1210's on the chopping block as production is to end

Run_to_da_hills

Found this hard to believe as these are the club standard and backbone of vinyl since 1972. There is no deck to match them and many pro's will not compromise with the rubbish that is currently availible on the market.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/8097274/Panasonic-to-cease-production-of-Technics-turntables.html

BaZmO*

Ah the weekly "Technics being discontinued" thread.

What is the definitive answer on this? Keep getting mixed answers on this.

es-cee

just the anual halloween scare me thinkz, been hearin this for i don't know how long at this stage, bout 2 1/2 years maybe and yet they still ain't finished. i'll be surprised if they finish them in the next 5 years tbh let alone when this report sujests.

Stab*City

If demand falls which it has its a simple case of business then.. if it aint profitable anymore they will discontinue.

Paul1979

great article in guardian with mr scruff about this:

I'm a little bit sceptical about the announcement, because there have been so many suggestions previously that Technics are going to stop making turntables. It stirs up a bit of debate, people panic-buy – and then nothing happens.

Even if it is true, I don't think it's an issue, as there are so many pairs of SL-1200s around and they're very durable. If someone buys a Technics this week and looks after it well, they'll still be using it in 2035. The Technics SL-1200s are obviously a very important part of modern DJ history, but there are other turntable manufacturers, and now the turntable is only one of a range of controllers that includes CDJs and software-based DJing setups.

It's the same with the "vinyl is dead" debate, which has been going on since the late 80s, when CDs came about. Everyone said: "You can put jam on your CDs, you can put peanut butter on them," because they were supposedly so durable (although you could fit far more jam on a record!). I have a real problem with these "one format v another format" debates. It's like books v newspapers, or a plate v a cup. I quite like to use both.

Saying that, one aspect I've noticed with software-based DJing on programs like Serato and Traktor is that, because you can carry so many, you tend to play whole tunes much less. People are playing 30 seconds of a track and skipping to another one. It almost seems like people get attention deficit disorder when they're DJing. It's very old school but I'm a firm believer that, if something's good quality, I want to experience all of it – whether it's a good meal, a good film or a good piece of music. I think if a record's good, it should be listened to all the way through.

There are a lot of modern DJs and producers – people like Floating Point and Mala from DMZ – who play exclusively on vinyl. You've got a new breed of people who are vehemently pro-turntable and wouldn't be seen dead with a CD, never mind an MP3. It's a funny one: for every indicator that vinyl is on the wane, there'll be another generation of kids who are buying it again, or kids who are a bit sick of having a computer full of anonymous MP3s.

If you face facts, vinyl still sounds a lot better than CD or digital. If you listen to a lot of modern music like dubstep many times on CD – a lot of the UK funky stuff, a lot of harsh, very bottom-heavy, very percussive, very dynamic music – it sounds quite brittle and two-dimensional. You cut the same thing on to vinyl and, when you listen to it in a club, the bass has real depth to it. It's not like a flat wall of sound that's beating you down, it's almost like you can "get inside" the music a lot better.

There is something magical about vinyl. I love the way music sounds on it. Part of the reason I love it is that I don't quite know why it sounds that way. There's alchemy to the process of putting sound on vinyl that engineers still don't understand to this day, but somehow it works. I've been DJing and collecting music for about 25 years now, and it's still my favourite way of listening to music.

• Mr Scruff was speaking to Abbas Ali. Guardian 2010

jtsuited

jeepers, pretty much every thing there is exactly the way I feel bout it.

Paul1979

jtsuited wrote: »

jeepers, pretty much every thing there is exactly the way I feel bout it.

same here, especially this bit about digital djs


"Saying that, one aspect I've noticed with software-based DJing on programs like Serato and Traktor is that, because you can carry so many, you tend to play whole tunes much less. People are playing 30 seconds of a track and skipping to another one. It almost seems like people get attention deficit disorder when they're DJing. It's very old school but I'm a firm believer that, if something's good quality, I want to experience all of it – whether it's a good meal, a good film or a good piece of music. I think if a record's good, it should be listened to all the way through."

seannash

As blasphamis as it is to say technics are not the best deck out there anymore.

