Heicopter Question

ronnieryan

I know this will sound stupid to some people but i need to settle an ongoing argument. If a helicopter somehow had enough fuel to fly for twelve hours and hovered in the one spot for that long, would it be half way round the world when it lands??
any help would be great

Einstein

em.

no.

pickarooney

No, it's hovering relative to the ground above which it's stationed and subject to the gravitational pull of the earth's core.

prinz

No, it would be hovering in one spot. Would the Earth have revolved half way around, yes, but then again you don't need a helicopter to enjoy that ride.

bonerm

Einstein wrote: »

em.

no.

Well you would know.

newmug

No. It would turn with the Earth due to the Earths gravity, so essentially it would stay in the same spot.

However, if you were in orbit, at the point where gravity stops pulling on the helicopter, but not far enough away to float off into space, then yes. I would say not only would you be halfway round the world, you would have seen it pass under you completely a good few times.

jimthemental

I think it would happen. After all it is a common occurance for hot air balloons to go up for a few hours from here and end up in Russia. It didn't take my degree to know that :rolleyes:

prinz

I remember once, going for a slamdunk in basketball, match winning point, I jumped, I stretched, I soared through the air, I slammed that ball into the basket, the only problem was I was left hanging off the basket at the wrong end of the court.:(

hobochris

jimthemental wrote: »

I think it would happen. After all it is a common occurance for hot air balloons to go up for a few hours from here and end up in Russia. It didn't take my degree to know that :rolleyes:

That's down to wind, which is an external factor in this scenario.

orourkeda

If the seagull follows the trawler is it because it thinks that sardines are going to be thrown into the sea.

Yes.

Duh.

AnonoBoy

Little know facts about helicopters from Dundalk's finest:

Jim Corr wrote:

Helicopters can't fly, they're all attached to clouds with metal coils. You can't see the coils because of an optical illusion caused by magnets and the sun's rays refracting off the snow at the top of the Andes.

It's part of the New World Order to keep us docile and obedient. "Behave or else we'll put you in the helicopter!"

Voodu Child

Before it takes off it's already moving at the same speed as the earth below it. Hence it already has momentum in this direction.

It would eventually lose this momentum if acted upon by an opposing force such as drag, but in actual fact the air around it is also moving at the roughly same speed with the earth (you'd have 1000mph winds everywhere if it wasnt), so it doesnt oppose the momentum of the helicopter.

OldGoat

It's a simple experiment to establish the facts OP. You jump into the air and a) measure how long you were in the air for, then b) measure the distance you travelled horizontally. Put a marker on the ground before you jump and then measure to where you land. You will have to repeat this experiment a number of times and then take the average of your jumps. I'd say a hundred repetitions would give you a fair numeric sample. When you have the average you can simply extrapolate to find your answer.
Plotting a graph would be fun.

Promac

The helicopter moves with the earth in the same way you move with a plane you're in as it flies. If you stood up inside a plane and jumped, would you be plastered all over the back wall? No.

The helicopter, and you in the plane, wasn't stationary to begin with - it was moving at the rotational speed of the earth's surface - around 1000mph. In order for the helicopter to look like it was "stationary" and ignoring the earth's rotation, it would need to accelerate up to 1000mph in the opposite direction to the earth's rotation. Even then, it would still be flying around the sun at about 67,000mph...

Logical Fallacy

OldGoat wrote: »

It's a simple experiment to establish the facts OP. You jump into the air and a) measure how long you were in the air for, then b) measure the distance you travelled horizontally. Put a marker on the ground before you jump and then measure to where you land. You will have to repeat this experiment a number of times and then take the average of your jumps. I'd say a hundred repetitions would give you a fair numeric sample. When you have the average you can simply extrapolate to find your answer.
Plotting a graph would be fun.

Plotting a graph is ALWAYS fun.

d.anthony

My cats breath smells like cat food.

Hannibal Smith

OldGoat wrote: »

It's a simple experiment to establish the facts OP. You jump into the air and a) measure how long you were in the air for, then b) measure the distance you travelled horizontally. Put a marker on the ground before you jump and then measure to where you land. You will have to repeat this experiment a number of times and then take the average of your jumps. I'd say a hundred repetitions would give you a fair numeric sample. When you have the average you can simply extrapolate to find your answer.
Plotting a graph would be fun.

