strength exercises?

sonic85

hey all

was just wondering whats the best way of strengthening my arms/shoulders and legs? are there any exercises or something i could do? any suggestions appreciated!

Frogdog

Squat, deadlift, shoulder press, bench press, back row, pull-ups, chin-ups, push-ups and dips.

sonic85

thanks man - ill have to google some of that dont recognise a few of those terms! the most ive ever done are some push ups!

wersal gummage

given that the OP got an answer - I have a similar query, might as well throw it in here instead of a new thread?

I understand that squats, deadlift and rows are key exercises, working compound muscles and build up a general core strength through the legs and back.

However, if I dont want to do exercises that put a lot of pressure on the lower back, I can 'replace'* squats with squat press ??? say the low row - if i instead do things like back exercises (upper back machine and basically like chest flys and press except the other way around with my front on a raised bench - sorry dont know the proper name). Am I wasting my time here ??? For deadlift is there any alternative exercise that would work similar muscle groups but in a way that would not put so much pressure on the back ??? i guess not because the dead lift is largely aimed at the lower back ??

Thanks very much:)

*i know these things cant really be replaced - i just mean as a next best alternative

Brian?

Why do you want to avoid loading the lower back?

wersal gummage

briankeating wrote: »

Why do you want to avoid loading the lower back?

previous, unrelated to exercise, injury. I'm not looking for medical advice ! I have medical advice and for what its worth i was encouraged to go back to weights, just to try and keep the back in an upright or supported position. So I'm looking for advice on the different options to work large muscle groups - not medical advice before i get given out to ! For example, squats are known to be hard on the lower back so i avoid them - but i use the squat press machine and currently lift 200kgs. I avoid the low row machine but use upper back machine and do a good bit of upper back free weights. I'm just wondering, for something like a dead lift - apart from the lower back - what other other big muscles are being worked there and what alternative exercise could i do ???

Brian?

wersal gummage wrote: »

previous, unrelated to exercise, injury. I'm not looking for medical advice ! I have medical advice and for what its worth i was encouraged to go back to weights, just to try and keep the back in an upright or supported position. So I'm looking for advice on the different options to work large muscle groups - not medical advice before i get given out to ! For example, squats are known to be hard on the lower back so i avoid them - but i use the squat press machine and currently lift 200kgs. I avoid the low row machine but use upper back machine and do a good bit of upper back free weights. I'm just wondering, for something like a dead lift - apart from the lower back - what other other big muscles are being worked there and what alternative exercise could i do ???

Did your doctor/physio tell you to avoid deadlifting?

Its a brilliant lower back excercise.

wersal gummage

briankeating wrote: »

Did your doctor/physio tell you to avoid deadlifting?

Its a brilliant lower back excercise.

yes. basically to avoid anything where i move my back while lifting weights (hence squats, rows, deadlift etc all out). I do understand that these are like the main part of lifting weights though so thats why i'm anxious to find a work around!! i'm doing a fairly serious programme at the moment and diet to match and getting good results thus far - but just dont want to spent all my time at the smaller muscle groups if its a waste of time without looking after the bigger compound stuff.... (i do, as far as i'm aware, a full proper work out on chest, triceps, shoulders, legs (except squats), biceps, its just the back that isn't getting the proper treatment - and even at that i do upper back machine, lat pull down, vertical traction, lat raises, pull ups, the backward fly and press things (what are they called by the way?).

Transform

basic answer - get a trainer to look at your program in full, your current range of motion in all areas, a mobility assessment etc everything else is guess work because there is no point in making any recommendation for say deadlifts if you cant deadlift with good form right now.

From what i see on a daily basis is not that a person cant squat or deadlift its just that they dont do it with good form (loss of lumbar curve, knees falling inwards, weight in the toes etc) which is primarily linked with poor flexibility, weak support muscles, poor core stabilisation etc

Two other points - a 200kg leg press is going to put more pressure on your back as compared to a body weight squat, lunge, split squat etc plus you are squatting every time you sit on the loo.

Biceps and triceps exercises are NOT compound movements

You say you dont want to spend time working on the small muscle groups yet it is the small muscle groups that could help you get back to some form of squatting, lunging, deadlifts etc With injuries/problem areas you must isolate BEFORE you integrate.

wersal gummage

Transform wrote: »

basic answer - get a trainer to look at your program in full, your current range of motion in all areas, a mobility assessment etc everything else is guess work

firstly - thanks very much for your reply. appreciate it.

i had a range of motion flexibility etc tested by my physio only a few weeks ago as it happens - she said i have excellent flexibility - far better than average and she would never know i had a back issue if she wasn't aware of my history.

Transform wrote: »

because there is no point in making any recommendation for say deadlifts if you cant deadlift with good form right now.

the problem really isn't form/flexibility etc - it is simply that i have been advised not to do something like a deadlift under any circumstances! - i dont want to get into medical issues - and i'm not looking for medical advice - but basically i've had a minor enough back operation but it means i'm far more prone to back issues than a 'normal' person - anything like deadlifts on my part would be stupidity. so i'm not looking to ignore my medical advice - i'm simly asking if there is any range of exercises that i could do that would give me some of the benefits that a deadlift would????

