I've been diagnosed with TMJ (Temporomandibular joint disorder) What should I do now?

marti8

Hi, I went to a local dentist a few days ago to get a panoramic x-ray and a checkup, was concerned about root canals but was then told I have something called TMJ. I also need root canals done but TNJ is my big new problem ......I am a medical card patient (paid for that checkup and x-ray as I have already used my "one free go per year" thing) :rolleyes: Anyway, the dentist mentioned getting a "splint" (like a mouthguard thingie) With consultation would cost €130 -€150 in total. A few weeks earlier I had been at another dentist for a filling (as a med card patient) and he never said anything about TMJ :rolleyes:..........

Has anyone else ever had (or has) TMJ? I phoned the HSE and was told I could be waiting 6 months before even seeing a specialist and then would attend once a month for therapy etc. No offence but that sounds crap. The HSE won't cover root canal tretment I need done on a molar - a dentist requested it but they refused. So, if that needs to be pulled I'll have either no bite on that side of my mouth or a seriously compromised bite - while all the time still having TMJ! Bloody hell, eh.

Then I was reding a little and getting increasingly concerned ad TMJ can develop very seriously if not treated etc - including hearing loss. As it is I have tinitus (non-stop), get headaches, earaches, jawaches, eyeaches, sensitive to bright light and sunshine sometimes, also vomitting sometimes but that could be due to an acid reflux problem. All in all falling to pieces. And I'm only in my 30's! I also suffer from depression (that's what the DA is for) and all these headaches, earaches, tinnitus etc isn't good and affects my depression too.

So, any ideas what else could be done for TMJ? If requested would the HSE pay for the splint and consultation? If this new dentist requested root canal treatment given that I now also have TMJ would that be authorised I wonder? Pulling the molar will surely make the TMJ even worse? Thanks.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Ukraine maybe
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68771968&postcount=23

marti8

Alejandro Important Liquid wrote: »

Ukraine maybe
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68771968&postcount=23

Yep, it may have to be Ukraine as I have to get the root canals done and need a few fillings etc. Ireland would be handy though and would be even better if I didn't have to dip into our savings.

Going To phone the dentist today and ask them to refer me to the public service at the HSE for folks with TMJ - they should really have done that already. Will see my doc tomorrow about the TMJ and see what she says as TMJ isn't simply a dental issue it's also a general medical issue that could possibly involve neurologists etc from what I can see. (Hope they don't have to open my brain up? They'll be nothing to see!)

But seriously, TMJ can't be done in Ukraine unless I'm willing and able to move there for months. Sorting out TMJ is a long and sometimes complex process. That's why I'm wondering what the next steps in Ireland would be and whether anyone else either has or had TMJ and how did they address it?

digzy

Its a hard knock-life....... for us........................its a hard-knock life.......... for us................

jesus here we go again

Tmj is managed not cured. a dentist can make you a splint to stop grinding and maybe dome exercises after that theres f** all you can do.

if you cant afford rct and you're in pain get it extracted for free.

and spare us the blather about the hse......you should have had it restored years ago instead of letting things deteriorate

marti8

digzy wrote: »

Its a hard knock-life....... for us........................its a hard-knock life.......... for us................

jesus here we go again

Tmj is managed not cured. a dentist can make you a splint to stop grinding and maybe dome exercises after that theres f** all you can do.

if you cant afford rct and you're in pain get it extracted for free.

and spare us the blather about the hse......you should have had it restored years ago instead of letting things deteriorate

Wow, wiki has more info than you have! Are you seriously suggesting that "after that theres f** all you can do"? I suggest you check wiki. Don't tell me you're a dentist or a dental student?!!! :rolleyes:

When you say I should have gotten it restored years ago - how exactly? I have been to numerous Irish dentists over the years and never once has one of them suggested any problems with that molar. The pain in that molar only began a few weeks ago and has greatly subsided - yet still needs to be addressed.

As for the "blather" about the HSE - do you work for them or something? :rolleyes: Maybe you'd rather people don't point out the failings in the system.

looksee

I am in my 60s and have had TMJ most of my life - well since I had some dodgy dental work as a child. Its a nuisance but it is not necessarily going to cause you all of the issues you list.

I did have a splint for a while, it was expensive and was not a lot of help - supposed to stop me grinding my teeth at night.

I have had some very basic (and doubtful) advice for which I was charged a lot of money.

I am now deaf, but it has nothing to do with the TMJ.

I have had so called 'private' treatment (ie in a public hospital but I paid for it) and did not get anywhere.

You could well find, as I do, that while you are caught up with it it will be a significant problem, but when something else comes along to distract you you will disregard it.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

SO basically you reccomend that people spend their money in the ukraine getting dental work but when it comes to yourself you want to stay here cause its convienent and paid for by the tax payer, but you cant understand why the HSE cant get you an appointment quickly. Do you see any hiprocrasy here, or cause and effect?

marti8

looksee wrote: »

I am in my 60s and have had TMJ most of my life - well since I had some dodgy dental work as a child. Its a nuisance but it is not necessarily going to cause you all of the issues you list.

I did have a splint for a while, it was expensive and was not a lot of help - supposed to stop me grinding my teeth at night.

