Halloween and Irish DPM

Evd-Burner

Hi everyone, I know this has come up a million and 1 times but its really pissing me off, I have seen several people the last few nights with Irish DPM on.

Just wondering has anyone else seen many other wearing it?
Do you think they are PDF/RDF or are they civillians who got there hands on the DPM?

Local-womanizer

Evd-Burner wrote: »

Hi everyone, I know this has come up a million and 1 times but its really pissing me off, I have seen several people the last few nights with Irish DPM on.

Just wondering has anyone else seen many other wearing it?
Do you think they are PDF/RDF or are they civillians who got there hands on the DPM?

Probably a mixture of all 3 tbh. A quick call to the Gardai would sort out the problem mind you,if failing the Gardai your local Barracks would be more than happy to deal with the issue.

Really annoys me too.

newby.204

can i ask why it bothers you? i can see why the gaurds have to deal with it its their job as its against the law, but why does it bother yee so much?

Evd-Burner

It's very unprofessional and give the RDF/PDF a bad name...

newby.204

your assuming the people wearing it are in the rdf/pdf and second i think we one of very few countries in the world who dont sell fatigues in surplus shops, due to paranoia over the troubles and people trying to rob armouries, ill admit an acceptable enough reason. but i dont see it as unprofessional at all, no different to dressing up in usmc gear or brit dpm

goldie fish

I shared a house with a bit.... er.. woman once, who asked to borrow my uniform for a halloween party. In spite of all her promises and begging(anything) I refused to give it to her.
She went dressed as hitler instead.

Very odd person.

Capt Blackadder

Saw someone out with an overseas shirt (the ones with the large flag on it). Apparently given to them by a friend who was overseas. It's unprofessional in the sense that the person who it was originally issued to was given it to mind and keep, and wear when authorised, and not let be used to bring the organisation into disrepute by someone else.

Mahatma coat

and you presume that these people are bringin yer Organisation a bad name Because????

Capt Blackadder

Because these people are f**k acting in a uniform that is instantly recognisable, and associated with the men and women of the DF. Some fella out walting it up in a club gets in a fight, suddenly everyone thinks this is a soldier out fighting and causing trouble. Doesn't look too good does it? Also the fact that by wearing the uniform out like that, they're breaking the law.

Available at: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1954/en/act/pub/0018/print.html

264.—(1) If any person (not being a member of the Defence Forces) wears, without permission granted by or on behalf of the Minister, any uniform of the Defence Forces or any colourable imitation thereof, such person shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding ten pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months.
[GA](2) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply in respect of the wearing of any uniform of the Defence Forces or any colourable imitation thereof in the course of a stage play or other dramatic representation or performance.
[GA](3) In this section the word "uniform" includes any distinctive part of a uniform.

Bringing contempt on uniform. 265.—(1) If any person wears any uniform of the Defence Forces or any dress, having the appearance of, or bearing any of the regimental or other distinctive marks of, any such uniform, in such a manner or in such circumstances as to be likely to bring contempt upon that uniform, such person shall be guilty of an offence under this subsection.
[GA](2) If any person employs any other person to wear any uniform of the Defence Forces or any dress, having the appearance of, or bearing any of the regimental or other distinctive marks of, any such uniform, in such a manner or in such circumstances as to be likely to bring contempt upon that uniform, such first-mentioned person shall be guilty of an offence under this subsection.
[GA](3) Any person who is guilty of an offence under subsection (1) or (2) of this section shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months.

Of course the fines have been updated to euro.

The bravo

Not a usually poster in this forum but follow it. Im an ex- RDF Cpl now member of AGS and was on duty last night took details of several people who had "borrowed" uniforms, dome in FULL uniform and will be contacting the Military Police in due course!! I think its an absolute disgrace to see people in Irish army/naval uniform and the people that lend them deserve punishment.

OS119

The bravo wrote: »

Not a usually poster in this forum but follow it. Im an ex- RDF Cpl now member of AGS and was on duty last night took details of several people who had "borrowed" uniforms, dome in FULL uniform and will be contacting the Military Police in due course!! I think its an absolute disgrace to see people in Irish army/naval uniform and the people that lend them deserve punishment.

tbh, i find this fixation utterly bizaare, i can see a practical reason why you would have a offence of impersonating a Soldier in the same way that you'd have an offence of impersonating a Police Officer - and for exactly the same reason - but that would be aimed at an individual who dressed fully and convincingly as a Soldier/Gardai and who then attempted to use that subterfuge for other ends. but this obsession with giving the faintest **** about some bloke wearing a pair of Irish DPM waterproof trousers on a building site just beats the hell out of me...

is Ireland the only country in the world - perhaps bar Saudi Arabia - that bans strippers dressed as uniformed public servants?

discus

goldie fish wrote: »

I shared a house with a bit.... er.. woman once, who asked to borrow my uniform for a halloween party. In spite of all her promises and begging(anything) I refused to give it to her.
She went dressed as hitler instead.

