900 grams of protein in one meal...

UCD dude

Despite the title, this is actually a serious thread.

Up until now, I'd always believed in the whole ''6 meals a day, between 20-30g of protein in each'' approach to nutrition. Recently however, I'v been reading articles by nutrition gurus Lyle McDonald, Alan Aragon and Martin Berkhan and they have really opened my eyes.

They all seem to agree that, aesthetically speaking, all that matters is total protein intake and total calorie intake. It doesn't matter how you get the protein/caloric requirement into your body. The results will be the same. So, in my case, I'm trying to lose fat while retaining as much muscle as possible.
According to the articles these guys write, I should be eating around 1.5g of protein per 1lb of bodyweight. I weigh 185lbs.

This means I need 277 grams of protein per day. I know I'm reaching a caloric deficit because all I eat apart from meat/fish/ protein shakes these days is fruit and veg and some fish oil.

So, back to the thread title. This weekend I hit the gym on Friday for a heavy weights session. Then, I headed off on a little holiday until returning home this afternoon. I ate feck all protein on while away. Just beer, vodka and bread. Can I ''catch up'' on my lack of protein intake by simply drinking 30 protein shakes in a row now? After all, according to these articles my body will digest this protein just fine.

http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/is-there-a-limit-to-how-much-protein-the-body-can-use-in-a-single-meal/

http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html
(Look at myth no.5 in particular)

So. I'm still up at 2am despite being horrendously tired. Everything I'v been led to believe about nutrition has just been ridicules by these articles. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, as this board is generally un-biased and of varied opinion. To me, the prospect of eating only 3 meals or so per day, with a boatload of protein in each is extremely appealing. 6 meals a day can be so difficult to balance around work, study, social life etc.and I generally just feel constantly hungry while doing it. Please give some opinions on the articles I linked. No mockery please.

Mellor

UCD dude wrote: »

Can I ''catch up'' on my lack of protein intake by simply drinking 30 protein shakes in a row now? After all, according to these articles my body will digest this protein just fine.

No you can't. Reason one being, you physically won't be able.
Reason 2, you'll won't be in calorie deficit on that much, so its a waste of time.
Just go back to a good diet, and forget about time lost.


The articles are fine, there isn't anything paticularly surprizing there. Many people with any sort of common sense or understanding wouldn't of believed the 6 meals/3 meals or 30g protein thing anyway. They make little sense. Similar with you body going into starvation mode if you sleep in, I doubt it.

That said, just because 3/6 meals is the same in genreal. It may not be the same for you. Do what ever you find most comfortable. Personally, I prefer 6 meals (well 3 meals, 3 snacks) as I when on deficit I get hungry when bored. 1pm is a long way to 8 or 9pm when I have dinner.

Blatter

I think the whole 6 meals a day thing should only apply to people that find it difficult to put on weight. Unless you're comfortable with a 6 meal a day plan. I know I'm not, when I allow myself have more than 3-4 meals a day I lose track, and end up eating maybe 8-9 times. I prefer to keep it simple, 3 meals a day, no snacks, no bullsh*t. Keeps me on track a whole lot better. That's just me though.

With regards the protein thing, Mellor is right with regards to his first point, it's physically impossible to eat 900g of protein in one day, and if you could manage, it would probably do untold damage to your kidneys.

On your second point Mellor, I think the OP was saying that he had ate so little over the weekend, some bread and mainly alcohol (vodka), that he was well below his target deficit over the weekend and could afford to eat extra for a day after the weekend and still be at an overall deficit. In which case, I think it would be a good idea to eat extra protein for a couple of days to make up for the lack of it over the weekend.

UCD dude

Cheers for the replies guys. From now on, I am switching to 3-4 meals a day with a lot more protein in each than I'm used to. Also, as for the 900 grams thing in one meal thing. Do those hot dog eating champions not come somewhere close to that? Haven't heard of anyone dying from too many calories at once but I could be wrong.

Blatter

UCD dude wrote: »

Cheers for the replies guys. From now on, I am switching to 3-4 meals a day with a lot more protein in each than I'm used to. Also, as for the 900 grams thing in one meal thing. Do those hot dog eating champions not come somewhere close to that? Haven't heard of anyone dying from too many calories at once but I could be wrong.