They are industry standard(and rightly so) but i think Vestax trounced them with there pdx 2000 deck when it came out.

Im still dying to own a pair again,just to play all my old vinyl again:o

jtsuited

Paul1979 wrote: »

If you face facts, vinyl still sounds a lot better than CD or digital. If you listen to a lot of modern music like dubstep many times on CD – a lot of the UK funky stuff, a lot of harsh, very bottom-heavy, very percussive, very dynamic music – it sounds quite brittle and two-dimensional. You cut the same thing on to vinyl and, when you listen to it in a club, the bass has real depth to it. It's not like a flat wall of sound that's beating you down, it's almost like you can "get inside" the music a lot better.

This bit cannot be overstated imo. A lot of the records I've been buying lately really sound completely bleh in a digital format. Even sh1t produced in bloody fruity loops when cut to wax sounds bloody great.

Nowadays, I rather listen to mp3's on my girlfriends laptop speakers because if I listen to them on any proper setup they sound so brittle. Actually brittle is the first word most people say when they hear an mp3 of a tune vs the vinyl of the same tune. It's like the space and body of the sound just dissappears.
The 'get inside' the music thing is another thing I thought I was semi-imagining when I first got into vinyl. But from talking to many a 'vinyl nazi' (perhaps purist or enthusiast is a more suitable description but I'm well aware of how digital dj's perceive the seemingly elitist wax addicts), it seems it's a major feature.

I thought in the beginning it was just deep house that really didn't suit the digital format, but by God I'm finding out deep house is the least of my worries.

I had the new Shed album on mp3 before I got the vinyl and the difference is just astounding. With mp3's you kind of stick em on and soon they're just background music you can choose to ignore. With vinyl the sound consumes you. The space in the record gets inside your head and it's very difficult to do anything else (especially post on forums lol).

Some say that it's the psychology of putting a record on that focuses the mind etc. etc., but I've spent years a/b-ing studio hardware vs their plugin counterparts, so I'd like to think I'm able to ignore any sort of physical bias in my perception of it.

@Sean, yeah I think I've mentioned to you before how when we were running a radio station years ago we had those Vestax turntables. I thought they were savage (and being honest far better than the 1210's we had), but I think their failure was down to two things: 1. The dots on the side of the technics make beatmatching so easy and 2. There were a few bells and whistles on the Vestax. And over time, bells and whistles fall off and break. There's very little to break on a 1200, which has doomed technics' long term survival but means that they seemingly are bombproof.

Scubadevils

I have a specific spot in my attic where when I really want to concentrate on listening to vinyl that I stand - let me stress stand as for some reason I can concentrate more on the sound :pac: Its a pretty precise position in the attic where the sound meets from the speakers and genuinely I'm in feckin vinyl sound heaven :eek:

Funny actually, given that I've been recently considering adding CDJs to my setup which are likely to cost about 1k, I'd probably be better spending that 1k on vinyl! Feckin thoughts of going online with a 1k budget for vinyl!!! :eek:

jtsuited

Scubadevils wrote: »

I have a specific spot in my attic where when I really want to concentrate on listening to vinyl that I stand - let me stress stand as for some reason I can concentrate more on the sound :pac: Its a pretty precise position in the attic where the sound meets from the speakers and genuinely I'm in feckin vinyl sound heaven :eek:

It's not called the sweet spot for nothin!

Scubadevils

jtsuited wrote: »

It's not called the sweet spot for nothin!

Ah it has a name, even better!

jtsuited

Scubadevils wrote: »

Ah it has a name, even better!

haha of course it has a name. It's sort of fundamental to listening to that new format of sound recording....stereo...is that it's name? Stereo?:p

Time to get your equilateral triangle on. That's a triangle with 3 equal angles kids. And of course by the nature of mathematics, three equal length sides.

your speakers and the middle of your head (yes the middle of your head, right in the centre of your brain) should make up the three points of this equliateral triangle. Then just angle the speakers so they are perpendicular to those lines.
Boom...your head's in the sweetspot.