I have had some very basic (and doubtful) advice for which I was charged a lot of money.

I am now deaf, but it has nothing to do with the TMJ.

I have had so called 'private' treatment (ie in a public hospital but I paid for it) and did not get anywhere.

You could well find, as I do, that while you are caught up with it it will be a significant problem, but when something else comes along to distract you you will disregard it.

Thanks for the advice I was only told about it last Friday, when the dentist said "open your mouth", upon doing so he saw at once that something was all wrong. Surprisingly (well, it's Ireland so maybe not) another dentist a couple of weeks earlier didn't spot anything amiss - despite the very same symptoms "oh, that needs a filling sure!" Not a wrod about TMJ :rolleyes: Of course there are good dentists and bad dentists.

Very sorry to hear about your hearing loss. I just worry that is I don't sort out the TMJ that it could lead to that too (it's a possibility) My dentist is going to refer me to a HSE clinic for TMJ and I'll see where it goes from there. He's also going to send them a request re: treatment (splint) for TMJ. Thanks.

marti8

Alejandro Important Liquid wrote: »

SO basically you reccomend that people spend their money in the ukraine getting dental work but when it comes to yourself you want to stay here cause its convienent and paid for by the tax payer, but you cant understand why the HSE cant get you an appointment quickly. Do you see any hiprocrasy here, or cause and effect?

No, I don't see any hypocrasy there at all. If people are in reciept of a medical card then the State should provide decent dental coverage, simples.

If people can afford to pay then it is upto them where they choose to get the dental work done. They can pay exorbitant prices here in rip off Ireland or cheaper prices abroad. Dentists have to make a profit of course they do, that's not the point, the point is just how much of a profit do they have to make? Profit at the expense of people who because of the States dismal funding for medical card dental treatments are forced to pay, sometimes out of some basic savings for their own treatment. Not to mention lower paid workers who don't have a medical card or private cover.

If you want to point fingers by all means do but you'd be better off pointing them at this governments slash and burn approach to healthcare in Ireland.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Well a dentist here need to make more than 25 euro for 2-3 hours of a root canal. If you have money to fly to the Ukraine stay in a hotel and pay for dental work you have a few hundred euro to go privatly to get this seen to and stop burdening the health service.

marti8

Alejandro Important Liquid wrote: »

Well a dentist here need to make more than 25 euro for 2-3 hours of a root canal. If you have money to fly to the Ukraine stay in a hotel and pay for dental work you have a few hundred euro to go privatly to get this seen to and stop burdening the health service.

I need several things done - several fillings, teeth cleaning, splint for TMJ, periodontal treatment for one area of gum, root canal on one molar (possibly more) It is still cheaper for me to fly to Ukraine, stay in a hotel, get the treatmenst needed than it is for me to pay for it privately here in Ireland. I'm doing two things at once: having a short "holiday" abroad (which believe it or not even those on social welfare are entitled to) and also getting dental treatment.

The problem is that the government doesn't properly resource (finance) the medical card sytem when it comes to dental issues. Dental coverage in this country for medical card holders is a joke. So if people need it they either have to pay inflated prices in Ireland or go abroad - people on social welfare shouldn't have to use what savings they may have to pay for their own dental treatments.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean about €25? Are you saying a dentist makes a profit of only €25 for a 2-3 hour root canal?............. However, you are going off topic. This thread is about TMJ not root canal treatments.

digzy

maybe the hse should pay a dentist in ukraine to sort you out.:rolleyes:

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I think I will start paying my taxes in the Ukraine while on holiday there, cheaper and I am doing two things at once. You can be sure when cost of living is taken into account that being a dentist in the Ukraine is similar to a dentist in ireland, the difference is the money the dentist in ireland makes 50% goes to paying for your medical card. (100% of income tax in ireland is used to fund the HSE).

I am begining to get TMD myself trying to explain this simple economic principle. Spend you money in ireland = more tax and employment = more benefits on then medical card. Spend your money abroad = less tax, jobs lost = cuts in the health service.

So dont on one hand reccomend health tourism and then on the other complain about cuts in the HSE and your welfare.

sudzs

marti8, you don't seem to mention if you have symptoms of TMJ disorder?

Anyway, I suffer from it too, like looksee, mine was caused by poor dental treatment in the UK, but I live here, I'm not a tourist!!!

Anyway, when I was suffering really badly with it, mostly muscle spasms around the TMJ joint I bought this book - Taking Control of TMJ by Robert O. Uppgaard, (you can get it on Amazon)

It has are some exercises and great advice in the book. Really helped me. If it hadn't I was going to try Bowan therapy. It's a very gentle type of therapy that I'm told works quickly and effectively on TMJ problems. But like I say, the book helped me so didn't need to go down the other route.

I get the odd twinge now but have recently found that magnesium supplements are a brilliant help! Magnesium is important for muscles to relax and I have to say I am nearly twinge free for the last few months since taking magnesium every night! Helps you sleep too!

marti8

Alejandro Important Liquid wrote: »

I think I will start paying my taxes in the Ukraine while on holiday there, cheaper and I am doing two things at once. You can be sure when cost of living is taken into account that being a dentist in the Ukraine is similar to a dentist in ireland, the difference is the money the dentist in ireland makes 50% goes to paying for your medical card. (100% of income tax in ireland is used to fund the HSE).

