Ministers Cars

Patdusty2010

Hi,

Why can't our Ministers get around on their own transport? Having a driver and a luxury car to be driven around in, especially in these times, seems a bit much. Its a major expense and I am sure it is abused just like everything else!

Does anyone know how much this costs a year for the taxpayer?

FreudianSlippers

But sure it employs drivers.

starbelgrade

Patdusty2010 wrote: »

Hi,

Why can't our Ministers get around on their own transport?

Coz it's illegal to drive & count money at the same time.

Gunsfortoys

20th thread so far about this. Go out and ask OP.

Biggins

Patdusty2010 wrote: »

...Does anyone know how much this costs a year for the taxpayer?

Last figure quoted was €11 Million over 2 years.
See: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1015/1224281155552.html

Snakeblood

Patdusty2010 wrote: »

Hi,

Why can't our Ministers get around on their own transport? Having a driver and a luxury car to be driven around in, especially in these times, seems a bit much. Its a major expense and I am sure it is abused just like everything else!

Does anyone know how much this costs a year for the taxpayer?

I suppose Ministers are theoretically working in the cars, if you've seen In the Loop or shows like that, they're always busy in them. Time driving is time not spent steering what I like to call the ship of state.

Also they need a good driver to get them away from all the people who want to throw sh!te at them.

FreudianSlippers

Patdusty2010 wrote: »

Does anyone know how much this costs a year for the taxpayer?

Apparently €11million over the past 2 years. A drop in the bucket compared to the waste going on elsewhere. I think they should drive themselves too, but the focus on it is a distraction from the real questions.

Government jets, though, are quite expensive. We could pay for them to take the train or public flights for a fraction of the cost.

ItsAWindUp

Why can't they get the bus/train/Luas if they really are "representatives of the people"?

Random

i heard one estimate in the paper of 80k / year to keep it going including the driver. it's just one of many things that may be deemed excessive.

bmw535d

id much rather see them stopping all these private flucking jets and getting ordinary business class flights.:mad:

We would all be doing the same in their position so why complain.

the purple tin

Wren Blue Miser wrote: »

We would all be doing the same in their position so why complain.

Because we're Irish:p

bonerm

Come to think of it why do we even pay them at all? Can't they live on fresh air and sunshine?

mickdw

The cars themselves are not overly expensive. They are driving audi A6, E class merc etc. They are not posh by todays standards. The real costs are associated with the drivers salary though. I read that it was near 200k per year - covering 2 x garda drivers, car costs etc. If they drove themselves, there would be huge savings and it would look very good from a public view point.

FreudianSlippers

If they're not cut in the budget I'd be shocked. It'll make fúck all difference as it's nothing in the grand scheme of things.

DementoR

OisinT wrote: »

If they're not cut in the budget I'd be shocked. It'll make fúck all difference as it's nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Well every little helps!And at least it will show they are willing to make sacrifices also.

hondasam

OisinT wrote: »

If they're not cut in the budget I'd be shocked. It'll make fúck all difference as it's nothing in the grand scheme of things.

It’s the principle because the are so detached from reality the have not got a clue.

Zebra3

I'd rather the cunts couldn't claim their pensions til they're 65.

Micheal Martin saying he needs his teaching job to go back if he loses his seat as a TD while he'll be pulling a pension of around a hundred grand a year.

Blood sucker. :mad:

KINGVictor

Patdusty2010 wrote: »

Hi,

Why can't our Ministers get around on their own transport? Having a driver and a luxury car to be driven around in, especially in these times, seems a bit much. Its a major expense and I am sure it is abused just like everything else!

Does anyone know how much this costs a year for the taxpayer?

Comon OP, they are elected officials and having such priviledges are basic perquisites of the office they hold.

In reality, compared to a lot of countries I find their mode of transport to be quite modest. For example, the Taoiseach is usually driven in car with another car escorting behind...far cry from what you will see in most countries.
Just because we disagree with their handling of the economy shouldn't debase the office they hold.

Zebra3

KINGVictor wrote: »

Just because we disagree with their handling of the economy shouldn't debase the office they hold.

