How to access first floor windows cheaply?

tommy21

About half the windows in our house are sash (old style) windows, badly in need of being re-puttied and painted. While I can reach the ones on the ground floor (obviously), can anyone suggest a cheapish way of reaching the first floor windows - scaffolding/cherry picker is out as they are too expensive and it will take me many a weekend to get them done. A ladder would be the obvious choice, but it will be me working on my own so not sure how safe it would be in case it slipped. I have seen I guess what you would call platforms that can be extended up or down, has anyone used these and any idea of price and how far up they would extend? Thank you.

Buford T Justice

The scissor lifts can be quite expensive to hire, and you will need completely level working grounds to be lifting from.

Aluminium tower should do the trick. Hired one from sam hire there a while back and it was about €90. Hire it on saturday morning and bring it back on monday and its only a days hire.

tommy21

Sorry Fingers McGee (great name by way), should have been more specific. Attached is picture of what I think I mean. I would need something over 2 months I'd say, as its too weather dependent as well as not having time to devote full days to hire such equipment that you mention. Also I have no access in our back garden for such machinery. I'd hope something like this would not cost more than 150-200€?!

kitser

why don't you take them in?

tommy21

kitser wrote: »

why don't you take them in?

What, as in remove the frame from inside the house? Beyond me! What i want to do is (from outside) reputty what needs to be reputtied, use a heat gun to strip off peeling paint, treat and paint wood to make them last another few years.They are ancient and will last about another 7-10 years I estimate if I do them up now!

Buford T Justice

Then you may well need something like this then. Not sure how much they are to buy though. then again, they do have something like what you posted every so often in Lidl.

martin46585

the platform in the picture is no better than a step ladder, i have one, and is not going to get you up to thne first floor windows, why not buy yourself two bays of kwik stage scaffolding, which at this time has never been cheaper, and plenty of surplus stock being off loaded, safe as houses at that height. price per bay approx 50/60 euros......

Carlow52

Fingers McGee wrote: »

Then you may well need something like this then. Not sure how much they are to buy though. then again, they do have something like what you posted every so often in Lidl.

The lidl ones are just for light low-level work: The Valentine gear is the business!

OP: if you can lean a good quality ladder, with out riggers if u can, against the windowsill of each window, why not-open the bottom sash a tad and tie the ladder inside.

U can also get a safety harness to clip urself onto the ladder

nophd08

Using a harness is not a good idea unless someone is with you to release you when you fall and they need to be trained in such. You will pass out after 15-20 mins hanging in a harness.
Also clipping a harness to a ladder.......think about that for a second.

Buy some kwik stage scaffold. Job done.

massy086

i say take them in it really is not hard then you can work on one window at a time you would be able to really restore them to there best as you could use a good sander and then paint

tommy21

I'd say they'd bloody fall apart Nope I think I will go with the kwikstage or the valentine gear, which ever cheaper (probably kwikstage I'd guess). Does anyone know how difficult it is to assemble? Or does the name make it self-explanatory??!

Buford T Justice

tommy21 wrote: »

I'd say they'd bloody fall apart Nope I think I will go with the kwikstage or the valentine gear, which ever cheaper (probably kwikstage I'd guess). Does anyone know how difficult it is to assemble? Or does the name make it self-explanatory??!

Self explanatory really. Scaffolding like that is idiot proof to assemble, pardon the phrase.

Martron

you can hire scaffold towers. cheap enough. and you could clean the gutters while you are at it

easy to erect and move about. safest option i would say.

Darando

Scaffolding tower perhaps such as:

http://www.donedeal.ie/find/all/for-sale/Ireland/scaffolding%20tower?sort=price

... or try a few building hire centres, they should excess stock and would be willing to sell at discount with the building downturn.

Other option is try the auctions such as Wilsons - usually have lots of scaffolding (and towers) for sale. Try the monthly plant auction.

tommy21

So had one guy up to quote me from a proper contractors - awaiting quote by email.

In meantime I rang the local builders providers, they can do a second-hand aluminium tower for 1500€. Suppose I'll know if that is good or bad value one they come back with a quote. Have two other quotes to get too.

studdlymurphy

1500??? have a look at This is it what you were after and theyt do free delivery

tommy21

studdlymurphy wrote: »

1500??? have a look at This is it what you were after and theyt do free delivery

I know! Seems unbelievably for second hand :rolleyes: I've heard so much bad press about donedeal is all but worth following up that one, which is the price I expected to pay. Based in Cork here so if anyone can recommend anywhere (or anyone!) it would be great

Buford T Justice

If its going to 20 foot high, then I'd look to get some outriggers for safety.

tommy21

Fingers McGee wrote: »

If its going to 20 foot high, then I'd look to get some outriggers for safety.

If I don't know what outriggers are (without googling), should I be up there at all?!:o

tommy21

First quote back - to prepare five timber (sash) windows, remove loose paint and putty, reputty, prime, 2 undercoats and a hard gloss - €1600 (including VAT) - no idea if this is good value or not, best wait and see what the other two quotes are...

massy086

can you post some pics of your windows inside and out to gauge condition

tommy21

I'd really appreciate that Massy - I will take them tomorrow weather permitting, just started lashing here in Cork and light is fading.

Buford T Justice

tommy21 wrote: »

If I don't know what outriggers are (without googling), should I be up there at all?!:o

Outriggers are additional props that clamp on to the tower at an angle to the ground to prevent the tower from falling over.

tommy21

Ok here are some photos that might make it easier to see if I am getting a good price or not - sort of discounted doing it myself now due to time issues, difficulty of access and uncertainty over whether I would be insured if I fell off. Please refrain from commenting on the embarrasing state of the paint of general house, simply can't afford to get it done at moment
Quote 1 is as above.

