LET'S GROW OUR WAY OUT OF THIS RECESSION!!!!!

GrowersDirect

I work for myself in the Midlands, sourcing fresh Vegetables from local growers & Selling them to local people, what i cant understand is why more farmers don't grow vegetables because we don't have enough to last us throughout the year, i know this because i worked in the market in Smithfeild in Dublin & for example now, we a importing English broccoli, French cauliflower, Spanish tomatoes, onions, cucumber, scallions & lots more food than i care to mention & come February carrots from the middle east?, it might be a bit naive but why don't we grow as much food here as we can, even export it instead of importing it, creating 1000s of jobs, it a simple solution to a big problem i don't know why it hasn't been thought of yet, also apart from all the veg we can grow there is plenty of fruits too, maybe there is something i don't know, but its very frustrating seeing our country suffering the way it is??

hitman79

Sounds like a good idea to me. My family owns 20 acres which is idle and i reckon i will soon be made redundant so its something i might look into

GrowersDirect

hitman79 wrote: »

Sounds like a good idea to me. My family owns 20 acres which is idle and i reckon i will soon be made redundant so its something i might look into

Hi There, if you look at it this way 1 acre = on advarge 12 tons of rooster potato x20 acres = 240 tons, which is 24000 x 10kg Bags of rooster at present Rooster potato sells for 5euro which means you could make 120000 euro, now depending on your costs which im not sure would be im sure you whould earn a living & also employ other people to help you, & remember no vat on food,

hitman79

GrowersDirect wrote: »

Hi There, if you look at it this way 1 acre = on advarge 12 tons of rooster potato x20 acres = 240 tons, which is 24000 x 10kg Bags of rooster at present Rooster potato sells for 5euro which means you could make 120000 euro, now depending on your costs which im not sure would be im sure you whould earn a living & also employ other people to help you, & remember no vat on food,

What sort of money would it cost to grow 20 acres of roosters? Family sold tractor and machinery years ago so would have to buy them too. Didnt realise there was no vat on food. Cheers for the heads up.

ei.sdraob

Ok some maths


90 billion - Current National Debt
+
90 billion - Bank Bailout
+
?? billion - NAMA
+
?? billion - lost opportunity costs due to government ****ing about for 2 years
+
40 billion - debt taken on between now and 2014 assuming the targets are meant (big IF)
+
?? billion - yearly interest payments on all this debt being taken on at large interest
=
**** load of money for which you be exporting spuds until the sun burns out and not pay it back


now on more positive note our exports are strong, thank god
but with all the talk of increasing taxation and no gains in competitiveness
we wont be getting out of this recession with exports alone, especially agricultural exports

GrowersDirect

hitman79 wrote: »

What sort of money would it cost to grow 20 acres of roosters? Family sold tractor and machinery years ago so would have to buy them too. Didnt realise there was no vat on food. Cheers for the heads up.

The best thing you can do without shying away from it because of start up costs is find some that has equipment, maybe a local farmer who is in the same boat, for the 1st year they provide the tractor & other things you need for a share in the profit, I'm not sure how much your potato seed will cost & also you will have to spray it, but you can find out all this through www.teagasc.ie your 1st year start small so you get a feel for it, also keep in mind of all the other Vegetables you can grow, the farmer i get food off grows, rooster, record, golden wonder potato, carrots, parsnips, cabbage, scallions, turnips, broccoli, brussel sprouts, onions, beetroot & lettuce so you have lots of products to choose from, growing & picking during the week & selling to local people, people love fresh food.

