Pug puppy wanted in time for Christmas

Whispered

liah wrote: »

I can't believe I'm the one being demonized for telling people not to assume. Fantastic.

Are you really going to come onto a forum - start an arguement - be very rude to a poster - call people names - accuse people of bullying - use offensive language - and then play the victim?

Discodog

liah wrote: »

:

The OP asked for where to find a reputable breeder and was instead met with everything BUT an answer to the question.

Answer the question and not what you assume the question to be and don't make assumptions about the poster unless given VALID reason to.

Ok so you believe that people should just reply & say no more than "you will find lots in Donedeal" ?. Where else on Boards does this happen ?.

The OP didn't get an answer because there is not an answer. The fact remains that no reputable breeder will have Christmas pups. We can't magic up a source.

Discodog

builttospill wrote: »

Oh yeah-one last thing with regards to your opinion that we are also bullies:

Sometimes you have to stand up and bully the bullies for virtuosity to prevail.

How do you know that we are not doing this

I just think that, what could be a fabulous source of information & discussion, is being denied a lot of input. I would love to see rescues, vets, legislators, spca's etc etc giving their input instead of running away. Some of them end up with threatening legal action rather than coming here to voice their views because of comment like this.

liah

Whispered wrote: »

Are you really going to come onto a forum - start an arguement - be very rude to a poster - call people names - accuse people of bullying - use offensive language - and then play the victim?

1) Name what poster I was rude to.
2) Name who I called a name.
3) Name who I called a bully.
4) Language I don't care about. I could say "ah ye cnut, how are ye?" or "You are a vile, disgusting human being." Which would you be more offended by, the sentence where the word "cnut" was used? Or the one that implied you were a vile, disgusting human being? I know I'd be much more concerned about the latter. The words used mean nothing. It's about the intent.

I was not rude to any one poster. I did not call any one poster any names and I'm fairly certain I didn't use the word bully in reference to any one poster. Just because I call an attitude self-righteous and condescending does in no way mean I'm attacking anyone personally.

I'm allowed to disagree with things, you know.

Discodog wrote: »

Ok so you believe that people should just reply & say no more than "you will find lots in Donedeal" ?. Where else on Boards does this happen ?.

The OP didn't get an answer because there is not an answer. The fact remains that no reputable breeder will have Christmas pups. We can't magic up a source.

When on earth did I say that? I even gave an example of things that would make sense without assuming too much.

All that had to be posted was "You'd be better off waiting til after Christmas, good breeders won't have pups around this time as too many people want them for the wrong reasons."

Instead, they basically turned on the OP and implied that the OP knew nothing and only wanted a pup for the wrong reasons. That is assumption. Assumption is wrong.

If the OP asks for more information, give them more information. But never, ever, ever assume something about someone's situation.

It's innocent until proven guilty, everyone here seems to be operating on the inverse: guilty until proven innocent. Hardly fair.

Whispered

liah wrote: »

1) Name what poster I was rude to.
2) Name who I called a name.
3) Name who I called a bully.
4) Language I don't care about. I could say "ah ye cnut, how are ye?" or "You are a vile, disgusting human being." Which would you be more offended by, the sentence where the word "cnut" was used? Or the one that implied you were a vile, disgusting human being? I know I'd be much more concerned about the latter. The words used mean nothing. It's about the intent.

I'm not going to go back quoting you - you know what you said read it yourself. Are you trying to say you're not being agressive?

Regarding language; Yes it is about intent and your intent was pretty obvious. To insult and belittle. Not to mention this forum can be a source of information to many people, including ones younger than yourself.

EDIT: I'm not continuing this conversation because it will go nowhere and is so far off topic it's just silly (not to mention the fact dinner is ready!)- suffice to say that in trying to stick up for posters - and I'm sure your intentions are only good - you've been very insulting to posters - who, like you, are only trying to help.

liah

Whispered wrote: »

I'm not going to go back quoting you - you know what you said read it yourself. Are you trying to say you're not being agressive?

Regarding language; Yes it is about intent and your intent was pretty obvious. To insult and belittle. Not to mention this forum can be a source of information to many people, including ones younger than yourself.

EDIT: I'm not continuing this conversation because it will go nowhere and is so far off topic it's just silly (not to mention the fact dinner is ready!)- suffice to say that in trying to stick up for posters - and I'm sure your intentions are only good - you've been very insulting to posters - who, like you, are only trying to help.

You're not going to go back quoting me because there is no case at all where I am attacking a poster over a post. Not a one. You're upset because I'm not being as flowery as everyone else, fine. That's personal preference.