Second guy got back to me with following:

"I have broken down quote into two parts

scrape down / remove loose paint / light sanding
Apply new putty
prime with Aluminium Wood Primer
Undercoat
Top Coat
€110 per window including 13.5% VAT. Excluding paints.

The time to remove old putty cant be properly estimated working from a ladder.
I can give you an hourly rate of €23 including VAT."

He is a guy out on his own but is insured etc. but maybe a little unprofesisonal not to send it in a written/pdf format? So no exact idea what he would cost - 5 windows so at least €550, plus paint etc. I suppose what 150-200 on my end? Removing old putty should not take that long I wager, but its about unsettling to have an open ended price, where as the first guys at least sent me a full written breakdown on company headed paper. Third guy should come next week to quote. Based on these, do you think it is worth looking into how much it would be to replace all 5 windows to newer ones? Probably a fortune? We'd prefer to keep these old ones if they could be done up, even though I know there is probably only another 7-10 years in them. The sash(ropes?) have gone on most of them so we are not concerned about them having to be opened/done from inside (we have ventilation from a few working ones) - god it must sound like I live in the money pit!

















A look from inside out

A look from inside out





My fixing up of 2 lower windows -





How a window (Along with 5/6 others) we replaced 7-8 years ago with the bog standard type, still going strong:

tommy21

By the way to show-off I have also included the two ground floor windows I am finishing in the pictures above, just top coat to go on - if only I could reach the 1st floor safely, not looking for perfection just to make them more presentable and not fall out and crush me when I'm outside some day

Any thoughts/suggestions appreciated - what would you pay to get these done?

edit: forgot to mention we have shutters behind them closed to keep out draughts etc, we don' actually live in a fortress

massy086

i honestly would take them in they look in ok nick really so much easyer thats defo how i would do them what do you think your max budget will be

tommy21

massy086 wrote: »

i honestly would take them in they look in ok nick really so much easyer thats defo how i would do them what do you think your max budget will be

Hi massy - could you send me some links on how to do what you mean - would be happier having someone else doing it though (obviously!) as time constraints means it is difficult to find the time. No budget as such, though not going to say I'll go with cheapest, as I've done that before and gotten egg on my face. Being honest the first company who came were professional and friendly, the second guy I just got a gut feeling he was a bit off or something. Will wait and see what third guy says.

massy086

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Bm0Pu0DUc&feature=related
i have to go back to work now sorry funnily enough im off to take in a 5th floor sash to fix a broken window ill be on later hope the video helps

tommy21

massy086 wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Bm0Pu0DUc&feature=related
i have to go back to work now sorry funnily enough im off to take in a 5th floor sash to fix a broken window ill be on later hope the video helps

Great video but too complicated and time-consuming for me - certainly how to do it right though. You are officially invited to tender for the job though

dathi

hi tommy have seen windows in worse condition you can fix and paint them by taking the sashes into the room. to do this you use a hammer and chisel to remove the staff beading, this is the half round bead next to the sash, when that is removed the bottom sash will slide into the room. if you want to remove the cords clamp a vise grips onto the cord up at the pully and use a blunt chisel and hammer to remove the cord from the sash. if you want to put new cord on them there is a small opening behind the shutters, this will give you access to the weights. to get the top sash out you have to remove the parting bead this is the half round bead between the sashes use a stanly knife to score the paint and then a hammer and chisel to remove it. now the top sash will slide into the room. and you can clean them down and paint them. if you go to the trouble of doing this you might consider replacing the parting and staff bead with new ones that have brush pile draught excluders on them .PM me if you want name of company that sells them.

JuliusCaesar

Can I just say I've seen this done where I used to live and it isn't particularly difficult. Remove the beading, bring the windows in, paint them, replace them, beading back in. Done! (and I'm usually posting gormless questions here!)

massy086

i agree and the good thing is you could tackle a window every week tak in scrap outside paint then inside sand paint let dry refit

tommy21

Guys I really appreciate all the info around taking them in, but this is something that I cannot do or contemplate at the moment, but I appreciate the info around it. Will post the next guy's quote when I get it and hopefully will be able to find a happy medium. At that stage would love an honest opinion on whether you think that to have someone do it for me e.g. painting it externally if it is a good price. Fair dues to ye all though for highlighting the different options.

tommy21

Just to update ye on my saga : The third guy came and looked, seemed like a nice guy but never came back to me Nice to be able to turn down business.

I had a 4th guy up today - his quote is €470 to do the same as the €1500 guy, only difference being it would be one undercoat as opposed to two. I've decided not to go with the guy out on his own so its between these two. Both prices include all materials etc. Both are registered Cork companies - seems like such a massive difference! Even if I ask him to do a second undercoat it won't be anywhere near the first one. Too good to be true?

massy086

when you say 5 windows do u mean 5 full Sashs with two windows top and bottom in a sash so in all 10 windows not liking the lower price seems way to cheap and to be honest if this is not done right you will be doing it again in a year

jj build

Donohue scaffolding in lucan where one of the cheapest to hire. they will delver and/or erect if you want , or even better look in the buy and sell, theirs good deals on them there. if you buy second hand examine it well for any damage.Its good practice to tiy the tower to the wall even around the window stile if strong enough.

tommy21

massy086 wrote: »

when you say 5 windows do u mean 5 full Sashs with two windows top and bottom in a sash so in all 10 windows not liking the lower price seems way to cheap and to be honest if this is not done right you will be doing it again in a year

Exactly, but outside only... Grrr how do I decide!?:p

I definitely think I should be saying to do 2 undercoats? (that was the difference between them, cheaper guy would do one under, one gloss, more expensive 2 under, one gloss). Thing is I know the company is decent as it is used by a local university exclusively.