Saorview Launch nears - Still no TV3 or boxes!!!

patsryan

The Saorview service is ment to launch on sunday but theres still no TV3, website or even boxes on sale anyone got any clue why?

EDIT: So does that mean it will be the same until its full launch in 2011? No TV3 etc?

The Cush

From Sunday RTÉ are required by legislation to have the national television multiplex "operational and available free-to-air to approximately 90 per cent of the population".

They have probably met or exceeded this requirement already.

The Minister said recently

Accordingly, I imposed, by order, a requirement on RTÉ to make its public service DTT multiplex available to 90% of the population from 31 October 2010.

This service will be provided by RTÉ as a trial service in advance of the full national launch in 2011. I believe that this RTÉ trial service is essential as it provides time for the DTT service to fully develop whilst also providing for TV viewers to adopt the new service at the earliest opportunity.

and previously

We are starting the DTT service in October 2010, which is a crucial time. It will take time to test it and get it right before it is fully launched in a public way, that is, where we are pushing and selling it to the public.

scath

patsryan wrote: »

The Saorview service is ment to launch on sunday but theres still no TV3, website or even boxes on sale anyone got any clue why?

EDIT: So does that mean it will be the same until its full launch in 2011? No TV3 etc?

Saorview service is not meant to launch on Sunday. Let's be factually correct about it. The Saorview testing service is meant to launch to the public on Sunday. That means up to now its been a private testing of the network. So I would suspect that things only start coming on stream from that date. Full public launch is not until November 2011. That is when boxes TV3 etc could be expected. So we may see the website in November. Its all really slow burner. The walker box is Saorview certified so again we may get more info from November but not before because its not a full launch and its the way we do things in Ireland lol.

Rick_

We are starting the DTT service in October 2010, which is a crucial time. It will take time to test it and get it right before it is fully launched in a public way, that is, where we are pushing and selling it to the public.

Starting on 31st October for testing? It's been testing for feckin' years! Launch the thing already!

Sam Russell

I think, from reading everything said by RTE, Minister, etc, that what will happen next week is that RTENL will pass the DTT system to RTE.

From Monday, RTE will begin testing the system from a programming and distribution point of view. "OK, now we have a working network, what do/can we do with it?"

A bit like a ship gets launched, and then undergoes sea trials. Eventually, it takes passengers. Maybe they are waiting for the anniversary of the maiden voyage of the Titanic.

Macy0161

patsryan wrote: »

The Saorview service is ment to launch on sunday but theres still no TV3, website or even boxes on sale anyone got any clue why?

As scath mentioned, Powercity have a Walker box which is certified.

I'm in no way technical, but I presume TV3 is a pretty easy addition at this stage given it's tested (flick of a switch?). I doubt it will be there, but I wouldn't be totally shocked if it was there either.

Notwithstanding the fact that we don't know what arrangement tv3 have with RTE for payment,whether they are negotiated,whether they have agreed a price or are near one or whatever...Doesn't the legal instruction from the minister refer to the national tv multiplex being in place by october 31st which would mean that Tv3 has to be on tv3 is part of that multiplex by law,a must carry ?

Macy0161

Deleted User wrote: »

Doesn't the legal instruction from the minister refer to the national tv multiplex being in place by october 31st which would mean that Tv3 has to be on tv3 is part of that multiplex by law,a must carry ?

You'd think, but it would be unlike this Government to have legislation that was that clear and didn't leave wriggle room.

Sam Russell

Macy0161 wrote: »

........ didn't leave wriggle room.

....... or sqirm room.

Sam Russell

Got an email from the Dept.

Under the Broadcasting Act, 2009 the roll out of Irish national free to air digital terrestrial is the responsibility of RTÉ and they will be able to give you information on its availability.

Earlier this year, Minister Ryan signed a statutory instrument (SI 85 of 2010) which requires RTÉ to have free to air DTT available to 90% of the population by the end of this month. RTÉ have informed the Department that the service will be available from 29th October from 24 sites.

