Breeders Cup Thread

Nulty

Just a few days to go until the action begins and I'm just looking at outsiders.


Fillies and Mares Turf

Hibaayeb in the Filly and Mares Turf shouldn't be 20/1 if the gound is suitable. I don't know what the weather is like yet but if its GF or Firm shes got a decent chance. She patently hates anything other than Fast ground and definitely a bet if thats what she gets.


Turf

Debussy clearly loves a tight track but also seems to need a bit of juice in the ground. Either he or Hibaayeb will get something close to their optimum but obviously couldn't complete the double. He's 12/1 now and if what the experts are saying is true about Workforce really needing time to wind up in the straight, the opposite is true of Debussy.


Marathon

The rest I don't really know. Bright Horizon is an obvious one. 5/1 based just on the stamina issues of the Americans looks a decent - and maybe big - price.

Huntthe

It would be a very poor renewal if Debussy won it, Workforce and Bekhabad are far superior animals.

Nulty

Of course the best horse doesn't always win the race. Workforce is a better horse but there are ways to get him beaten. I don't give him a 44% chance of doing it when he needs to travel 1,000s of miles for the first time. Will he get Lasix?

Watch the Arlington Million....thats a nice turn of foot.

Juwwi

I did a treble a few weeks ago of midday 1/1 goldikova 6/4 and
bekhenbad at 7/2.

prices have'nt changed much since.

l was doing the bekhenbad part as there was talk workforce might'nt run but l think he has a good chance anyway even with workforce running.

Unlikely all 3 will win but a €450 return for €20 it was worth the risk.

Nulty

Firm turf at Churchill Downs unlikely to ease
By Jon Lees 7:12PM 1 NOV 2010

THE CHURCHILL DOWNS turf course is firm and unlikely to ease with Louisville's drought-like climate set to continue right up to Friday and Saturday's Breeders' Cupraces.

Track superintendent Butch Lehr said there had been no significant rain at the track since June and, though he was watering the turf course, the going would be firm.

"The track is firm but it's not overly firm," he said. "I've watered for ten minutes last night and I'm continuing doing that every night, but I'm keeping it moist. This course is not a real firm course to begin with.

"I'm not going to change anything. I'm the guy that maintains this and right now I think it's in excellent shape. We've been doing this since 1985, I've seen every Breeders' Cup that'srun here. I've got people that are monitoring it and saying it's as good as it gets.

"As far as I'm concerned it's safe and the people that normally race with us would tell you that. There are people that have seen a lot firmer than this course would be.

"There is not any rain about that amounts to anything. To be honest we haven't had any for about five months. It's kind of a freak deal right now."

Temperatures have dropped over the last few days and by the end of week are forecast to dip to 9C during Saturday, having peaked at 17C on Monday.

The National Weather Service said the week would remain dry but rain and snow showers were possible on Thursday night into Friday though the chance of precipitation was no more than 20 per cent.

Debussy is a no-bet then

hucklebuck

robbie1977 wrote: »

I did a treble a few weeks ago of midday 1/1 goldikova 6/4 and
bekhenbad at 7/2.

prices have'nt changed much since.

l was doing the bekhenbad part as there was talk workforce might'nt run but l think he has a good chance anyway even with workforce running.

Unlikely all 3 will win but a €450 return for €20 it was worth the risk.

That looks a great bet robbie, I might throw Zenyetta in for a fourfold :cool:

UrbanSea

Think I'm gonna throw a tenner on Goldi,Midday and Zenyatta.

Nulty

Live barrier draws here

5PM - 6.30PM

http://www.breederscup360.com/2010-breeders-cup-draw/


Really boring stuff...

Nulty

Workforces participation is in serious doubt with the ground coming up so fast and hard. Good grass covering but it's officially firm. I don't think they should bother running him, especially if hes coming back into training for next year. He's too valuable to run out there on that ground.

