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Knocknacarra/Rahoon History
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21-10-2010 11:55pm#1
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churchview wrote: »This is all quite recent stuff.
Knocknacarra was never "posh" whatever that means. All that was ther was farms and usually pretty poor ones as the land for agricultural purposes was pretty awful. This only goes back about thirty years though. There was pretty much nothing there before then.
Rahoon's association with poverty goes back well before the flats. It was the site of many tinker encampments ( as they were called back then) and the farms around were poor dairy farms.
Kingston didn't really exist until about 35 years ago. Before this name was adopted Taylor's Hill stretched as far as Knocknacarra cross. Some in Kingston use the address Kingston, Taylor's hill . I've relatives who left our family home in the 1950s who jus use the address Taylor's Hill - they wouldn't know where to find Kingston - to them it's the name of the brothers house, not an address.
In my Grandmother's time, those with any cattle were posher than those with none
She did know people who lived in what is now Knocknacarra, so I assume there were some houses then.
Rahoon was a huge parish, technically taking in as far as Barna and beyond I believe. Lots of associations with poverty yes, but also had its affluent residents too. I believe Col. Bodkin (as in the roundabout
) was from there.
Yes, I knew that about Taylor's Hill/Kingston, and that's why I mentioned them together. Half the people in Maunsells Park use Taylors Hill as an address and half use Shantalla, and it has little to do with which side of the park they are on and all about the G4 mentality!:D0 -
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churchview wrote: »This is all quite recent stuff.
Knocknacarra was never "posh" whatever that means. All that was ther was farms and usually pretty poor ones as the land for agricultural purposes was pretty awful. This only goes back about thirty years though. There was pretty much nothing there before then.
Rahoon's association with poverty goes back well before the flats. It was the site of many tinker encampments ( as they were called back then) and the farms around were poor dairy farms.
Kingston didn't really exist until about 35 years ago. Before this name was adopted Taylor's Hill stretched as far as Knocknacarra cross. Some in Kingston use the address Kingston, Taylor's hill . I've relatives who left our family home in the 1950s who jus use the address Taylor's Hill - they wouldn't know where to find Kingston - to them it's the name of the brothers house, not an address.
i beg to differ, Knocknacarra WAS considered posh and yes there were houses there - ask your mam or dad - maybe you just didn't live nearby or spend any time there - if you talk to someone that lived in the area you will find out what it was like.
also I never heard of the "tinker emcampments" - yes the tinkers parked their caravans and lived all up along the side of the road heading to Rahoon but there were no specific traveller "encampments" - again check with your mam or dad or someone who actually lived in the area. 0 -
dolphin city wrote: »i beg to differ, Knocknacarra WAS considered posh and yes there were houses there - ask your mam or dad - maybe you just didn't live nearby or spend any time there - if you talk to someone that lived in the area you will find out what it was like.
also I never heard of the "tinker emcampments" - yes the tinkers parked their caravans and lived all up along the side of the road heading to Rahoon but there were no specific traveller "encampments" - again check with your mam or dad or someone who actually lived in the area.
I'm disappointed that your attitude is so narky, when in fact I've "defended" you on another post.
Name me one so called "posh" area in Knocknacarra? Good luck with that.
Yes, there was the occasional farm, and a few houses.
There's be no point my asking my parents about the "tinker encampments". They were from before their time; more like my grandparents time. Whether you've heard of them or not is irrelevant.
Clearly you've wonderful local knowledge of the area, and your family has been there for ages - well done; it must give you a warm fuzzy feeling inside :rolleyes: I would ask my parents for more detail but one is dead and the other is as good as, but hey, I don't need to ask. I well remember being able to look out the back window of my home as a child being able to see fields and fields before Clybaun Heights, Oldfield (Seangort), all of Ballymoneen or any of those were built. Sure you'd see the odd house but nothing much more.0 -
churchview wrote: »I'm disappointed that your attitude is so narky, when in fact I've "defended" you on another post.
Name me one so called "posh" area in Knocknacarra? Good luck with that.
Yes, there was the occasional farm, and a few houses.
There's be no point my asking my parents about the "tinker encampments". They were from before their time; more like my grandparents time. Whether you've heard of them or not is irrelevant.
Clearly you've wonderful local knowledge of the area, and your family has been there for ages - well done; it must give you a warm fuzzy feeling inside :rolleyes: I would ask my parents for more detail but one is dead and the other is as good as, but hey, I don't need to ask. I well remember being able to look out the back window of my home as a child being able to see fields and fields before Clybaun Heights, Oldfield (Seangort), all of Ballymoneen or any of those were built. Sure you'd see the odd house but nothing much more.
