Bring back the punt? yay nay?

caseyann

http://www.independent.ie/business/leaving-the-euro-might-well-be-our-least-bad-option-2392372.html
Leaving the euro might well be our 'least bad' option

With the ESRI now predicting that further tax increases and spending cuts of up to €15bn will be needed to meet the Government's target of cutting the budget deficit to 3 per cent of GDP by 2014, Ireland faces the bleak choice of either quitting the euro or facing a decade or more of depression and deflation.


I will for one be delighted when it happens,and cant happen soon enough.

Galway K9

I agree but will lead to another price hike! cause shops gonna round off.

Iwasfrozen

It will never happen. The euro is the world's 2nd largest reserve currency.

caseyann

Galway K9 wrote: »

I agree but will lead to another price hike! cause shops gonna round off.

The funniest thing is i dont believe so i feel will bring back value.England was smart not changing over.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It will never happen. The euro is the world's 2nd largest reserve currency.

And? which is infact falling apart at the sems.And you would like Ireland hanging on the apron strings of collapse.

oppenheimer1

It ignores the huge problem and fact that our debt is denominated in euro.

caseyann

I wish we could have a poll on this to get an idea how many for and against it would be.

3DataModem

Please please please redenominate my mortgage in Punt.

dontbossme

caseyann wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/leaving-the-euro-might-well-be-our-least-bad-option-2392372.html
Leaving the euro might well be our 'least bad' option

With the ESRI now predicting that further tax increases and spending cuts of up to €15bn will be needed to meet the Government's target of cutting the budget deficit to 3 per cent of GDP by 2014, Ireland faces the bleak choice of either quitting the euro or facing a decade or more of depression and deflation.


I will for one be delighted when it happens,and cant happen soon enough.

I AM WIT YOU:::::D

yoshytoshy

It's not the euro thats the problem.

They will save our ass in the long run ,so can't see the point in pulling a mooner in front of them now.
It's the spoofers in this country that raped our euro.

coolhandspan

lets just give the country back to the queen and apoligise for all the mess......:)

caseyann

dontbossme wrote: »

I AM WIT YOU:::::D

I remember my last payment in Irish punt and my first week in Euro(tears of pain) lol,i knew then what is obvious now.The euro and getting deeper in with the EU was going to be ruination of Eire.

caseyann

yoshytoshy wrote: »

It's not the euro thats the problem.

They will save our ass in the long run ,so can't see the point in pulling a mooner in front of them now.
It's the spoofers in this country that raped our euro.

Which the euro and weak income tax caused.

Galway K9

Years ago, if ya had twenty euro you were loaded, it was loads and had great value, the euro feels and spends like monopoly money.

oppenheimer1

3DataModem wrote: »

Please please please redenominate my mortgage in Punt.

It would be this that would ultimately fail a return to the punt. Forcing people to buy euro to pay off the massive levels of private debt with a devalued currency would lead to extraordinary inflation. Not only that but there would be a flight of money from the country. Leaving monetary union is simply not an option and I don't know why people still float it as an idea worth talking about. The Punt would be worthless outside of Ireland. Who would want to hold a currency thats under pressure to be devalued? Interest rates would be astronomical.

One thing which we should be thankful of during the crisis is the relative stability of the euro. Sure it makes us take difficult decisions but ultimately these are the correct ones. A devaluation would only lead to stagflation anyway because it doesn't address the major issue being thousands of mainly young men are only skilled in construction or are unskilled.

Unless the developed economy and nation are willing to go back to a semi developed state with associated wages to attract inward investment and create light manufacturing jobs (and compete with the far east) a devaluation would fail in its main objective.

Manach

Given that a currency draws its strength from its perceived foundation - which would people rather rely on. Our government or the Bundesbank.

greendom

The euro has saved Ireland from ruinous interest rates and inflation. Not to mention the fact that the ECB has completely saved our butts. Thank God we have the euro as our currency. Just a shame we didn't have Europe in charge of our banks.

yoshytoshy

caseyann wrote: »

Which the euro and weak income tax caused.