I am being aggressive because I'm sick of this attitude and it seriously bothers me that so many people have been turned away from this forum, meaning an awful lot of animals could have been helped out that may now not have the opportunity. I am being aggressive because nobody deserves to be treated like how they have been treated (I've been following this forum for 2 years, this is not the first time this has happened this week let alone in general).

I have sat quiet long enough and that "A Puppy is for Life, Not Just Christmas" thing put me straight over the edge.

The attitude needs to be checked at the door. I'm not arguing about just this thread, either. I'm arguing about the history of this forum. Nobody can deny that the issue comes up at least once a week, if not more. Nobody can deny that it's always the same issue. If the same issue is coming up weekly over a very extended period of time, don't you think it's about time we finally did something about it?

Aggressive or not something needs to be done and quite often aggression is the only way people will take notice.

builttospill

Discodog wrote: »

Ok so you believe that people should just reply & say no more than "you will find lots in Donedeal" ?. Where else on Boards does this happen ?.

The OP didn't get an answer because there is not an answer. The fact remains that no reputable breeder will have Christmas pups. We can't magic up a source.

See this is an example of why it's pointless arguing with you. Nobody is saying that. What you are doing now is generalising and twisting rhetoric to suit your argument. We are saying that posters should be informed instead of hounded. Why do you continue to say that the forum needs debate or else people will be told to go on done deal or if thay are looking for a monkey they will be told yeah great come here or whatever nonsense you spouted earlier.

You are actually making stuff up. Can you not see this? Anyone reading this will be able to see this. Nobody wants to give the sort of advice you are accusing the forum of descending into. We want people to inform reasonably.

The forum needs debate? Or course it does but if someone asks a simple question why can a suitable informative answer not be given?

I'll ask you one more time-can you not see that this unhelpful criticism does not work? You've been told earlier by a mod that it doesn't. Countless other people have stated that it doesn't and I don't see the OP replying as is the case in other similar threads.

liah

Would just like to add, there's a big difference between someone starting a thread for discussion about a matter and someone starting a thread to get an answer for a question.

I should hope most people are able to tell the difference. This was one of the latter cases.

dahat

people must be so perfect in there own live's...........

someone just asked a question/looked for info and all the righteous opinions came at him/her.......

dahat

builttospill wrote: »

The forum needs debate? Or course it does but if someone asks a simple question why can a suitable informative answer not be given?

I'll ask you one more time-can you not see that this unhelpful criticism does not work? You've been told earlier by a mod that it doesn't. Countless other people have stated that it doesn't and I don't see the OP replying as is the case in other similar threads.

hear hear(from my limited time on boards).
sometime's people just want basic info/answers not opnions rammed into them by people who clearly wish to ram them into people.

builttospill

liah wrote: »

Would just like to add, there's a big difference between someone starting a thread for discussion about a matter and someone starting a thread to get an answer for a question.

I should hope most people are able to tell the difference. This was one of the latter cases.

It really is this simple and what we are calling for is quite simple yet the argument just escalates into farce. Tiresome just isn't the word...

I'm off to stick my cat in the microwave out of pure anger*



*Obviously a joke, but if the ridiculous Tubridy thread the other day is anything to go by I'll probably wake up tomorrow morning to an angry mob outside my house.

This forum needs a tetanus injection.

Whispered

It's a discussion board though - yes sometimes people are overzealous in how they give their opinions - but without opinions the forum wouldn't exist.

I think the "hows our driving thread" is going very well and your opinions on how to improve the forum would be very helpful over there. I think the more people posting in it the better to get a good handle on what needs to be done. Starting fights on threads and passive agressive posting along the lines of "oh some people...." is not really going to achieve much.

Discodog

The poster asked a question that did not have an answer therefore it had to result in a discussion. If you disagree with me & then other posters join you is that not hounding ?. That is what happens every day in virtually every forum. Some people appear to voice similar opinions & others oppose them.

I keep wondering why all the grief apparently happens here yet I see far worse in many other Boards fora ?. Recently there have been some good discussions on pretty contentious issues with no mod input. Is it just linked to who clicks the report post button ?.

Cherry Blossom

Discodog wrote: »

It's a bit like the spay thread in that responsible owners have to accept that they may be lumped in with the masses !. I recently advised someone here who wants to adopt a second dog that Christmas could be a good time if they have time off & are planning a quiet Christmas.

Unfortunately we have to generalise to try & convey a message that will help to reduce the huge number of abandoned & unwanted dogs. I hope that any genuine owner would understand & accept this.

The OP could of clarified the situation following their initial post. My guy was someone's Christmas present as was the little dog who joins us for every walk. He was in the house with the family last Christmas day - now he is ignored.

