Train leaving early - aaaaagggh!!!

amdublin

Okay so I've given up and have begun to accept IE trains departing late. Plus sitting outside Connolly waiting for platforms so arriving later to the ETA in the timetables.

But this is a new one!
The train I get every morning: three times in the last 4 weeks I have walked into the station as it pulls away one minute early.

The frustration of it all is killing me!!! I have complained via their website, each time asking for a phone call and instead I get a stupid automatic email saying my "feedback" has been sent to the appropriate dept. It's not feedback!!! It's a [EMAIL="blo@ody"]blo@ody[/EMAIL] Complaint!!!!

I swear it's giving me high blood pressure! :mad: I am still mad from it happening yesterday. Not mention that after my train left one min early, the next one arrived two mins late!!!

When I (eventually) got on a train I noticed in the metro letters section there were two letters complaining about IE services - one of them commented it is a bad state of affairs when you have to write a letter of complain to IE via a newspaper because their own complaints department seems to consist of a bin - so true!!!

Anyone ever get to talk to anyone in IE or get a response of any kind??!!!

Okay I need to stop ranting cos I feel the rage building up in me even more

Saaron

Surely you should be there a while before the train leaves anyway....

The train leaving one minute before departure time isn't something you can really complain about.

Also, it leaving roughly 2 minutes late isn't THAT bad either..

If it were me I'd be there at least 10-15 minutes before departure time just so I know i'll be on time if it leaves early.

efb

You are required to be at the station 10 min prior to departure

ctrl-alt-delete

Never happened me with a train, but a few times with a dublin bus.
When I rang up to ask where the bus was, I was told it left early as the traffic was bad.
The guy on the phone said I,d be angry if it was late too, there was no winning for them!
I just had to ask him where the timetables just so we knew if a bus was early or late?

amdublin

efb wrote: »

You are required to be at the station 10 min prior to departure

Exsqueeze me!

Seriously?!!!!

No seriously. I have never heard anything like this before. Is there somewhere this is documented? I'm not getting a plane or anything. I have my ticket. I don't need to be checked in or anything. Why would I need to be at the station 10 min prior to departure

amdublin

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

When I rang up to ask where the bus was, I was told it left early as the traffic was bad.
The guy on the phone said I,d be angry if it was late too, there was no winning for them!

But there is winning! Just leave at the right time!

Like personally, if I was waiting for a bus and it was late and I rang Dublin Bus and was told it is late due to be bad traffic I would be like well they can't control that, fair enough.

If I was told yeah that bus won't be coming along to you cos it left early so therefore you have missed it I would be like aaaaaaaagggghhhhh!!!!

efb

Yes see the Irish rail charter

amdublin

Saaron wrote: »

Surely you should be there a while before the train leaves anyway....

The train leaving one minute before departure time isn't something you can really complain about.

Also, it leaving roughly 2 minutes late isn't THAT bad either..

If it were me I'd be there at least 10-15 minutes before departure time just so I know i'll be on time if it leaves early.

You won't be on time! You'll be early.

Which I was btw! I was walking into the station one minute before it was due to depart. I was early!

Why should we not complain about it? Myself and a lady missed the train because it left early. The time before that it was myself and fella.

Why would a train leave early?! Just leave at the scheduled timetable time: People read the train timetable and arrive for that train. One does not expect it to leave early!

amdublin

efb wrote: »

Yes see the Irish rail charter

Just checking it now. Haven't seen anything yet about the ten min departure thing but this fairly jumped out at me:

"No train will leave a station earlier than advertised in the timetable"

efb

One minute on who's watch?

amdublin

efb wrote: »

You are required to be at the station 10 min prior to departure

efb wrote: »

Yes see the Irish rail charter

http://www.irishrail.ie/home/passenger_charter.asp#1

Nil in the charter as far as I can see about ten minutes etc etc
(But, as mentioned already, this statement does interest me: No train will leave a station earlier than advertised in the timetable)


For intercity trains they do mention you should be there 20 mins before...
I am not on an intercity, just a commuter train. (Assume the intercity is to allow people board with luggage etc)

Saaron

amdublin wrote: »

You won't be on time! You'll be early.

Which I was btw! I was walking into the station one minute before it was due to depart. I was early!