Scubadevils

jtsuited wrote: »

haha of course it has a name. It's sort of fundamental to listening to that new format of sound recording....stereo...is that it's name? Stereo?:p

Time to get your equilateral triangle on. That's a triangle with 3 equal angles kids. And of course by the nature of mathematics, three equal length sides.

your speakers and the middle of your head (yes the middle of your head, right in the centre of your brain) should make up the three points of this equliateral triangle. Then just angle the speakers so they are perpendicular to those lines.
Boom...your head's in the sweetspot.

Haha I should have included a in that last reply really - I do understand the principles of stereo, sure I was wiring HIFI separates when you were still in nappies :pac: My first part-time job was in Harry Moores in Henry Street in about 1994 and my role most weekends was to go out to customers houses who had bought separates systems and wire them into the living space, find the right position for speakers etc for triangulation - i.e. the perfect listening spot or 'sweet spot'. Ever since then I've had a completely anorak obsession with sound quality.

acman

Paul1979 wrote: »

great article in guardian with mr scruff about this

• Mr Scruff was speaking to Abbas Ali. Guardian 2010

Good 'ol Mr. Scruff - what a legend and he really hit the nail on the head with that article.

was.deevey

Even back in 1995-2000's when I was selling them we'd get a letter from the distributors every so often that they would be discontined, although it certainly looks like a pretty sure thing at this stage.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=454002794535&set=a.193394014535.125364.40541914535

Although in good news if this is the truth there will be no shortage i'd imagine of legitimate Class A chinese knockoffs which would have been prevented from coming to market in the past.

Vestax surpassed technics as far as DJ vinyl turntables go in almost very way around that mid 90's era too with the PDT series .. floating tonearm Better Signal to Noise, Better isolation, Higher torque motors than technics, replaceable pitch, replaceable target lights, Hell even replaceable cables!!

Unfortunately one thing was missing from the Vestax arsenal to allow them take the crown IMHO ....DURABILITY Something completely necessary for a professional club DJ enviornment and somehow was lost with the designers (Seriously chipboard bodies guys!) .. technics turntables are built like friggin tanks - its a shame the contest will be won by them by default.

If a bar had no demand for a certain type of beer you can bet they'd stop selling it like in any market....sad to see the iconic turntable leave if this is truly the end of them though.

seannash

was.deevey wrote: »

Unfortunately one thing was missing from the Vestax arsenal to allow them take the crown IMHO ....DURABILITY Something completely necessary for a professional club DJ enviornment and somehow was lost with the designers (Seriously chipboard bodies guys!) .. technics turntables are built like friggin tanks - its a shame the contest will be won by them by default.

i gotta say i had them for years(Pdx 2000) and never had anything go wrong with them(i even had them shipped to america and they survived the trip)

They had more bells and whistles on them the technics because people were demanding more from there turntables.

Im a bit confused about the chipboard comment?can you explain

I definetly think they were better than technics but id probably opt for technics now just for the nostalgia

Stab*City

Its ok Aldi are taking up the slack

http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/offers/special_buys3_14945.htm

was.deevey

The original PDT (and first PDX series too dunno about later)had a plasticoated chipboard body which was a real plus for isolation/dampening purposes but looked nasty after a bit of abuse

Personlly I loved vestax my PDX-A2's (first ones in the country I believe!)were bloody great Bar a motor jiggle which occured in the first batches, but I got that sorted pretty fast.



But durability wise .. the coating got scuffed and few hot rock burns after a year or two of gigging out which you would not get on a Technics due to the metal body... I had em in a coffin case too which protected them pretty well too once the lid was closed.

If I were buying turntables for home/studio use i'd go Vestax anyday .. but if buying for a club or bar again where they are gonna get serious abuse i'd have to say technics anyday.... the issue with that of course is that people buying for home are gonna go with the industry standard. :rolleyes: i guss the question is are turntables simply gonna die out now for new clubs an bars completely or will vestax be up to the challange.

