Second Level Teaching

DavidKelly1

Ok so I am considering Second Level teaching as a future career choice. Subject-wise I am leaning towads English & Geography/ English & Music..
What would be the route to follow if I wished to teach the subjects mentioned?. Any help appreciated, thanks

Ciaramb92

I'd imagine a degree in the both (an Arts degree) and then a hDip afterwards.

spurious

Degree and PGDE is the way most people do it.

Please closely look at the numbers of unemployed teachers, the numbers being pumped out of teacher training courses and colleges here and in the UK and be realistic about employment prospects in Ireland.

DavidKelly1

Thanks for your replies . Hey Spurious, I am in 5th year at the moment so it would be at least 6 years until i'm qualified, do you think it will have picked up any more in that space of time?.

Do you think maybe doing a course like Arts(English&Geography) with Creative Writing would increase my employment chances?. Any more comments feel free to say!!

spurious

The more subjects you can offer the better. Try and get other qualifications like first aid, or best of all a licence to drive a mini-bus - that would be a big 'in' for any school.

Whether things will improve, I don't know. We were expecting loads of new jobs as the 1968-1973 intake of teachers (post 'free' education) started to retire but that hasn't materialised. In the frenzy of public sector cuts, I wouldn't be hopeful, but we might have an election and then, who knows?

DavidKelly1

Well i'm a qualified Piano Teacher if that would help?. Would doing a First Aid Course help employment?

spurious

DavidKelly1 wrote: »

Well i'm a qualified Piano Teacher if that would help?. Would doing a First Aid Course help employment?

Yes, if the school you're applying to work in doesn't have a qualified person on staff - and many don't.

Any specialist skill you can add on will help you get work. A 'Speech and Drama' qualification?

Most teachers these days start off subbing first - a class or two here and there everyday, though sometimes no work on a given day. If they're lucky, they might get a few hours a week of their own classes in the second year. A jackpot for a new teacher would be a maternity or sick leave, where you would get someone's entire timetable for a fixed period.

It seems to be after four years and up that people are getting on to reasonable hours these days, though the elusive full-time permanent job seems to be gone. It's all 'Contracts of Indefinite Duration' now.

Of the 'Dippers' (PGDE people) we've had in our school over the last three years or so (we'd have 4 or 5 a year), only one is in a full hours job now and she was lucky enough to get it first year out. That would certainly not be the norm.

coffeelover

I'm in 5th year too and I'd absolutly love to become a teacher.. Subject wise i'd go for a music and business. But i'd really worry that I wouldn't get a job when i'm qualified

gaeilgegrinds1

Steer clear of Business or English in my opinion. I don't know anyone who got a job with the recently. That said, if that's where you passion lies you'll obviously be more interested in those subjects.

dambarude

coffeelover wrote: »

I'm in 5th year too and I'd absolutly love to become a teacher.. Subject wise i'd go for a music and business. But i'd really worry that I wouldn't get a job when i'm qualified

What Gaeilgegrinds said, and it will be difficult to find a degree that combines music and business. I don't think one exists, but I could be wrong. You'd end up having two do two separate degrees if you wanted to be recognised in both of them.

coffeelover

What Gaeilgegrinds said, and it will be difficult to find a degree that combines music and business. I don't think one exists, but I could be wrong. You'd end up having two do two separate degrees if you wanted to be recognised in both of them.

Ya thats true but I don't know what other subject to put with music

spurious

coffeelover wrote: »

Ya thats true but I don't know what other subject to put with music

Mater Dei do a Religion and Music teaching degree.
Irish and Music, if you could do it, would be a pretty good combination.

coffeelover

Mater Dei do a Religion and Music teaching degree.
Irish and Music, if you could do it, would be a pretty good combination.

Ya i had thought of doing irish but my standard is waaaay down I just about scaped a C in the JC..

dambarude

You can do a BA in Music with English, French, Gaeilge, German, Geography, History, Religion or Maths in Mary Immaculate College Limerick (There are other subjects too, but they're not taught in secondary schools). The last time I checked the degree was accredited by the Teaching Council for teaching those subjects. You'd have to do the PGDE (H Dip) afterwards to be qualified though. And obviously some of the subjects in that list are in no demand in secondary schools.

nermal15

You can do a degree in Religion, Education and either History, English or Music in Mater Dei Institute. No need for an extra degree!

UpTheSlashers

spurious wrote: »

The more subjects you can offer the better. Try and get other qualifications like first aid, or best of all a licence to drive a mini-bus - that would be a big 'in' for any school.