Why should we not complain about it? Myself and a lady missed the train because it left early. The time before that it was myself and fella.

Why would a train leave early?! Just leave at the scheduled timetable time: People read the train timetable and arrive for that train. One does not expect it to leave early!

But, 1 minute early..... Come on!
Surely it's common sense to be there somewhat before the departure time to ensure you make the train.

1 minute before departure time is really chancing it. Don't most people board before departure time anyway, so wouldn't you want to be there slightly early so you can get a seat etc.

Anytime I'm with people and we're getting the train we go early just so we can get a seat, and not worry about missing it.

Just because it's left late before, it doesn't mean you can complain about it leaving 1 silly minute earlier. I don't think it means you leave it 'till the last minute either.

Oh I don't know anymore.

amdublin

efb wrote: »

One minute on who's watch?

- Mine.
- The lady who also missed the train.
- The clock in the ticket office.
- The digital time on the ticket gate
- The girl in the ticket office's watch also.
(Who agreed yeah they don't answer complaints when I said I had complained twice already. I asked her would she maybe be able to log a complaint at her end and she said "they don't answer ours either"!!!!)

amdublin

Saaron wrote: »

But, 1 minute early..... Come on!
Surely it's common sense to be there somewhat before the departure time to ensure you make the train.
.

I was there somewhat before the departure time! One minute!

Guys we don't live in New York. My station and platform is very small. I get a late train (just after nine) there are a tiny tiny amount of people on the platform.

I appreciate what you are saying but there is absolutely no physical need to be in the station more than a minute early for a train that is scheduled to go one minute later.

efb

The 10 Minute rule has always stood me in good stead.

Anyway the train drivers watch must have been a minute fast so I'd put your watch in synch with his to avoid this happening in the future.

That or write to IE/boards/Joe Duffy and let me know which works out for you!

amdublin

x

efb wrote: »

That or write to IE/boards/Joe Duffy and let me know which works out for you!

Think it's been proven that going to IE doesn't work.

There's always the complaints dept c/o the metro as well:

amdublin wrote: »

I noticed in the metro letters section there were two letters complaining about IE services - one of them commented it is a bad state of affairs when you have to write a letter of complain to IE via a newspaper because their own complaints department seems to consist of a bin - so true!!!

efb

Exactly! Put your watch forward 1 min, and relax!

AlekSmart

All this timekeeping stuff is interesting in iteslf.

Unlike Swiss Railways and their dedicated timepieces,we tend to rely on the driver being in possession of an accurtate watch.

I regularly attempt a bit of Time Banditry with my passengers by asking for the correct Exact time by their watches....and It would be rare to get 3 people together whose watches agreed on the time.....:rolleyes:

amdublin

AlekSmart wrote: »

I regularly attempt a bit of Time Banditry with my passengers by asking for the correct Exact time by their watches....and It would be rare to get 3 people together whose watches agreed on the time.....:rolleyes:

Well I got five yesterday

amdublin wrote: »

- Mine.
- The lady who also missed the train.
- The clock in the ticket office.
- The digital time on the ticket gate
- The girl in the ticket office's watch also.
(Who agreed yeah they don't answer complaints when I said I had complained twice already. I asked her would she maybe be able to log a complaint at her end and she said "they don't answer ours either"!!!!)

efb

I'd say they were just agreeing with you for an easy life.

amdublin

efb wrote: »

I'd say they were just agreeing with you for an easy life.

Yep I'd say so. Indicative of the way they deal with passengers concerns.

steamengine

Swiss trains do run exactly on time according to a Swiss acquaintance of mine who has lived in Ireland for many years. On balance though he prefers the easy going Irish attitude towards time and life in general, regards it as part of our native charm, and on balance prefers living here than in Switzerland.

amdublin

steamengine wrote: »

Swiss trains do run exactly on time according to a Swiss acquaintance of mine who has lived in Ireland for many years. On balance though he prefers the easy going Irish attitude towards time and life in general, regards it as part of our native charm, and on balance prefers living here than in Switzerland.

Yes and I would agree with him. Hey, I'm pretty lenient towards life in general and time (at times) myself. But unfortunately my work is not!