There are no "posh" areas of knocknacarra now as I mentioned in my earlier post - it is full of estates and is just as common as other areas - however if you had read my post properly you would have read that knocknacarra was considered very posh years ago - long before your clybaun heights and oldfield estates went up - in fact even before Corrib Park was built - I don't know if you can remember or were around before Corrib Park was built, again maybe you could ask someone that was. Everyone in fact could look out their window and see fields before these estates were built - thats not to say that knocknacarra did not exist and it wasn't considered posh and there was not houses in it. It was where the upper classes went to live who had money or who wanted to be seen to have money. Again, I suggest you check with people who were around at the time. 0 -
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dolphin city wrote: »There are no "posh" areas of knocknacarra now as I mentioned in my earlier post - it is full of estates and is just as common as other areas - however if you had read my post properly you would have read that knocknacarra was considered very posh years ago - long before your clybaun heights and oldfield estates went up - in fact even before Corrib Park was built - I don't know if you can remember or were around before Corrib Park was built, again maybe you could ask someone that was. Everyone in fact could look out their window and see fields before these estates were built - thats not to say that knocknacarra did not exist and it wasn't considered posh and there was not houses in it. It was where the upper classes went to live who had money or who wanted to be seen to have money. Again, I suggest you check with people who were around at the time.
Where did I say that I was talking about "Knocknacarra now"?
Tell me where the "Upper Classes" lived in Knocknacarra? One or two isolated houses maybe, but where were these hoards of the "upper class" who lived in Knocknacarra. Try to name me four or five families who lived in these upper class Knocknacarra areas. You won't because Knocknacarra was never "posh". It consisted of small farms and in the 19th Century less than a handful of "big" houses. Between then and now its inhabitants may have heard of "posh", but they certainly didn't live it!
To be clear, I'm asking you. I'm not going off to ask anyone else even if you "tell" me to.
Also, what in the name of God has Corrib Park to do with Knocknacarra? It's nowhere near it.
Finally, you don't know the first thing about me. So stop implying that I'm some young one that has to run off and ask someone older than me, just because I disagree with you when you're wrong.0 -
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churchview wrote: »Where did I say that I was talking about "Knocknacarra now"?
Tell me where the "Upper Classes" lived in Knocknacarra? One or two isolated houses maybe, but where were these hoards of the "upper class" who lived in Knocknacarra. Try to name me four or five families who lived in these upper class Knocknacarra areas. You won't because Knocknacarra was never "posh". It consisted of small farms and in the 19th Century less than a handful of "big" houses. Between then and now its inhabitants may have heard of "posh", but they certainly didn't live it!
To be clear, I'm asking you. I'm not going off to ask anyone else even if you "tell" me to.
Also, what in the name of God has Corrib Park to do with Knocknacarra? It's nowhere near it.
Finally, you don't know the first thing about me. So stop implying that I'm some young one that has to run off and ask someone older than me, just because I disagree with you when you're wrong.
:D I know I'm probably older than a lot on here, but apologies for the fact that I was not around in the 19th century so therefore will not try to pretend I know who lived where during that time. Whether you chose to believe it or not, Knocknacarra was considered upmarket and posh appox 30 - 40 years ago and beyond. If you actually know about Galway at all, you will realise that Galway was basically made up of estates built around the town, bohermore, claddagh, fairhill, shantalla, and much later Corrib Park/Coogan etc. Highfield Park was considered a lot "better" than places in Corrib Park/Shantalla/ as was Greenfields/Fairlands. Knocknacarra considered upmarket and people who thought they were better than others decided to purchase houses in Knocknacarra and Yes again I stress there were houses in Knocknacarra at the time - not farms - houses. again just because you didn't seem them from your bedroom window did not mean they didn't exist (unless of course you lived in a glass house LOL). I'm gettin tired of trying to explain the actual situation - again I suggest you speak to someone you trust and they will set you straight. 0 -
churchview wrote: »Apologies. I forgot to comment on this bit of nonsense. I'm not talking about recently when they were there in the last 40 - 50 years. I'm talking late 19th and early 20th century. I'm sure you yourself were there at that time though and will therefore have a contrary view :rolleyes::D:D you shouldn't really comment on things you don't know or have not lived through - you said the encampments were around in your grandparents time, did you not - jeez if they were around in the 19th century, (1800's) then or early 20th century (early 1900's) then what age does that make you? in your 70's, 80's at least I would imagine, in which case you would know exactly what I am saying. nice try but no cigar
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dolphin city wrote: »:D:D you shouldn't really comment on things you don't know or have not lived through - you said the encampments were around in your grandparents time, did you not - jeez if they were around in the 19th century, (1800's) then or early 20th century (early 1900's) then what age does that make you? in your 70's, 80's at least I would imagine, in which case you would know exactly what I am saying. nice try but no cigar
My grandfather was born in 1884. My grandmother approx 5 years later.