Lets forget about europe ,tulips are all we need.


Now available in Ireland.

caseyann

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

It would be this that would ultimately fail a return to the punt. Forcing people to buy euro to pay off the massive levels of private debt with a devalued currency would lead to extraordinary inflation. Not only that but there would be a flight of money from the country. Leaving monetary union is simply not an option and I don't know why people still float it as an idea worth talking about. The Punt would be worthless outside of Ireland. Who would want to hold a currency thats under pressure to be devalued? Interest rates would be astronomical.

One thing which we should be thankful of during the crisis is the relative stability of the euro. Sure it makes us take difficult decisions but ultimately these are the correct ones. A devaluation would only lead to stagflation anyway because it doesn't address the major issue being thousands of mainly young men are only skilled in construction or are unskilled.

Unless the developed economy and nation are willing to go back to a semi developed state with associated wages to attract inward investment and create light manufacturing jobs (and compete with the far east) a devaluation would fail in its main objective.

While reverting to an independent Irish currency, which would trade at a significant discount to the euro, would not be a cost-free option -- far from it -- it is almost certainly the least-bad choice we face.

Leaving the euro would not force us out of the EU. Several prosperous EU members, including the UK, Sweden and Denmark, have retained their own national currencies. Neither would it impair our ability to attract overseas investment as, not alone would we retain access to the Single European Market, the cost of doing business in Ireland would plunge when converted into euro, sterling or dollars.

Finally, with the exception of the banks, who have been forced to sell their overseas operations, leaving the euro would be very good for most of our leading quoted companies. These include CRH, Kerry, Aryzta, Smurfit, Ryanair and Grafton, which do the bulk of their business abroad, as the foreign exchange they earn overseas would be worth much more when converted back into Irish currency.

In the link above.
Punt wont trade less but value will increase and beneficial to Irish trade and people.

caseyann

greendom wrote: »

The euro has saved Ireland from ruinous interest rates and inflation. Not to mention the fact that the ECB has completely saved our butts. Thank God we have the euro as our currency. Just a shame we didn't have Europe in charge of our banks.

Saved us? How you figure?Irish economy was racing along Irish punt was of good value and higher value than the euro before change over.You think you got better money and value in actual fact you havent. The euro is like a race horse good for few years then you got to put it out to pasture.The only reason Ireland took the euro was because of the boom,not because it was increasing it.



p.s how come there isnt any polls on here?thanks

greendom

caseyann wrote: »

Saved us? How you figure?Irish economy was racing along Irish punt was of good value and higher value than the euro before change over.You think you got better money and value in actual fact you havent. The euro is like a race horse good for few years then you got to put it out to pasture.The only reason Ireland took the euro was because of the boom,not because it was increasing it.

If the crash had occurred with our own independent currency, the Central Bank would have been forced to raise interest rates to stop the currency from sliding too much. But slide it would forcing up the price of exports and causing inflation to increase. The problems we currently face would have been multiplied many times. Ireland adopted the euro for sound economic reasons. Little did they realise at the time just how sound those reasons were.

the groutch

greendom wrote: »

The euro has saved Ireland from ruinous interest rates and inflation.

if we had control over our own interest rates the property bubble would never have gotten so big

southsiderosie

caseyann wrote: »

Punt wont trade less but value will increase and beneficial to Irish trade and people.

What?

Ireland has to import most of its consumer goods. Going back to the punt would be terrible for consumers. In addition, most Irish consumer debt is denominated in euros. Paying this debt in punts, which would be valued at a significantly lower rate than the euro would be devastating. Even if there were some kind of program to convert internal consumer debt to punts, the government's external debt is in euros and, again, it would not be able to pay it unless it printed thousands and thousands of punts, thus driving up inflation and making it harder again on consumers.