I am begining to get TMD myself trying to explain this simple economic principle. Spend you money in ireland = more tax and employment = more benefits on then medical card. Spend your money abroad = less tax, jobs lost = cuts in the health service.

So dont on one hand reccomend health tourism and then on the other complain about cuts in the HSE and your welfare.

If prices were reasonable in Ireland and if what I needed done wasn't covered by the med card then I would pay - provided I had enough moula to pay. You're missing the point that there in fact IS money - it simply isn't distrubted by government to where it is best suited. But that's a whole different political economics argument. At the end of the day the government simply does not finance the med card properly when it comes to dental. That leaves people on the med card in the position of having teeth pulled which could cause further complications, using what savings (if any) that they have to pay for it either in Ireland or abroad.

I can see you are pushing the Irish dentists don't overcharge bit but you're wrong, they do. They could reduce their costs and still make a profit - however, again, that's another argument.

marti8

sudzs wrote: »

marti8, you don't seem to mention if you have symptoms of TMJ disorder?

Anyway, I suffer from it too, like looksee, mine was caused by poor dental treatment in the UK, but I live here, I'm not a tourist!!!

Anyway, when I was suffering really badly with it, mostly muscle spasms around the TMJ joint I bought this book - Taking Control of TMJ by Robert O. Uppgaard, (you can get it on Amazon)

It has are some exercises and great advice in the book. Really helped me. If it hadn't I was going to try Bowan therapy. It's a very gentle type of therapy that I'm told works quickly and effectively on TMJ problems. But like I say, the book helped me so didn't need to go down the other route.

I get the odd twinge now but have recently found that magnesium supplements are a brilliant help! Magnesium is important for muscles to relax and I have to say I am nearly twinge free for the last few months since taking magnesium every night! Helps you sleep too!

Thanks for the info on the book - will have to look that up. I am simply going on the diagnosis by the dentist. I don't get spasms. I have non-stop tinnitus and sometimes earache, jawache, headache, eyeache, sinus issue called Upper Airway Cough Syndrome (UACS) also called Post Nasal Drip (yeah, lovely) - seeing an ENT specialist in a month about that (also have asthma which isn't great when you have UACS) My bite or whatever is all wrong according to the dentist. It was my first time ever seeing him and he asked me had I ever had lockjaw - f*** no! I have the opposite poblem, I talk too much

One way or another it'll be sorted out - if it can be. Surgery is a last option but only in extreme cases, not there, yet. I also suffer from depression so having all these things doesn't help (it's not "I wanna throw myself out a window" depression, just regular stuff I guess) I may also be a sociopath but that's only to be expected from hours on boards.ie :pac: Hello Clarice.....Also could have ADHD according to my doc, my life gets better and better.........and I'm convincing myself I have early onset Alzheimers (sorry, can't remember if that's spelt correctly)

Bowan therapy? I haven't heard of that but I'll look it up! Thanks again and gald to hear things worked out ok for you.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

yeah I think from what your discribing your problem may be multifactorial. I dont think anyone on the forum can give you good advice. Professional advice and a clinical examination is needed.

Indian head massage, soft diet and no chewing gum are all inoccous and can help.

marti8

Alejandro Important Liquid wrote: »

yeah I think from what your discribing your problem may be multifactorial. I dont think anyone on the forum can give you good advice. Professional advice and a clinical examination is needed.

Indian head massage, soft diet and no chewing gum are all inoccous and can help.

Yeah, I do need professional advice alright. I need my head examined in more ways than one, lol. Well, the dentist did tell me it was TMJ so that's what I am basing it on. But ideally I should see a specialist to know more and that's going to take 6 months unless I can get it seen to abroad and then there's the language difficulty - will see. Thanks for the info re: massage etc. Don't know if I could do regurgatated baby food though (oh, forgot to mention my acid reflux condition - I'm a bundle of joy!)

looksee

marti8 wrote: »

Yeah, I do need professional advice alright. I need my head examined in more ways than one, lol. Well, the dentist did tell me it was TMJ so that's what I am basing it on. But ideally I should see a specialist to know more and that's going to take 6 months unless I can get it seen to abroad and then there's the language difficulty - will see. Thanks for the info re: massage etc. Don't know if I could do regurgatated baby food though (oh, forgot to mention my acid reflux condition - I'm a bundle of joy!)

If you get referred to a particular consultant in Cork that's what he will recommend, but he will charge you €150 - buy the book!

georgieporgy

sudzs wrote: »

marti8, you don't seem to mention if you have symptoms of TMJ disorder?

Anyway, I suffer from it too, like looksee, mine was caused by poor dental treatment in the UK, but I live here, I'm not a tourist!!!

Anyway, when I was suffering really badly with it, mostly muscle spasms around the TMJ joint I bought this book - Taking Control of TMJ by Robert O. Uppgaard, (you can get it on Amazon)

It has are some exercises and great advice in the book. Really helped me. If it hadn't I was going to try Bowan therapy. It's a very gentle type of therapy that I'm told works quickly and effectively on TMJ problems. But like I say, the book helped me so didn't need to go down the other route.