Transform wrote: »

Two other points - a 200kg leg press is going to put more pressure on your back as compared to a body weight squat, lunge, split squat etc plus you are squatting every time you sit on the loo.

thanks for the heads up there re the squat press. i suck my stomach in for support, hold my back steady against the bench of the machine while doing it and feel like i have the weight under full control - you still think this is putting a lot of pressure on the lower back area ???

secondly - i actually do body weight squats and abduction type exercises every morning - i also squat once a week with just the bar and do abduction work once a week in the gym - but this is just to build up a small core strength.

Transform wrote: »

You say you dont want to spend time working on the small muscle groups yet it is the small muscle groups that could help you get back to some form of squatting, lunging, deadlifts etc With injuries/problem areas you must isolate BEFORE you integrate.

dont get me wrong - i love working on the small muscle groups. i was just asking if this should be lower down the priority for me if there are some alternatives i should be focusing on (i see a lot of mention in threads here to squats, deadlifts and rows being the main thing to do....).

could you explain what you mean a bit about isolate before you integrate ?? i need to pick out the problem area and build up some strength there before i do an exercise that involves a few areas - including the problem area ?????

thank again for the reply. very helpful.

finally - just chancing my arm here and trying to get 2 for the price of 1 ! i actually looked through the sticky threads the other day and watched your videos about diet. your diet is very similar to my own actually. just two things i was wondering - 1) you say not to cook with olive oil - would this apply to extra virgin olive oil ?? i eat a lot of omlettes cooked in this stuff.. what did you recommend , coconut oil or butter ??? and 2) you mentioned you have a protein shake after a workout. so do i. however, i also have one first thing in the morning with breakfast, again at 11 (with ground oats as well for carbs), usually again at about 5 - again with the ground oats, again after training - again with the oats, and then protein only shake with milk right before bed... this is on top of a good healthy diet. is there a limit to how much protein should be consumed via shakes ?? (like i'd still be eating at least 4 chicken fillets a day and a lot of fish or eggs - loads of healthy carbs too). i just find the two meal times @ 11 and 5 dont suit me to have a 'proper' meal so i have a liquid meal so to speak.

thanks man - no worries if you dont have time to answer that i've typed a lot more than i planned to when i started:(

Transform

making my paleo bars at moment so need to keep this brief -

1. Its really hard to say whats going to work for you and whats not going to work without seeing you in person so i would recommend you start with lunges, split squats, step ups etc and progress on with the weight you use for them

2. Re isolate to integrate - that really refers to you needing to identify what movement pattern is breaking down when doing certain movements e.g. squat (even a body weight squat) so you can perform the squat or heck to be able to pick shopping up without injuring your back!! To do this you need to get a trainer to help you with your current program and build it up slowly. If you have good flexibility that is just one part of the solution and is NO indicator that everything is fine as this can all break down when doing simple movements if e.g. squatting, you are not firing your glutes, core is not staying engaged to help you maintain a strong lumbar curve etc. Overall your focus should be to get bull like strong while preventing possible injury.

3. Use butter or coconut oil and NEVER cook with extra virgin oil as it totally destroys it

4. You can correct me if i am wrong but I NEVER said take a shake after a workout. I most likely said that they are handy after workouts but NOT essential and no better than taking real food. 4-5 shakes a day is excessive IMO unless you are a 230lb+ powerlifter/bodybuilder. Aim to get in more real foods. Liquid ones are fine but maybe make some up in a blender and bring with you.

or make some paleo bars as i am off to do.

All the best

wersal gummage

thanks a lot for that.

sorry if i misquoted you on the protein shakes - what i meant to say was that you said that you yourself take a shake after a workout - and i was saying yeah i do this too - but also a few others.

yes, becoming as strong as a bull without injuring myself would be ideal

Transform

no worries and just because i take a shake after a workout has no major bearing on the excellent fitness, strength and overall shape i am in - consistent diet, training more often and harder than many people with progressive resistances and finally working on where i have weaknesses make the bggest difference.

You sound like you are doing ok.

What are your current lifts like and your height and weight?

wersal gummage

i have no illusions that there's some magic shake !! i just find that i'm trying to build a bit of muscle at the moment and the shake right after training helps the recovery. i would describe my diet as excellent. no alcohol, bread or any rubbish whatsoever in over two months now.

as for current :

i'm six foot three, 87kg. i'm only back training 8 weeks after a two year lay up with no exercise at all. when i started back i was 86kgs and 34" waist trousers/jeans were tight on me. i'm now same weight, marginally heavier actually, but closer to a 32" waist and starting to see definition in the stomach muscles. unfortunatley didn't think to take bodyfat measurements when i started back

i spent first 6 weeks doing total body split over 2 days with 3x10 on everything. did that twice a week.