GrowersDirect

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Ok some maths


90 billion - Current National Debt
+
90 billion - Bank Bailout
+
?? billion - NAMA
+
?? billion - lost opportunity costs due to government ****ing about for 2 years
+
40 billion - debt taken on between now and 2014 assuming the targets are meant (big IF)
+
?? billion - yearly interest payments on all this debt being taken on at large interest
=
**** load of money for which you be exporting spuds until the sun burns out and not pay it back


now on more positive note our exports are strong, thank god
but with all the talk of increasing taxation and no gains in competitiveness
we wont be getting out of this recession with exports alone, especially agricultural exports

I know were in debt, its not just potatos we can grow but lots of other things too, crossing our fingers & hoping & sticking our heads in the sand, isn't good enough any more, all i know is the more self sufficient we get, the more jobs we will create & the better the country will be for all of us, you've to keep positive & just because were in a hole now doesn't mean we have to stay there till someone else pulls us out !!!!

ei.sdraob

GrowersDirect wrote: »

I know were in debt, its not just potatos we can grow but lots of other things too, crossing our fingers & hoping & sticking our heads in the sand, isn't good enough any more, all i know is the more self sufficient we get, the more jobs we will create & the better the country will be for all of us, you've to keep positive & just because were in a hole now doesn't mean we have to stay there till someone else pulls us out !!!!

Supply and demand my friend

dumping a lot of (perishable) food on markets will lower prices, the EU market is over-saturated with food, hell they are paying farmers to not to grow things

so that leaves developing countries but that means {much longer supply lines, dealing with all sorts of trade barriers etc} oh and being able to grow food with less costs than competitors good luck there with our high fuel rates and beuracracy when it comes to any business, especially farming

maybe if we can somehow tap into the growing Chinese and Indian markets and somehow manage to deliver them fresh quality food cheaply, somehow...


anyway why do you keep saying "our"?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

dan_d

Why do we have to sell it abroad?

Why can't we sell a proportion of it locally here...cheaper than the imported food coz it hasn't travelled miles....driving costs down....which is what we're all about these days.

Stop raining on parades, people, and back up ideas. I'm living in the market garden centre of this country (north Dublin). Veg is sold on the side of the roads and in the back gardens. Don't spend a penny in Tescos etc, get the stuff for a good price and really fresh. Having travelled extensively...we have some of the best quality food in the world in this country. We should use what we have. Out here we get potates, parsnips, spring onions, leeks (loads of em!), cabbages, lettuces, broccoli, carrots, spinach (yuck!), baby potatoes, celery, onions, tomatoes, eggs (local chickens:D)....the list is long.All grown in the field next door to be exported to Egypt...or wherever. What's the point in that???

Normally I'm in agreement with you, ei. sdraob:D, but not on this one!!

GrowersDirect

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Supply and demand my friend

dumping a lot of (perishable) food on markets will lower prices, the EU market is over-saturated with food, hell they are paying farmers to not to grow things

so that leaves developing countries but that means {much longer supply lines, dealing with all sorts of trade barriers etc} oh and being able to grow food with less costs than competitors good luck there with our high fuel rates and beuracracy when it comes to any business, especially farming

maybe if we can somehow tap into the growing Chinese and Indian markets and somehow manage to deliver them fresh quality food cheaply, somehow...


anyway why do you keep saying "our"?

You havent got a clue what your talking about, i work in this trade, i buy from local farmers & sell on to local people at a better price than the BIG multi national supermarkets, i pay my tax & prsi, health insureance & keep a van on the road, i save people on avarge 70% compared to the big boys & the food is as fresh as can be, not sitting on shelves for days before you buy it, I pick & pack to order, you probably work in an office & are good at one thing, its people like you who really piss me off

GrowersDirect

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I don't know about the 1930s this is 2010, lots of thing have changed since then, i couldn't drive a car when i was 10, but i can now

GrowersDirect

dan_d wrote: »

Why do we have to sell it abroad?

Why can't we sell a proportion of it locally here...cheaper than the imported food coz it hasn't travelled miles....driving costs down....which is what we're all about these days.

Stop raining on parades, people, and back up ideas. I'm living in the market garden centre of this country (north Dublin). Veg is sold on the side of the roads and in the back gardens. Don't spend a penny in Tescos etc, get the stuff for a good price and really fresh. Having travelled extensively...we have some of the best quality food in the world in this country. We should use what we have. Out here we get potates, parsnips, spring onions, leeks (loads of em!), cabbages, lettuces, broccoli, carrots, spinach (yuck!), baby potatoes, celery, onions, tomatoes, eggs (local chickens:D)....the list is long.All grown in the field next door to be exported to Egypt...or wherever. What's the point in that???