Those hot dog eating guys train for that sort of thing through fasting and stretching their stomach with water, milk and protein supplements.

They do eat incredible amounts though. The current hot dog eating champion once ate 2000g of steak in 8 minutes. That's around 600g of protein which is absurd for eight minutes.

Mellor

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

On your second point Mellor, I think the OP was saying that he had ate so little over the weekend, some bread and mainly alcohol (vodka), that he was well below his target deficit over the weekend and could afford to eat extra for a day after the weekend and still be at an overall deficit. In which case, I think it would be a good idea to eat extra protein for a couple of days to make up for the lack of it over the weekend.

I know what he said, vodka normall means a sugary mixer, he also said beer.
So he was probably pretty close to maintenance.

UCD dude wrote: »

Do those hot dog eating champions not come somewhere close to that? Haven't heard of anyone dying from too many calories at once but I could be wrong.

They could, I said you couldn't.

UCD dude

I'm pretty sure if you challenged me to I could down 30 protein shakes right now. Anyway, on a related topic. Is a night out on the beer, followed by a chipper, once or twice a week irrelavent as long as I'm still in a caloric deficit and meeting my protein requirements? I'm talking just in terms or appearance/ fat loss here. Seems too good to be true! I have no problem not eating junk, it's missing out on nights out with friends that really presents problems for me.
As for the post night out chipper. If I run a big caloric deficit throughout the day, then just drink vodka with coke zero throughout the night. I could probably get away with it couldn't I? I find if I don't eat a big meal after a night out I wake up with a terrible hangover. Then a bottle of Lucozade in the morning is also essential. I always thought these two things were ruining my fat loss but after tonight I'm of the opinion that once you don't consume too many calories then it's ok. Am I right? This is monumental for me.

Blatter

Mellor wrote: »

I know what he said, vodka normall means a sugary mixer, he also said beer.
So he was probably pretty close to maintenance.

They could, I said you couldn't.

Well if when I'm on a deficit and go drinking I drink some beer but mainly vodka with diet mixers. So if it was me, then I would be way below my maintenance levels . Only the OP can tell us if he was below his maintenance levels or not.

UCD dude

I'm 5'10. 83kgs. Only time I had my BF measured was with one of those electric things that you hold. It gave me 15%, which I would have guessed I am. I do heavy compound workouts 3x a week and play sports aswell so I assume my maintenance levels are above ordinary. Which means I should be able to go out, drink and eat junk, come home and have 10 protein shakes and still get jacked and tanned?

Blatter

UCD dude wrote: »

I'm pretty sure if you challenged me to I could down 30 protein shakes right now. Anyway, on a related topic. Is a night out on the beer, followed by a chipper, once or twice a week irrelavent as long as I'm still in a caloric deficit and meeting my protein requirements? I'm talking just in terms or appearance/ fat loss here. Seems too good to be true! I have no problem not eating junk, it's missing out on nights out with friends that really presents problems for me.
As for the post night out chipper. If I run a big caloric deficit throughout the day, then just drink vodka with coke zero throughout the night. I could probably get away with it couldn't I? I find if I don't eat a big meal after a night out I wake up with a terrible hangover. Then a bottle of Lucozade in the morning is also essential. I always thought these two things were ruining my fat loss but after tonight I'm of the opinion that once you don't consume too many calories then it's ok. Am I right? This is monumental for me.

Yeah you'll be fine as long as you have an overall deficit and get enough protein. Have a read of this. I think you'll find it interesting.

He basically some junk like a half pint of Ben and Jerrys and other stuff but kept his counted all his calories, made sure he had a deficit and adequate protein. He got great results as you will be able to see from his pics. It's important to eat 75-80% healthy for top class results though.

Mellor

UCD dude wrote: »

I'm pretty sure if you challenged me to I could down 30 protein shakes right now.

In that case, I challenge you.

Just think about it, a smallish ish shake might be 300ml, 30 would be 9 litres, I doubt you make it halfway

UCD dude

That looks like an excellent read and seems to confirm everything I'v been pondering about. I noticed he said one shouldn't have a deficit of more than 500 cals, as this is where muscle could be lost. Currently, I don't really know how much of a deficit I'm running. I do know that I'm losing weight and that I'm actually getting slightly stronger in the gym. My waist has also shrunk. Is it safe to assume I'm losing fat, not muscle?