Is it too much to ask that we can be easygoing and charming but our trains run as scheduled! (Or can you not have one if you have the other etc etc)

steamengine

amdublin wrote: »

Yes and I would agree with him. Hey, I'm pretty lenient towards life in general and time (at times) myself. But unfortunately my work is not!

Is it too much to ask that we can be easygoing and charming but our trains run as scheduled! (Or can you not have one if you have the other etc etc)

Well I suppose we could strive towards that goal, realise we may never precisely emulate the Swiss, but reach an acceptable level of punctuality - give or take a few minutes !

mikemac

What's your rush OP, don't stress

We'll be there we when get there

Ham'nd'egger

The times listed on the timetable is generally the time of departure only so it's in your interest, OP, to be on the platform a few minutes prior to that listed on the timetable in order to make your train. If it's a DART or commuter train stopping at a through station such as Pearse or Kilester or Ashtown the train entering the station has clearance to proceed away once the passengers are on/off and the driver or a stationmaster on the platform says it's safe to move away so these times are sharply adhered to.

Diddler1977

Saaron wrote: »

Surely you should be there a while before the train leaves anyway....

The train leaving one minute before departure time isn't something you can really complain about.

.

Is this is a wind up? A train should leave at its departure time. Not a minute earlier, not a minute later.

What's the point of having a timetable if it is just going to depart whenever?

Diddler1977

efb wrote: »

The 10 Minute rule has always stood me in good stead.

!

Did you make up this 10 minute rule yourself?

Obviously the OP likes to get to the station one munute before the train is due to depart. I see nothing wrong with this. The train should depart at the time it says on the timetable.

3DataModem

amdublin wrote: »

I appreciate what you are saying but there is absolutely no physical need to be in the station more than a minute early for a train that is scheduled to go one minute later.

Yes there is. Sometimes they go early.

kippy

Ah seriously.
1 minute either side of the advertised departure is more than allowable, especially taking into account time measurements across the various people who need to be aware of a synchronised time.

loyatemu

I wouldn't complain about a train leaving 1 minute late - thats a pretty good resuly by IE's standards. And whilst I wouldn't bother complaining about a train leaving 1 minute early, by rights they should not leave early.

taking into account time measurements across the various people who need to be aware of a synchronised time.

No-one needs to synchronise any watches - there is a clock on the information displays on the platform that is visible to the driver and the platform staff and and that's the clock they should be referring to - it shouldn't depart until the specified time, its hardly rocket science.

AlekSmart

There is a clock on the information displays on the platform that is visible to the driver and the platform staff and and that's the clock they should be referring to

And maybe...just maybe...the OP`s timepiece was not synchronized with the visible clock..whilst the Driver`s was.?

kippy

loyatemu wrote: »

I wouldn't complain about a train leaving 1 minute late - thats a pretty good resuly by IE's standards. And whilst I wouldn't bother complaining about a train leaving 1 minute early, by rights they should not leave early.



No-one needs to synchronise any watches - there is a clock on the information displays on the platform that is visible to the driver and the platform staff and and that's the clock they should be referring to - it shouldn't depart until the specified time, its hardly rocket science.

So one LCD clock in the station is visible to all drivers and passengers?
You arent serious are you?

Oliver1985

Did you set your clock back to early? :D:D:D:D:D:D

foggy_lad

i got the train from cork to dublin yesterday at 5.30 and it was only 7minutes late leaving cork because they forgot about putting diesel in the tank:D and instead of making up the time it lost time despite lifting of speed restrictions and despite being late made an unscheduled stop in portarlington.

irish rail have no sense of time or duty.

efb

Diddler1977 wrote: »

Did you make up this 10 minute rule yourself?

Obviously the OP likes to get to the station one munute before the train is due to depart. I see nothing wrong with this. The train should depart at the time it says on the timetable.

It's on the station in tullamore and port and Wexford I didn't make it up!

And from departure points, gates close 2 min prior to departure, but sure im making that one up too!!!!

amdublin

efb wrote: »

It's on the station in tullamore and port and Wexford I didn't make it up!

And from departure points, gates close 2 min prior to departure, but sure im making that one up too!!!!