Whether things will improve, I don't know. We were expecting loads of new jobs as the 1968-1973 intake of teachers (post 'free' education) started to retire but that hasn't materialised. In the frenzy of public sector cuts, I wouldn't be hopeful, but we might have an election and then, who knows?

Ive seen you mention this before, whats the benefit of being qualified to drive a mini-bus?

fonpokno

coffeelover wrote: »

Ya thats true but I don't know what other subject to put with music

Trinity do a Music Education course. My sister did it, she's qualified to teach Leaving Cert Music and up to Junior Cert in History. You can do History to a Leaving Cert standard too but she chose to drop it halfway through. At the end you're fully qualified without having to do an extra H Dip. Just another option.

Ciaramb92

UpTheSlashers wrote: »

Ive seen you mention this before, whats the benefit of being qualified to drive a mini-bus?

I second that.. I mean I have only ever seen one school that had their own mini-bus and that was a Galway City school...

Our school, the lads next door and all the schools in surrounding towns rent buses when needed, seems much more cost efficient that paying for the keep of a mini-bus, insurance and all that..

I wouldn't recommend wasting the time or money needed to get a bus license.

UpTheSlashers

I wasnt arguing that it wouldnt be beneficial, i just wasnt aware that there were schools which had their own buses driven by teachers.

coffeelover

You can do a degree in Religion, Education and either History, English or Music in Mater Dei Institute. No need for an extra degree!

That sounds like a great degree.. Would you have to do a H Dip. afterwards though?

Trinity do a Music Education course. My sister did it, she's qualified to teach Leaving Cert Music and up to Junior Cert in History. You can do History to a Leaving Cert standard too but she chose to drop it halfway through. At the end you're fully qualified without having to do an extra H Dip. Just another option.

Ya the music course in trinity sounds amazing.. Could you do any subject other than history?. Does your sister finding it ok in relation to getting jobs?

readystudypass

coffeelover wrote: »

That sounds like a great degree.. Would you have to do a H Dip. afterwards though?

No. The 4 year Mater Dei Teacher Education degree means you are qualified to the same extent as somebody who completed The H.Dip

spurious

UpTheSlashers wrote: »

I wasnt arguing that it wouldnt be beneficial, i just wasnt aware that there were schools which had their own buses driven by teachers.

Quite a number of schools in the Dublin area have them but can't use them because there is no-one on staff to drive them, or free at the time they are needed.
It works out very expensive to keep hiring buses for sports events etc. I suppose it would depend how big a school it is and how active the students are in competitions as to whether it would work out cheaper to have your own.

dambarude

It must be a regional thing, no schools own buses in my area.

randylonghorn

NUI Maynooth do either a Single Honours degree in Music, or a joint Honours BA in Music and one of a range of teaching subjects.

DavidKelly1

AFAIK You can combine Music and Business as part of a BA in NUIM..

gaeilgegrinds1

Thing is you don't need your own bus. I've a bus license as do quite a few of the teachers in our school and we use the community bus at very little cost.

randylonghorn

DavidKelly1 wrote: »

AFAIK You can combine Music and Business as part of a BA in NUIM..

You can.

I'd be inclined to agree with others though that business teachers are not / will not be in short supply.

fonpokno

coffeelover wrote: »

Ya the music course in trinity sounds amazing.. Could you do any subject other than history?. Does your sister finding it ok in relation to getting jobs?

I think it's history only but don't take my word for that, she graduated a few years ago. Bear in mind also that my sister didn't do leaving cert history herself and it wasn't an issue for her. She doesn't actually teach in secondary now, (she hates teenagers ) but she wasn't short of offers from where she did teaching practice, she teaches piano privately and she's doing primary teaching at the minute. Got a lot of work in primary schools as music teacher and special needs assistant. They all seemed to love the fact that she had music.

DavidKelly1

Hi fonpokno did your sister do work placements as part of the Music Education Course?. Also what instruments does she play?. I'm in Grade 7 Piano but would I need more instruments than this?..

coffeelover

I think it's history only but don't take my word for that, she graduated a few years ago. Bear in mind also that my sister didn't do leaving cert history herself and it wasn't an issue for her. She doesn't actually teach in secondary now, (she hates teenagers ) but she wasn't short of offers from where she did teaching practice, she teaches piano privately and she's doing primary teaching at the minute. Got a lot of work in primary schools as music teacher and special needs assistant. They all seemed to love the fact that she had music.