UCD dude

Mellor wrote: »

In that case, I challenge you.

Just think about it, a smallish ish shake might be 300ml, 30 would be 9 litres, I doubt you make it halfway

I'm still feeling a bit hungover from the weekend and fairly sure I would puke if I tried now. But there will come a day when this will happen.

Blatter

UCD dude wrote: »

That looks like an excellent read and seems to confirm everything I'v been pondering about. I noticed he said one shouldn't have a deficit of more than 500 cals, as this is where muscle could be lost. Currently, I don't really know how much of a deficit I'm running. I do know that I'm losing weight and that I'm actually getting slightly stronger in the gym. My waist has also shrunk. Is it safe to assume I'm losing fat, not muscle?

That 500Kcal deficit is a daily average. You could eat to maintenance one day and hit a 1000Kcal deficit the next, as long as it's not more than 3500Kcal a week, you will lose only fat, especially seeing as your doing weights. Try to look at things on a weekly basis as it dosen't suit you to concentrate on how you do things daily due to nights out.

Mellor

I try to hit more than 500 a day too, as I know that fri-sunday often goes out the window

Blatter

Mellor wrote: »

I try to hit more than 500 a day too, as I know that fri-sunday often goes out the window

It stops the body getting into a routine and keeps it guessing. It also allows for blow outs at weekends or family dues etc. All in all its actually hugely beneficial. Should be recommended more often really.

UCD dude

My life has just become soo much less stressful with all this good news. I thought getting to a lowish level of BF required becoming a social recluse and that if you missed a meal everything was fecked.

Mellor

UCD Dude, I think you are reada bit much into it tbh.
Not drinking, not binging, avoiding all junk will make it easier.
Those articles aren't saying its the same no matter what you eat, they are saying its possible. To get to the top level, ie like the guys in the pics, you'll need to be eating near perfectly.

The Guvnor

UCD dude wrote: »

Can I ''catch up'' on my lack of protein intake by simply drinking 30 protein shakes in a row now? After all, according to these articles my body will digest this protein just fine.

900grams via shakes so roughly 1200g of powder. Assume you do them thick 100g to 500ml water - that is six litres.

I am sure you can drink it but you will not enjoy it after about 2 mouthfuls and when it all leaves your system you will definitely regret it!

Personally the issue here really is the amount of liquid - you can make the shakes thick but afterwards you will need a lot of water, how bloated are you going to be with a minimum of 6 litres of heavy protein shakes inside of you plus afterwards to cope with the sweats you will get another few litres of water. At a guess you will be windy!

All those eating challenges look great but do we ever see the pain afterwards?

I would not do it but feel free to give it ago.

Will Heffernan

This is what often happens here. People read articles...the reading part isn't really the important part though...it's the understanding part that I wish people would focus on more.

UCD dude wrote: »

Despite the title, this is actually a serious thread.

Are you sure? I've a feeling you must have still been drunk when you wrote this.

Up until now, I'd always believed in the whole ''6 meals a day, between 20-30g of protein in each'' approach to nutrition.

1. It isn't a fairy tale...it isn't a matter of 'believing' or 'not believing'...just look at the evidence....by the way...another side note...articles are not evidence...they're opinion pieces.
2. 6 meals and 20-30g of protein a sitting sounds pretty good to me.

Recently however, I'v been reading articles by nutrition gurus Lyle McDonald, Alan Aragon and Martin Berkhan and they have really opened my eyes.

The lads will be happy about that.

They all seem to agree that, aesthetically speaking, all that matters is total protein intake and total calorie intake. It doesn't matter how you get the protein/caloric requirement into your body. The results will be the same. So, in my case, I'm trying to lose fat while retaining as much muscle as possible.

Is that what they say or what you think they are saying?

According to the articles these guys write, I should be eating around 1.5g of protein per 1lb of bodyweight. I weigh 185lbs.

Sounds about write...probably more than you need actually....but better to be safe than sorry.

This means I need 277 grams of protein per day. I know I'm reaching a caloric deficit because all I eat apart from meat/fish/ protein shakes these days is fruit and veg and some fish oil.

I know a lot of fat people that same the same thing...I'll believe you though.

So, back to the thread title. This weekend I hit the gym on Friday for a heavy weights session. Then, I headed off on a little holiday until returning home this afternoon. I ate feck all protein on while away. Just beer, vodka and bread.