I get the odd twinge now but have recently found that magnesium supplements are a brilliant help! Magnesium is important for muscles to relax and I have to say I am nearly twinge free for the last few months since taking magnesium every night! Helps you sleep too!

Oil Pulling is good too I think;)

flahavaj

marti8 wrote: »

Yeah, I do need professional advice alright. I need my head examined in more ways than one, lol. Well, the dentist did tell me it was TMJ so that's what I am basing it on. But ideally I should see a specialist to know more and that's going to take 6 months unless I can get it seen to abroad and then there's the language difficulty - will see. Thanks for the info re: massage etc. Don't know if I could do regurgatated baby food though (oh, forgot to mention my acid reflux condition - I'm a bundle of joy!)

As far as I know there are no TMJ specialists employed by the HSE dental services marti8. From what I can tell from your posts, you're being referred to a HSE dentist to see if your condition warrants being approved to have a splint made. I've never heard of a HSE TMJ specialist.

marti8

looksee wrote: »

If you get referred to a particular consultant in Cork that's what he will recommend, but he will charge you €150 - buy the book!

Thanks! The book is sounding good! €150 for some advice, no thanks! Ripp off Ireland at its very best - the old mantra is all too true.

marti8

flahavaj wrote: »

As far as I know there are no TMJ specialists employed by the HSE dental services marti8. From what I can tell from your posts, you're being referred to a HSE dentist to see if your condition warrants being approved to have a splint made. I've never heard of a HSE TMJ specialist.

Oh, really? Didn't know that. Thanks for the info. So, why exactly would I need to see a HSE dentist - is it that the HSE don't trust the qualified opinion of the dentist I went to? Do they believe he's lying or has misdiagnosed? By definition would that mean that every single request for dental treatments that comes across the desk of the HSE dental section has to be double checked first by a HSE dentist before any decision can be made? Sounds very odd.

As far as I know the HSE said I would need to see an oral/aural nurse - I think this is what they said? And that that would take approx, 6 months before I even had the initial checkup/consultation. I could be mistaken or have misunderstood however. They have a p*ss poor attitude.

A couple of weeks ago a different dentist made a request (when I chased them up on it) to the HSE for permission to do root canal on a molar. That was refused. A week prior to that I had gone to a dentist in the same practice complaining of pain and was told I needed a filling on that molar, that was duely done. However the pain persisted. I went back 1 week later and was told the filling was resting on a nerve and causing problems - this was from a different dentist at the same practice. I explained I was popping 8 to 10 painlillers a day and the dentist said they'd remove the root (one root) there and then - for free. I was insisting that despite the pain that they should ask the HSE so they could be compensated but the dentist said not to worry so I had the one root removed (hurt like hell even with anaesthetic) Was told half way through (only took 10 -15 minutes) that I probably had an abcess and got a script for Amoxicllyn (antibiotic) The root was removed as an emergency measure but wasn't filled or anything - and the other two roots remain.

The first dentist at that practice never said anything about TMJ or my bite being wrong. The second dentist at that practice said my bit was all wrong but said nothing re: TMJ. The third dentist who I went to (and paid as a private patient) said I have TMJ. I'm now thinking of asking the last dentist I went to of requesting root canal on the same tooth again, on the basis that I now have TMJ and if root canal isn't done it will have to be pulled (and if it's pulled it will be detremental to my TMJ, as I will then have either no bite or a very compromised bite on that side of my mouth) If the HSE still refuse, then I'll chase that up (accepted it last time before I knew i had TMJ, won't the next time I wonder upon what criteria they base their decisions? Pain? Cost? Associated risk? Will have to find out the appeals process if they refuse it again.

I find it ironic that those very people, very person actually, who make the decision probably claim that they are safeguarding the sytem or trying to save the State money yet these are the very same people who would strike tomorrow morning if their wage was cut or compulsory redundencies were introduced, the very same people who believe their salary should be on average 20% higher than those in the private sector, the very same people who believe a public service job should be for life! Then they have the audacity to claim to be protectors of the public purse :rolleyes: Bit of a double standard there me thinks!

btkm8unsl0w5r4

And medical card holders were never known to give out about anything. Were talking about 5-600 euro over a period of months to get this treated privatly by a specialist. Now you have savings and are willing to spend going to the Ukraine, flights, hotels, meals, transport and dental work. So you decide if you want to moan about the HSE or put you money where your mouth is...literally.

marti8

Alejandro Important Liquid wrote: »

And medical card holders were never known to give out about anything. Were talking about 5-600 euro over a period of months to get this treated privatly by a specialist. Now you have savings and are willing to spend going to the Ukraine, flights, hotels, meals, transport and dental work. So you decide if you want to moan about the HSE or put you money where your mouth is...literally.

I need several fillings (at least 4), possibly a periodontal treatment (gum), cleaning and polishing (arguably cosmetic but only to an extent), at least one root canal (molar), a splint (€150 with consultation) Just add it all up.........