What that has to do with historical facts relating to the area beats me though :rolleyes:0 -
dolphin city wrote: »: If you actually know about Galway at all, you will realise that Galway was basically made up of estates built around the town... claddagh, fairhill,
So Claddagh is an estate built around the town You're quite the expert alright.dolphin city wrote: »:
Knocknacarra considered upmarket and people who thought they were better than others decided to purchase houses in Knocknacarra and Yes again I stress there were houses in Knocknacarra at the time - not farms - houses. again just because you didn't seem them from your bedroom window did not mean they didn't exist (unless of course you lived in a glass house LOL).
Go on, try to answer a question that's put to you, even if for the novelty of it. Where were these posh houses? Name us four or five families that lived in themdolphin city wrote: »:
I'm gettin tired of trying to explain the actual situation - again I suggest you speak to someone you trust and they will set you straight.
You don't explain anything. You make bald assertions, take umbrage when anyone disagrees with you and then ignore them when they put questions to you to try to make some sense of what you say.dolphin city wrote: »:
Knocknacarra considered upmarket and people who thought they were better than others decided to purchase houses in Knocknacarra and Yes again I stress there were houses in Knocknacarra at the time
What? This is just a statement, completely subjective and entirely nonsense. It's neither an argument nor an assertion. Do you know the difference?
Finally, Knocknacarra may have had some posh houses in the 19th Century. Noone, including me, needs to speak to their predecessors or ancestors to verify this. It's historical fact, clear from maps, books etc. There has been no poshness ever since.
There's no way Knocknacarra was posh 30, 40 or 50 years ago. The farms were joined by mainly ugly (granted a subjective opinion) bungalow blitz type properties whose only claim to poshness might be that they'd a quarter acre instead of the patch that surrounds most estate houses. Now, if you were living in one of these and therefore considered yourself posh, God love you!0 -
churchview wrote: »So Claddagh is an estate built around the town You're quite the expert alright.
Go on, try to answer a question that's put to you, even if for the novelty of it. Where were these posh houses? Name us four or five families that lived in them
You don't explain anything. You make bald assertions, take umbrage when anyone disagrees with you and then ignore them when they put questions to you to try to make some sense of what you say.
What? This is just a statement, completely subjective and entirely nonsense. It's neither an argument nor an assertion. Do you know the difference?
Finally, Knocknacarra may have had some posh houses in the 19th Century. Noone, including me, needs to speak to their predecessors or ancestors to verify this. It's historical fact, clear from maps, books etc. There has been no poshness ever since.
There's no way Knocknacarra was posh 30, 40 or 50 years ago. The farms were joined by mainly ugly (granted a subjective opinion) bungalow blitz type properties whose only claim to poshness might be that they'd a quarter acre instead of the patch that surrounds most estate houses. Now, if you were living in one of these and therefore considered yourself posh, God love you!
calm down dear or you'll give yourself a heart attack. I would rather post on what I know and lived through, not what somebody in the 19th century live through. I'll be the first to admit I wasn't around in the 19th century to experience what life was like then. If your granny would have been 121 years old now, I think you should have been around Galway at the time when Knocknacarra was considered posh and upmarket. Maybe you just cannot remember or are trying to forget LOL Now I suggest you relax a bit and don't be getting so worked up. I don't go on second hand experiences, just my own thanks.0 -
dolphin city wrote: »calm down dear or you'll give yourself a heart attack. again I would rather post on what I know and lived through, not what somebody in the 19th century live through - they were full of oul tales then and you couldn't trust what they say. I do however trust my own experiences and you won't make me change that dear. Now I suggest you relax a bit and don't be getting so worked up.
I'm not a bit worked up
I just find it a bit pathetic that people claim a place was posh when it wasn't, and clearly isn't. They then post tripe and are incapable of answering straight questions and they then accuse others of being wrong.
As for not trusting what people say, have a look at old documents maybe if you don't trust what people say? By the way, would these be the same people you advise other to "go and ask"?
Logic and consistency are beyond you. Clearly this is why you are incapable of addressing a single issue or question that's put to you.
You added the bit "if your granny..." since I posted this first? Are you doubting what I'm saying?0 -
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churchview wrote: »I'm not a bit worked up
I just find it a bit pathetic that people claim a place was posh when it wasn't, and clearly isn't. They then post tripe and are incapable of answering straight questions and they then accuse others of being wrong.
As for not trusting what people say, have a look at old documents maybe if you don't trust what people say? By the way, would these be the same people you advise other to "go and ask"?
Logic and consistency are beyond you. Clearly this is why you are incapable of addressing a single issue or question that's put to you.
You added the bit "if your granny..." since I posted this first? Are you doubting what I'm saying?
saucer of milk perhaps?0 -
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churchview wrote: »Answer question maybe?
maybe a nice game of golf should jog your memory - oh wait, sorry only farms allowed.:D:D 0 -
dolphin city wrote: »maybe a nice game of golf should jog your memory - oh wait, sorry only farms allowed.:D:D
I don't play golf.