RTÉ will be launching, in the coming days, a website for their DTT service – www.saorview.ie , where you will be able to get further information. I have also been informed by RTÉ that the current Saorview approved receivers are:

Walker Technology Products Ltd

Walker WP10DTP & WP11DTP set top box receivers
Walker WPxx (19”-46”) MP4 range of iDTV sets

and further information on this will be available on www.saorview.ie website once it goes live in the next few days.


So, only 24 sites, and from today. With TV3

Sam Russell

Just checked. No TV3 yet, but Saorview website says it will be included. Maybe later today there will be a launch, maybe at launchtime.

From saorview.ie

"On the 29th of October 2010, SAORVIEW will be turned on as a trial service. From that date, RTÉ One, RTÉ Two, TV3, TG4 and RTÉ News Now will be broadcast as trial digital services. More channels, services and enhancements will follow as part of the full launch of the SAORVIEW service in spring 2011."

Did they maybe like want to save on It and put the final version up on that site with no more editing of it,so thats why it includes the word TV3 :pac:

Rippy

basic webpage is now up, confirming official trial from today including TV3
Mullaganish and Crosshaven both off air at moment.
Something happening?

Sam Russell

I think TV3 will be on it, but not just yet. 12:50 and no TV3!:mad:

Stinicker

Rippy wrote: »

basic webpage is now up, confirming official trial from today including TV3
Mullaganish and Crosshaven both off air at moment.
Something happening?

Mullaghanish is online now and I just swept the spectrum with my Technomate 6900HD and still no sign of TV3!

jaggiebunnet

anyone any idea where to get a STB in Cork and how much it costs?

Souriau

Well now is 1st Nov. still no sign of the SAORview launch, still no TV3 or any other free channels. and no SAORview EPG system.

The Cush

Souriau wrote: »

Well now is 1st Nov. still no sign of the SAORview launch, still no TV3 or any other free channels. and no SAORview EPG system.

Trial service launched last Friday

galtee boy

The Cush wrote: »

Trial service launched last Friday

:mad: But it didn't launch did it ? All that happened, was the test's became a trial. A website launch is all that happened. Diddly squat difference to anyone with poor analogue, hoping to get a FULL service of the national channels in order to switch to dtt. Another fine mess, we've gotten ourselves into.

watty

But they have said since for ages that full launch would be between April 2011 and December 2011 at latest. Now they say Spring 2011

So what happened is what was predicted. I said at 2010-08-18 that Nov1st would simply be a press release. Well I was 3 days out.
http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorview
Initial blog (14-07-2010) here http://www.techtir.ie/watty/saortv though there are earlier posts and discussions regarding Irish DTT going back to October 2009 on the site when it launched.

I'm inclined to agree with galtee boy..
If that was a launch then I must be the space shuttle...

evilivor

jaggiebunnet wrote: »

anyone any idea where to get a STB in Cork and how much it costs?

The Walker website lists AV Service Centre on Father Mathew Quay as one of their service places so they may well be retailing them too. They are around €100 through Powercity website IIRC.

bob11

evilivor wrote: »

The Walker website lists AV Service Centre on Father Mathew Quay as one of their service places so they may well be retailing them too. They are around €100 through Powercity website IIRC.

Just having a look at the Walker Webiste and their product brochure :
http://new.digiflip.ie/?userpath=00000492/00014011/00054264/

Along with their MPEG4 Digital Tuner or Irish TV range, they are also showing a few TVs with satellite Tuners - WP42SAT-HD-LCD TV which says
"Integrated Satellite tuner for Irish TV"

Does anyone know if this is really the new SaorSat receiver Built in ?
Or more likely a freesat receiver , or neither ?

JustAddWater

we're paying a TV licence for this fiasco

€100 for a DTT box is scandalous. Forcing people to buy something when the service doesnt even have the right channels up and poor poor information available about what when or where anything is happening

I would highly recommened people pay the extra €60 and get a DTT box which can also recieve FTA channels (for those with a dish, and there's no wait on that if you have a dish ready!) and if you plug in a USB key it becomes a DVR which is handy

Oh but RTE wont support the box unless its the official walker one but judging from this mess, RTE support will be s**t all use to you anyway!

channelsurfer2

tv3 have refused to give rteNL permission to allow them broadcast it on DTT.... just got that answer from rteNL...they are unable to say when tv3 will give them permission.