I am putting my money where my mouth is. If I have to go to Ukraine and get it done there, I will. The fact remains that med card patients shouldn't have to do that with any savings they may have. It is the failure of the health system which means people have to. Medeical card patients if they feel sick go to a doctor: they are covered, no limitations. If they have dental problems they are restricted to 2 fillings and one checkup and an undefined number of extractions (if in pain) per year. Why the discrepency, doctor v dentist? They dental system is a joke.

Susie564

Marti8, I'm dizzy reading your post with all the different dentists. I hope you find a solution to your problem.

I unfortunately don't qualify for any financial assistance for my treatment. I have suffered with facial pain, sinus pain, headaches and many more symptoms for the past 3-4 years. I have had CT, X-ray, seen two ENT specialists all to no avail. About two months ago my ear became blocked and off I toddled to my GP thinking I had an ear infection. He referred me on to my dentist as my wisdom teeth are on the move. My dentist could find nothing wrong with my wisdom teeth and was about to send me back to ENT until I talked through my history with him. He then sent me for an OPG and referred me on to a Maxillofacial specialist in James, who as I was in so much pain at that stage saw me about a week later, although I believe the normal wait for an appointment is 2-3 months. He diagnosed TMJ straight away. I returned to my dentist who fitted me for a splint. The acute pain eased in about a 7-10 days. Two trips to my GP cost me €110, two trips to my dentist cost me €100 (even though I was there three or four times I think) and the splint cost me €130. I saw the specialist in James at a public clinic, so there was no cost for that. Pretty good value I think. I don’t know what I would have done if I could not afford to pay for it as the pain was unlike anything I had experienced before.

My question, if anyone can answer it is - six weeks after being diagnosed, wearing splint, doing stretches and soft food diet and numerous pain killers I am still in quite a lot of pain. The acute pain that I had is gone but the pain is still making it difficult to focus in work and is disturbing my sleep. I got the impression from my dentist that once the acute pain is gone it is a matter of waiting for it to settle and that this can take time? Is there anything else I can do? Should I be going back to my dentist at any stage if it doesn't settle? I am planning another visit to my GP this week to see about some more appropriate medication to treat the symptoms, as nurofen just ain’t cutting it?

sudzs

Susie564 wrote: »

Marti8, I'm dizzy reading your post with all the different dentists. I hope you find a solution to your problem.

I unfortunately don't qualify for any financial assistance for my treatment. I have suffered with facial pain, sinus pain, headaches and many more symptoms for the past 3-4 years. I have had CT, X-ray, seen two ENT specialists all to no avail. About two months ago my ear became blocked and off I toddled to my GP thinking I had an ear infection. He referred me on to my dentist as my wisdom teeth are on the move. My dentist could find nothing wrong with my wisdom teeth and was about to send me back to ENT until I talked through my history with him. He then sent me for an OPG and referred me on to a Maxillofacial specialist in James, who as I was in so much pain at that stage saw me about a week later, although I believe the normal wait for an appointment is 2-3 months. He diagnosed TMJ straight away. I returned to my dentist who fitted me for a splint. The acute pain eased in about a 7-10 days. Two trips to my GP cost me €110, two trips to my dentist cost me €100 (even though I was there three or four times I think) and the splint cost me €130. I saw the specialist in James at a public clinic, so there was no cost for that. Pretty good value I think. I don’t know what I would have done if I could not afford to pay for it as the pain was unlike anything I had experienced before.

My question is, if anyone can answer it is - six weeks after being diagnosed, wearing splint, doing stretches and soft food diet and numerous pain killers I am still in quite a lot of pain. The acute pain that I had is gone but it's difficult to focus in work and is disturbing my sleep. I got the impression from my dentist that once the acute pain is gone it is a matter of waiting for it to settle and that this can take time. Is there anything else I can do? Should I be going back to my dentist at any stage if it doesn't settle? I am planning another visit to my GP this week to see about some more appropriate medication to treat the symptoms, as neurofen just ain’t cutting it.

Try taking a calcium & magnesium supplement at night. You can get combined ones with the proper ratio of Ca to Mg, approx 2:1. If nothing else, it should help you sleep and help with any muscle spasms. If not then up the magnesium, it won't do any harm.

And buy the book!!!

Unlike geoigieporgy, I'm not a fan of oilpulling!

Susie564

Thanks sudzs - I have the book on order, I'm sure it will help.
I've read that magnesium can lower your blood pressure, so I want to run that by my GP first as I have low blood pressure anyway.

I think I'll be skipping the oil pulling - does not sound pleasant!

flahavaj

marti8 wrote: »

Oh, really? Didn't know that. Thanks for the info. So, why exactly would I need to see a HSE dentist - is it that the HSE don't trust the qualified opinion of the dentist I went to? Do they believe he's lying or has misdiagnosed? By definition would that mean that every single request for dental treatments that comes across the desk of the HSE dental section has to be double checked first by a HSE dentist before any decision can be made? Sounds very odd.


I find it ironic that those very people, very person actually, who make the decision probably claim that they are safeguarding the sytem or trying to save the State money yet these are the very same people who would strike tomorrow morning if their wage was cut or compulsory redundencies were introduced, the very same people who believe their salary should be on average 20% higher than those in the private sector, the very same people who believe a public service job should be for life! Then they have the audacity to claim to be protectors of the public purse :rolleyes: Bit of a double standard there me thinks!

