Do people really dream of council housing

Mrs OBumble

Just spotted this wee journalistic gem on http://www.galwaynews.ie/15797-no-new-social-housing-be-built-city-ten-years :

The dreams of 3,500 people on the city housing list are set to be dashed next week...

Do people really dream of being allocated a council house? I thought most who were on the waiting list were there simply so they could qualify for rent allowance.

Personally I'd see a council house (small, landlord who won't negotiate, rules can be changed at any time, more chance of dodgy neighbours then in other neighbourhoods) as a nightmare, not a dream.

Or have I got it all wrong?

inisboffin

Yes, it may have changed in the last ten years, but many people *did* want to get a house, and not just to qualify for rent allowance (though the housing list was a 'hoop' for that I believe)

Two friends of mine got council housing in the last ten years, they are older, and the sense of security it gave them was enormous. For whatever reasons, it gave them stability. A private landlord could and did 'sell' at any time, or use the clause that 'relatives were moving in' (the loophole you could use if you wanted to turf tenants, and rerent at a higher price to new people).

My two friends never had better neighbours than they do now, and have a better quality of life.

There are many stories of course, I just mentioned this one.

Mrs OBumble

inisboffin wrote: »

qualify for rent allowance (though the housing list was a 'hoop' for that I believe)

Still is. That's why the list has increases dramatically with the recession.

'Tis one of the things that makes me very cross about the welfare system in this country.

civis_liberalis

Would love a council house myself.

doubleglaze

inisboffin wrote: »

My two friends never had better neighbours than they do now, and have a better quality of life.

Having good neighbours, as opposed to bad neighbours, makes such a difference to quality of life that it would be an interesting exercise to attempt to put a monetary value on them!

I know everybody might say -probably rightly - that one cannot put a price on good neighbours, however I would say they might add in the region of up to €150,000 to the worth of one's house (assuming a standard semi-detached). Similarly, having bad neighbours can devalue the worth of one's house enormously.

doubleglaze

inisboffin wrote: »

My two friends never had better neighbours than they do now, and have a better quality of life.

Neighbourhoods with nice decent people of integrity living in them: now that's my definition of "Upper Class" neighbourhoods.:)

KittyeeTrix

Do ya know what?????????????????


I'm getting fcuking sick and tired of coming into the Galway section of Boards and hearing that because I grew up in a council house in the Westside and went to the Pres that I am in some way a knacker or an undesirable. It's becoming a weekly occurrence here.:mad::(:o

snubbleste

Hey nobody said that fluffyorganic

Das Kitty

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

Do ya know what?????????????????


I'm getting fcuking sick and tired of coming into the Galway section of Boards and hearing that because I grew up in a council house in the Westside and went to the Pres that I am in some way a knacker or an undesirable. It's becoming a weekly occurrence here.:mad::(:o

Here sure I grew up in Mervue, I've been getting it my whole life. Don't worry about it fluffy.

FWIW Our house was a council house, my parents were offered either east or west side of the city and my Mam knew someone in Innishannagh at the time and warned her against it do she put down east and was given social housing in Mervue. There was a very strong sense of community on our road, everyone was in the same boat and looked out for each other. Sure a lot of people were rough around the edges but you get that.

At the time for my mam it was a dream come true alright, she was living with her mother in law!

There are still a lot of people who getting a council house would be heaven for. Renting in this country is a pain in the ass you can never feel truly settled IMO. A lot of landlords want their places to look the exact same as when you moved in and don't take into account normal wear and tear. Our last one left us hanging 2 months after we asked him could we repaint one of the rooms for the baby. We were even painting it the same colour and paying for it (his own kids had drawn on the walls). Wish it was more like other places where you only rent the house and accumulate your own stuff over time.

Anyway, I think council houses are a godsend for a lot of people.

I don't understand why there is a waiting list with hundreds, if not thousands, of houses and apartments sitting empty around the country.

dafunk

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't understand why there is a waiting list with hundreds, if not thousands, of houses and apartments sitting empty around the country.

Because that would be a simple and cost effective way of dealing with things and unfortunately this country is being run by corrupt, ignorant idiots who seem to want the people of this country to suffer rather than make a single sensible decision.

I can see well why someone would want a council house, a frien of mine who is a single mum got one about two years ago, she was only on the list for seven years. She's never been so happy, renting was really unsettling for her daughter as it was during the boom times and they'd only ever be somewhere for a year and the landlord would increase the rent and they'd have to move house again. Also, she could never afford somewhere that was very suitable for a kid. This was in Dublin btw but the point is still relevant here I think.

dafunk

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

Do ya know what?????????????????