JustAddWater

Can you post this please?

I hear a rumour (so prob not true, can't verify) that TV3 wouldn't pay RTE NL a fee required to host TV3 on the DTT platform

Hearing lots of different things but would love the actual answer! Sounds wierd that TV3 would refuse RTE NL permission to broadcast as they'd be losing out on viewers if less people could recieve the channel and more switch to DTT

If you could post the reply from RTE NL would much appreicate it

Thanks

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

tv3 have refused to give rteNL permission to allow them broadcast it on DTT.... just got that answer from rteNL...they are unable to say when tv3 will give them permission.

channelsurfer2

it came from a phonecall I made to rteNL's contact number.....the guy said thats the reason and would not elaborate any further..

The Cush

galtee boy wrote: »

:mad: But it didn't launch did it ? All that happened, was the test's became a trial. A website launch is all that happened. Diddly squat difference to anyone with poor analogue, hoping to get a FULL service of the national channels in order to switch to dtt. Another fine mess, we've gotten ourselves into.

The trial service did launch as the Minister announced in the Dáil at the beginning of June, the October date was never announced as the full launch just the beginning of the public testing phase of the project moving from the engineering test transmissions at the upgraded transmitter sites.

"We are starting the DTT service in October 2010, which is a crucial time. It will take time to test it and get it right before it is fully launched in a public way, that is, where we are pushing and selling it to the public."

Bull.

(RTENL's lackey response that is)

Tom Slick

JustAddWater wrote: »

we're paying a TV licence for this . . . €100 for a DTT box is scandalous. Forcing people to buy something when the service doesnt even have the right channels up and poor poor information available about what when or where anything is happening

. . . Oh but RTE wont support the box unless its the official walker one but judging from this mess, RTE support will be s**t all use to you anyway!

Nobody's forcing you to buy anything. Analogue won't be switched off for another 2 years. By that time there should (hopefully) be loads of cheap boxes and tvs with official certification. Your best source of info. is here in Boards, I would think.

Macy0161

JustAddWater wrote: »

I would highly recommened people pay the extra €60 and get a DTT box which can also recieve FTA channels (for those with a dish, and there's no wait on that if you have a dish ready!) and if you plug in a USB key it becomes a DVR which is handy

Oh but RTE wont support the box unless its the official walker one but judging from this mess, RTE support will be s**t all use to you anyway!

Maybe there's a technical reason I'm missing, but presumably there's nothing stopping the combo manufacturers getting certified for saorview, if they wanted to?

And RTE won't be supporting any receiver.

watty

RTE NL doesn't support or test ANYTHING...

Teracom tests and RTE NL issues a Saorview cert.
If it's Saorview certified, then RTE NL will feed OTA firmware upgrades supplied by the manufacturer. That is the limit of RTE NL support.

RTE don't do anything to do with Saorview, it's RTE NL.

Yes, anyone can get any kind of thing certified as long as it has CE mark also and passes it can then be sold with Saorview logo. There is no limitation on Extra features.

At present there are a small number of SAORVIEW approved STBs or iDTVs, see below. Others are currently going through the testing process.
In the lead up to the full launch of SAORVIEW in spring 2011 there will be a wider range of approved receivers available from retailers and TV installers across the country.

Consumers should seek advice from their specialist retailer or manufacturer if looking to make a purchase in the immediate future. Please note that the majority* of UK "Freeview" boxes and iDTVs will not decode the SAORVIEW service.
RTÉNL recommends that consumers wishing to avail of the SAORVIEW service only purchase receivers that carry the SAORVIEW approved logo.

via http://www.rtenl.ie/dtt.htm

* Note: "Freeview HD" TVs and Boxes (unlike basic "Freeview" even if HD ready or HDTV) should work. Some you select UK which disables Analogue VHF and enables MHEG5.

slicedpanman

bob11 wrote: »

Just having a look at the Walker Webiste and their product brochure :
http://new.digiflip.ie/?userpath=00000492/00014011/00054264/

Here is a link to the User Manual for their STB... looks fairly basic (€100 seems steep -> expect its because its the only official one for now)

Souriau

If this service is already launch then why is it not change?
I mean
the testing is finish now change the mode to the full HD and the correct service (0x16 and 0x19), let this sort out the wrong type of TV or STB before the offical launch.

byte

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

tv3 have refused to give rteNL permission to allow them broadcast it on DTT.... just got that answer from rteNL...they are unable to say when tv3 will give them permission.

