Protest on Wednesday 3/11

PurpleFistMixer

So what's up with this? What exactly does "Education not Emigration" mean? Is this a message to the students or to the government? Is the government emigrating? What does a registration fee increase have to do with that? What is actually being protested?

Now, I'm all for protesting the government and I strongly support the idea of free education and public services, etc., but I'm not so happy to protest when I have little idea of what the actual issue is. The SU had some leaflets going around, but where are they getting their information?

Is this just to tell the government that we disagree with cuts in education spending or something?

snappieT

I'd be confident to say the purpose is to increase the SU's profile as being rebellious, and absolutely nothing else.

Tragedy

I'm looking forward to a lovely quiet college campus for a few hours

Larianne

Tragedy wrote: »

I'm looking forward to a lovely quiet college campus for a few hours

Old fart!

bythewoods

Crowds of students drinking cans, shouting ridiculous slogans and waving lewd banners.
Yeah. That's defo going to make the government take us seriously...

Tragedy

Larianne wrote: »

Old fart!

Takes one to know one

amacachi

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

So what's up with this? What exactly does "Education not Emigration" mean?

I think it means that if someone can't afford to go to college they'll emigrate instead. Which makes sense, because you've a far better chance of getting a job abroad with no skills having left behind your family and friends network.
Or possibly it's about people emigrating once they've graduated, in which case I have no idea why they two words are being linked except that they kind of rhyme so it's dead clever.

spoonbadger

If enough people turn up it, we can make a difference. Hasta la victoria siempre.

amacachi

spoonbadger wrote: »

If enough people turn up it, we can make a difference. Hasta la victoria siempre.

Howso? It's protesting against the registration fee going to €3k, it's already been all but confirmed that it'll be €2.5k, so they may as well call off the protest.
I wouldn't want to start giving any union tips because I hate them but what kinds of clowns were they to use the €3k figure?

PurpleFistMixer

amacachi wrote: »

Or possibly it's about people emigrating once they've graduated, in which case I have no idea why they two words are being linked except that they kind of rhyme so it's dead clever.

Yeah, that was what I was reading into it (knowing many people who are planning on emigrating after graduation), which is why I was so massively confused.


Another question: are there going to be cuts in government spending on 3rd level, and that's why the registration fee is going up, or is it just the fee going up for no reason? Also, what's this about grants being cut?

rjt

It kind of bothers me that the only thing the SU seems to do is protest. It's like they think Batt O'Keefe is personally withholding jobs from graduates. Ok, maybe he failed as minister to support and develop new enterprises (or whatever it is he's supposed to be doing), but a march doesn't really to anything to address that. It's not a hidden problem that needs media attention brought to it (which is where this sort of march is useful). We all know things are bad.

I know nothing about economics/politics/law/life but surely there's something more productive that they could be doing. Trying to organise work placement programmes, getting CS and BESS students talking to each other and to banks to set up new businesses (though this is probably a terrible idea). Or campaigning realistically for laws and funding that can support graduates. If there's no money there's no money, a 2500 reg fee might be necessary (not saying it is, but debate it, don't just march).

amacachi

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

Another question: are there going to be cuts in government spending on 3rd level, and that's why the registration fee is going up, or is it just the fee going up for no reason? Also, what's this about grants being cut?

There most likely will be cuts in government funding over the next while. So we'll end up with that wondrous situation which can only happen when a state involves itself in anything, token cuts in pay and loss of useful staff instead of the chaff being cut. The total funding will most likely stay around the same but when a company depends on the state for funding they'll make sure they spend it all, no matter how uselessly so that they can get it again next year.

There's talk of grants being cut 10% and the thresholds for them increased by 10%. Nothing will be confirmed for a while yet, it has something to do with the state running a massive deficit.

boblong

I hate student politics.

I think I have labs being canceled tomorrow because of the protest. The sum total of the SU's impact on me is reducing my learning hours. Cheers.

Tragedy

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

Another question: are there going to be cuts in government spending on 3rd level, and that's why the registration fee is going up, or is it just the fee going up for no reason? Also, what's this about grants being cut?

The last increase in the registration fee was matched with a decrease in how much the Government gave colleges for each student(i.e. colleges can charge €600 more, but the Government gives them €600 less).