I'm getting fcuking sick and tired of coming into the Galway section of Boards and hearing that because I grew up in a council house in the Westside and went to the Pres that I am in some way a knacker or an undesirable. It's becoming a weekly occurrence here.:mad::(:o

I think you've misunderstood the points of this thread.

inisboffin

You're right fluffyorganic, growing up in a council house does not automatically mean undesirable. By a similar (but not the same) token, can we avoid bandying about the word 'knacker'? I see that a lot on boards too in the same sentence as undesirable etc.

mikom

inisboffin wrote: »

can we avoid bandying about the word 'knacker'? I see that a lot on boards too in the same sentence as undesirable etc.

Knackers are now desirable?
Maybe if you have a dead animal to get rid of............

kraggy

Can someone explain to me why there is council housing to this day?

Why should people be entitled to a house? Why not give people rent allowance and let them find their own accommodation like I had to do when I was on Unemployment Benefit?

Who exactly gets the right to a house? And why don't they have to work and pay their own rent in full like anyone else?

inisboffin

kraggy wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why there is council housing to this day?

Why should people be entitled to a house? Why not give people rent allowance and let them find their own accommodation like I had to do when I was on Unemployment Benefit?

Who exactly gets the right to a house? And why don't they have to work and pay their own rent in full like anyone else?

I may be wrong, but I believe you still have to pay rent (or pay via rent allowance). One huge difference is that it is a more long term thing. Years down the line you would get first crack at buying your house from the Council.
In other words, when you move into it, there's a better chance you'd be there for a while, so you'd feel more stable.

I think anyone on unemployment can get offered a house, but there is a 'priority' bumping I think for those with disability, elderly, with young kids, etc.

dafunk

kraggy wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why there is council housing to this day?

Why should people be entitled to a house? Why not give people rent allowance and let them find their own accommodation like I had to do when I was on Unemployment Benefit?

Who exactly gets the right to a house? And why don't they have to work and pay their own rent in full like anyone else?

You do pay rent on a council house to the best of my knowledge.

I think some people definitely take advantage and don't deserve it but there are plenty of people out there who would like to be able to pay their own way but are perhaps in a situation where they have too many dependents, i.e. a single mother or a family with kids where either the mother or father requires care so the other parent needs to look after them and hence can't work etc.

I have always thought the government would be better off to provide a grant to single parents towards their childcare so they could work rather than giving them welfare. I've met plenty of single mums who would love to be out working but financially can't afford to do it with the childcare costs, result: sitting on the dole and applying for council housing. The government would be better off to pay their childcare for them, allowing them to work, pay tax and be more financially independent, it would cost the taxpayer less as well.

inisboffin

inisboffin wrote: »

You're right fluffyorganic, growing up in a council house does not automatically mean undesirable. By a similar (but not the same) token, can we avoid bandying about the word 'knacker'? I see that a lot on boards too in the same sentence as undesirable etc.

It's hypocritical to say the least.

Xiney

doubleglaze wrote: »

Having good neighbours, as opposed to bad neighbours, makes such a difference to quality of life that it would be an interesting exercise to attempt to put a monetary value on them!

I know everybody might say -probably rightly - that one cannot put a price on good neighbours, however I would say they might add in the region of up to €150,000 to the worth of one's house (assuming a standard semi-detached). Similarly, having bad neighbours can devalue the worth of one's house enormously.

From a thread in the Accomodation & Property Forum.

You'd pretty much have to PAY me to buy this thing: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/euro45000-price-a-steal-but-wayne-dundons-next-door-2399458.html?start=1

Latchy

mikom wrote: »

Knackers are now desirable?
Maybe if you have a dead animal to get rid of............

Swinging decapitated animals around is the most disgusting thing to do ...to say the least

KittyeeTrix

inisboffin wrote: »

You're right fluffyorganic, growing up in a council house does not automatically mean undesirable. By a similar (but not the same) token, can we avoid bandying about the word 'knacker'? I see that a lot on boards too in the same sentence as undesirable etc.

I only used the term "knacker" as it was referred to that the Pres school was knackery in a thread earlier in the week.......Thought it was bang out of order myself as well:(

KittyeeTrix

rarnes1 wrote: »

It's hypocritical to say the least.

Look in the thread on Secondary schools for girls and you will see where I was coming from!!

Probably a little over sensitive on the issue at the moment so sorry.......

the_syco

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't understand why there is a waiting list with hundreds, if not thousands, of houses and apartments sitting empty around the country.