That's the answer I got when I called them today too.

gtg60

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

tv3 have refused to give rteNL permission to allow them broadcast it on DTT.... just got that answer from rteNL...they are unable to say when tv3 will give them permission.

What?!?!

So, RTE NL are prepared to carry them but TV3 won't give them the go ahead?! I've heard it all now!

Propellerhead

gtg60 wrote: »

What?!?!

So, RTE NL are prepared to carry them but TV3 won't give them the go ahead?! I've heard it all now!

The testcard on RTENL1 with RnaG sound is infinitely better than the poorly broadcast reheated ITV that TV3 serve up on analogue.

Screw them.

The Cush

gtg60 wrote: »

What?!?!

So, RTE NL are prepared to carry them but TV3 won't give them the go ahead?! I've heard it all now!

I posted the following in another thread, I think it's applicable in this thread too

The Cush wrote: »

If the reason given by RTÉNL to byte & channelsurfer2 is correct the blame appears to lay with TV3.

The various press releases indicate TV3 will be there, the TV3 schedule appeared on the epg and the channel name changed from RTÉNL to TV3. They are one of the stakeholders in this project who would have been involved in the preparation for the launch.

The question is if everything was in place why did TV3 refuse to give permission on the day of the launch to be carried on the trial service? The dual charges issue doesn't seem to be the problem if RTÉNL were ready to carry TV3.

Taking a shot in the dark here but this has the smell of Onevision's failed commercial licence bid about it (TV3 being a shareholder) not to mention TV3 being removed from the engineering test transmissions almost 8 months ago during the negotiations.

As we've has no official response/release from any source can we assume discussions are continuing?

Damomanye

Did the TV3 schedule appear on your epg and the channel name change from RTÉNL to TV3??

Mine is still the same ol' same ol', even did a rescan

FREETV

The Cush wrote: »

I posted the following in another thread, I think it's applicable in this thread too

I think that as many of us as possible should contact TV3 by email, phone or fax and demand that their service be shown immediately on the Saorview trial OR THAT WE WILL BE BOYCOTTING THEIR STATION AND WEBSITE. We pay 160 a year for those of us that don't subscribe to UPC or Sky in order to watch it in analogue crap quality if we ARE AT ALL ABLE TO RECEIVE IT!

The Cush

Damomanye wrote: »

Did the TV3 schedule appear on your epg and the channel name change from RTÉNL to TV3??

Mine is still the same ol' same ol', even did a rescan

Yes I saw the TV3 schedule in the epg that day (didn't last too long), didn't see the name change but it was reported by another poster or two here on the day.

Tom Slick

FREETV wrote: »

I think that as many of us as possible should contact TV3 by email, phone or fax and demand that their service be shown immediately on the Saorview trial OR THAT WE WILL BE BOYCOTTING THEIR STATION AND WEBSITE. We pay 160 a year for those of us that don't subscribe to UPC or Sky . . .

And who exactly do you think gets the licence fee, or do you have some seperate arrangement?

FREETV

Tom Slick wrote: »

And who exactly do you think gets the licence fee, or do you have some seperate arrangement?