They debased the offices they hold.

They sold out the people.

OPENROAD

KINGVictor wrote: »

Comon OP, they are elected officials and having such priviledges are basic perquisites of the office they hold.

In reality, compared to a lot of countries I find their mode of transport to be quite modest. For example, the Taoiseach is usually driven in car with another car escorting behind...far cry from what you will see in most countries.
Just because we disagree with their handling of the economy shouldn't debase the office they hold.

In fairness they are extremely well paid with excellent benefits and perks,with the huge cuts etc coming, to have any credibility they have to be seen to significantly cutting the benefits they receive.

Skyuser

They are ministers of state. They can't be expected to drive themselves around. They are working while in the back of the car.

OPENROAD

Do former Taoiseach also get cars and a driver ?

KINGVictor

OPENROAD wrote: »

In fairness they are extremely well paid with excellent benefits and perks,with the huge cuts etc coming, to have any credibility they have to be seen to significantly cutting the benefits they receive.

I totally agree with you that they are well paid...no doubt.

The issue is that irrespective of their previous actions or inactions and how it has contributed to the current economic impasse, the truth is that they hold esteemed positions that must be respected, and as such come with attached priviledges ( and I am not referring to their salary structure).

I am not trying to play Jack Bauer here , but those offices are intrinsically part of an important wider identity and just because Minister X messes up should not mean we take away the priviledge...it means we replace him.

hondasam

Skyuser wrote: »

They are ministers of state. They can't be expected to drive themselves around. They are working while in the back of the car.

why not no one picks me up in the morning and drops me at work and hangs around all day until its time to bring me home again. the wanted the luas for dublin let them make use of it. the sure as hell did not spend to much money in the west of ireland on public transport.

OPENROAD

KINGVictor wrote: »

I totally agree with you that they are well paid...no doubt.

The issue is that irrespective of their previous actions or inactions and how it has contributed to the current economic impasse, the truth is that they hold esteemed positions that must be respected, and as such come with attached priviledges ( and I am not referring to their salary structure).

I am not trying to play Jack Bauer here , but those offices are intrinsically part of an important wider identity and just because Minister X messes up should not mean we take away the priviledge...it means we replace him.

Just feel if things are as bad as it appears, they have to be seen to lead from the top even if the cost savings are in the scheme of things tiny, they can't come out and say things are going to be very very hard and standards of living are going to drop, while at the same time not cutting back on perks.

Is it the case that when a minister travels abroad, they can bring husband/wife with them?

lostwallet

The Taoiseach and Minister for Justice should be provided with relatively modest cars and Garda drivers. The rest can get the bus, train, bike, taxi at their own expense.

It was that knobhead Ahern who opened the door to Taosigh driving top of the range Mercedes cars. A Mercedes car costing 50k less, and the associted reduction in running costs, is more than adeqaute for the premier of a small island nation.

On a side note, I work close to Merrion Street, and like many people went to work over the w/end incl when the Marathon was on.

The assocaited restrictions meant I had to arrive in before the street closures were in place and leave work after they were lifited. Opening up that gaf we overpaid for in the Park for a one day think in, including security/Garda costs, is more horse shít from this inept shower.

Guy:Incognito

Patdusty2010 wrote: »

Its a major expense and I am sure it is abused just like everything else!

How can you abuse a (I'm sure) 24hr personal driver service? Unless you are abusing the driver sexually or something, theres not many ways to abuse a system where your could probably have him driving 24/7 anyway if you wanted.

hondasam

Stekelly wrote: »

How can you abuse a (I'm sure) 24hr personal driver service? Unless you are abusing the driver sexually or something, theres not many ways to abuse a system where your could probably have him driving 24/7 anyway if you wanted.

the car is for the minister but is used for his family and friends etc.

Patdusty2010

Stekelly wrote: »

How can you abuse a (I'm sure) 24hr personal driver service? Unless you are abusing the driver sexually or something, theres not many ways to abuse a system where your could probably have him driving 24/7 anyway if you wanted.