What's that got to do with any of the questions I and others have raised on this thread?
"Only farms allowed" ???0 -
churchview wrote: »I don't play golf.
What's that got to do with any of the questions I and others have raised on this thread?
"Only farms allowed" ??? Im resting my case on that note. 0 -
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brianthebard wrote: »Its not what you're saying is wrong or not, but it seems clear you are both referring to different time periods and possibly different parts of the Knocknacarra area, so for the purpose of answering one another's questions or debating the issue you are both wrong in that you are both answering different questions to what has been asked.
I'm not from Galway so I'm new to the whole issue, and I find it quite interesting. My impression is that Knocknacarra have been appropriated by some as an affluent address, or have attempted to claim it as such. I know from my research of the Galway Express that Taylor's Hill was an affluent area at least a century ago, and I don't think many would argue against that. I know that some people in the back of Highfield Park (where I live atm) have appropriated Taylor's Hill as their address again in an attempt to appear to be a well to do area. Anyways the point I'm making is that these things are changeable based on period or area, and for the thread to go forward people need to be a bit more specific in what they are referring to. For all intents and purposes Highfield Park is both Rahoon and Taylor's Hill at the same time, so one can be right and wrong to call it one or the other without expanding on the point.
Thanks Brianthebard, that's very useful - I see where you're coming from.
However, I think that the other poster is referring to the same time periods as me, but has a different view of the area both then and now. It would be interesting if the views were explained though.
For the sake of clarity, the area which is currently Knocknacarra was an area of small farms with one or two "big houses" in the 19th Century and until the 1940s to 1950s significant building didn't really happen in the area. At that stage, some houses were built by people who moved to the area, but they would have never had the cachet of say, Taylor's Hill, or Salthill at that time. Since then the development has primarily been housing estates.
None of the above could ever be considered posh.
The Galway Express is very interesting. I presume you've had a look at the Galway Vindicator as well? Hardiman also refers to Taylor's Hill. Was Taylor a bishop or a mayor? - I can't remember off the top of my head.
Without a doubt Taylor's Hill was (and is) a more upmarket area. I presume that this was because until relatively recently (say the 1950s or 1960s), it had pretty much unfettered views of the sea while being high enough to be away from the rabble
There's a café in the shopping centre in Wellpark, in the corner between the cinema and Eddie Rockets, that has a great aerial picture of Salthill taken in, I reckon, the late 1960s. It shows all of Salthill, significant parts of Taylor's Hill and parts of what's since become Kingston. It's fascinating to see how much the area has been built on since then.*
On Highfield, I think I recall that when it was being built, they tried to get a vehicular entrance onto Taylor's Hill. The idea was apparently that this would make it more desirable - supporting your view of the address that's used by some there.0 -
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In the 1870s there was a single parish called Rahoon covering Furbo to Corcullen and right into town. Tom Kenny has a piece here
http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/10353
I think Moycullen and Spiddal were one parish back then as well. Gradually new parishes were carved out of these twe megaparishes.
By 1912 most of what is now Knocknacarra was a rural area populated by small subsistence farmers in the parish of Barna. The rest was a rural area populated by small subsistence farmers in the parishes of Bushypark and Salthill and St Josephs, between them. Rahoon was a CoI parish I think, not a catholic one.
Knocknacarra, in 1970, would simply have referred to the crossroads at Knocknacarra cross and the hill south east of it. North of there was Clybaun and the Clybaun road. There were no estates back then...just a few houses on the Clybaun Road.
In around 1979 Bishop Casey announced a big churchbuilding program and a reorganisation of City Parishes. He built one church in Westside and one in Ballymoneen Road and one out by Tirellan ( and no doubt another few ) and created new parishes around some of them dating from then.
You may therefore thank Bishop Casey for creating Knocknacarra as an area rather than a crossroads and a small townland to its east and south at least in my opinion. A search of the excellent Advertiser archive ( archive.advertiser.ie) seems to confirm that.
Click
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,526086,724009,6
Select Historic 6 Inch to see the original area. Most of what is now considered to be Knocknacarra is Shangort Ballymoneen or Clybaun.
However the original Knocknacarra also included what we call Gentian Hill ( aka "Pill Hill" in the 1960s) and that bit is/was posh 1 -
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doubleglaze wrote: »"Old Knocknacarra" was and still is an affluent area. "Old Knocknacarra", as one might term it, centres around the Knocknacarra Road and includes the estate Brooklawn, which comprises decent sized family homes.
Yes but old/real Knocknacarra has inconveniently renamed itself to Gentian Hill or Kingston in recent years and 'modern' Knocknacarra is north of the Taylors Hill to Barna road
I call it Knocknatallaght...purely as an architectural synonym mind :cool:0 -
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