Nulty

The RP Breeders Cup mini site shows which horses have been delared with lasix at the bottom of their cards. Definitely worth checking before putting your bets on. The French horses (Behkabad, Plumania) don't appear to be interested in the meds. They wouldn't interest me either.

mr.jingle

Is anybody else hoping Zenyatta gets beat just to shut the Americans on youtube racing videos(or just American's in general) saying she's the greatest horse ever! Don't get me wrong she is a very good horse and one that probably never will get the credit over this side of the pond because well the races she runs in aren't as good as Irish or British Group 1's. But then again the Americans will never give the credit to Sea The Stars as they never accept anything that isn't there's.

LutherBlissett

No actually, because I quite like the idea of the wider American public embracing racing due to a popular horse, and because I believe that going 20 races unbeaten (including prizes like the Classic) is pretty much incredible, I really, really want to see Zenyatta win.

Juwwi

Nulty wrote: »

The RP Breeders Cup mini site shows which horses have been delared with lasix at the bottom of their cards. Definitely worth checking before putting your bets on. The French horses (Behkabad, Plumania) don't appear to be interested in the meds. They wouldn't interest me either.

Is it a big disadvantage nulty not to be racing on the lasix ?

I wonder if there is a site to find out how previous european horses who didnt run on lasix conpared to those who did.

Nulty

Horses win races by a nose. Especially at the top level you want as much in your favour as possible. Aiden O'brien ran 4 horses last year and the only one with lasix won (Man Of Iron). Its easy to see a horse that flattens out during their races without lasix comes on a ton for the medication in their next race. I think Rip Van Winkle would have run much better last year if he was on lasix. He was going well until the last three furlongs or so but just fell out the back. It's typical of a horse that bleeds during a race.

The lasix allows the horse to maintain their effort towards the end of their races and I would never back a horse without it in a BC race. Its not like they can't win without lasix. Lahaleeb won the E P Taylor Stakes as the only one in the field without lasix.

Bleeding

Furosemide (Lasix)

UrbanSea

mr.jingle wrote: »

Is anybody else hoping Zenyatta gets beat just to shut the Americans on youtube racing videos(or just American's in general) saying she's the greatest horse ever! Don't get me wrong she is a very good horse and one that probably never will get the credit over this side of the pond because well the races she runs in aren't as good as Irish or British Group 1's. But then again the Americans will never give the credit to Sea The Stars as they never accept anything that isn't there's.

They must be the stupidest people in the world. I would have loved to see Sea the Stars go over there and stuff her.

bit of a bogey

Nulty wrote: »

Aiden O'brien ran 4 horses last year and the only one with lasix won (Man Of Iron).

And what a pig of a horse he turned out to be this year!

Will be interesting to see how O'Brien horses run this year as I see from the rp website that they'll all be on lasix. Bright Horizon to get him of to a great start! Nice Bet e/w best price 7/1!

UrbanSea

bit of a bogey wrote: »

Nulty wrote: »

Aiden O'brien ran 4 horses last year and the only one with lasix won (Man Of Iron).

And what a pig of a horse he turned out to be this year!

Will be interesting to see how O'Brien horses run this year as I see from the rp website that they'll all be on lasix. Bright Horizon to get him of to a great start! Nice Bet e/w best price 7/1!

In fairness the horse wasn't a star before he won the race last year,he had a very light year and was on lasix,Mastery is still a much better horse. (dead heated in a race tonight ahead of him)

Nulty

greetings wrote: »

In fairness the horse wasn't a star before he won the race last year,he had a very light year and was on lasix,Mastery is still a much better horse. (dead heated in a race tonight ahead of him)

Mastery was 3rd in Man Of Irons Breeders Cup win. Over 1m6f.

I don't know if Mastery was on lasix

UrbanSea

Nulty wrote: »

Mastery was 3rd in Man Of Irons Breeders Cup win. Over 1m6f.

I don't know if Mastery was on lasix

I know,that's the point I'm making.

Nulty

Mastery was on lasix last year.

Heres another aticle on lasix

Nulty

American riders describe Churchill turf as 'soft'
By Lee Mottershead in Kentucky 8:13PM 3 NOV 2010

THE validity of the claims that the firmness of the Churchill Downs turf track could be sufficient to prevent Workforce and Midday participating in the Breeders' Cup were challenged on Wednesday when two leading American jockeys described the ground as "soft".

Although officially posted as firm, the much-discussed turf track received positive reviews from riders following Wednesday's 1m maiden, the first contest to be staged on the turf track this week.