What amazes me is the number of people who see a vestax deck for the first after years of technics and turn their nose up with a "I cant play on those" or "i'll probably sound ****e cause I havent used them before" ..Dang its not rocket science! I can understand scratch djs on this attitude a little better though due to torque and cosmetic differences though

dubsbhoy

Just rang sounds around to buy a set of 1210s MK II


€3000

joker77

WHAT???? Does this include some f*ck off mixer?

Paul1979

dubsbhoy wrote: »

Just rang sounds around to buy a set of 1210s MK II


€3000

**** sounds around,

http://www.thomann.de/ie/technics_sl1200_mk_ii_silver.htm

dubsbhoy

Paul1979 wrote: »

**** sounds around,

http://www.thomann.de/ie/technics_sl1200_mk_ii_silver.htm

of course i'm gonna go with thomann thought it would be handy driving into town and picking them up at in and around the same price, not only were they 3k but i would have to wait a week or two for them to be orderd in for me. He said the demand for them has gone through the roof since they announced they were getting the boot and that in a few months time you want be able to buy a new set

joker77

How many times is that 'we're going to stop making them' trick work???

That's AT LEAST the 3rd time they've done it.

Paul1979

I hope sounds around go bust...robbing bastards

jtsuited

joker77 wrote: »

How many times is that 'we're going to stop making them' trick work???

I think it's bloody great and I hope they continue to pull it on a bi-annual basis. As soon as people hear it, public discourse becomes centred on it, and all the debates start raging.
Next year, if we don't have a scare, I'm gonna start one myself. I mean this one was so easy to fabricate - a Japanese press release that can be found nowhere within Panasonic's official site and the whole internet goes doolally.

jtsuited

dubsbhoy wrote: »

Just rang sounds around to buy a set of 1210s MK II


€3000

haha. you've got to admire that.... in a way.

Ddisco

Dubsbhoy,

Picked up a practically new set of 1210's two weeks ago - lids, boxes , manual's , original slips etc - bought new from thomann last year - 350 euro from a well know ad site.

Was blessed to get them at that price but they come up quite often at 450/550

Ask sounds-around was that old italian lira he was lookin for.

dubsbhoy

Ddisco wrote: »

Dubsbhoy,

Picked up a practically new set of 1210's two weeks ago - lids, boxes , manual's , original slips etc - bought new from thomann last year - 350 euro from a well know ad site.

Was blessed to get them at that price but they come up quite often at 450/550

Ask sounds-around was that old italian lira he was lookin for.

Its for the job so I can't get anything nearly new sadly.

BaZmO*

Ddisco wrote: »

Dubsbhoy,

Picked up a practically new set of 1210's two weeks ago - lids, boxes , manual's , original slips etc - bought new from thomann last year - 350 euro from a well know ad site.

Was blessed to get them at that price but they come up quite often at 450/550

Ask sounds-around was that old italian lira he was lookin for.

Did you end up selling them?

Ddisco

BaZmO* wrote: »

Did you end up selling them?

No , just bought this set bazmo

BaZmO*

Oh ok, was just wondering. There was someone on Adverts recently with a similar username selling a set.

was.deevey

Ask sounds-around was that old italian lira he was lookin for.

Nah ...They must be quoting direct from manufaturer sheets in Yen

Think they've been doing that for a number of years though ... scroll down to the euro prices lads

Paul1979

Apparatly it's official
http://www.nowtoronto.com/daily/story.cfm?content=177772

jtsuited

Paul1979 wrote: »

Apparatly it's official
http://www.nowtoronto.com/daily/story.cfm?content=177772

I sincerely doubt a Canadian fashion magazine were deemed important enough for Panasonic to divulge this sort of information to.

seems like a bunch of vacuous marketing cúnts trying to be the most linked to website of the week.

Scubadevils

There is absolutely no way they are discontinuing Technics... a company the size of Panasonic would have some mention on their own website and certainly have an indication on the product section at least...

http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/290229/module/general/compare/productsCategory.html

seannash

Just saw this on another site,apparantly sent out to a store in australia.Could be doctored though

BaZmO*

That letter looks terrible

jtsuited

first thing that popped into my head was 'how the hell is the director of consumer electronics of Panasonic such a bad letter writer'.