O thats good because I'm not doing history for leaving cert. Ya i play piano but I'm only on grade 5 .. God that sounds brillant. And was she just teaching them music in the primary school?

randylonghorn

Rockshandy90 wrote: »

Ya an arts degree and the H dip is the way to go for ur subjects. and if u are going to be a teacher its easier to get a job if u have a core subject like english because every1 has to do it!

also when ur in 1st year in arts u pick 4 subjects and then u choose 2 to do in 2nd year until the end. If u want to be a teacher pick 2 proper subjects as ur other 2 in 1st year! I know it might be interesting to do psychology but u will be more employable if u do like history and geography or something because if u do the subject in 1st year u can teach it to JC level.

Rockshandy, welcome to Boards.

Please note that textspeak is not welcome on these forums.

fonpokno

DavidKelly1 wrote: »

Hi fonpokno did your sister do work placements as part of the Music Education Course?. Also what instruments does she play?. I'm in Grade 7 Piano but would I need more instruments than this?..

Yes they do teaching practice as part of the course, a few 2 and 3 week (i think) placements spread over the course. She did started off doing piano but changed to singing. Grade 7 piano would be plenty, I got into college with grade 7 piano. You do the written entrance exam and audition for it anyway.

coffeelover wrote: »

O thats good because I'm not doing history for leaving cert. Ya i play piano but I'm only on grade 5 .. God that sounds brillant. And was she just teaching them music in the primary school?

No harm in chancing your arm and going for the course anyway.

coffeelover

No harm in chancing your arm and going for the course anyway.

Ya only thing I live ages away from trinity .. Galway, Limerick and Cork would be closer.

eoinseoighe12

Hi all,

I'm in 6th Year will be going to college next year. Therefore, I am in the process of deciding what I plan on studying. I've been constantly thinking about what I would like to do since TY really. I have narrowed down my choices to (1) Primary Teaching St. Pats/ NUI Maynooth OR (2) Irish and French Trinity OR UCD OR NUI Maynooth with the plan to go on and do Secondary School Teaching. My points range is 355 - 470.

I have thought about this long and hard and I know that teaching at either level is what I am passionate about and something I would look forward to developing a career in.

I obviously know that the current climate isn't the best for entering the profession..... lower pay of new recruits, more hours a week etc.... However, it is what I really, really want to; the work life balance suits my desire to do lots of travelling and I can pursue other sporting and voluntary activities which I am interested in. I am also very lucky to be inspired by such wonderful, young teachers in my school who I really look up to as something I aspire to be like - likewise for the teachers I had in primary school.

I have worked out that if I were to pursue (A) Primary Teaching I would graduate in June 2017 from St. Pats or (B) Secondary Teaching June 2019 when I complete the 2 year PGDE.

Also, with regards Primary teaching, would I have an advantage applying for posts given that I am a man and the ratio of male to female primary teachers is so low? I suspect I may have a better chance applying for jobs in the new schools to be built around the country in the next 5 years or so....

With regard to the new schools being built at both levels between now and 2017, as a newly qualified primary/ secondary teacher of Irish and French, would I have a good shot at a post in any of these schools?

For Irish and French as a combination for teaching, are my job prospects good? I have spoken to three of my teachers in the last week, and they specifically mentioned how there is such a high demand for Irish teachers (thats not the only reason why I want to study it, I love doing it in school!) that I would find it relatively easy to get a job.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and answer my questions - I would really appreciate some feedback from teachers at primary/ second level...

Thanks a million!

spurious

There's a demand for Irish teachers with a good standard of Irish.

Being a man is unlikely to make any difference jobs-wise at second level. I can't speak for primary, but there are plenty unemployed male primary teachers too.

There's quite a backlog of teachers qualifying every year (and has been for a number of years) waiting to take these supposed new jobs in the new schools, so it won't be as easy as you seem to think. You'll still most likely do the hard slog of a number of years on small hours until you work your way to a CID, hopefully one for a decent number of hours.

I know for some recent posts (part-time) in our school, they didn't bother interviewing anyone who didn't have at least a couple of year's experience. They had so many applicants it wasn't funny, for hours varying from 4 to 14. We even had people with Ph.D. degrees applying for a four hour job. Terrible.

Sunny!!

just wondering has anyone input on this?


teaching looks like one of my courses for next years cao.

I'm just wondering which course i would have better prospects with.

UL - chemistry and physics
or
UL - Ag science, biology and chemistry.

spurious

Sunny!! wrote: »

just wondering has anyone input on this?


teaching looks like one of my courses for next years cao.