Very odd person.

Hopes she's not on boards...

Mahatma coat

OS119 wrote: »

tbh, i find this fixation utterly bizaare, i can see a practical reason why you would have a offence of impersonating a Soldier in the same way that you'd have an offence of impersonating a Police Officer - and for exactly the same reason - but that would be aimed at an individual who dressed fully and convincingly as a Soldier/Gardai and who then attempted to use that subterfuge for other ends. but this obsession with giving the faintest **** about some bloke wearing a pair of Irish DPM waterproof trousers on a building site just beats the hell out of me...

is Ireland the only country in the world - perhaps bar Saudi Arabia - that bans strippers dressed as uniformed public servants?

Thats what I was thinkin meself, anyone who wears the Uniform outside of their regular duties is a tool, like if someone went out in an FCA uniform for haloween replete with Beret and stupid toy gun, then that person is breakin the law, but wearin a Shirt with a Pair of jeans and a Jacket is not the same thing at all.

Capt Blackadder

From the DFR R5 from 2005.

Look at what I've under lined and put in bold. Wearing just the shirt and a pair of jeans is still a no no. This concerns serving members. Non serving persons, or civillians, fall under the piece of legislation I posted earlier.

Uniform – wearing of.

59. (1) Uniform shall be worn by members -

(a) when on military duty, and

(b) when proceeding to and from parades or other military duty.
(2) Uniform may be worn by members -

(a) when attending Church Services;

(b) when attending social functions promoted under State or official military auspices,
or promoted by recognised Welfare Committees of the Defence Forces;

(c) on such other occasions as may be permitted by -

(i) the General Officer Commanding the Formation or Flag Officer Commanding
the Naval Service in the case of officers, and
(ii) the Officer Commanding the Unit in the case of reservists.

Uniform - prohibition of wearing.

60. (1) Members shall not wear uniform outside the State, whether in the course of duty or not,
except where the members concerned -

(a) are serving on board a State ship or aircraft, or,

(b) have been granted prior permission by the Deputy Chief of Staff (Support), or
have been directed by the Deputy Chief of Staff (Support), to wear uniform.
(2) Uniform shall not be worn by members attending a political meeting.
(3) Uniform or any article shall not be worn by members on any occasion other than those
set out in subparagraph (1) of this paragraph or in the Administrative Instruction issued by the

Deputy Chief of Staff (Support) pursuant to the provisions of paragraph 59 of this Regulation.

Capt Blackadder

Sorry if I seem [EMAIL="an@l"]an@l[/EMAIL] about it. Not trying to cause trouble. Just laying it out as it is.

arybvtcw0eolkf

goldie fish wrote: »

She went dressed as hitler instead.

Very odd person.

Thats disgraceful, who'd wanna dress like a bleed'n Nazi!.

Manic Moran

There's a US politician in trouble for that right now. The guy's into re-enacting, and he wears German WWII.

I mean, someone has to play the opposition, I think it's a storm in a teacup.

Not too much camo out and about over here in our part of California, but you can always guarantee that there will be some kids dressed as 'soldiers'. (Couple of ghillie suits, mind). No issue with it here, everyone knows what the intent is, and hey, if someone 'wants to be' a soldier, who are we to say it's a bad thing? Encourage it!

NTM

petergfiffin

Armani Rhythmic Heater wrote: »

Thats disgraceful, who'd wanna dress like a bleed'n Nazi!.

Yeah...I mean it's not like she was a member of the Royal Family or anything...:D

OS119

Capt Blackadder wrote: »

Sorry if I seem [EMAIL="an@l"]an@l[/EMAIL] about it. Not trying to cause trouble. Just laying it out as it is.

i know what the law is - i'm just stumped by why you'd either have such a wide-ranging law, or why anyone would bother enforcing it, or why, regardless of the law, anyone would give a **** about it.

i'm sure Ireland has lots of laws that everyone - including the Gardai - ignore, and i'm sure no one gives it a seconds thought about any of them. so why either the legal or emotional interest in this one?

xflyer

Right I understand the rules and even the original, now practically obsolete, reason for the rules. But I still cannot understand the rather po faced reaction some of you have to them.