AndrewJD

Maybe I've misunderstood, but could TCD elect to not charge an increased registration fee? As a business, it would be mad not to, but in that case the college could be inclined to set up a means tested system so that those who literally cannot pay the increased fee pay the old one.

Ignoring that, my point really is that the college isn't literally forced to charge €3000 if it doesn't want to?

REPSOC1916

AndrewJD wrote: »

Maybe I've misunderstood, but could TCD elect to not charge an increased registration fee? As a business, it would be mad not to, but in that case the college could be inclined to set up a means tested system so that those who literally cannot pay the increased fee pay the old one.

Ignoring that, my point really is that the college isn't literally forced to charge €3000 if it doesn't want to?

The 3k it's now charging won't be going for improved college services. More than likely it'll be going to the Anglo Irish and AIB bondholders or used to service our debt.

Also the Trinity Access Program is going to be axed. That will have severe repercussions on students from lower income families as well as the disabled.

I'm not protesting though. It won't do anything and I'm trying to catch up in Pharmacology. The only thing I'd protest would be for a general election to get rid of Zanu-FF.

Tragedy

AndrewJD wrote: »

Maybe I've misunderstood, but could TCD elect to not charge an increased registration fee? As a business, it would be mad not to, but in that case the college could be inclined to set up a means tested system so that those who literally cannot pay the increased fee pay the old one.

Ignoring that, my point really is that the college isn't literally forced to charge €3000 if it doesn't want to?

They could elect to not charge the higher fee.

However, as the Government would be cutting how much they receive per student by a concurrent amount - they would be left with an even higher deficit per student.

Hence my position on the TCDSU concentrating purely on lobbying/protesting against TCD to try make it more efficient/better/cheaper per student.

rjt

REPSOC1916 wrote: »

Also the Trinity Access Program is going to be axed. That will have severe repercussions on students from lower income families as well as the disabled.

Do you have a link confirming that?

REPSOC1916

rjt wrote: »

Do you have a link confirming that?

I was told by a friend in the DoE that the government are looking to axe it. I'm going to try and get this confirmed by somebody else as well but you just need to look what they've done to it up to now since the start of the cutbacks. They've cut funding to it significantly and mature students on the programme aren't even able to get maintenance grants for it now.

amacachi

Who or what exactly does the TAP provide for anyway?

devinejay

I think the point of the protest is to scare the government with our voting power that they (and we) tend to forget about.

Look what happened last time around, the Greens pandered to the student vote, held up their promise to leave things exactly the way they are, didn't make anything better, now it's about to get worse. Yay politics.

Edit; TAP provides for students from disadvantaged backgrounds who even with full governmental grant support, wouldn't be able to go to college, or perhaps would never have considered going to college. I'm not fully aware of the ins and outs of it all, but I think that's the gist.

amacachi

devinejay wrote: »

Edit; TAP provides for students from disadvantaged backgrounds who even with full governmental grant support, wouldn't be able to go to college, or perhaps would never have considered going to college. I'm not fully aware of the ins and outs of it all, but I think that's the gist.

Yeah it's kinda the ins and outs I'm looking for, I want to know exactly how much they help how many students.

Meeja Ireland

It's hard to decide which is more depressing. The stupidity of the protest, or the certainty that half the placards will say "Careful now" and "Down with this sort of thing". Bad enough parroting a fifteen-year-old joke, but a fifteen year-old joke that we've all seen a thousand times.

Ah, sweet despair.

bythewoods

The self entitlement of so many students today was vomit-inducing.

I opted out of the protest and went to my lecture instead... there were actually quite a few of us there, maybe 60/150 or there abouts. I did have to battle my way through the crowd at one point to get home from college to my apartment.

"Pay my fees or pay my dole!"
Eh... really? Are you just entitled to free money despite having never contributed anything?

"We deserve an eduction"
Again, really? You can't even spell education, love.

"Do I look like I have money for fees!?"
Well, yes actually. You're dangling a Chanel bag off your shoulder, and those jeans certainly don't look cheap...

"I'm a vote too"
That's nice. Have you ever bothered to use your vote? Are you even registered?
I saw people holding these signs who I KNOW aren't registered to vote. Get away.