I'm just wondering which course i would have better prospects with.

UL - chemistry and physics
or
UL - Ag science, biology and chemistry.

The one with biology. Much more schools offer it. Make sure that the Teaching Council recognises whatever degree you choose.

Sunny!!

spurious wrote: »

The one with biology. Much more schools offer it. Make sure that the Teaching Council recognises whatever degree you choose.

id rather teach biology, but wouldnt there by less a supply for physics teachers?

spurious

Sunny!! wrote: »

id rather teach biology, but wouldnt there by less a supply for physics teachers?

Yes, theoretically, but very few people do it, so you would be limiting yourself to a small number of schools in the first place.

Physics at LC 2012 - 4753 HL + 1620 OL

Chemistry at LC 2012 - 6705 HL + 1381 OL

Biology at LC 2012 - 22740 HL + 7796 OL

Sunny!!

spurious wrote: »

Yes, theoretically, but very few people do it, so you would be limiting yourself to a small number of schools in the first place.

Physics at LC 2012 - 4753 HL + 1620 OL

Chemistry at LC 2012 - 6705 HL + 1381 OL

Biology at LC 2012 - 22740 HL + 7796 OL

yes i get you there could be 4 biology classes in a school and barely one physics class. I think ag science is around the 5000 mark only but the biology make up for it i suppose:)

spurious

Sunny!! wrote: »

yes i get you there could be 4 biology classes in a school and barely one physics class. I think ag science is around the 5000 mark only but the biology make up for it i suppose:)

If you could add on some Maths to fulfil the Teaching Council requirements, a fully recognised Biology (with JC Science too?) and Maths teacher would have a good combination, but it would require extra study during your first few years after college, or a second degree.

Sunny!!

spurious wrote: »

If you could add on some Maths to fulfil the Teaching Council requirements, a fully recognised Biology (with JC Science too?) and Maths teacher would have a good combination, but it would require extra study during your first few years after college, or a second degree.

I didn't do Hl maths for the lc so I don't think I'd be able to teach maths. I've another question I noticed in my school teach biology chemistry and physics but on the teachers council no course qualifies you to teach those 3. It would be a perfect combination for me. I'm just wondering how is this possible?

spurious

Sunny!! wrote: »

I didn't do Hl maths for the lc so I don't think I'd be able to teach maths. I've another question I noticed in my school teach biology chemistry and physics but on the teachers council no course qualifies you to teach those 3. It would be a perfect combination for me. I'm just wondering how is this possible?

Two different degrees probably, to teach all three.

Sunny!!

spurious wrote: »

Two different degrees probably, to teach all three.

ah i know what you mean now was a bit puzzled pity thats not an option for me:( could there still be a chance of a school asking me to teach a subject if im not qualified at it? ive seen it in my previous school

spurious

Sunny!! wrote: »

ah i know what you mean now was a bit puzzled pity thats not an option for me:( could there still be a chance of a school asking me to teach a subject if im not qualified at it? ive seen it in my previous school

Once you're employed, yes, but you could not go for a job that was advertised as, say, Biology and Physics, if your qualification was Biology and Chemistry.
Once in the door though, you could be teaching anything.

Sunny!!

spurious wrote: »

Once you're employed, yes, but you could not go for a job that was advertised as, say, Biology and Physics, if your qualification was Biology and Chemistry.
Once in the door though, you could be teaching anything.

oh thats good news (even though if its a flaw in the system) the way the education system is at the moment this is happening more and more i presume.

spurious

What's happening mostly is 'real' jobs are being split and people are getting small amounts of hours, ending up on about 13k annually for a number of years.

I can't see that changing for a long time as it creates a school full of younger teachers desperate for extra hours and trying hard to do extra things for free, just to avoid being the one that is dropped over the summer.

Meanwhile older established teachers retire and are not being replaced, while admin work is done for free by people wanting to keep their job. It's a dream situation for the bosses.

Sunny!!

spurious wrote: »

What's happening mostly is 'real' jobs are being split and people are getting small amounts of hours, ending up on about 13k annually for a number of years.

I can't see that changing for a long time as it creates a school full of younger teachers desperate for extra hours and trying hard to do extra things for free, just to avoid being the one that is dropped over the summer.

Meanwhile older established teachers retire and are not being replaced, while admin work is done for free by people wanting to keep their job. It's a dream situation for the bosses.

the prospects arent good i might do a science degree so ill have experience in labs etc and then do a hdip i think