Because most of them are either:
A) not finished
without anything nearby (such as shops of schools)
C) both of the above

If a single person (lets say a fit white male, for arguments sake), and a married couple with a kid went for a council house at the same time, the "family unit" would be in line before the single. In a few years, the kid may need to goto school. But if the estate is not anywhere near schools, shops, or anything else, putting a family (who may not have a car) into it would be pretty dumb, esp if there was no transport infrastructure nearby that would allow them to get into their local village or city to work.

Mrs OBumble

inisboffin wrote: »

I think anyone on unemployment can get offered a house.

Not necessarily. If they've owned a house before, then unless the bank foreclosed on the mortgage (which the courts here don't allow very often), they're not eligible for council housing, which means they're not eligible for rent-allowance either.

If you think too hard about what could go wrong (get sick long term, can't work, can't pay, but can't get support either ... ) it really puts you off the idea of buying.

mikemac

Bit a nostalgic video here.

I'm sure most of ye have seen it before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJw1O46RiOI

You'll hear one lady very unhappy that she was allocated a flat but others were given houses.
"I don't see how I'm benefitting"

Mrs OBumble

kraggy wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why there is council housing to this day?

Why should people be entitled to a house? Why not give people rent allowance and let them find their own accommodation like I had to do when I was on Unemployment Benefit?

Who exactly gets the right to a house? And why don't they have to work and pay their own rent in full like anyone else?

Every society has some people who aren't able to look after themselves, due to illness, poor education, plain bad luck (nb I'm including alcohol-addiction as mental illness, and criminal tendancies as poor education). In a civilised society, most people want these folks housed, clothed and fed, either because they believe in their intrinsic worth as people, or because they know it keeps the crime rate down.

But from what I can see, council housing here is viewed as a permanent solution, rather than temporary assistance until you can get back on your own two feet and over your bad luck. While this builds strong neighbourhoods ("all in this together"), I'm not sure that it builds resilient people overall.

I found the original article particular amusing because the housing list has grown hugely with the recession, but only because anyone who wants rent-allowance has to go on it. My guess that most of the new additions would be dreaming of a job, and thus being able to pay their own rent, rather than a council house.

ArtSmart

JustMary wrote: »

Do people really dream of being allocated a council house?

of course. and food. and warmth.
but then, some people a a little crazy.

Mary, do you really think it's an aspiration? Really?

dollybird2

Thanks for the link feelingstressed. Brought back memories of my childhood seeing the flats.

I do think that the housing allocated by the Council in Galway is superior to that in other cities that I am aware of. I have a friend in Dublin living in a high rise flat in D7 area and the crap that goes on there is horrific.

The stupidity of the scheme is that you have to join the list in order to get rent allowance, as JustMary already outlined. This is ridiculous and causes the figures reported in the media to have shock value in their articles with year lists etc. I spent some time working in the Housing Dept of a City Council (not Galway) and for one house you could go through 20 applicants as most had joined for this purpose and did not want a Council House. (only going back 3 years here).

At this stage I would love my own house, Council or privately owned. I don't qualify for the Council list, but if offered one in the morning i would take it. Long term security of residence is priceless in my rental experience.

mikemac

dollybird2 wrote: »

I spent some time working in the Housing Dept of a City Council (not Galway) and for one house you could go through 20 applicants as most had joined for this purpose and did not want a Council House. (only going back 3 years here).

Out of interest and you don't have to say where you were working.

Your hear a lot about TD's and councillors having influence and getting people further up the list. Skipping the queue so to speak.

Does that actually happen? Or a myth?

KittyeeTrix

Thanks for understanding Inisboffin:)
I'm not usually a gripey auld wan but posts got the better of me this week:(

dolphin city

they could release all the boarded up properties and empty properties in the city and offer them to people on the waiting lists. They can get rent in for these houses then instead of them sitting idle.

That is unless Niall Mc Neilis brainwave comes to pass - anyone read his piece in the paper last week- he would like all these properties to go to the asylum seekers, because they are "bored" looking at the same four walls in the places they are in now in Galway.

Aerohead

I have friends living in a very nice non Council estate and I can assure you they want out due to the neighbours trouble is they cant afford to get out so they are stuck there, you will get bad neighbours in any estate in fact some of the best people in Galway came from Council estates.

Xiney

One of the major problems of moving in the entire housing list into empty properties is that it creates a homogenous society of "have nots": ballymun flats all over again.

dolphin city

agreed xiney

you get good and bad everywhere - people who came from council estates are the same as everyone else but were tended to be looked down on because of the area which they came from - a completely narrowminded view of course born out of ignorence. But it did and does happen.

they did have an "law" that meant that the social housing had to be integrated with the "regulars housing" giving part of each estate over for this purpose, but at the time when this was agreed, they also invented a loophole for developers to give money to the govt instead of assigning some of their houses to social/affordable,therefore releasing them of the burden.

don't know about anywhere else but then the galway council proceeded to build "ghetto style housing" and charge exhorbitant amounts for them on the affordable housing section which I think people must have refused as they are now for sale on the open market to try and get rid.