So all you eat is meat/fish/ protein shakes these days is fruit and veg and some fish oil...except when you are drinking beer, vodka and bread?

Can I ''catch up'' on my lack of protein intake by simply drinking 30 protein shakes in a row now? After all, according to these articles my body will digest this protein just fine.

No...but that's not what any of these articles have said at all.

http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/is-there-a-limit-to-how-much-protein-the-body-can-use-in-a-single-meal/

http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html
(Look at myth no.5 in particular)

So. I'm still up at 2am despite being horrendously tired. Everything I'v been led to believe about nutrition has just been ridicules by these articles.

No it hasn't...everything you've been led to believe is based on exactly the same understanding of nutrition as the lads have presented in their articles.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, as this board is generally un-biased and of varied opinion.

I don't think you can possibly appreciate how hard that made me laugh

To me, the prospect of eating only 3 meals or so per day, with a boatload of protein in each is extremely appealing.

So do that...it's a fine strategy.

6 meals a day can be so difficult to balance around work, study, social life etc.and I generally just feel constantly hungry while doing it. Please give some opinions on the articles I linked. No mockery please.

So don't use this strategy.

The thing is...either strategy is fine. Seems to be a lot like yourself who can see all the pieces of the jig saw puzzle...that just can't put it together.

dartstothesea

Wow, that's planning a lot of dietary bending over backwards just to be able to still go out and drink whatever spirits with a diet soft drink and get garbage from the chipper.
If you're out late at night and lose out on sleep though, what if your body won't metabolize everything properly?! What if you can't catch up on those lost Z's in one 900-hour snorefest?!

cmyk

UCD dude wrote: »

Can I ''catch up'' on my lack of protein intake by simply drinking 30 protein shakes in a row now? After all, according to these articles my body will digest this protein just fine.

Can you please show me where any of those 3 authors actually stated that?

dartstothesea

They said the body will take as much sweet time as it needs to absorb all the protein you eat. I think he also said that only applies up to 29 shakes' worth of protein though.

Hanley

UCD dude wrote: »

They all seem to agree that, aesthetically speaking, all that matters is total protein intake and total calorie intake. It doesn't matter how you get the protein/caloric requirement into your body. The results will be the same.

That’s pretty weird… cos I was reading a Lyle McDonald article the other day where he was talking about the importance of insulin sensitivity and resistance when it came to dieting… and depending on whether or not your were sensitive or resistance you would respond better to a higher carb or higher fat approach when dieting…

Are you just believing the bits you want to believe and ignoring the rest?

john_cappa

The Guvnor wrote: »

900grams via shakes so roughly 1200g of powder. Assume you do them thick 100g to 500ml water - that is six litres.

I am sure you can drink it but you will not enjoy it after about 2 mouthfuls and when it all leaves your system you will definitely regret it!

Personally the issue here really is the amount of liquid - you can make the shakes thick but afterwards you will need a lot of water, how bloated are you going to be with a minimum of 6 litres of heavy protein shakes inside of you plus afterwards to cope with the sweats you will get another few litres of water. At a guess you will be windy!

All those eating challenges look great but do we ever see the pain afterwards?

I would not do it but feel free to give it ago.

I dunno! Have you ever done the 4 litres of milk/coke in one hour challenge?

Projectile vomit city!

Fell free to have a go though.....take pictures and videos!

Hanley

dartstothesea wrote: »

They said the body will take as much sweet time as it needs to absorb all the protein you eat. I think he also said that only applies up to 29 shakes' worth of protein though.

Hmmm so say my body’s gone 48 hours without sufficient amounts of protein, and assuming my total kcals were adequate that it didn’t feel the need to break down lean mass for energy requirements, I haven’t really lost or gained any muscle and I’ve survived the period without protein.

Why would I need to lash 3,600kcals worth of protein into me in one go? What’s my body gonna do with it?

Not asking you specifically, just in general…

dartstothesea

It's not going to send the protein back in time or anything just to make up for the time you went deprived of it...

I dunno, I was just pointing out that one of the lad's articles definitely did look to be saying you could take in ridiculous amounts of protein and your body wouldn't necessarily draw any kind of cut off point at 30g. If not at 30g then why not at 900g?
Again not saying I buy it all necessarily but that's what the article seems to say.