last two weeks i've broken down into four days (chest&triceps, shoulders, leg&lower back, upper back and biceps) and often train the five days so start around again. currently doing 5x5 on major exercise followed by 4x8 on everything else. so for example - shoulders would be DB press - 5x5, then 4x8 with side raises, front raises, cable crosses, shrugs DB, upright row, rear shrugs with the bar and i finish off with more shoulder press with a ligth weight while sitting on a gym ball. except legs day - i just do 4x8 on everything as i dont lift anything near max due to the back issue i mentioned.

so after 2 weeks of that i'm lifting: DB chest press(5x5) - 27.5s, shoulder press(5x5) DB - 20s. squat press(4x8) 200kgs. i could go heavier on the squat press but dont feel comfortable doing so.

i also cycle 2x30 mins (hard) to and from work 5 days a week plus 100kms on sat or sun if the weather is half decent @ 30kmph avg speed.

i noticed crossfitt in your videos - are you linked to them ?? had a google and seems i would need to go out and pay for classes etc ?? have no interest in that but wouldn't mind paying for a one on one lesson/training situation for some pointers and maybe followed up with something similar every few weeks. i like training on my own and wouldn't like a class etc or a trainer following me around the gym every day.

alphabeat

im 85 kg , 5 11 44 yo

i started back to weights after 10 years layoff, two months ago
( used to body build then, drug free, so maybe some muscle memory is helping )

doing this :

Squat, deadlift, shoulder press, bench press, back row, pull-ups, chin-ups, push-ups and dips.

i do squats one day then dead lifts another day with 5 days between sessions , i do each exercise in a manner that makes me nearly puke.

no machines , just bar bell .

i do shoulder press, bench press, rows on a day between the others

and every session is finished with pull ups and chin ups and dips
with some bicep curls

so far ive grown like mad , i am eating all round me , and im nearly a vegan - no meat whatsoever
i do use whey protein as well, but thats it.

in about 9 weeks ive gone from sets of 8 rep s
30 kg squats to 70 kg ( all the way down )
50 kg dead lift to 110 kg
30 kg bench to 62 kg
shoulder 20 kg to 40 kg


its the best thing i decided to do in years .
only problem is you have to train pretty viciously in each session
so you are pretty bollixed at the end .

pay off is worth it though .

Transform

wersal gummage wrote: »

i have no illusions that there's some magic shake !! i just find that i'm trying to build a bit of muscle at the moment and the shake right after training helps the recovery. i would describe my diet as excellent. no alcohol, bread or any rubbish whatsoever in over two months now.

as for current :

i'm six foot three, 87kg. i'm only back training 8 weeks after a two year lay up with no exercise at all. when i started back i was 86kgs and 34" waist trousers/jeans were tight on me. i'm now same weight, marginally heavier actually, but closer to a 32" waist and starting to see definition in the stomach muscles. unfortunatley didn't think to take bodyfat measurements when i started back

i spent first 6 weeks doing total body split over 2 days with 3x10 on everything. did that twice a week.


last two weeks i've broken down into four days (chest&triceps, shoulders, leg&lower back, upper back and biceps) and often train the five days so start around again. currently doing 5x5 on major exercise followed by 4x8 on everything else. so for example - shoulders would be DB press - 5x5, then 4x8 with side raises, front raises, cable crosses, shrugs DB, upright row, rear shrugs with the bar and i finish off with more shoulder press with a ligth weight while sitting on a gym ball. except legs day - i just do 4x8 on everything as i dont lift anything near max due to the back issue i mentioned.

so after 2 weeks of that i'm lifting: DB chest press(5x5) - 27.5s, shoulder press(5x5) DB - 20s. squat press(4x8) 200kgs. i could go heavier on the squat press but dont feel comfortable doing so.

i also cycle 2x30 mins (hard) to and from work 5 days a week plus 100kms on sat or sun if the weather is half decent @ 30kmph avg speed.

i noticed crossfitt in your videos - are you linked to them ?? had a google and seems i would need to go out and pay for classes etc ?? have no interest in that but wouldn't mind paying for a one on one lesson/training situation for some pointers and maybe followed up with something similar every few weeks. i like training on my own and wouldn't like a class etc or a trainer following me around the gym every day.

yes i work as a personal trainer from www.crossfit.ie

Not a massive fan of the way you have structured your program as its all bodybuilding style but if you like it and are getting results then go for it.

wersal gummage

Transform wrote: »

Not a massive fan of the way you have structured your program as its all bodybuilding style but if you like it and are getting results then go for it.

what sort of alternatives should i be looking at for putting on a bit of weight ? what is wrong with body building type work ?? i tend to mix up my programme every six weeks or so anyway so would be happy to give something different a shot. even the name of different types of training i could do - i will go look up the details on google.

i previously trained for years. i always did 6 weeks of strength type work - as i outlined above - rotated with 6 weeks of high rep work, usually 3x15-20 on everything. swap every 6 weeks. this was on the advice of a trainer i had and i found it pretty good - but open to give something else a go.