Normally I'm in agreement with you, ei. sdraob:D, but not on this one!!

I totaly agree wit you Dan, Local food for local people.

ei.sdraob

dan_d wrote: »

Normally I'm in agreement with you, ei. sdraob:D, but not on this one!!

the OP suggested that "we can grow our way" out of this mess, we cant the debt hole is too deep, as i pointed out exports will be only one variable in the end solution to this mess.

As for substituting food, we are part of the EU we cant just ban imports or provide unfair advantage to local producers, if they want to compete they will have to do that on an even playing field, and some (to their credit) do that very well. The alternative is turning inward and dropping from EU, as @df pointed out that was tried before in this country...

GrowersDirect wrote: »

You havent got a clue what your talking about, i work in this trade, i buy from local farmers & sell on to local people at a better price than the BIG multi national supermarkets, i pay my tax & prsi, health insureance & keep a van on the road, i save people on avarge 70% compared to the big boys & the food is as fresh as can be, not sitting on shelves for days before you buy it, I pick & pack to order, you probably work in an office & are good at one thing, its people like you who really piss me off

I am not sure why you are attacking me I pointed out that no we can not "grow" our way out of this mess, the numbers are simply too large.
And if it makes you feel any better i run a business and employ people too, as well as having to pay all sorts of taxes like yourself, but unlike yourself i have to compete with companies from all around the world to make a profit and not be protected by EU who is providing large subsidies to our farmers and preventing farmers in other countries from competing with our lot.

Exports will be aspect of Ireland's recovery but not the sole saviour, not running up so much debt in the first place would be a good place to start addressing our issues.

ei.sdraob

GrowersDirect wrote: »

I totaly agree wit you Dan, Local food for local people.

Selling stuff made locally to each other doesnt make us all richer.
we tried that with houses look where that ended up...

Exports on the other hand do,

if farmers come together into co-ops/companies and somehow manage to get into Asian markets and deliver fresh/cheap/quality food, you will make alot of $€¥ and increase the wealth back home, wealth that can be taxed to pay for this mess.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

GrowersDirect

I don't make a profit, i earn enough to pay my way in life, that's what has us in this mess, PROFITEERING, i understand people want to grow there company's, look at this for an example, in Holland a 6kg box of loose tomatoes will cost an imported 2 euro, by the time they get to Dublin there 6 euro, by the time the reach a whole seller there 9 euro & by the time you by them there 2.80 per kilo that's 16.80 euro for a box to tomatoes??? how is that fare?

ei.sdraob

GrowersDirect wrote: »

I don't make a profit, i earn enough to pay my way in life, that's what has us in this mess, PROFITEERING, i understand people want to grow there company's, look at this for an example, in Holland a 6kg box of loose tomatoes will cost an imported 2 euro, by the time they get to Dublin there 6 euro, by the time the reach a whole seller there 9 euro & by the time you by them there 2.80 per kilo that's 16.80 euro for a box to tomatoes??? how is that fare?

Can I point you to your opening post and your thread title says "grow our way out of this recession"

without profit there is nothing to tax in order to repay the debt we clocked up.

Unless you envisage an island where we are all herded into collectives to work like happy proles for the good of motherland on a 5year plan cycle, where has that been tried before...

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

GrowersDirect

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Selling stuff made locally to each other doesnt make us all richer.
we tried that with houses look where that ended up...

What has houses to do with it, my father in laws house cost him 2000 euro in 1970s, he earned 100 per week working for bordnamona, that's 200 times what he earned a week, people who sold houses a few years back on average 200000 euro for a house, the average weekly pay maybe 500 if you had a good job that's, 400 times what you earned a week, people who sold houses riped people off, a place to live is not a thing to make huge profits off, we knew this one time & thank god we are starting to know it again

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

GrowersDirect

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Stop concentrating on the past & look to the future, I'm on about selling locally grown food to local people, noting more, noting less. Its the simplest thing in the world.

ei.sdraob

Ok @GrowersDirect


wealth comes from selling stuff/services that other party/ies need
you with me?