Not to say your are making it up but you had me looking for it in the charter and it wasn't there

Anyhoo I appreciate the above for intercitys etc. I am on a little 'ol commuter train at a little station with a little platform.

From station to platform it takes aprox 3 seconds to board the train. I was there one minute EARLY which is way more time needed to board the train - if it does not depart before it's scheduled time (I can't actually fathom how people think is acceptable to leave before the scheduled time; why bother with a timetable at all sure?!

kippy

amdublin wrote: »

Not to say your are making it up but had me looking for it in the charter and it wasn't there

Anyhoo I appreciate the above for intercitys etc. I am on a little 'ol commuter train at a little station with a little platform.

From station to platform it takes aprox 3 seconds to board the train. I was there one minute EARLY which is way more time needed to board the train - if it does not depart before it's scheduled time (I can't actually fathom how people think is acceptable to leave before the scheduled time; why bother with a timetable at all sure?!

Trying to make the point that perhaps everyone is not working off the same time.
When you are dealing with minutes those things happen. The driver cannot always see the clock in the station either.
Really I dont see where your problem is. 1 minute either side is completely acceptable in any sane persons mind.

amdublin

loyatemu wrote: »

I wouldn't complain about a train leaving 1 minute late - thats a pretty good resuly by IE's standards.

How is this a good result leaving two passengers behind at my station (me and the lady) and presumably one or two other passengers at every other station?!

:pac:

amdublin

kippy wrote: »

Really I dont see where your problem is. 1 minute either side is completely acceptable in any sane persons mind.

Oh right. What about 1 min 15 seconds? 2 min? Or 3 min?

Where is your cutoff that it becomes not okay?!

Personally for me, my cutoff is the timetable time.
It leaves late I would like to know the reason: leaves on the train (yes I know it sounds funny but this does cause problems!), signal failure, bad weather etc etc
If it leaves early, I am what the hell, like why would they do that?!!!!

kippy

amdublin wrote: »

If it leaves early, I am what the hell, like why would they do that?!!!!

The reason is NOT EVERYONES TIME PIECES SHOW THE EXACT SAME TIME.
It's been pointed out about 10 times on this thread.

Whats acceptable. Honestly I would say up to 5 minutes either side of the alloted departure time.

You really never know what time these people go off of.
This is not just an issue with IR and most of the time the issue is put down to timepieces and lack of synchronicity between them hence the reasons for any logical passenger to allow for this in their own timekeeping.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=4435.15

twowheelsonly

OP, What is the big problem with you leaving home a few minutes earlier to ensure that you will always be on time, regardless of what time the train goes at?
If I'm going to work I always aim to be at least ten minutes early
If I have an interview/business meeting I always aim to be at least 15-30 minutes early
Same if I have a medical appointment
Same if I'm going anywhere or doing anything.
If I do happen to be delayed I then know that I have a couple of minutes to play with.
If I'm late for any of these things then generally I tend to accept the blame myself.

As a matter of interest, if the train leaves a couple of minutes late and you're late for work do you then blame the Driver/IR as well? (i.e. - is he in a lose/lose situation?)

efb

OP I hope you put your watch back 59 mins this morn, its not GMT it's IRT!

Mike 1972

kippy wrote: »

The reason is NOT EVERYONES TIME PIECES SHOW THE EXACT SAME TIME.
It's been pointed out about 10 times on this thread.

In this day and age radio (or GPS) synchronised clocks/watches are pretty widespread and inexpensive you know.

kippy

Mike 1972 wrote: »

In this day and age radio (or GPS) synchronised clocks/watches are pretty widespread and inexpensive you know.

Have you read the post I linked too?

AlekSmart

(I can't actually fathom how people think is acceptable to leave before the scheduled time; why bother with a timetable at all sure?!)

I don`t see any of the respondents suggesting it`s acceptable to leave "sharp" at all.

What most of the realists appear to be suggesting is that unless you were standing on the footplate alongside the driver you have no idea of what time he/she was operating off.

From station to platform it takes aprox 3 seconds to board the train. I was there one minute EARLY which is way more time needed to board the train

We now appear to be even further along the timeline.

I would suggest that for normal everyday interaction counting time at an individual second level is somewhat unrealistic.

If this is taken to it`s conclusion we will soon have a contribution from HG Wells who`s lurking just outside the Boards.ie continuum.