As for exporters, a return to the punt would be a return to macroeconomic economic uncertainly, which I doubt many have the stomach for. Most exporting countries maintain a very stable currency, which reduced transaction costs. And the prospect of future stability under the euro is part of what made Ireland attractive to multinationals in the 1990s; a return to the punt would blow this whole system up in their faces.

caseyann wrote: »

Saved us? How you figure?Irish economy was racing along Irish punt was of good value and higher value than the euro before change over.You think you got better money and value in actual fact you havent. The euro is like a race horse good for few years then you got to put it out to pasture.The only reason Ireland took the euro was because of the boom,not because it was increasing it.

p.s how come there isnt any polls on here?thanks

Another part of the reason why the Irish economy was racing along in the 1990s was because the government specifically developed stable macroeconomic policies to prepare it to enter the eurozone. And then once they were in, they lost their minds.

I think a major reason why Ireland should stay in the Euro zone is because the Irish government has proven - AGAIN - that it has no idea how to properly run an economy, and the euro forces some level of fiscal discipline that they are incapable of implementing on their own.

oppenheimer1

caseyann wrote: »

While reverting to an independent Irish currency, which would trade at a significant discount to the euro, would not be a cost-free option -- far from it -- it is almost certainly the least-bad choice we face.

Leaving the euro would not force us out of the EU. Several prosperous EU members, including the UK, Sweden and Denmark, have retained their own national currencies. Neither would it impair our ability to attract overseas investment as, not alone would we retain access to the Single European Market, the cost of doing business in Ireland would plunge when converted into euro, sterling or dollars.

Finally, with the exception of the banks, who have been forced to sell their overseas operations, leaving the euro would be very good for most of our leading quoted companies. These include CRH, Kerry, Aryzta, Smurfit, Ryanair and Grafton, which do the bulk of their business abroad, as the foreign exchange they earn overseas would be worth much more when converted back into Irish currency.

In the link above.
Punt wont trade less but value will increase and beneficial to Irish trade and people.

I never suggested that leaving the euro would force us out of the union. It would be a major event and would force the union to critically appraise its direction. The euro is a key pillar and the most potent symbol of european integration, a member state needing to leave because it no longer fits would be a momentous event. That withstanding, there are members that operate outside the currency.

The article doesn't deal with my main argument, which is debt. Debt and unemployment are the nations too largest economic issues. Leaving the euro doesn't solve the debt problem as all debt is denominated in euro. A person paying off a euro loan would need to give a larger percentage of their wages to buy euro to pay off the debt. Its also a problem the government would face on a larger scale. It doesn't solve the employment problem either which is skills based, unless of course the devaluation is so steep that it allows us to compete in light manufacturing.

While exporters would do well out of this, it ignores the fact that we need to import a lot of raw materials.Oil would become expensive as inflation takes hold. This would create need for higher wages which could spark further devaluation. In this environment who would want to hold Irish currency? What kind of interest rates would they demand? Would they even be willing?

Fundamentally a devaluation doesn't address the core structural problems at the heart of the Irish economy, being debt and lack of transferable skills. An exit from the euro would most likely lead to a prolonged period of stagflation and a catastrophic loss in living standards.


Furthermore, given the nature of the currency, how would one even go about leaving? There is no mechanism for it.

greendom

the groutch wrote: »

if we had control over our own interest rates the property bubble would never have gotten so big

Do you think? I see the logic with this, but then why didn't the government try other methods to slow down the rise in property prices, rather than encourage them to grow even faster with property tax breaks ?

southsiderosie

greendom wrote: »

Do you think? I see the logic with this, but then why didn't the government try other methods to slow down the rise in property prices, rather than encourage them to grow even faster with property tax breaks ?

I agree. One of the biggest failures of the boom was the failure of the government to use fiscal tools to cool the economy since they couldn't use monetary policy. But that would require careful planning and forethought.

It really is a shame though, since it seems like people worked really hard in the 80s and 90s to prepare Ireland for the euro, and then it all went off the rails in under a decade.