selling potatoes/massages/houses to each other within the economy only pushes money around (not necessarily a bad thing as long as its not overdone as happened here with houses) the problem with Ireland is that money is LEAVING the country and going to people who loaned us money, the more money leaves the less there is for us left to sell potatoes to each other
you with me still?

selling butter (kerrygold) /microchips (intel) /advertising (google) to entities OUTSIDE our little island economy is a VERY GOOD THING since it brings in money from other economies


Ireland actually still exports alot of stuff, but growing exports will only be one part of the solution
pouring water into a pot with larger holes at bottom doesn't work if you wish to boil potatoes in this pot

domrush

But if we grew all our own food wouldn't that drive imports down? If our imports are less aren't we saving money?

ei.sdraob

domrush wrote: »

But if we grew all our own food wouldn't that drive imports down? If our imports are less aren't we saving money?

Yes if the locally produces food is cheaper/better than imported food(and a lot of it is for most part and hence people buy it).

We are part of an economic union and free trade area potatoes from Ireland compete on the same level playing field as potatoes from Netherlands or Romania.
So unless your potatoes are better and cheaper than the competition then you loose. Placing artificial barriers only ensures everyone looses in the longterm.

Today is economics 101 day :P

GrowersDirect

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Ok @GrowersDirect


wealth comes from selling stuff/services that other party/ies need
you with me?

selling potatoes/massages/houses to each other within the economy only pushes money around (not necessarily a bad thing as long as its not overdone as happened here with houses) the problem with Ireland is that money is LEAVING the country and going to people who loaned us money, the more money leaves the less there is for us left to sell potatoes to each other
you with me still?

selling butter (kerrygold) /microchips (intel) /advertising (google) to entities OUTSIDE our little island economy is a VERY GOOD THING since it brings in money from other economies


Ireland actually still exports alot of stuff, but growing exports will only be one part of the solution
pouring water into a pot with larger holes at bottom doesn't work if you wish to boil potatoes in this pot

Im just talking about Food, lets grow more, create more jobs in doing so, import less of the food we can grow here, it takes 100 people to keep me in a job every week, noting to to with exporting, i work within a 15mile radious of were i live & theres 1000s. For example in westmeath theres 80000 people, thats 8000 jobs for people who want to deliver to them, plus probably 2000 jobe for growers, now how may people work in supermarkets in westmeath? i dont know but supermarkets are all about big profit, even growers selling to big chains have to bend to their rules or they simply wont buy, a local farmer i know couldnt sell any of his produce because local supermarkets had contracts with spain, holland & other contries, hows that good

ei.sdraob

GrowersDirect wrote: »

Im just talking about Food, lets grow more, create more jobs in doing so, import less of the food we can grow here, it takes 100 people to keep me in a job every week, noting to to with exporting, i work within a 15mile radious of were i live & theres 1000s. For example in westmeath theres 80000 people, thats 8000 jobs for people who want to deliver to them, plus probably 2000 jobe for growers, now how may people work in supermarkets in westmeath? i dont know but supermarkets are all about big profit, even growers selling to big chains have to bend to their rules or they simply wont buy, a local farmer i know couldnt sell any of his produce because local supermarkets had contracts with spain, holland & other contries, hows that good

So the local farmer could not compete with other farmers in EU?

So we need to subsidise him indirectly and place a trade barrier so he is better off while everyone else including the consumers are worse off

anyone who refuses to buy locally and goes north will be stopped by a wall

yeh that'll work ...

Corsendonk

Interesting thread, I agree with the last thread about growing product to export to bring currency into the economy. Considering the OP confessed that he worked in Corporation market the place that has done its best to import product for years to deflate the Irish market prices it was a bit rich to preach what we should be doing.

From his extensive knowledge of the market garden industry in Ireland he will know the majority of growers are based in Cork, Wexford and North Dublin mainly due to the fact that they have decent land for large scale production of vegetable crops plus the expertise. Soil in Ireland is poor in comparsion to areas like Lincolnshire in the UK.