The turf, described as "hard" and "rattling" this week, has been the hottest topic among European connections during the Breeders' Cup build-up, but dual Breeders' Cup winner Rafael Bejarano was one of many offering a different opinion after horses raced on the 7f oval.

Bejarano, who was winninghis 400th race at Churchill Downs aboard the Sheikh Mohammed-owned Distant Sky, said: "It's a little soft, but I think it will be good for Friday and Saturday."

Even more dubious of European accusations was Tony Farina, who said: "It's soft. The fence is out very wide, so it's hard to tell, but it's definitely not too firm. I'd say it's similar to European ground."

Shaun Bridgmohan, another to ride in the event, said: "It's good ground. I thought it was fine."

In the same vein, Jamie Theriot said: "The turf is great. It's certainly not too firm."

http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/breeders-cup-churchill-downs-american-riders-describe-churchill-turf-as-soft/785138/breederscup/

Gold! The politics are strong between the continents already. :P

UrbanSea

I didn't realise he was on lasix. Had a long season in fairness.

UpInClass

Zenyatta grazing... (photo taken on Wednesday)

smartaform

Nulty wrote: »

http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/breeders-cup-churchill-downs-american-riders-describe-churchill-turf-as-soft/785138/breederscup/

Gold! The politics are strong between the continents already. :P

I've been a little surprised about the euro contingent complaining about the track.... In saying that, last year they were complaining about the Curragh's good-firm ground...
Are they looking for excuses beforehand??

UrbanSea

smartaform wrote: »

I've been a little surprised about the euro contingent complaining about the track.... In saying that, last year they were complaining about the Curragh's good-firm ground...
Are they looking for excuses beforehand??

I think it's being blown out of proportion. The American good/soft could well be the equivalent of good-firm in England,who knows.
Certainly soft ground at the Curragh is softer than soft ground at Newmarket.

smartaform

We all know the irish dont know good ground lol...

I agree it has been blown out of proportion. But some sort of common sense should reign here shouldn't it??? Why not at least have someone(stable rep) reporting track conditions from Churchill downs for a month or so before the race??

Even firm ground has a minimum amount of give in it - otherwise its just craziness to allow races to proceed. I know Australia use a 'going stick', the stick has measurements and they can give an accurate track description - ie Good 8 or Slow 3....

RichieLawlor

My nap for the Night after doing a bit of digging around is Winter Memories in the juvenile filllies turf.

Nulty

She looks very good Richie. I have a few shillings on her too.

Nulty

My ATR Tipping Challenge Selections

RACE TITLE & SELECTION

20:10 Breeders' Cup Marathon (Grade 3) (Dirt)
10 points to win on Bright Horizon at Pool Price


20:50 Breeders Cup Juvenile Fillies Turf (Grade 2)
10 points to win on Winter Memories at Pool Price


21:30 Sentinent Jet Breeders' Cup Filly & Mare Sprint (Grade 1) (Dirt)
10 points to win on Informed Decision at Pool Price


22:10 Grey Goose Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies (Grade 1) (Dirt)
10 points to win on Harlan's Ruby at Pool Price


22:50 Emirates Airline Breeders' Cup Filly & Mare Turf (Grade 1)
50 points to win on Hibaayeb at Pool Price


23:30 Breeders' Cup Ladies Classic (Fillies' Grade 1) (Dirt)
10 points to win on It's Tea Time at Pool Price

UrbanSea

I didn't realise Michael Tabor had horses in America,does anyone know how many he does?

UrbanSea

Hmmm seems he had plenty of American success.
http://www.britishhorseracing.com/goracing/racing/peopleinracing/owners/view.asp?item=001973

mr.jingle

Has anybody got a link for tonights racing? Stuck in work and we ain't got atr:mad:

smartaform

greetings wrote: »

Hmmm seems he had plenty of American success.
http://www.britishhorseracing.com/goracing/racing/peopleinracing/owners/view.asp?item=001973

Has a good number over there. Mainly with Todd Pletcher... Must be part of the Coolmore USA Branch. Alot a bred for dirt so a better idea to keep them over there. Excellent prizemoney on offer...

troops

mr.jingle wrote: »

Has anybody got a link for tonights racing? Stuck in work and we ain't got atr:mad:

http://www.breederscup.com/content.aspx?id=29093

Nulty

Jebus. Best horse lost because of a jockey!