The cars are there for their work purposes. Many of them use it as a taxi after a few drinks etc..thats abuse.

Rubik.

It was more than a bit maddening to see them on the 6 0'clock news being chauffeured into Lenister House to attend a meeting to decide how much cuts have to made over the next 4 years. Then for them to come out and tell us it was going to be 15 billion, only for them to be chauffeured off again. It didn't look good.

lostwallet

Rubik. wrote: »

It was more than a bit maddening to see them on the 6 0'clock news being chauffeured into Lenister House to attend a meeting to decide how much cuts have to made over the next 4 years. Then for them to come out and tell us it was going to be 15 billion, only for them to be chauffeured off again. It didn't look good.

Im not concerned with it not 'looking good'.

Im concerned with wasting peoples hard earned money - and fúcking loads of it at that.

Rubik.

lostwallet wrote: »

Im not concerned with it not 'looking good'.

Im concerned with wasting peoples hard earned money - and fúcking loads of it at that.

The reason it was maddening and "didn't look good" was because of the 11 million a year wasted on them.

maxwell smart

Its like a banana republic watching all the state cars arrive. Only the Taoiseach, minister for Justice and the president should have cars on call. The rest should have a limited number of pool cars that they need to book if they can justify it. Getting a lift home does not count.

And they should have 1 state car parked in each regional Garda HQ to use if a minister flys down/up the country to save the present crazy situation of the car driving down from Dublin to meet his plane. The car at the Garda Depot would need to be booked and when not in use could be used by the Garda.

Look at David Cameron, he bikes to work sometimes (I know it's a bit of a publicly stunt but imagine Cowan doing that!).

I read somewhere that we have more Government cars than the German government (no link so could be wrong).

Guy:Incognito

maxwell smart wrote: »

Its like a banana republic watching all the state cars arrive. Only the Taoiseach, minister for Justice and the president should have cars on call..

Why the president over someone with an actual inportant job?

Sure didnt David Norris say he'll cycle everywhere. Just get him elected and theres a saving straight away :-)

FreudianSlippers

Stekelly wrote: »

Why the president over someone with an actual inportant job?

Sure didnt David Norris say he'll cycle everywhere. Just get him elected and theres a saving straight away :-)

:rolleyes: getting sick of explaining the President's job in every thread

SeaFields

I'm sick to the back teeth of this bullsh!t argument that there is no point in cutting something because it is too small to make a difference. You add all the things together that are too small to make a difference you end up with alot. Possibly enough that might mean special needs teachers staying employed or help keep a palliative care unit open, etc., etc.

Guy:Incognito

hondasam wrote: »

the car is for the minister but is used for his family and friends etc.

If the car is on call all the time anyway, all it costs extra to drive the familt around is whatever petrol goes in anyway. Pretty much the lowest priority in fairness.

hondasam

Stekelly wrote: »

If the car is on call all the time anyway, all it costs extra to drive the familt around is whatever petrol goes in anyway. Pretty much the lowest priority in fairness.

Yes I know but it has to stop somewhere and with all the expenses the claim the can well afford their own car and petrol.

Skyuser

hondasam wrote: »

why not no one picks me up in the morning and drops me at work and hangs around all day until its time to bring me home again. the wanted the luas for dublin let them make use of it. the sure as hell did not spend to much money in the west of ireland on public transport.

That's just ridiculous. They are ministers of state, it is not a regular job. However I do think a better system would be the Dail having a number of cars and Ministers booking every week in advance.

kowloon

Let them keep the car and driver, take the cost out of their salary. Problem solved.

_feedback_

I am by no means a FF/Government fan. However, it seems that everyone is beginning to moan about bloody everything.

I agree that it looked a bit ridiculous the other evening to see the procession of cars going to famleigh.

These cars are an essential tool for them. Most of them travel a lot. They work in the cars. They need the drivers.

I know I would prefer to see a minister working in the back of a car rather than standing at a bus stop or waiting for a train.