Potatoes can be grow in poorer soils but the costs of production arn't cheap if you wish to grow a product acceptable to the multiples or export market. New potato harvester is around 250k region. Then he have to buy or contract fertiliser, rotivating, planting, spraying. If you look at the figures, there are less potatoes, less land under production but higher yields so your entrying into a competitive and expert market. I have seen what some of the regional potato growers sell and some of it is no better than cattle feed to be honest. Gone are the days were you over winter potatoes in the ground, your expected to lift and store in fridges yourself to maintain quality.

Lastly the Irish climate prevents a wide range of crops to be grown year round so we need imports at the start and end of seasons when local supply can't meet 100% of demand. Also cheap lines such as cherry tomatoes are imported because the Irish scale model can not compete with the low value high volume lines due to energy and labour costs here.

Corsendonk

GrowersDirect wrote: »

i dont know but supermarkets are all about big profit, even growers selling to big chains have to bend to their rules or they simply wont buy, a local farmer i know couldnt sell any of his produce because local supermarkets had contracts with spain, holland & other contries, hows that good

Are you sure you worked in the market? Considering the two big boys there are major suppliers to the multiples, and yes they do import produce from there subsiders abroad, I might add that both are Irish owned companies. I am shocked by your naviety in the local farmer statement, as your knowledge from the market should have led you to take the farmers statement with a pince of salt.

ei.sdraob

Oh and if the locals dont want to get their hands dirty for a min wage pay which is not too far from what you get on dole by doing nothing.

sure we can import Brazilian workers then :P to do the work

... anyways i am off to dig some muck and plant few fruit trees on my land , maybe in a few years i should lobby to prevent those evil UK growers from importing apples that are are superior to ei.sdraob's batch

tenchi-fan

We need to get to the stage where people's efforts are rewarded.

Everyone eats food. Why are potatoes being imported while our farmers are told not to grow them! Paying farmers not to grow food is absolutely crazy.

gbee

GrowersDirect wrote: »

i don't know why it hasn't been thought of yet, also apart from all the veg we can grow there is plenty of fruits too, maybe there is something i don't know, but its very frustrating seeing our country suffering the way it is??

Oh but it was, amongst others the Carlow and Mallow beat and vegetable plants offered massive employment.

it's another in the long, long, long line of Government scandals, not unlike Irish Steel having been sold off for a £1 whilst we are still left with the fallout and ongoing costs.

The thing is, there is a market for Fertilizer [sold], Steel [sold], Ship Building [sold], Sugar [sold], Market Gardening [legislated out of business] and petroleum [they wanted to sell that too, we are paying and additional 5P or whatever a gallon more to keep it open].

But the problem is twofold, our government's arse-licking to the EU and the lack of brown envelopes from the small trader [no corruption opportunities].

We certainly could do a lot more and it is a feasible initiative ~ but we need to back off most of the legislation put in place since the start of our EU.

Corsendonk

tenchi-fan wrote: »

We need to get to the stage where people's efforts are rewarded.

Everyone eats food. Why are potatoes being imported while our farmers are told not to grow them! Paying farmers not to grow food is absolutely crazy.

Who tells them not to grow them?

The majority of potatoes we import are the waxy baby varieties like Nicola or charlotte or organics that isn't financially viable to grow here because of the low yield but grown on large scale in Israel, Cyprus you can pull in three harvests a year with there climate. So its market factors like any other industry that dictate not the EU. Its amazing how many people use the EU as the excuse for everything, easy option everytime.

Corsendonk

gbee wrote: »

The thing is, there is a market for Fertilizer [sold], Steel [sold], Ship Building [sold], Sugar [sold], Market Gardening [legislated out of business] and petroleum [they wanted to sell that too, we are paying and additional 5P or whatever a gallon more to keep it open].

.

What legislation would that be concerning market gardening?

changes

Fair play to you OP for suggesting some ideas, its a breath of fresh air compared to the usual "have the public sector shared the pain" type threads.

If more people were trying that and maybe were creating 5 jobs here and 10 jobs there we would be on the right track. We could lower our social welfare bill, increase tax intake etc.

gbee

Corsendonk wrote: »

What legislation would that be concerning market gardening?