Look any of you can to to your local army surplus shop and outfit yourselves in British, German or American uniforms and head of to a fancy dress party. Or simply buy a good surplus jacket or trousers to wear on the building site. No one will take a blind bit of notice. But God forbid you wear an old Irish army trousers or a shirt.

It's all very different if someone is fully dressed pretending to be a serving member of the defence forces.

Sure it is illegal to wear any item of Irish uniform outside the parameters laid down. But there is such a thing as common sense. The majority of people caught by Bravo, that most diligent of cops were probably unaware of the law. No doubt they were surprised that such a law exists.

BTW Bravo, I wish to inform you that another miscreant can be found in Galway. He's a well known tramp, hangs out a lot at Spanish Arch, muttering to himself. But worst of all he wears an Irish DPM trousers. You might want inform your colleagues in Mill Street Station!

I want to confess too, as I'm writing this. I'm wearing my old beret. Come and get me!

cork2

YES! i made this point whilst out in cork last night. i am currently serving in the rdf and my blood boils watching these idiots falling around acting like muppets in uniform! then it got really bad i saw a guy in full dpm, face camo'd up and wearing webbing. now to top it all off there was a can of dutch gold in each ammo pouch of the webbing and he was wearing nike airmax. i mean like talk about a village missing its idiot! i know exactly which unit hes from and will be mentioning it the next time i meet his superiors as i will the two i saw from my own unit.

ddef

cork2 wrote: »

i saw a guy in full dpm, face camo'd up and wearing webbing. now to top it all off there was a can of dutch gold in each ammo pouch of the webbing

That is commitment to the cause right there.

Manic Moran

now to top it all off there was a can of dutch gold in each ammo pouch of the webbing

So? How do you think we figured out that the smoke grenade launchers on the tank make great beer coolers?

NTM

iceage

Do you know how difficult it is to fit a Smirnoff ice bottle into a safariland holster....takes practice that does.

Burnt

I am not a regular poster here; though i do lurk around abit, and I amn't much up on army custom or law so you'll have to bear with me.

How does reporting fellow members of your unit to the MP/PA for this sort
of thing go down; with the other soldiers in that unit? Does it effect how they
view or interact with that person doing the reporting, esprit de corps etc...

concussion

They mightn't bloody well do it again! Saw a few downtown all right but the one that really pissed me off was the idiot wearing full uniform including beret and badge.

BigDuffman

iceage wrote: »

Do you know how difficult it is to fit a Smirnoff ice bottle into a safariland holster....takes practice that does.

Smirnoff Ice ??? Ooooh Matron

NoQuarter

Lads I rarely post here, ex-pdf but I have to say this thread is ridiculous. Its halloween, get over it, everyone understands its just a laugh.

Talking about portraying the uniform in a bad light, if only the public knew half of what went on inside the barrack walls!!

And just to clarify, any other time of year i agree its a no-no, but for halloween, take a chill pill guys.

cork2 wrote: »

there was a can of dutch gold in each ammo pouch

My hero, I salute you!

discus

BigDuffman wrote: »

Smirnoff Ice ??? Ooooh Matron RAAAAAH

I'm telling ya, real men drink smirnoff ice!

Capt Blackadder

Someone was telling me that if you try, you can get 2 cans per ammo pouch.

m.j.w

NoQuarter wrote: »

Lads I rarely post here, ex-pdf but I have to say this thread is ridiculous. Its halloween, get over it, everyone understands its just a laugh.

Talking about portraying the uniform in a bad light, if only the public knew half of what went on inside the barrack walls!!

And just to clarify, any other time of year i agree its a no-no, but for halloween, take a chill pill guys.



My hero, I salute you!

People are sad it this is something that annoys them, im ex pdf and I wore my uniform out one halloween because I had no other costume. Some people in the army and the rdf just take it far to serious, get a life like. Like bloody women taking hissy fits over nothing!!!

dodgydes

I'm guessing it's ex-ers and civves that are wearing the DPm stuff, no serving member would disrespect his uniform in this fashion.

All the kit should be marked with a service number. Hint: look under the pocket flap.

And then, BAM! off to the digger with you.

m.j.w

dodgydes wrote: »

I'm guessing it's ex-ers and civves that are wearing the DPm stuff, no serving member would disrespect his uniform in this fashion.

All the kit should be marked with a service number. Hint: look under the pocket flap.

And then, BAM! off to the digger with you.