The HSE want to examine you because they're paying for the treatment. Anything above the most basic of treatment is not covered by the medical card anymore. The HSE will approve things like crowns, root canals and splints when there is a sound clinical reason that a patient will benefit from the treatment. Its not so much a matter of "trusting" dentists, its a matter of ensuring that a very finite budget is used to help the people that need it most. If three requests for splints go in, two of them for people who have signs of tooth wear but no symptoms, but the third one is for a person with acute symptoms from their TMJ, they're at least in a position to ensure the person with the greatest treatment need gets the splint 9only an example but you get the jist).

Also if you're that unhappy with the HSE, you can always follow the advice you have given to others and get a ticket to Kiev and get the treatment done for buttons. just remember to pick up a dictionary on the way so that the dentist can explain the multifactorial, biopsychosocial aetiology of temperomandibular joint dysfunction to you.;)

marti8

Susie564 wrote: »

Marti8, I'm dizzy reading your post with all the different dentists. I hope you find a solution to your problem.

I unfortunately don't qualify for any financial assistance for my treatment. I have suffered with facial pain, sinus pain, headaches and many more symptoms for the past 3-4 years. I have had CT, X-ray, seen two ENT specialists all to no avail. About two months ago my ear became blocked and off I toddled to my GP thinking I had an ear infection. He referred me on to my dentist as my wisdom teeth are on the move. My dentist could find nothing wrong with my wisdom teeth and was about to send me back to ENT until I talked through my history with him. He then sent me for an OPG and referred me on to a Maxillofacial specialist in James, who as I was in so much pain at that stage saw me about a week later, although I believe the normal wait for an appointment is 2-3 months. He diagnosed TMJ straight away. I returned to my dentist who fitted me for a splint. The acute pain eased in about a 7-10 days. Two trips to my GP cost me €110, two trips to my dentist cost me €100 (even though I was there three or four times I think) and the splint cost me €130. I saw the specialist in James at a public clinic, so there was no cost for that. Pretty good value I think. I don’t know what I would have done if I could not afford to pay for it as the pain was unlike anything I had experienced before.

My question, if anyone can answer it is - six weeks after being diagnosed, wearing splint, doing stretches and soft food diet and numerous pain killers I am still in quite a lot of pain. The acute pain that I had is gone but the pain is still making it difficult to focus in work and is disturbing my sleep. I got the impression from my dentist that once the acute pain is gone it is a matter of waiting for it to settle and that this can take time? Is there anything else I can do? Should I be going back to my dentist at any stage if it doesn't settle? I am planning another visit to my GP this week to see about some more appropriate medication to treat the symptoms, as nurofen just ain’t cutting it?

I'm dizzy from it too, lol Oh well, one way or another I'll get it sorted, well, I'll try to get it sorted that is. Sorry to hear about the trouble you've been having, sorry I can't advise you about anything as I don't have a clue about dentistry. Yes, I'm seeing an ENT doc in 4 weeks time - I don't hold out much hope that he'll be able to do much, maybe, I'll see. Will ask my doc tomorrow whether I need to be referred to a Maxillofacial specialist.

Perhaps you could ask your GP for Ponstan - supposed to be good so i've heard. I've been taking painkillers called Tempalgin (banned in some countries - not banned here, just not available) Got packets and packets of them in Russia before. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamizole Best of luck with everything, hope it all works out for you.

marti8

flahavaj wrote: »

The HSE want to examine you because they're paying for the treatment. Anything above the most basic of treatment is not covered by the medical card anymore. The HSE will approve things like crowns, root canals and splints when there is a sound clinical reason that a patient will benefit from the treatment. Its not so much a matter of "trusting" dentists, its a matter of ensuring that a very finite budget is used to help the people that need it most. If three requests for splints go in, two of them for people who have signs of tooth wear but no symptoms, but the third one is for a person with acute symptoms from their TMJ, they're at least in a position to ensure the person with the greatest treatment need gets the splint 9only an example but you get the jist).

Also if you're that unhappy with the HSE, you can always follow the advice you have given to others and get a ticket to Kiev and get the treatment done for buttons. just remember to pick up a dictionary on the way so that the dentist can explain the multifactorial, biopsychosocial aetiology of temperomandibular joint dysfunction to you.;)

Buttons? D'ya mean the chocolate ones ot the coat ones? Hadn't thought of that! Buttons might just work. Well, I have symptoms already - predominantly tinnitus but also from time to time (not 24/7) earache (noticed I'm more sensitive to loud noise recently?), headache, jawache, eyeache (slight aversion to bright light sometimes?) I also have UACS, aka Post Nasal Drip (yummy!) Whether UACS is related to it I have no idea.

I need root canal and the HSE have refused to cover it. Asked the dentist whether I should reapply as I have now bee diagnosed with TMJ however they seem to think having the molar pulled would have no adverse effect on the TMJ which I found quite odd. Spoke to them a few hours ago. They are writing to the HSE asking that I be referred to a specialist or perhaps to a dental hospital - can't recall which. I had, I think quite naturally, assumed that pulling a molar would have a detremental effect whe you have TMJ?