Ask one of those farmer market stalls and you'll get all the legislation facts thrown at you in short order.

Corsendonk

gbee wrote: »

Ask one of those farmer market stalls and you'll get all the legislation facts thrown at you in short order.

You haven't a clue then.

thebman

I think its an interesting idea and a good one.

We don't have to be cheaper than imports if they are of higher quality (fresher).

Yes selling to ourselves won't improve exports but it will reduce imports which is also good. We shouldn't really be importing things we don't need or can do for ourselves other than to satisfy the lower end of the market we can't produce for ourselves as our costs are too high.

I'd rather buy fresh Irish veg than veg that has been half way around the world and almost gone off by the time it hits our shelves.

The only problem is getting into the super markets. The problem is the farmer markets are too out of the way with not enough promotion to get people to go to them.

The_Honeybadger

GrowersDirect wrote: »

I work for myself in the Midlands, sourcing fresh Vegetables from local growers & Selling them to local people, what i cant understand is why more farmers don't grow vegetables because we don't have enough to last us throughout the year, i know this because i worked in the market in Smithfeild in Dublin & for example now, we a importing English broccoli, French cauliflower, Spanish tomatoes, onions, cucumber, scallions & lots more food than i care to mention & come February carrots from the middle east?, it might be a bit naive but why don't we grow as much food here as we can, even export it instead of importing it, creating 1000s of jobs, it a simple solution to a big problem i don't know why it hasn't been thought of yet, also apart from all the veg we can grow there is plenty of fruits too, maybe there is something i don't know, but its very frustrating seeing our country suffering the way it is??

OP I don't think you deserved the negativity that followed this post, there is certainly an opportunity for small landowners to use their land to grow crops and make a small profit, I would pay a little extra for something I know was grown locally, and I know others who would too. Certainly something worth developing. As for growing our way out of the crisis, other posters have correctly told you an idea like this on its own wouldn't make any difference to our problems, the numbers at play in our crisis are simply mind boggling. However I don't think that means we should all give up and not try to help ourselves, fair play to you for trying something different, I hope it works out for you, maybe this might be of interest, might be useful for contacts or something, I know a few people who are involved and would be of the same mindset as yourself

Corsendonk

thebman wrote: »

I think its an interesting idea and a good one.

We don't have to be cheaper than imports if they are of higher quality (fresher).

Yes selling to ourselves won't improve exports but it will reduce imports which is also good. We shouldn't really be importing things we don't need or can do for ourselves other than to satisfy the lower end of the market we can't produce for ourselves as our costs are too high.

I'd rather buy fresh Irish veg than veg that has been half way around the world and almost gone off by the time it hits our shelves.

The only problem is getting into the super markets. The problem is the farmer markets are too out of the way with not enough promotion to get people to go to them.

Irish climate and are lack of sunshine unfortunately impacts on quality of certain of the more weather sensitive lines.

You have to accept do that the quality of certain imports(apples) is far superior than anything produced in the Irish climate. The had the same problem in the UK were the had to have a really wide specification for english fruit supplied into supermarkets, but there is a fine line between supporting local and stocking poor quality on the shelf. Also no one in there right mind exports less than very good quality product around the world. Remember it gets a quality inspection by the importer so if it doesnt meet spec the exporter doesnt get paid and has a very hefty freight bill too. Then most of the retailers with Central Warehouses Inspect the product again.

Most of the growers dont deal directly with Supermarkets due to standards in part but also simple accountancy issues and service levels. The customer expects say cabbage 365 days a year, so you as the grower if you deal direct with the supermarket can't suddenly turn around and say you dont have cabbage next week due to exceeded sales. The farmer then either has to sub contract from another grower and do the necessary paper trail(Pesticide testing, harvest interval records) or import from abroad with the same paper trail procedure if they arnt an already approved supplier. And most farmers are unprepared to do that so they supply through a middle man who will do that. And the middle man will only want to use farmers with large volumes of particular lines, or guys they can depend on to supply them with some volume at least when crops are tight. I know several market gardeners/farmers that guys wont touch because there unrealiable to supply them.