Mrs OBumble

dolphin city wrote: »

they could release all the boarded up properties and empty properties in the city and offer them to people on the waiting lists. They can get rent in for these houses then instead of them sitting idle.

I wonder how much it would cost to fix them up, and whether the problems that caused them to get boarded up in the first place might just recurr????

dolphin city wrote: »

That is unless Niall Mc Neilis brainwave comes to pass - anyone read his piece in the paper last week- he would like all these properties to go to the asylum seekers, because they are "bored" looking at the same four walls in the places they are in now in Galway.

This is totally off topic, but I can't help but observe that the way that RoI treats asylum-seekers is totally inhumane, and probably breaks international treaties. You have families including pre-school children living back-packer hostel style, for years, alongside people with serious mental health issues due to the experiences they've had. Four washing machines between 300 people - you do the maths. Etc.

The chances of another Murphy/Ryan style report in 20/40 years are enormous.

...

Now, returning discussion to the topic at hand. Thank you dollybird for giving some indications of the proportions (1 in 20) who do actually want a council house.

mikom

JustMary wrote: »

This is totally off topic, but I can't help but observe that the way that RoI treats asylum-seekers is totally inhumane, and probably breaks international treaties. You have families including pre-school children living back-packer hostel style, for years, alongside people with serious mental health issues due to the experiences they've had. Four washing machines between 300 people - you do the maths. Etc.

Yeah, much worse than where they came from....

Fuinseog

JustMary wrote: »

Just spotted this wee journalistic gem on http://www.galwaynews.ie/15797-no-new-social-housing-be-built-city-ten-years :



Do people really dream of being allocated a council house? I thought most who were on the waiting list were there simply so they could qualify for rent allowance.

Personally I'd see a council house (small, landlord who won't negotiate, rules can be changed at any time, more chance of dodgy neighbours then in other neighbourhoods) as a nightmare, not a dream.

Or have I got it all wrong?

it carries a certain stigma here in ireland, but i know its cherished in other countries.

snubbleste

JustMary wrote: »

This is totally off topic, but I can't help but observe that the way that RoI treats asylum-seekers is totally inhumane, and probably breaks international treaties. You have families including pre-school children living back-packer hostel style, for years, alongside people with serious mental health issues due to the experiences they've had. Four washing machines between 300 people - you do the maths.

They get shelter, food, education, entertainment, freedom and €19 per week..for free.
I have to pay for all those things!

mikom

snubbleste wrote: »

They get shelter, food, education, entertainment, freedom and €19 per week..for free.
I have to pay for all those things!

I can see you having another Murphy/Ryan style report in 20/40 years snubbleste.

kraggy

Why do we have asylum seekers anyway?

Are their applications being processed still? They can't work if they're asylum seekers, so we spend millions housing/feeding/schooling them.

All well and good in the good times, but how about now? I realise we can't ship them off again, but have the government put a stop to others coming in?

If not, they should. Then when we are in a financially stable condition again we can help some more of them out, but in the meantime, I say close the doors.

Anyone know how it works?

magentas

kraggy wrote: »

Why do we have asylum seekers anyway?

Are their applications being processed still? They can't work if they're asylum seekers, so we spend millions housing/feeding/schooling them.

All well and good in the good times, but how about now? I realise we can't ship them off again, but have the government put a stop to others coming in?

If not, they should. Then when we are in a financially stable condition again we can help some more of them out, but in the meantime, I say close the doors.

Anyone know how it works?

recently read an article about an asylum seeker who spat in the face of a pregnant manager in argos
(can't find link but was in indo or advertiser)
the report said he had been living in Ireland for 3yrs but could not work

what is the long-term plan for asylum seekers?
surely what the government are doing now (taking them in, giving them accommodation supplying education food etc.) is only temporary?

surely this guy after living here for 3yrs wasn't still waiting on his application to be processed???

inisboffin

magentas wrote: »

r

surely this guy after living here for 3yrs wasn't still waiting on his application to be processed???

I'd say it's possible. I have non EU friends who are going through various immigration processes including Residency, Citizenship, Employee permit (all being work eligible) and Residency without work ability (living here but not getting income from here necessarily - ie using savings or having an overseas business). Citizenship waiting list is at least 5 years I think.