And so on and so forth...

amacachi

bythewoods wrote: »

"Pay my fees or pay my dole!"
Eh... really? Are you just entitled to free money despite having never contributed anything?

Yep, but only if your parents are broke too. I love this country sometimes. :pac:

amacachi

RTE saying a few of the students got slaps. ^_^

PurpleFistMixer

bythewoods wrote: »

"We deserve an eduction"
Again, really? You can't even spell education, love.

Is your point really actually genuinely that people who can't spell don't deserve an education? Is that what you are actually trying to imply? If not, what exactly were you thinking when you wrote this?

bythewoods

amacachi wrote: »

RTE saying a few of the students got slaps. ^_^

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1103/education.html

Violence has broken out between gardaí and students in Merrion Row after gardaí in riot gear forcibly ejected students who had occupied the lobby of the Department of Finance in Dublin city centre.

Violent scenes are continuing between a large number of gardaí and students.
Some students have bloody noses and one student has been carried away, possibly unconscious.

Some students have expressed deep upset at the outbreak of violence.

Mounted gardaí and armoured vehicles are also at the scene.

Earlier, a number of protestors occupied the Department of Finance and several hundred students staged a sit-down protest outside the building.
The unrest follows a student protest in Dublin city centre against plans to increase registration fees by third level students has ended.

Thousands of students earlier marched to Merrion Square, where they were addressed by student leaders, among them Union of Students in Ireland President Gary Redmond.

The march was organised by the USI, which has said any attempt to impose cuts on students will meet with strong opposition.
It said earlier it expected up to 25,000 students to attend.

USI says thousands of students will be forced to drop-out of college if the registration fee rises again.
The latest speculation is that the charge will rise from its current level of €1,500 to €2,500.

I'M SO SHOCKED IT ENDED LIKE THIS...

(I live beside the protest the amount of sirens outside at the mo is a bit mad...)

p1akuw47h5r3it

Does anyone know were the USI got the money for all the free t-shirts?

amacachi

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Does anyone know were the USI got the money for all the free t-shirts?

I asked that before, no answer forthcoming.

Jonathan

Your e8 levy if you chose to pay it I'd imagine.

Denerick

Fúcking students. The idiocy of it all never ceases to amaze me. Attempt to storm the department of finance and the least you should expect is a fúcking bloody nose. Those twits would have been better off spending those couple of hours in the library reading Burke and Locke. Twáts.

g'em

amacachi wrote: »

Yeah it's kinda the ins and outs I'm looking for, I want to know exactly how much they help how many students.

50 students each year, 25 mature students and 25 young adults. Virtually all go on to third level education and the retention level is high up to graduation. This year the students are almost completely self-funded, the maintenance grant has been all but abolished. It's particularly tough for mature students, some of whom might be leaving full-time (but generally low-income) jobs to be entering full-time education and I have nothing but respect for them for doing so. They also tend to be extremely hard working and some of the best students to teach.

There's also the TAP HEAR program in secondary schools and the TAP Primary Schools program.

amacachi

g'em wrote: »

50 students each year, 25 mature students and 25 young adults. Virtually all go on to third level education and the retention level is high up to graduation. This year the students are almost completely self-funded, the maintenance grant has been all but abolished. It's particularly tough for mature students, some of whom might be leaving full-time (but generally low-income) jobs to be entering full-time education and I have nothing but respect for them for doing so. They also tend to be extremely hard working and some of the best students to teach.

There's also the TAP HEAR program in secondary schools and the TAP Primary Schools program.

So it's mainly over 23s? Is this on top of the HEAR thing or is TCD not a part of that? Also do any of them get the BTEA on top of the funding for TAP. Up until this year when they could get both the BTEA and the maintenance grant did it just apply to those leaving employment?

g'em

Young adults are <23 so it's half and half, separate to HEAR but afaik they're the main feeder schools for the program. Id have to look into the other q's for answers unfortunately

amacachi

g'em wrote: »

Young adults are <23 so it's half and half, separate to HEAR but afaik they're the main feeder schools for the program. Id have to look into the other q's for answers unfortunately

No problem, just sounds to me like it's a bit of an extra layer of bureaucracy for not much reason, since <23s can still get the grant. Also I'm a bit bitter in general about the whole thing because I didn't get in with HEAR because my school was recently removed from it for no reason I could see. :pac:

tolosenc

Why is nobody asking "did we have things too cushy for a while?" rather than "things are ok, why are you trying to make it worse?"

boblong

Meeja Ireland wrote: »

It's hard to decide which is more depressing. The stupidity of the protest, or the certainty that half the placards will say "Careful now" and "Down with this sort of thing". Bad enough parroting a fifteen-year-old joke, but a fifteen year-old joke that we've all seen a thousand times.