I appreciate the fact that an awful lot of API threads come up near the top of the list when people google similar questions. However I also appreciate the fact that 1 single person (whom I am sure is now long gone) asked this particular question. This is one of the reasons why I was delighted to see mention of an FAQ section in the 'Hows our driving thread'. Lots of people have plenty to say on individual threads, but when someone starts a general information thread no-one has anything to say. For example that whole post on health issues pugs have. I'm just going to use this as an example but this was a thread I started with the intention of it being informative.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056028365

The thread amounted to 17 posts in total, 9 where actually relevant to the topic, 1 highlighted 'designer breeds' and the rest were people pushing rescue dogs and debating on wether or not they had more or less health issues, wasn't really the point of the thread, it quickly lost interest and fizzled out, a lot of the people who make regular posts on threads like this about breed problems made no contribution, I don't know if this is because they didn't see the point of doing so or didn't see the thread. I think if we had an FAQ section (sooner rather than later) to point people in the direction of, all would be necessary would be to link to the relevant posts with a brief note saying 'some relevant info on the breed here for you for information purposes', rather than giving a lecture on breed and health issues. Everyone would get their point across without it being seen as condescending, agressive or whatever else and every thread wouldn't errupt like this one has done and it hasn't helped anyone. Incidently I thought it was a perfectly acceptable thread till everyone starting arguing with each other. Just my 2 cents worth, don't kill me anyone!:P

liah

Discodog wrote: »

The poster asked a question that did not have an answer therefore it had to result in a discussion. If you disagree with me & then other posters join you is that not hounding ?. That is what happens every day in virtually every forum. Some people appear to voice similar opinions & others oppose them.

I keep wondering why all the grief apparently happens here yet I see far worse in many other Boards fora ?. Recently there have been some good discussions on pretty contentious issues with no mod input. Is it just linked to who clicks the report post button ?.

Yes, it did have an answer. A very simple one that I've provided the answer to many times.

"You're unlikely to find a reputable breeder with litters around Christmas because too often they'd fall into the wrong hands. You'd be best waiting til after Christmas."

Simple, doesn't assume the OP knows nothing yet gives the reasons why there aren't any good breeders with pups around this time. Would that have been so hard? Really?

Also, I've said this before and I'll say it again: there is a MASSIVE difference between a topic for discussion and a topic in which a person is asking a simple question.

The pug thread just needed a simple answer. They asked for information regarding reputable breeders who may have pups around Christmas. They did not ask what anyone's opinion was on whether or not it's right to get a pup near Christmas. They did not ask what the breed strengths and weaknesses are. If you want to have a discussion thread about all these things, by all means, start one! But don't hijack a thread just to sit there and lecture them on things they didn't ask about because you ASSUME they're the wrong sort of people.

Cherry Blossom

Discodog wrote: »

The poster asked a question that did not have an answer therefore it had to result in a discussion.

I believe it did have an answer, and was given in the first reply, why not wait for the OP to come back and give or ask for more information before assuming it is wanted or needed. The state the thread is in now, if I was a newcommer I wouldn't be reading this post I'm currently typing as I'd have long abandoned it. Personally I believe the argument started here:

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

you have just openned a can of worms. A post like this will get totally flamed.

At this point people start looking for underlying meanings of posts that may well not exist or have been intended This post served no purpose in this thread and was the first Off Topic post!

Whispered

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Off Topic post!

You're right adrenalinjunkie - OP I'm sorry for being involved in your thread being pulled off topic. I hope you understand that everyone on the thread are just trying to help.

If you were hoping to get a dog as a gift I'm sure your probably disappointed that it would be difficult if not impossible to find a good breeder willing to let a pup go near christmas. Could you buy all of the things associated with a dog, leads, bowl, blankets etc and put your name down for a litter due after christmas and get a pic of the mother. You could give the dog things and the picture to your giftee and tell them that because it was important to you to get a dog from a good breeder you didn't want to take a christmas puppy - but you have one booked for them for the new year.

As an animal lover I'd be so touched if someone thought of doing that for me instead of buying from a less than great breeder.

Discodog

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Incidently I thought it was a perfectly acceptable thread till everyone starting arguing with each other. Just my 2 cents worth, don't kill me anyone!:P

Yeah I thought that too. I think that most of us believed that API was doing well of late. We have managed to have some good discussions with strongly opposing views.

Hellrazer

Im away for the evening but I`ll post my views on this thread later today/tonight.

The way I see it is that I agree 100% with the sentiment that a dog shouldnt be bought as a xmas present/at xmas but Im with Liah on this that the way the original posters questions were answered is just getting out of hand.

The thread should have really ended with "a reputable breeder will not have pups over the xmas period"

But look at the state this thread is in now.

Im locking it for now and Ill post my thoughts on the feedback thread when I get a minute.