Then I noticed it was Panasonic Australia (excuse the racism folks!).

harsea8

Whenever these rumours pop up, they always seem to be based around Oz, which might suggest this is another fake....that said, just did a quick search around on online stores and there are very few available, especially the mk5s (although this may be the result of "panic buying" due to the rumours). IMO, if Panasonic are really discontinuing the 1200/1210s, what reason is there for not officially announcing it? Seems very unprofessional and un-Japanese TBH

joker77

Rumours not going away - Panasonic apparently have released a statement:

http://www.residentadvisor.net/news.aspx?id=13154

Following weeks of rumours and speculation, Panasonic has confirmed that their Technics brand of turntables has been discontinued.

The Osaka-based technology company sent out the following statement yesterday:

Panasonic has confirmed that it ceased the production of its Technics-branded analogue turntables this autumn.

After more than 35 years as a leading manufacturer of analogue turntables, Panasonic has regretfully taken the decision to leave this market. However, Panasonic will continue to sell headphones under the Technics brand.

We are sure that retailers and consumers will understand that our product range has to reflect the accelerating transformation of the entire audio market from analogue to digital.

In addition, the number of component suppliers serving the analogue market has dwindled in recent years and we brought forward the decision to leave the market rather than risk being unable to fulfill future orders because of a lack of parts.

Panasonic employees who have been working on the analogue turntable range have been redeployed elsewhere within Panasonic – many of them continuing to work in Panasonic’s Audio Video Business Unit.

Resident Advisor recently spoke with JC Faxas, the main DJ Buyer for Guitar Center Inc, the biggest distributor of Technics products in the United States. Based on meetings with Technics' vice president, he confirmed much of Panasonic's statement, especially that a shortage of essential parts was the key factor in their decision. "Panasonic had been using some of the same parts manufacturers for over 40 years and most had gone out of business, so it would be very difficult and expensive to get some of those parts in production once again."

But after working directly with Technics for over a decade, Faxas also thinks the brand could have survived if Panasonic valued it more highly. "In my opinion, if Technics was a stand-alone company and not part of Panasonic, then there would be sufficient business for the company to continue. I feel that Technics has always been pocket change to Panasonic, whose upper management never took the DJ business seriously. The question now is whether a manufacturer will step up with a suitable alternative since there will never be a true replacement."

jtsuited

ah sh1te i'm fairly sure I bet one of my gonads on this not happening (or at least vowing to eat my shoe if it does). But it's looking fairly likely that indeed the 1210's are not going to be made anymore.
bollocks.

BaZmO*

Ah that's a pity. Oh well.

Anybody know where I can get a 1210 repaired? Thought it might have been as simple as an internal fuse but doesn't look like it. I'll need to get someone that knows what they're doing to have a look at it. Don't really want to get charged mad money either.

jtsuited

BaZmO* wrote: »

Ah that's a pity. Oh well.

Anybody know where I can get a 1210 repaired? Thought it might have been as simple as an internal fuse but doesn't look like it. I'll need to get someone that knows what they're doing to have a look at it. Don't really want to get charged mad money either.

aquarius. give em a ring.

BaZmO*

Will do. Thanks.

jtsuited

tell em jeff sent ya.

BaZmO*

jtsuited wrote: »

tell em jeff sent ya.

Jeff the screw?

Will it make any difference?

jtsuited

ah it might. they did a job on my 1210's for an absolute steal of a price and they know me.

brianc27

got new leads, ground wires and pitch sliders put on my decks a few days ago down there, very reasonable price, you wont be charged mad money down there

ianuss

jtsuited wrote: »

ah it might. they did a job on my 1210's for an absolute steal of a price and they know me.

Typical - Jeff the Jew!

jtsuited

brianc27 wrote: »

got new leads, ground wires and pitch sliders put on my decks a few days ago down there, very reasonable price, you wont be charged mad money down there

as a matter of interest did they remove the click on your pitch slider?