This is the panoramic x-ray I got last Friday, my teeth look a little sideways but in reality they are straight.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Bring that X-ray to one of the dental consultations in a hotel bedroom going on around Ireland for the "dentistry" in Budapest or turkey. They will be able to diagnose and treatment plan a full mouth of crowns and implants from it. (even though its distorted badly). Hey this treatment is probably unnecessary but heck its cheap. They wont be worried about your TMJD either....excellent.

marti8

Alejandro Important Liquid wrote: »

Bring that X-ray to one of the dental consultations in a hotel bedroom going on around Ireland for the "dentistry" in Budapest or turkey. They will be able to diagnose and treatment plan a full mouth of crowns and implants from it. (even though its distorted badly). Hey this treatment is probably unnecessary but heck its cheap. They wont be worried about your TMJD either....excellent.

Well, I'm not going to rip off Hungary :rolleyes: Ireland is much more expensive compared to Hungary and Hungary is much more expensive compared to Ukraine. If I am going it is to Ukraine. I'm not getting crowns or implants. The dentist that advertise to western clients are not offering local prices. They are offering reduced western prices in eastern Europe. Arrange it yourself a little further east and you'll get local prices and you'll save much more.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Awe yes even better, let us know how you get on. (I have heard that azerbaijan is cheaper again.....)

Yes it come to that....people know are complaining that Hungarian dentists are rip of merchants....

marti8

Alejandro Important Liquid wrote: »

Awe yes even better, let us know how you get on. (I have heard that azerbaijan is cheaper again.....)

Yes it come to that....people know are complaining that Hungarian dentists are rip of merchants....

Azerbaijan? Really? Have you been? Or perhaps you have a private dental plan until the plebs? :rolleyes: Would be nice if we could all afford such private plans or if the State actually provided a functioning, fit for purpose med card dental scheme.

Funny that you mention costs in Azerbaijan - I heard Ireland is one of the most expensive countries in the world for dental treatments?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

its not the US, UK (private) and many other countries are more expensive....I hear that Azerbaijan are rip off merchants and that you can get a indoriddium blanko photosysthesis filling in Lagos for 1 euro.....

ballsymchugh

north korea built a big dental hospital a couple of years ago...

marti8

Alejandro Important Liquid wrote: »

its not the US, UK (private) and many other countries are more expensive....I hear that Azerbaijan are rip off merchants and that you can get a indoriddium blanko photosysthesis filling in Lagos for 1 euro.....

I didn't say it was the most expensive, I said it was one of the most expensive. That is correct, Ireland is one of the most expensive countries in the world for dental treatment.

As for your assertion that the US and UK are more expensive, not so. There may be dentists in both countries who charge more than dentists in Ireland but generally dentists charge less than dentists in Ireland. Why do you think Irish people flock to Northern Ireland?

marti8

ballsymchugh wrote: »

north korea built a big dental hospital a couple of years ago...

How much is a photopolymer filling there?

macco66

Bumping this thread.

Just saying that I was looking for information on Indian Head Massage and I stumbled across this. I've been trying to figure out for nearly two years why I've had these pains in my jaw, face, scalp, neck and shoulders as well as general headache, tinitis and a loss of hearing especially in the mornings (as well as other symptoms). After researching TMJ/D, I've zero doubt in my mind that that is what's at the root of the problem.

Thanks. I've made an appointment with my GP for tomorrow. I hope to hell I can get on the road to getting rid of this for good.

By the way, would a history of bruxism be consistent with developing TMJ?
I've some fairly persistent wisdom tooth pain also.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

flahavaj

macco66 wrote: »

Bumping this thread.

Just saying that I was looking for information on Indian Head Massage and I stumbled across this. I've been trying to figure out for nearly two years why I've had these pains in my jaw, face, scalp, neck and shoulders as well as general headache, tinitis and a loss of hearing especially in the mornings (as well as other symptoms). After researching TMJ/D, I've zero doubt in my mind that that is what's at the root of the problem.

Thanks. I've made an appointment with my GP for tomorrow. I hope to hell I can get on the road to getting rid of this for good.

By the way, would a history of bruxism be consistent with developing TMJ?
I've some fairly persistent wisdom tooth pain also.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

It can be yes.

Susie564

Macco66 - those symptoms sound pretty familiar alright. I'm sure I've read somewhere while researching TMJ that bruxism can be a cause of it. My wisdom teeth have been at me a bit of late too but I'm not sure it's connected.
Right now it feels like I'm gonna be in this pain forever! Hopefully that won't be the case.
Good luck with it.

macco66

flahavaj wrote: »

It can be yes.

Cheers

Susie564 wrote: »

Macco66 - those symptoms sound pretty familiar alright. I'm sure I've read somewhere while researching TMJ that bruxism can be a cause of it. My wisdom teeth have been at me a bit of late too but I'm not sure it's connected.
Right now it feels like I'm gonna be in this pain forever! Hopefully that won't be the case.
Good luck with it.