I wonder how many people are trying this now....*not me*:o

Cookie_Monster

If you flew it up and hovered and only concentrated on height the craft would drift. this is due to wind, torque, the lizards etc and you would not end up in the same place 12 hours later.

Pinturicchio

If I stood still for 12 hours, would I be half way around the world?

Cookie_Monster

Pinturicchio wrote: »

If I stood still for 12 hours, would I be half way around the world?

no but that's cos you still touching the ground

mikerowsopht

I think this is a job for MYTHBUSTERS

Manic Moran

At the equator, the earth's surface is spinning at about 1,000mph. No helicopter can have an indicated forward airspeed of that magnitude, so, no.

NTM

newmug

newmug wrote: »

No. It would turn with the Earth due to the Earths gravity, so essentially it would stay in the same spot.

However, if you were in orbit, at the point where gravity stops pulling on the helicopter, but not far enough away to float off into space, then yes. I would say not only would you be halfway round the world, you would have seen it pass under you completely a good few times.

Wrong. For a body to orbit the earth it has to be travelling extremley fast, such that the centripetal force caused by its circular path around the earth exactly counters the force of gravity at its orbital altitude. This is why the space shuttle must move at 17,000+ miles per hour to attain even low earth orbit. If it were not moving this fast it would just fall back to earth. It is not possible to just "hang" above the earth (and before someone mentions geostationary orbit at 36,000 km altitude, that doesn't count).

Donny5

ronnieryan wrote: »

I know this will sound stupid to some people but i need to settle an ongoing argument. If a helicopter somehow had enough fuel to fly for twelve hours and hovered in the one spot for that long, would it be half way round the world when it lands??
any help would be great

No, because when the helicopter takes off, it has the same angular momentum as the Earth beneath it. In the absence of any force acting on it, the helicopter will retain that angular momentum for the duration of it's flight.

pickarooney wrote: »

No, it's hovering relative to the ground above which it's stationed and subject to the gravitational pull of the earth's core.

The helicopter would be subject to the gravitational pull of all mass in the universe, but that's not why it would hover in the same place.

newmug wrote: »

No. It would turn with the Earth due to the Earths gravity, so essentially it would stay in the same spot.

However, if you were in orbit, at the point where gravity stops pulling on the helicopter, but not far enough away to float off into space, then yes. I would say not only would you be halfway round the world, you would have seen it pass under you completely a good few times.

There is no distance where the gravitational pull of the Earth's mass would no longer act upon the helicopter. Orbits don't work that way. You can even have a geostationary orbit, where the satellite remains fixed over the same spot on the Earth.

Deleted User wrote: »

Wrong. For a body to orbit the earth it has to be travelling extremley fast, such that the centripetal force caused by its circular path around the earth exactly counters the force of gravity at its orbital altitude. This is why the space shuttle must move at 17,000+ miles per hour to attain even low earth orbit. If it were not moving this fast it would just fall back to earth. It is not possible to just "hang" above the earth (and before someone mentions geostationary orbit at 36,000 km altitude, that doesn't count).

This isn't right, either. When a satellite orbits a body, gravity is the centripetal force. Centripetal force is the force that causes the curvature of the satellite's path.

AckwelFoley

Best thread since facekicker

Donny5

Donny5 wrote: »

This isn't right, either. When a satellite orbits a body, gravity is the centripetal force. Centripetal force is the force that causes the curvature of the satellite's path.

Sorry my bad, I meant centrifugal force. It's been quite a while since I did any physics in college.

...and yes I know centrifugal force is a fictitious force dependent on a rotating frame of refrence, but it will suffice for this discussion.

arybvtcw0eolkf

I think if its a really strong helicopter that it might blow the earth off its axis, causing a second ice age.

But thats just my opinion.

johnmcdnl

it just doesn't work that way - the earth gravity keeps the helicopter stuck in the one spot basically... same reason as why if you jump you land in the exact same spot despite the earth moving at around say 900mph being an average value for around Ireland

that means if you jumped in the air for say 1 second you would end up 0.25 miles down the road - (900 / 60minutes / 60secs = 0.25miles)

so in answer to your quesiton - no it wouldn't be half way round the world

Earthhorse

What if the helicopter had two sets of blades?

Would you stay in the same spot in half the time?

Gerry Asstrix

Most stupid/best ever opening post of the year?