Het-Field

greendom wrote: »

The euro has saved Ireland from ruinous interest rates and inflation. Not to mention the fact that the ECB has completely saved our butts. Thank God we have the euro as our currency. Just a shame we didn't have Europe in charge of our banks.

Please tell me you are joking ? While our link to the Euro is desirable at present, given the prestige it bestows, the euro has been a root cause of the international facet of the crisis which we now face. Artificially set interest rates provided access to cheap credit from a plethora of sources across Europe. These low interest rates prevent inflation in monetary terms, but it simply shifted the inflationary effect into certain markets, most notably the property market. Cheap credit has been a fundamental cause of this problem, and it is due to the euro that said credit was available. If the ECB let the market decide interest rates, this would allow for the most creditworthy to access funds, and the rest would be left behind. Artificially low interest rates are bad. This is what the Euro has brought us.

While I would prefer to remain within the Euro, it is an ignorant man who will launch a robust defence of the Euro, and consider it as an entirely positive force.

caseyann

greendom wrote: »

If the crash had occurred with our own independent currency, the Central Bank would have been forced to raise interest rates to stop the currency from sliding too much. But slide it would forcing up the price of exports and causing inflation to increase. The problems we currently face would have been multiplied many times. Ireland adopted the euro for sound economic reasons. Little did they realise at the time just how sound those reasons were.

That is basic guess work and you have no valid argument to say that it would be worse nor how it would have been dealt with.

southsiderosie

Het-Field wrote: »

Please tell me you are joking ? While our link to the Euro is desirable at present, given the prestige it bestows, the euro has been a root cause of the international facet of the crisis which we now face. Artificially set interest rates provided access to cheap credit from a plethora of sources across Europe. These low interest rates prevent inflation in monetary terms, but it simply shifted the inflationary effect into certain markets, most notably the property market. Cheap credit has been a fundamental cause of this problem, and it is due to the euro that said credit was available. If the ECB let the market decide interest rates, this would allow for the most creditworthy to access funds, and the rest would be left behind. Artificially low interest rates are bad. This is what the Euro has brought us.

While I would prefer to remain within the Euro, it is an ignorant man who will launch a robust defence of the Euro, and consider it as an entirely positive force.

But there are regulatory ways to deal with cheap credit and low interest rates (for example, large down payments on homes, tax policy, etc). Clearly there needs to be both domestic and EU-wide policy adjustments, but just dumping the euro is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

southsiderosie

caseyann wrote: »

That is basic guess work and you have no valid argument to say that it would be worse nor how it would have been dealt with.

It's not guesswork, its how monetary policy works.

Boxtyeater

Galway K9 wrote: »

Years ago, if ya had twenty euro you were loaded, it was loads and had great value, the euro feels and spends like monopoly money.

I would take from youer comment that you never grew up in the £sd system...Poorer times my a mile..

caseyann

southsiderosie wrote: »

What?

Ireland has to import most of its consumer goods. Going back to the punt would be terrible for consumers. In addition, most Irish consumer debt is denominated in euros. Paying this debt in punts, which would be valued at a significantly lower rate than the euro would be devastating. Even if there were some kind of program to convert internal consumer debt to punts, the government's external debt is in euros and, again, it would not be able to pay it unless it printed thousands and thousands of punts, thus driving up inflation and making it harder again on consumers.

As for exporters, a return to the punt would be a return to macroeconomic economic uncertainly, which I doubt many have the stomach for. Most exporting countries maintain a very stable currency, which reduced transaction costs. And the prospect of future stability under the euro is part of what made Ireland attractive to multinationals in the 1990s; a return to the punt would blow this whole system up in their faces.



Another part of the reason why the Irish economy was racing along in the 1990s was because the government specifically developed stable macroeconomic policies to prepare it to enter the eurozone. And then once they were in, they lost their minds.

I think a major reason why Ireland should stay in the Euro zone is because the Irish government has proven - AGAIN - that it has no idea how to properly run an economy, and the euro forces some level of fiscal discipline that they are incapable of implementing on their own.