I was in the pdf when I did. When I was at oxegen I seen about 10 people in waterproof dpm's (A couple of sergeants and an officer included). Its just a piece of cloth, get over it. I went out for a few drinks and did nothing wrong, wheres the harm?

newby.204

dodgydes wrote: »

I'm guessing it's ex-ers and civves that are wearing the DPm stuff, no serving member would disrespect HIS uniform in this fashion.

All the kit should be marked with a service number. Hint: look under the pocket flap.

And then, BAM! off to the digger with you.

TO THE BOLD PART; em are you a serving member?? and what are you on about ITS A UNIFORM!!

TO THE CAPS PART; we do have hers serving too....

to anyone banging on about the uniform like its the holy grail your either just in or deluded to think that it represents somethin!! most civvies havnt a clue about the army and those that do have a relative in and know the score, grow a pair and get the fook over it ffs.,,,, you wouldnt be talkin soo much sh!!!t if a chap/girl dressed up as a legionaire would ya?

Local-womanizer

newby.204 wrote: »

you wouldnt be talkin soo much sh!!!t if a chap/girl dressed up as a legionaire would ya?

I would be impressed,have you seen their uniforms!

dodgydes

I just think the uniform does mean something to those in the RDF/PDF, but not in some kind of sacrosanct way. I don't think you would see a firefighter or a nurse wear their uniform to a Halloween party.

To others who wear DPM I say fair play to them

arybvtcw0eolkf

My own opinion is that on Halloween people who wear the army DPM's are doing so for a bit of craic and nothing else. I don't know a single member who finds it offensive.. The thoughts of it are more silly & stupid.

I couldn't even care less about airsofter's wearing it and making pretend they're soldiers for a day.

But I do take offence at guys selling gear to the likes of builders etc.

But halloween, yea its a night of craic & piss taking - get over it.

newby.204

Local-womanizer wrote: »

I would be impressed,have you seen their uniforms!

well yea but i was on a rant and it was just an example.... i would be impressed too

Poccington

m.j.w wrote: »

I was in the pdf when I did. When I was at oxegen I seen about 10 people in waterproof dpm's (A couple of sergeants and an officer included). Its just a piece of cloth, get over it. I went out for a few drinks and did nothing wrong, wheres the harm?

According to the Defence Act, you definitely did something wrong.

OS119

Poccington wrote: »

According to the Defence Act, you definitely did something wrong.

according to any of the Road Traffic Acts if you drive over the speed limit you so something wrong, yet nobody - including a good proportion of the Gardai - gives the faintest **** about it unless you tear the arse out of it.

you are required by law to have a TV licience, but a good proportion don't have one - nobody cares.

you can be successfully sued in court for leaving a tenancy early, yet almost nobody ever is - again, a law which everybody ignores.

so why does anyone care remotely about bits of Irish uniform being worn by the builder down the road, or the student at a fancy dress party?

lots of huffing and puffing on the thread, but nobody as yet said 'this grips my **** because....'

concussion

OS119 wrote: »

nobody as yet said 'this grips my **** because....'

This grips my **** because the Reserve have a terrible image, especially with regards drinking. People see this and think, 'another bloody FCA twat, all they do is go on the piss - tax free. I was in for 2 months and all we did was go drinking....blah blah blah'

OS119

concussion wrote: »

This grips my **** because the Reserve have a terrible image, especially with regards drinking. People see this and think, 'another bloody FCA twat, all they do is go on the piss - tax free. I was in for 2 months and all we did was go drinking....blah blah blah'

ok, so it narks you to see a guy who's dress indicates (to the average joe in the street, not the uniform nerd in the RDF/PDF) that he's a regular/reservist while acting in a way that brings the service into disrepute. thats reasonable.

does it nark you to see a builder wearing a pair of filthy IrDPM waterproof trousers, a hi-viz coat and hard hat. he's not doing anything to indicate he's a member of the Irish military, nor is he doing anything that mught bring the service into disrepute - he's just working on a building site. do you care?

how about an RDF guy wearing a feild smock and jeans when he's out shooting rabbits - what he's doing is perfectly legal, he's probably not been within 500yrds of anyone - he's just a guy wearing a camouflage jacket, nobody knows he's an RDF guy, and he's minding his own business. does that offend you?

a studenty guy is walking down the street in july, he happens to be wearing a pair of IrDPM trousers that have been cut off to make shorts. apart from that he's got shoulder-length hair, a bumfluff beard, Ché Guavara t-shirt and flip-flops. do you give a shit?

a billy no-mates spends hundreds of pounds on ebay to buy a full set of IrDPM smock, shirt, trousers, beret, belt-kit and and airsoft Steyr. he wears it in his room and admires himself in the mirror. are you offended?

concussion

Sadly, all of them annoy me. The first because there's nothing to distinguish the drunken idiot from a serving soldier (Regular or Reserve) and in some cases they are a serving soldier (almost guaranteed to be Reserve).