Well Tom Slick for those of us that pay tv licenses towards RTE's and RTENL's running expenses and watch the PSB stations by tv aerials and don't want to pay Sky or UPC just to watch TV3 for a bit of extra viewing content, we deserve a lot better. TV3 is a must carry station and should have been on Saorview on the 29th of October.

simatoel

During the testing period of DTT (as opposed to the now official public testing period) TV3 would not pay for the service, claiming ony a minor increase in coverage, ignoring the fact that the new coverage was in the 90 percents and of digital quality. RTENL requested that they only pay the electricty running costs during this period, but they still refused, hence they were pulled from DTT. So why do they not want to go to DTT now? Sky TV owes TV3 (see below)and have a "Mutually beneficial deal", and SKY would have a vested interest in keeping people attached to their subscription SKY boxes, if only to have TV3. I was nearly divorced for going freesat and losing TV3, even though I demonstrated that all the soaps were on UTV. TV3 analogue is a big comedown in marginal reception areas when you were used to TV3 digital from SKY, so its no wonder they (SKY) don't want to lose this leverage. Read
http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/tv3-loses-living-tv-advert-sales-deal-52590.html

Charles Slane

gtg60 wrote: »

What?!?!

So, RTE NL are prepared to carry them but TV3 won't give them the go ahead?! I've heard it all now!

But that's like if you were walking along the road and a taxi pulled up and the driver said "Get in, I'm taking you into town for 50 quid", and you said "Firstly I'm not sure I want to go to town, and secondly 50 quid is too dear." And the taxi driver said "Well I've already told everyone in town that I'm bringing you in"...

If you refused to get into the taxi, who's to blame for the people in town being disappointed?

STB

Who is driving the car again ?

A fairer analogy would include creating the expectation of gaining a free ride. And this is nothing to do with Sally O Brien and the way she might look at ya.

Tony

I looked into this on behalf of Ferguson and the fees quoted for certification were unreasonable in my view. With the relatively small size of the Irish market I don't see many manufacturers going for this.

Macy0161 wrote: »

there's nothing stopping the combo manufacturers getting certified for saorview, if they wanted to?

Tom Slick

Charles Slane wrote: »

If you refused to get into the taxi, who's to blame for the people in town being disappointed?

I think it's more a case of TV3 agreeing to help the taxi driver with his finance repayments, rather than just being a passenger.

Sam Russell

I know there is a taxi regulator, but is there no regulator for DTT?

Surely there is some one in charg..... hold on, are we not in the middle of a financial crisis? Who is in charge of that? Oh, yea, the same crowd that got us into it.

watty

There is no single agency!

• BAI = only content, i.e. approves a Channel
• Comreg = The channels (spectrum) allowed for RTE NL
• Government = Broadcasting act 2009. Could set legislation for TV standards, i.e. minimum TV & setbox specs. Won't
• DCNER = The Minister. Sets dates under the Broadcasting act 2009
• RTE NL = Operates the Transmission network. Soarview Certification has no legal standing. Just removes consumer uncertainty.
• RTE, TG4, TV3 = The actual Broadcasters
• CAI = ??? Does nothing but should (Advocate about needs of consumer)
• ASAI = Does nothing but should (honest adverts about TVs)

• Manufacturers. Nothing stopping a Company making a box compliant and saying it fully compatible Irish DTT. They simply just can't use the Soarview name or logo in claims, advertising or promotion.
• Importers/Distributors
• Retailers

• Installers. No legal minimum standards in Ireland for Aerials, cable, Insurance, customer care or training. Hence ISAA (link). 50 years overdue

RTE NL pricing HAS been looked at by ex Chairperson of Comreg, Isolde Goggin, and found fair.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

There is no single agency!

BAI = only content, i.e. approves a Channel
Comreg = The channels (spectrum) allowed for RTE NL
Government = Broadcasting act 2009. Could set legislation for TV standards, i.e. minimum TV & setbox specs. Won't
DCNER = The Minister. Sets policy under the Broadcasting act 2009
RTE NL = Operates the Transmission network. Soarview has no legal standing. Just removes consumer uncertainty.
RTE, TG4, TV3 = The actual Broadcasters
CAI = ??? Does nothing but should (Advocate about needs of consumer)
ASAI = Does nothing but should (honest adverts about TVs)

Manufacturers
Importers/Distributors
Retailers

What a mess! No-one is in charge. We need another Broadcasting Act, this time give the overall responsibility to the Minister, and make him get it going, and hold him responsible for it if it does not work. You know, like it is in a democracy.