In this day and age radio (or GPS) synchronised clocks/watches are pretty widespread and inexpensive you know.

Mike1972 is perhaps the the most level-headed respondent yet....Perhaps it is time for the State to consider enforcing a Universal Timepiece Requirement on everybody so that all these lost-minutes don`t go to waste and everybody acts in synchronicity ?

The only small drawback is that if even one single solitary citizen (Especially a Traindriver) fails to wear that Universal Timepiece then the entire principle falls ?

"At the signal it will be ......."

amdublin

kippy wrote: »

The reason is NOT EVERYONES TIME PIECES SHOW THE EXACT SAME TIME.
It's been pointed out about 10 times on this thread.

Whats acceptable. Honestly I would say up to 5 minutes either side of the alloted departure time.

You really never know what time these people go off of.
This is not just an issue with IR and most of the time the issue is put down to timepieces and lack of synchronicity between them hence the reasons for any logical passenger to allow for this in their own timekeeping.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=4435.15

Mike 1972 wrote: »

In this day and age radio (or GPS) synchronised clocks/watches are pretty widespread and inexpensive you know.

A good point from Mike.

My iphone set itself the hour back last night. Hmm wonder did it set correctly or did it only do 59 mins or did it do 61 mins. Ah sure you're probably thinking a minute either way is grand sure.

twowheelsonly wrote: »

As a matter of interest, if the train leaves a couple of minutes late and you're late for work do you then blame the Driver/IR as well? (i.e. - is he in a lose/lose situation?)

Nope. I would have thought that was obvious when I pointed out that I find the excuse "leaves on the track" a valid reason a train would be late or slow.

Diddler1977

kippy wrote: »

The reason is NOT EVERYONES TIME PIECES SHOW THE EXACT SAME TIME.
[URL="http://"][/URL]

The driver is the only one who really matters in this situation. All trains should be fitted with timepieces that show the CORRECT time.

The driver should then depart at the time it says on the timetable.

If the driver leaves at any time earlier then the timetable, there will be passengers left behind. This is not acceptable.

I can understand a train departing late due to certain circumstances but a train leaving early????? C,mon you can't justify that.

Diddler1977

AlekSmart wrote: »

I would suggest that for normal everyday interaction counting time at an individual second level is somewhat unrealistic.


The only small drawback is that if even one single solitary citizen (Especially a Traindriver) fails to wear that Universal Timepiece then the entire principle falls ?

I think you are missing the point.

The OP expects the train to depart at the timetabled time - using a timepiece that is correct.

The OP is not expecting the train to depart at what they figure is the correct time by their watch.

It was admitted by the staff member at the station that the train left early.

I can't believe posters actually think it is acceptable for the train to pull away early and leave passengers. There is no justification for it.

Trains should depart the station at the time on the timetable (unless delayed).

kippy

Diddler1977 wrote: »

The driver is the only one who really matters in this situation. All trains should be fitted with timepieces that show the CORRECT time.

The driver should then depart at the time it says on the timetable.

If the driver leaves at any time earlier then the timetable, there will be passengers left behind. This is not acceptable.

I can understand a train departing late due to certain circumstances but a train leaving early????? C,mon you can't justify that.

The correct time according to what - what do they reference this off? NTP? GPS?
Fair enough. Lets put expensive NTP timepieces into every train in the country for the sake of a small percentage of train journeys that leave the station within one minute of the advertised time.
I and many others have justified why trains could leave a few minutes early and indeed a few minutes late and have given perfectly reasonable methods around which a passenger can allow for these differences in time measurement.

amdublin

Diddler1977 wrote: »

The OP is not expecting the train to depart at what they figure is the correct time by their watch.

This is true!

When I saw the train pull away my initial thought was sh1t my phone must have the wrong time.

So I immediately checked the clock in the ticket office and the clock on the ticket gate and they showed same as mine.

And the ticket girl checked her watch and the lady there agreed hers was the same.

I would not straightaway expect the IE time to be same as mine (even though I assume my iphone is a Universal Timepiece etc?) but is it unrealistic/too much of me to expect the IE driver to be synchronised with the IE ticket office clock and the digital time on the IE ticket gate??