UCD dude

Hanley wrote: »

Hmmm so say my body’s gone 48 hours without sufficient amounts of protein, and assuming my total kcals were adequate that it didn’t feel the need to break down lean mass for energy requirements, I haven’t really lost or gained any muscle and I’ve survived the period without protein.

Are you saying that if the calories you took in during those 48 hours were close enough to maintenance, that you won't lose muscle, regardless of the lack of protein? That's excellent news if true and would mean there'd be no need to consume the 30 protein shakes at all.

Kev M

UCD dude wrote: »

Are you saying that if the calories you took in during those 48 hours were close enough to maintenance, that you won't lose muscle, regardless of the lack of protein? That's excellent news if true and would mean there'd be no need to consume the 30 protein shakes at all.

Depends on a number of factors, primarily the activities undertaken in that 48 hour period. It's not rocket science here...

UCD dude

Well for me that proteinless 48 hours involved sitting around drinking vodka. certainly no cardio. 2 pizzas and some noodles and crisps. I probably didn't eat too far under/over maintenance. Should I just continue on as if that weekend didn't happen?

Hanley

UCD dude wrote: »

Are you saying that if the calories you took in during those 48 hours were close enough to maintenance, that you won't lose muscle, regardless of the lack of protein? That's excellent news if true and would mean there'd be no need to consume the 30 protein shakes at all.

Did you spend the 48 hours lifting weights and doing intense intervals? If so, you probably need to protein and large quantities of it or you'd have experienced muscle breakdown.

Did you just walk around and do the occasional jog/LIT activity? If yes, it probably doesn't matter that much cos you'd have only been using glycogen for fuel.

UCD dude

Neither, as I said. Although on the Friday I went away, I had just done a full body heavy weights session.

Hanley

UCD dude wrote: »

Neither, as I said. Although on the Friday I went away, I had just done a full body heavy weights session.

You've missed my point.

UCD dude

Still not sure what you're point is. I got in a fair bit of protein on that Friday, before and after the workout. Then, on Saturday and Sunday I did nothing, and consumed barely any protein. My initial quesiton was should I pile in the protein on Monday to make up for it?

BadCharlie

UCD dude wrote: »

Still not sure what you're point is. I got in a fair bit of protein on that Friday, before and after the workout. Then, on Saturday and Sunday I did nothing, and consumed barely any protein. My initial quesiton was should I pile in the protein on Monday to make up for it?

Think his saying nope, just go back to your normal diet. No need to take in loads of protein on the monday.

The Davestator

Op, a shiity weekend of food and drink cannot be undone by eating loads of protein.

Move on with your normal diet and training and plan your cheat days better if possible

Mellor

UCD dude wrote: »

Are you saying that if the calories you took in during those 48 hours were close enough to maintenance, that you won't lose muscle, regardless of the lack of protein? That's excellent news if true and would mean there'd be no need to consume the 30 protein shakes at all.

how much muscle did you think you were going to lose is 48 hours?

UCD dude wrote: »

Well for me that proteinless 48 hours involved sitting around drinking vodka. certainly no cardio. 2 pizzas and some noodles and crisps. I probably didn't eat too far under/over maintenance. Should I just continue on as if that weekend didn't happen?

I doubt you were under tbh
Beer, vodka, bread, pizza, noodles, crisps, hmmmmm weekends

mloc

900g of protein in one sitting is madness.

That's 3600 cals plus whatever else is in the shake. If you were to have all that at once, the vast majority is either going to be stored as fat (like most excess calories are) or simply pissed away.

I really don't know why people keep trying to cheat their bodies and fool themselves. You have a ****ty weekend training/nutrition wise, that's exactly what it is. There is no magic recovery system.

SanoVitae

900 grams of protein in one meal?

Bear in mind that the average weight for a healthy, human kidney is 120-140 gms.

cmyk

mloc wrote: »

900g of protein in one sitting is madness.

Exactly, I saw a poster last week stating how stupid it was for people to quote extreme ends of a spectrum just to make a point...this is just another case of that.

mloc wrote: »

That's 3600 cals plus whatever else is in the shake. If you were to have all that at once, the vast majority is either going to be stored as fat (like most excess calories are) or simply pissed away.

Let's not open that particular can of worms again.