Thanks. I'm really hoping now that the doctor sees things how I do. I'd be honestly over the moon if I was given a proper direction in treating this. After more reading this evening, all symptoms and previous history match up to it as well. I'm just quite aware now, that doctors don't really like people coming in off the street having already diagnosed themselves.:p

Best of luck yourself, Susie564

Big_G

macco66 wrote: »

Bumping this thread.

Just saying that I was looking for information on Indian Head Massage and I stumbled across this. I've been trying to figure out for nearly two years why I've had these pains in my jaw, face, scalp, neck and shoulders as well as general headache, tinitis and a loss of hearing especially in the mornings (as well as other symptoms). After researching TMJ/D, I've zero doubt in my mind that that is what's at the root of the problem.

Thanks. I've made an appointment with my GP for tomorrow. I hope to hell I can get on the road to getting rid of this for good.

By the way, would a history of bruxism be consistent with developing TMJ?
I've some fairly persistent wisdom tooth pain also.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Why would you make an appointment with your GP? No disrespect intended to them but they won't know a damn thing about tmj/d. Go to see your dentist.

macco66

Big_G wrote: »

Why would you make an appointment with your GP? No disrespect intended to them but they won't know a damn thing about tmj/d. Go to see your dentist.

Thanks for the advice. I was under the impression that it was more of a generalised medical complaint and as I've visited my GP regarding these symptoms in the past, I'd thought it correct to visit him again.

If I'm not happy with the outcome, I'll make an appointment with my dentist immediately (although I have a feeling that I'll be doing that anyway).

sudzs

Big_G wrote: »

Why would you make an appointment with your GP? No disrespect intended to them but they won't know a damn thing about tmj/d. Go to see your dentist.

Would have to agree there. When I first had my symptoms and was at a loss as to what it could be, my GP recommended I rest my jaw! She didn't really know the first thing about the complicated issues with TMJ disorder.

macco66

Well, TMJ is the diagnosis. When I mentioned it, my GP had that 'eureka' look on his face and congratulated me on figuring it out. He's given me the name of two specialists, one on the northside of Dublin, the other on the south. I'm also booked in with the dentist for Wednesday morning. It also occurred to me that these problems started within a few weeks of my last Dentist visit where I had two fillings done, if I remember correctly. I'm wondering if they could be connected. I'm also going to get that book which sudzs mentioned on page one. All the reviews I've read are unbelievably positive.

To be honest, I'm feeling some relief already having just been able to even get a diagnosis. Over the moon actually! I can start taking action now.

macco66

I've been referred by my dentist to a South Dublin specialist who is apparently "the best in the business". However, I've also been told that it wont be cheap (the figure of 400euro was mooted). As I've very little money at the moment having recently had to fold my business, I'm wondering whether I'll receive 400euro worth of benefit from a visit or whether I'll be told to eat soft food, as mentioned on page 2 by a poster who visited a specialist in Cork. Can anyone provide opinion? Thanks in advance.

Susie564

My dentist referred me to a specialist in James', who I saw at a public clinic - so no cost. My dentist told me this guy is at the top of his game also. I'm not sure how it works in terms of who refers who to who but I can PM the name to you if you want.
My understanding is that the treatment in general for TMJ is soft food diet, stretching exercises for the jaw, wearing a splint, and rest also. I'm still in quite a lot of pain, but I think I'm doing everything I can and it's just a waiting game now. I was told I could have my splint made at James' but there would be a considerable wait and so decided to get that through my dentist at a cost of €130. I'm not sure how necessary the visit to the specialist is or how important the splint is in the treatment process (although I do feel I get good relief from wearing it) - others on this forum should be able to advise in relation to that. I am very glad it didn't cost €400!

btkm8unsl0w5r4

It depends on wheather you think these will help because with TMD your own attitudes are very improtant the successful threment. I would suggest you might be stressed and this can increase symptoms, so management of stress is very improtant. If paying 400 euro will increase your stress and you dont believe that treatment will work then treatment wont work. Its a very complex area.

The specialist will assess you first, so there wont be a big bill unless you decide to go for treatment with a splint.....usually depends on who you see.

macco66

Thanks to both of you. Susie564, I've also been recommended two names by my GP (aside from the specialist which my dentist has referred me to), one of which is in James', so I'd say it's the same one. He'd said there could be a 6 month wait though. Both of the names work out of the dental hospital also.

fitzgeme, you're 100% correct about the stress. Without doubt, it aggravates things. Unfortunately until recently, I'd been neglecting my stress reduction and relaxation technigues which I've to practice for college. Since I've started again, I can feel immediate help. From what I believe, a splint will only prevent more ware from bruxism or clenching and not reduce TMJ symptoms. Is this right?

Having been practicing TMJ stretching exercises for the past few days, things have loosened up a fair bit (nowhere near totally though). I'm awaiting delivery on that book that sudzs recommended and am already taking a magnesium supplement. To be honest, I'm not sure if a specialist is going to be able to provide a magical cure. If I can educate myself on self help techniques, then I'll gladly opt for that rather than a 400euro bill. I've also been in touch with my physio who has experience with treating TMJ. 400euro would pay for 8 visits to him.

The only thing that is still making me consider the specialist is that he may spot something, possibly with my bite or such, that may have been over looked by my dentist.