopefully Kidney is going to get off to a winning start and then start mixing things up