Its a business like any other but because people can grow some vegetables and fruit in there back garden they think its alot simpler than other business areas.

maninasia

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Selling stuff made locally to each other doesnt make us all richer.
we tried that with houses look where that ended up...

Exports on the other hand do,

if farmers come together into co-ops/companies and somehow manag
e to get into Asian markets and deliver fresh/cheap/quality food, you will make alot of $€¥ and increase the wealth back home, wealth that can be taxed to pay for this mess.

The OPs idea is broadly a good one and spot on. There is loads of underutilised land in Ireland, there's a market for fresh produce it just takes a bit of effort! Healthier, fresher, more organic the better. It's a growth industry too. Supermarket fruit and veg is not as fresh..local grown stuff has the edge and is often cheaper.
Ireland has a fantastic agricultural base it can work off, food is first class.

Unfortunately there has been almost no promotion of Irish products in Asia including food. Even the big boys such as Kerry Group are unknown here. It's all New Zealand, Australia and N.American products. They have focused too much on US and Europe and missed the big opportunities in the East. The government have dropped the ball too with lack of promotion of Ireland so Asians don't reallly know 'brand Ireland' although they do know it is a green and beautiful place.

Anyway start with growing and aiming at the local market and take it from there. It's hard to compete on the international markets unless you have certain technology or industrial scale. Even with organic produce it's hard as you'd have to fly it long-distance and Asia has many organic growers already.

Irish companies can process Irish foods into nutrifoods, semi-processed and processed foods, that's where the big market is. If anybody has any nutrifood type products they can send me a message, I am interested to promote here. There's tonnes of opportunities..food is the big growth market of the 21st century.

By buying locally sourced food from local people the money stays in the economy and it reduces balance of payments, it's a plus and it's better for the environment and your tastebuds.

gbee

Corsendonk wrote: »

You haven't a clue then.

I do. One word for instance "traceability" and only one word.

maninasia

thebman wrote: »

I think its an interesting idea and a good one.

We don't have to be cheaper than imports if they are of higher quality (fresher).

Yes selling to ourselves won't improve exports but it will reduce imports which is also good. We shouldn't really be importing things we don't need or can do for ourselves other than to satisfy the lower end of the market we can't produce for ourselves as our costs are too high.

I'd rather buy fresh Irish veg than veg that has been half way around the world and almost gone off by the time it hits our shelves.

The only problem is getting into the super markets. The problem is the farmer markets are too out of the way with not enough promotion to get people to go to them.

There's an answer to this, online ordering and deliveries from trusted suppliers.

maninasia

Corsendonk wrote: »

Who tells them not to grow them?

The majority of potatoes we import are the waxy baby varieties like Nicola or charlotte or organics that isn't financially viable to grow here because of the low yield but grown on large scale in Israel, Cyprus you can pull in three harvests a year with there climate. So its market factors like any other industry that dictate not the EU. Its amazing how many people use the EU as the excuse for everything, easy option everytime.

QFT. The EU is responsible in part though due to it guaranteeing payments to farmers for leaving land fallow.

Basically it's a marketing problem. Either you promote Irish grown varities in the market OR you look to marketing other vegetables that have competitive edge when grown in Ireland. That edge could be freshness, suitability to Irish climate, uniqueness, farmer known to consumer , convenience etc.

I had visited a farmers market recently in Ireland for the first time (I have lived abroad for a long time'). My opinion is that they didn't have economy of scale, basically there should be one large farmers market in every town/large suburb that people know is available and has a wide range of fresh produce at competitive pricing. Less but bigger and more reliable and open everyday with promotions on certain times.

Corsendonk

maninasia wrote: »

The OPs idea is broadly a good one and spot on. There is loads of underutilised land in Ireland, there's a market for fresh produce it just takes a bit of effort! Healthier, fresher, more organic the better. It's a growth industry too. Supermarket fruit and veg is not as fresh..local grown stuff has the edge and is often cheaper.
Ireland has a fantastic agricultural base it can work off, food is first class.