The rest annoy me because it's so freaking hard to get a uniform in the RDF - most of my troops will go on the ground with only one pants/smock/shirt issued and have to scrounge a second set where they can. And don't get me started about trying to get IrDPM raingear!

Fair enough, some of the builders/hunters etc may have served - I don't begrudge them that as their returned uniforms aren't divvied out anyway, but so many people are getting extra uniforms from serving PDF and some RDF that it's bloody annoying when I have to tell my troops to bring spare civvi pants on exercise!!!

OS119

concussion wrote: »

Sadly, all of them annoy me. The first because there's nothing to distinguish the drunken idiot from a serving soldier (Regular or Reserve) and in some cases they are a serving soldier (almost guaranteed to be Reserve).

The rest annoy me because it's so freaking hard to get a uniform in the RDF - most of my troops will go on the ground with only one pants/smock/shirt issued and have to scrounge a second set where they can. And don't get me started about trying to get IrDPM raingear!

Fair enough, some of the builders/hunters etc may have served - I don't begrudge them that as their returned uniforms aren't divvied out anyway, but so many people are getting extra uniforms from serving PDF and some RDF that it's bloody annoying when I have to tell my troops to bring spare civvi pants on exercise!!!

so the only one you care about on a viscerial level is the guy making an arse of himself and bring the RDF/PDF - whether he's a member or not - into disrepute. thats fair, no argument there.

the others are only a problem because your supply chain needs to pull its finger out - if you could supply all your soldiers with all the uniform they need you wouldn't give a flying fcuk about what Che, the builder, the hunter or the airsoft walt were wearing?

concussion

Probably not, no. Objectively, not at all.

Poccington

OS119 wrote: »

according to any of the Road Traffic Acts if you drive over the speed limit you so something wrong, yet nobody - including a good proportion of the Gardai - gives the faintest **** about it unless you tear the arse out of it.

you are required by law to have a TV licience, but a good proportion don't have one - nobody cares.

you can be successfully sued in court for leaving a tenancy early, yet almost nobody ever is - again, a law which everybody ignores.

so why does anyone care remotely about bits of Irish uniform being worn by the builder down the road, or the student at a fancy dress party?

lots of huffing and puffing on the thread, but nobody as yet said 'this grips my **** because....'

Where did I mention either of those? I was speaking to m.j.w who was a serving member of the PDF when he did what he mentioned in his post.

If you think it's ok for apparently professional soldiers to break military law, fair play to you. Personally, I think it reflects badly on the person and on the organisation itself, when one of it's own members runs around twisted in said organisation's uniform and breaking said organisation's law.

If you think that's just huffing and puffing, I really couldn't give a ****.

NoQuarter

dodgydes wrote: »

no serving member would disrespect his uniform in this fashion.

Instantly obvious your not or have never been in the army. My most notable favourite memory was fcuking my backpack down tonelagee in front of me cause id lost the will to live :pac: yup really had regard for my stuff there!

Poccington wrote: »

According to the Defence Act, you definitely did something wrong.

According to the DFRs and military law you cant shake after a piss!

Poccington wrote: »

If you think it's ok for apparently professional soldiers to break military law, fair play to you. Personally, I think it reflects badly on the person and on the organisation itself, when one of it's own members runs around twisted in said organisation's uniform and breaking said organisation's law.

Im surprised at your outlook, and your serving arent you? What on earth unit are you in, everyone seems very nice! In my old unit we couldnt give a sh1t about anything like that...or anything in fact! We had a serious messer mentality and liked it! You cant steal either but its an unwritten rule in the army that if its not nailed down its free!

The only time I would have cared about the uniform is seeing RDF messing about in town or anywhere else in it (except halloween). I once seen some RDF's out in full CEFO outside a mcdonalds!! Shocking! :eek:

dodgydes

I'm with Mr Poccington on this one. Yes Sir.

concussion

NoQuarter wrote: »

According to the DFRs and military law you cant shake after a piss!

Could you perhaps elaborate on that?

NoQuarter

concussion wrote: »

Could you perhaps elaborate on that?

I was expressing that in the army you cant do anything without being in trouble!

concussion

Do exactly as trained and ordered, in accordance to DFRs, TC's, TI's and tech manuals and you should be fine. BSM's will also (generally) leave you alone if you can pull the Druile Cois from your pocket in order to clarify a point:D