Donny5

johnmcdnl wrote: »

it just doesn't work that way - the earth gravity keeps the helicopter stuck in the one spot basically... same reason as why if you jump you land in the exact same spot despite the earth moving at around say 900mph being an average value for around Ireland

that means if you jumped in the air for say 1 second you would end up 0.25 miles down the road - (900 / 60minutes / 60secs = 0.25miles)

so in answer to your quesiton - no it wouldn't be half way round the world

The reason the helicopter wouldn't move is not because of gravity. At least not directly. It's because the helicopter has the same angular momentum as the surface of the Earth it took off from. It will retain that angular momentum for the duration of it's flight unless a force acts upon it in the plane tangental to the Earth.

Poor Uncle Tom

If all the chainsaws in China were started and revved up at the same time the world would implode or China would shear off or something cool like that....:cool:

dilallio

Manic Moran wrote: »

At the equator, the earth's surface is spinning at about 1,000mph.
NTM

Ahhhhhhhh!.
Now it makes sense why all those African athletes are winning everything these days - they have to run extra fast just to stay still cos they live closer to the equator.

Probably why they're thinner too .....

Gillington

Deleted User wrote: »

Wrong. For a body to orbit the earth it has to be travelling extremley fast, such that the centripetal force caused by its circular path around the earth exactly counters the force of gravity at its orbital altitude. This is why the space shuttle must move at 17,000+ miles per hour to attain even low earth orbit. If it were not moving this fast it would just fall back to earth. It is not possible to just "hang" above the earth (and before someone mentions geostationary orbit at 36,000 km altitude, that doesn't count).

But what about geostationary orbit at 36,000 km altitude though?

Gillington

Gillington wrote: »

But what about geostationary orbit at 36,000 km altitude though?

It doesn't count. :pac:

ronnieryan

Thanks for the help. I think i understand now
Oh ye and I lost the bet

source

The low orbit argument is null and void from the start as the air isn't dense enough at those altitudes to allow the blades on the helicopter support the weight of the helicopter. The average ceiling for a rotational wing aircraft is around 20,000ft.

Adam

and it's helicopter.

The_B_Man

Thats an interesting one for that new Virgin space travel yoke! They'll probably fly up from London, and 20 minutes later land in Mexico or somewhere! Suppose it'd be a much quicker way of crossing the atlantic than a regular airplane!

OldGoat

The_B_Man wrote: »

Thats an interesting one for that new Virgin space travel yoke! They'll probably fly up from London, and 20 minutes later land in Mexico or somewhere! Suppose it'd be a much quicker way of crossing the atlantic than a regular airplane!

That would depend on whether the world is spinning clockwise or anticlockwise at the time. I'm sure they'll factor that into their costs though.

Earthhorse

OldGoat wrote: »

That would depend on whether the world is spinning clockwise or anticlockwise at the time. I'm sure they'll factor that into their costs though.

How would they cost a flight this weekend, with the clock going back and everything?

ottostreet

Why are engines measured in horsepower?

What defines the strength of one horse?

What if the horse is deformed, or missing a leg, or just a smaller than average horse? Would a deformed horse still be 'one horsepower'?

Cookie_Monster

ottostreet wrote: »

Why are engines measured in horsepower?

What defines the strength of one horse?

What if the horse is deformed, or missing a leg, or just a smaller than average horse? Would a deformed horse still be 'one horsepower'?

they're not. it just we still use it like miles and pints.

correct measurement is kilowatts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower

bigneacy

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Little know facts about helicopters from Dundalk's finest:

On behalf of Dundalk, we would like to take this opportunity to formally apologise for Jim Corr.

cock robin

If the chopper could climb outside the atmosphere around 80 miles should do the effect you desire is achievable. Kittinger was the first human to do this in a balloon. But alas there is no air and therefore no lift from the propellers. Thats why we have rockets and such like. Ryan air might like the idea.

Bonito

If a helicopter turns upside down, and puts the rotors in to reverse, can it hover upside down?

Donny5

cock robin wrote: »

If the chopper could climb outside the atmosphere around 80 miles should do the effect you desire is achievable.

No, it would not. Even if the helicopter could fly that high, it would still have the angular momentum it had when it took off. Look, just read the Wikipedia page.

Stercus Accidit

This is one of those bloody troll physics questions.

See this example;

Infinite fuel car

Donny5

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

This is one of those bloody troll physics questions.

See this example;

Infinite fuel car

Oh, that makes sense. I was wondering where this crap was coming from.