Surely they could grant asylum seekers a shorter term work permit (not much use in this economy though) and review it.

magentas

Why can't people going down the private sale route?
Yes I know that some people have no option and some people genuinely need the help but I know of a lot of people that never really aspired to actually buying their own home...the council house was the only thing in their heads

These are the same kind of people that never had a job during the boom years...the mentality of "why work when I can get money for nothing"
no sense of achievement IMO

Of the 9 women I know that are living rent-free because they are "single mothers" only 1 of them actually is a single mother that doesn't have her OH living in with her
People like this are, in essence, stealing taxpayers money and making life harder for the people that genuinely need assistance (in terms of waiting list times etc)

If I were to go on the dole I would receive no financial assistance from government
I know people who reckon that they'd be better off financially if they left their jobs because of what they would receive in state benefits

Council housing is fine for people that genuinely need it but there are so many people abusing the system it's not even funny:mad:

the_syco

magentas wrote: »

Of the 9 women I know that are living rent-free because they are "single mothers" only 1 of them actually is a single mother that doesn't have her OH living in with her
People like this are, in essence, stealing taxpayers money and making life harder for the people that genuinely need assistance (in terms of waiting list times etc)

<snip>

:mad:

If you feel this way, report them.

Mrs OBumble

snubbleste wrote: »

They get shelter, food, education, entertainment, freedom and €19 per week..for free.
I have to pay for all those things!

How long have you lived in a shared room in a back-packer hostel? My limit was three months, after which I was very, very happy to score a decent job and therefore a flat of my own. And I didn't have pre-school children to keep entertained.

Entertainment and freedom? Ahh, no. They have to live where directed, eat dinner at the time directed, wash their clothes at the time directed, etc.

FWIW, most refugees are in camps closer to where they came from. Asylum seekers are folks who've made it into the country before claiming asylum. Turning off the tap is kinda hard, because by definition, these folks make it in here before we know that they're claimin asylum.

magentas

the_syco wrote: »

If you feel this way, report them.

I don't have the right to turn someones world upsidedown by reporting them for something like this
It just makes me sad and angry that people choose to live like this
having to live a lie and watching your back just to get something for free
what kind of example are they setting for their children?

sorry I'll stop ranting now:rolleyes:

ArtSmart

magentas wrote: »

Why can't people going down the private sale route?
Yes I know that some people have no option and some people genuinely need the help but I know of a lot of people that never really aspired to actually buying their own home...the council house was the only thing in their heads

These are the same kind of people that never had a job during the boom years...the mentality of "why work when I can get money for nothing"
no sense of achievement IMO

Of the 9 women I know that are living rent-free because they are "single mothers" only 1 of them actually is a single mother that doesn't have her OH living in with her
People like this are, in essence, stealing taxpayers money and making life harder for the people that genuinely need assistance (in terms of waiting list times etc)

If I were to go on the dole I would receive no financial assistance from government
I know people who reckon that they'd be better off financially if they left their jobs because of what they would receive in state benefits

Council housing is fine for people that genuinely need it but there are so many people abusing the system it's not even funny

magentas wrote: »

sorry I'll stop ranting now:rolleyes:

Really? Ok then.

dollybird2

feelingstressed wrote: »

Out of interest and you don't have to say where you were working.

Your hear a lot about TD's and councillors having influence and getting people further up the list. Skipping the queue so to speak.

Does that actually happen? Or a myth?

It's a few years back now when I was a student. There was a lot of councillors etc who promised the moon sun and stars to people on the list. They would make declarations to people and publicly claim to help people move up the list but they were really just waxing lyrical and didn't have any influence over the list.

The only way one could move up the list was if they were prioritised by the Dept depending on their personal circumstances - e.g disabled people.

Tbh my time spent there made me very cynical about public officials but did instill in me respect for the lower grade public servants who work on the front line and take the abuse.

Dr McManus

magentas wrote: »

recently read an article about an asylum seeker who spat in the face of a pregnant manager in argos
(can't find link but was in indo or advertiser)
the report said he had been living in Ireland for 3yrs but could not work

what is the long-term plan for asylum seekers?
surely what the government are doing now (taking them in, giving them accommodation supplying education food etc.) is only temporary?

surely this guy after living here for 3yrs wasn't still waiting on his application to be processed???

The man you refer to was Romanian.
Romania is part of the EU.
EU citizens are not asylum seekers.
The man you refer to chose not to avail of the services offered, and decided to shoplift as a source of income.
The long term plan for asylum seekers is to assess their need, and eligibility, then either grant them asylum; or deport them to their country of origin.
There are no plans to change this process.