Ghost Estate

mickdw wrote: »

The cars themselves are not overly expensive. They are driving audi A6, E class merc etc. They are not posh by todays standards. The real costs are associated with the drivers salary though. I read that it was near 200k per year - covering 2 x garda drivers, car costs etc. If they drove themselves, there would be huge savings and it would look very good from a public view point.

if they drove themselves they wouldn't be nearly as inclined to increase motor tax, make the NCT harder, introduce toll roads and all the other sh1te they do to fleece car owners

trad

Dev had a Rolls Royce to drive him around. It's not an FF thing either. Dick Springs car was involved in an accident where one of the passengers was a greyhound and Garret Fitzgerald had a Saab because they had a factory option of a swivel front seat (fitted) to allow a family member to be carried in the car.

ILA

OisinT wrote: »

But sure it employs drivers.

You're an legal eagle. You should know that the drivers are Gardai and so it's tying up part of the coercive arm of the judiciary.

Wicklowrider

Warren Buffet has proved that he can use public transport adequately - his own car is ancient and was bough cheap because it was damged. Look how productive and successful he is. If our government was half as productive as old man Buffet is we wouldn't be near this mess.
In cases where there is a clear need for them to be driven why can't they hire a reputable driver and car? And feck off with any security crap - theres dozens of drivers trained for this work available ( besides the fact that if anyone wanted to "get" them it would have happened by now).
BTW - whats all ths work they do in back of cars? Are posters referring to the paddywhackery that has bankrupted us?

SeaFields

I think this use of initiative is very impressive.

TWO BULLETPROOF BMWs seized from criminals are now being used as Garda cars, according to the annual report of the Criminal Assets Bureau (Cab).

from Irish times a few days ago.

Saadyst

Basically people understand that ministers need cars etc. They have difficulty understanding the private jet, and drivers going all over the country to meet a minister when he gets off the jet to drive him around locally - instead of having a car just meet him from there.

But when you have well and truly failed to prevent making a complete bollox of the economy, and are going to be telling everyone there's €7b of cuts on the way... you'd think they would have the basic common decency and respect for their fellow countryman, to say:

""We know this is tough, so we're going to cut away any excesses that we can do without. We'll make an extra effort, just as all of you are. We'll reduce our salaries by x%, reform our expenses system and introduce more transparency to it. We'll endeavour to reduce the cost of running this government as much as we can - this will be done via independent commission to report on where we can reduce and cut costs within a time frame of X"

Something along the lines of that. Instead of the two fingers.

RMD

What people don't seem to be taking into account is that the Ministers are often working in these cars in between appointments, meetings, speeches etc. Make them drive and you're cutting their potential working time hugely.

And if I'm not mistaken the Ministers cars are fitted with "undercover lights" Ie they don't stand out but if in a rush the driver (a Garda) can flick them on and get through traffic quicker? If ministers had to drive themselves we couldn't do this or we'd find another thing to complain about.

The private jet is just a pisstake. Private jets should only be used when traveling abroad, and if in that case no commercial flights are available.

Notorious97

SeaFields wrote: »

I'm sick to the back teeth of this bullsh!t argument that there is no point in cutting something because it is too small to make a difference. You add all the things together that are too small to make a difference you end up with alot. Possibly enough that might mean special needs teachers staying employed or help keep a palliative care unit open, etc., etc.

Was scrolling through this thread to see if this point was made before i made it, this is exactly correct.

Im sick of hearing oh its a drop in the bucket, sure if we saved all these drops there wouldnt be a bloody bucket!

They shouldnt be driven everywhere, get your own car or mode of transport, we are in a huge financial crisis, that fat cu*t Cowen is paid shocking money, sh*t id volunteer to do his job for 100K a year without expenses! If they dont reduce their salaries in this budget down by at least 50%+ its a disgrace, they cannot moan about benefit cheats when they wont lead by example and take a hefty pay cut, greedy bast*rds!

I hope Cowen reads boards, if you are reading, go fu*k yourself you fat overpaid useless cu*t

Mr Tim Buktoo

Cosgrave is in his 90's and still has his car and a garda plonked outside his house every day. handy job for that garda