I don't care what the lads say on the tv. She would have won with a clear trip.

Nulty

Calvin Borel -v- Javier Castellano

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvaA84KtUsI

Lammtarra

Midday only beat Plumania by 3/4l last time at Longchamp over 1m4f on soft ground. Tonight's race is over 1f shorter and the ground is faster, probably on the good side of good to soft, which should both be in Plumania's favour.

Midday is 5/4 while Plumania is 15/2.

I am going to have a wee bet on Plumania. At the worst I can't see her not being placed.

UrbanSea

Nulty wrote: »

Calvin Borel -v- Javier Castellano

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvaA84KtUsI

Nulty what happened there? Missed it,was out for dinner with the parents.

Nulty

Castellano cut across Borel in the marathon. watch the replay. people could have died.

x PyRo

Workforce pulled out, rightly so if things aren't to suit.

UrbanSea

Punters won't be happy with Stoutey.

mr.jingle

Cracking performance once again by the wonder horse Goldikova! Absolutely blitzed them even after looking in a little trouble at the top of the straight. Brilliant

corny

Goldikova is simply unbelievable.

UrbanSea

I love Goldikova. She runs very strangely the way she carries her head.

argosy2006

http://www.espa.tv/embed.php?channel=wip3&width=780&height=560

mr.jingle

I know i put up earlier in this thread i was hoping Zenyatta was beaten but she has actually won me over tonight! All i can say is what was Mike Smith doing? I was looking at around the half way point saying there's no way she's gonna win and what a challenge she threw down all guts and only beaten on the nod. I'm actually quite gutted:eek:

hucklebuck

Great win for Goldi, shocking ride on Zenyata :eek:. The commentator was terrible, waiting to call her as the winner.

Newtown90

Shocking ride by Mike Smith!!

He should be ashamed of himself trying to show boat cruising through them all..

Would have walked it if he rode her like always!

Blame a worthy winner! Shocking comments by the commentator!!

Nulty

Glenviewjf wrote: »

Shocking ride by Mike Smith!!

He should be ashamed of himself trying to show boat cruising through them all..

Would have walked it if he rode her like always!

Blame a worthy winner! Shocking comments by the commentator!!

I missed that. What happened there?

Newtown90

He said Blame wasnt the worthy winner and the owners should give the race and prize to zenyata or something similar!!

He was dead on it that Zenyata was the real winner!

Nulty

Zenyatta falls to Blame in incredible Classic
By Racing Post staff 10:48PM 6 NOV 2010

Report: USA, Saturday

Breeders' Cup Classic (Grade 1) 1m2f, 3yo+

ZENYATTA came within a whisker of making history under the famous spires of Churchill Downs, laying down one of the most incredible runs in Breeders' Cup history to make up roughly 20 lengths but ultimately fail to get the better of Blame by the tiniest of margins.

Zenyatta's legions of fans were left chewing their fingernails as jockey Mike Smith allowed the field to steal 15 lengths on his mount within the opening furlong.

Running down the back straight the amazing mare, who had gone 19 races undefeated before this race, was over 20 lengths behind the leaders.

She had not passed a single horse as they swung into the final turn but with thefield bunching and Zenyatta suddenly looming, memories of last year's Classic at Santa Anita and her dramatic late lunge began swirling about the grandstand.

Smith opted not to navigate the crowded field and steered out towards the stands' side, where Zenyatta finally got going and swept past one rival after another.

It came down to a desperate drive to the winning line. Blame, out in front, and Zenyatta, eating up the yards with a ferocious appetite. But the post came too soon for Zenyatta and her fans. Blame held out, Zenyatta's unbeaten record was in tatters, but the worldwide audience that gathered to watch this remarkable mare were left with the memory of one of the all-time great Breeders' Cup races.

More to follow...

http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/breeders-cup-zenyatta-just-fails-to-catch-blame-in-classic/786633/top/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Et15M6wsPo