Ah, sweet despair.

Nailed it.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/images/2010/1103/263798_1.jpg?ts=1288814382

Fad

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Does anyone know were the USI got the money for all the free t-shirts?

They weren't free.

You had to pay for them in most colleges, that tshirt was also your bus fare to the march.

I neither paid for a tshirt (like fúck will I pay for something with a USI logo on it....afaik Belfield Tech has no opt out possibility, so I resent having to pay the 5 quid affliation fee)

Cant check the USI website because it wont load for me, they removed the 150 lines of viagra spam from the source of the website though

bythewoods

Well, the SU in Trinity were handing the t-shirts out for free, as well as wristbands and banners. And posters. And face paint?

Money well spent.

amacachi

bythewoods wrote: »

Well, the SU in Trinity were handing the t-shirts out for free, as well as wristbands and banners. And posters. And face paint?

Money well spent.

Was it neon? Wouldn't mind some of that meself.

Fad

bythewoods wrote: »

Well, the SU in Trinity were handing the t-shirts out for free, as well as wristbands and banners. And posters. And face paint?

Money well spent.

Then TCDSU paid for it themselves, I suppose their cost was a little lower owing to the fact you lot already are in the slums of the city centre......

sron

Denerick wrote: »

Fúcking students. The idiocy of it all never ceases to amaze me. Attempt to storm the department of finance and the least you should expect is a fúcking bloody nose. Those twits would have been better off spending those couple of hours in the library reading Burke and Locke. Twáts.

I believe the SWP were responsible for that, and they're hardly the type to read the above authors.

PurpleFistMixer

I'd rather the SU spend money on free tshirts at a protest than a pissup in a hotel...

Also, to all the haters: at least some people are trying to do something about the state of the country.

amacachi

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

I'd rather the SU spend money on free tshirts at a protest than a pissup in a hotel...

Also, to all the haters: at least some people are trying to do something about the state of the country.

Aye, I hope they're successful in preventing any reining in of government spending, at least then the decision to emigrate will be done for me.

boblong

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

I'd rather the SU spend money on free tshirts at a protest than a pissup in a hotel...

Also, to all the haters: at least some people are trying to do something about the state of the country.

I think you'll have a tough time convincing people that attending that protest will do more good in the long run than attending lectures and working hard while the protest was going on. (Is that even correct grammar? I'm very tired.)

sron

boblong wrote: »

I think you'll have a tough time convincing people that attending that protest will do more good in the long run than attending lectures and working hard while the protest was going on. (Is that even correct grammar? I'm very tired.)

Pressurising a government whose perilous existence depends on a passive acceptance of their demands is certainly a useful exercise, especially when the government is as irredeemably egregious as this FF/Glasraí concoction. There's a time to read and a time to march...

PurpleFistMixer

boblong wrote: »

I think you'll have a tough time convincing people that attending that protest will do more good in the long run than attending lectures and working hard while the protest was going on. (Is that even correct grammar? I'm very tired.)

Are you so stuck for time that you can't spare 2 hours of study time in an entire year? (Though if I recall, the last big student protest was almost 2 years ago...)

boblong

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

Are you so stuck for time that you can't spare 2 hours of study time in an entire year? (Though if I recall, the last big student protest was almost 2 years ago...)

?

That first sentance would make sense if I said: "Lectures are too important to miss", or "I think that my time is too precious for protesting". But that's not what I said at all.

aas

boblong wrote: »

?

That first sentance would make sense if I said: "Lectures are too important to miss", or "I think that my time is too precious for protesting". But that's not what I said at all.

Well, you're still wrong.

boblong

aas wrote: »

Well, you're still wrong.

I'm sorry please read my post again, I said that you would have trouble convincing people of your argument. I never even said which I thought was more important.