Unfortunately there has been almost no promotion of Irish products in Asia including food. Even the big boys such as Kerry Group are unknown here. It's all New Zealand, Australia and N.American products. They have focused too much on US and Europe and missed the big opportunities in the East. The government have dropped the ball too with lack of promotion of Ireland so Asians don't reallly know 'brand Ireland' although they do know it is a green and beautiful place.

Anyway start with growing and aiming at the local market and take it from there. It's hard to compete on the international markets unless you have certain technology or industrial scale. Even with organic produce it's hard as you'd have to fly it long-distance and Asia has many organic growers already.

Irish companies can process Irish foods into nutrifoods, semi-processed and processed foods, that's where the big market is. If anybody has any nutrifood type products they can send me a message, I am interested to promote here. There's tonnes of opportunities..food is the big growth market of the 21st century.

By buying locally sourced food from local people the money stays in the economy and it reduces balance of payments, it's a plus and it's better for the environment and your tastebuds.

While you have some worthy points we are talking about growing crops here such as fruit and vegetables so the Asia market wouldn't be a realistic export market due to the distance and escalating air freight costs.

I think your Nutrifoods might find it tougher now that the EU is cracking down on health claims made on labels. So any claim you may make has to have a substantial volume of accredited research to back it up. Then when you have that, promotion begins.

Corsendonk

gbee wrote: »

I do. One word for instance "traceability" and only one word.

Yes they have to have traceability in place, is that wrong? Be aware of there responsibilities as a supplier of food to ensure its safe for the consumer. They also have to register with the local EHO for inspection. And they must follow the EU marketing standards like every other market gardener in Ireland. I don't think any of that is beyond most people and the safety of the consumer is protected.

maninasia

It's no problem for New Zealand to export 100 million trays of Kiwi fruit alone each year. So you need scale and expertise to reach far flung markets and succeed. The same situation happens with cherries flown in from the US and Washington apples.

Many of the vegetables sold in Irish and UK supermarkets have been grown in South Africa and South America. Flowers come in from Asia and Africa through Holland.

But mostly the nutrifood markets is the most applicable starting from a small base and a small company in Ireland due to Ireland's green image worldwide and when I talk about nutrifoods I mean for Asia where there is not so much regulation and cultural factors mean there is already a huge market, China alone is enormous. There is plenty of evidence for nutrifoods out there...from DHA/Omega 3 to healthier oils and antioxidants..the research is there. Asians prefer to buy 'healthy' foods from relatively unpolluted countries like Ireland, that is where the edge is.

gbee

Corsendonk wrote: »

Yes they have to have traceability in place, is that wrong? Be aware of there responsibilities as a supplier of food to ensure its safe for the consumer. They also have to register with the local EHO for inspection. And they must follow the EU marketing standards like every other market gardener in Ireland. I don't think any of that is beyond most people and the safety of the consumer is protected.

See, that's one arm length already.

gbee

maninasia wrote: »

It's no problem for New Zealand to export 100 million trays of Kiwi fruit alone each year.

Are these irradiated?

maninasia

gbee wrote: »

Are these irradiated?

You know most food is irradiated don't you, it helps sterilise and keep it longer and there are no ill effects, they use gamma rays, there is no 'residue' of radiation on the product itself.
Chemicals bad, irradiation irrelevant!

I can tell you what type of foods do well in Asia and would like to source from Asia...some are almost free in Ireland.....but it's not free information!

Corsendonk

maninasia wrote: »

I had visited a farmers market last year in Ireland when I went back. My opinion is that they didn't have economy of scale, basically there should be one large farmers market in every town/large suburb that people know is available and has a wide range of fresh produce at competitive pricing. Less but bigger and more reliable and open everyday with promotions on certain times.

If you go to alot of the farmers markets in areas you will notice the same faces, and the venues change alot as no designated areas, one of the best achivements of Napoleon was to reorganise and rebuild the open air market areas of Paris. Where it gets complicated is what do you define as local food? Certain markets have restricted local to a 60km radius from the market

Also a hugh factor is to re-educate the consumer as there has been a certain loss of consumer knowledge with what looks good and seasonality of crops. You have Irish consumers eating USA strawberries at Xmas because they want them.