Here in is the problem made it attractive to every chancer and income tax avoider in world :P

Funny that i dont think the Irish government had anyway of knowing Irish would agree to the euro been brought in.So your argument is nil and void.
I foretold this disaster the year before the euro came in.Smelled failure and economic unbalance.
And sorry not for you to say time and time again about Irish government the state of the country lies in hands of one government and their PD suck ups no previous counterparts.
The EU having any claim over our finances has been a disaster from start to finish.Only sections that any will adhere to help is the ones they gain from and it is not in the Irish interest it is done.

yoshytoshy

I don't get what the fascination with the punt is. There was a Sinn Fein push on the punt ,so we could try and deflate the currency again.
But it sounded like laymans tripe ,to get peoples attention.

caseyann

southsiderosie wrote: »

It's not guesswork, its how monetary policy works.

Ah is it nice to know,funny that i read if,as it didnt happen so therefore guesswork and no way would have been such a economic disaster as there is now.

the groutch

greendom wrote: »

Do you think? I see the logic with this, but then why didn't the government try other methods to slow down the rise in property prices, rather than encourage them to grow even faster with property tax breaks ?

I think the Central Bank would have prefered to have increased base rate to try stem inflation had it the power to do so (especially in the early naughties when it went over 5%), which would have in turn cooled down the property market

ps. sorry if I'm over-simplifying it a bit, I'm sure there were a hundred and one other factors at the time (including the tax breaks you mentioned), but I wouldnt have enough insight into the finer details of those to comment on the extent of their effect on the housing market

caseyann

The Knickerless Nun wrote: »

Yay...nay? What are you a donkey? Yeah bring back the punt I say !

Love your username cheek of ya :eek::p is mise asal

djpbarry

Het-Field wrote: »

Cheap credit has been a fundamental cause of this problem, and it is due to the euro that said credit was available.

The fundamental cause of this problem, in Ireland’s case, was the Irish land-owning psychosis combined with the creation of an environment that encouraged an orgy of property speculation.

Had we been selling ****e to each other for Punts rather than Euros, I’m pretty confident the government would still have done all in its power to ensure that the country contained more houses than there were people to live in them. Because that’s what people wanted.

southsiderosie

caseyann wrote: »

Here in is the problem made it attractive to every chancer and income tax avoider in world :P

Funny that i dont think the Irish government had anyway of knowing Irish would agree to the euro been brought in.So your argument is nil and void.
I foretold this disaster the year before the euro came in.Smelled failure and economic unbalance.

And sorry not for you to say time and time again about Irish government the state of the country lies in hands of one government and their PD suck ups no previous counterparts.

The EU having any claim over our finances has been a disaster from start to finish.Only sections that any will adhere to help is the ones they gain from and it is not in the Irish interest it is done.

caseyann, your post makes no sense.

First, countries had to decide a decade before if they were going to push for euro eligibility or not, since most had to make significant changes in fiscal and macroeconomic policy. This was a long time in the making.

Second, the EU having a say over the way Ireland ran its economy brought the only period of macroeconomic stability and rapid growth in the history of the Republic. And I don't know what you are talking about with the "it's not for me to say" about the Irish government and its mismanagement of the economy; decades of emigration and poverty are evidence of that.

caseyann wrote: »

Ah is it nice to know,funny that i read if,as it didnt happen so therefore guesswork and no way would have been such a economic disaster as there is now.

This is even more incomprehensible than your previous post - what are you trying to say here?

southsiderosie

Without cutting and pasting from the article, can anyone who is in favor of returning to the punt please explain exactly what benefits they think this will have, and how they outweigh the costs? Because I am seeing reasons from paying back loans to economic sovereignty, and the implications of these are very different.

caseyann

southsiderosie wrote: »

caseyann, your post makes no sense.

First, countries had to decide a decade before if they were going to push for euro eligibility or not, since most had to make significant changes in fiscal and macroeconomic policy. This was a long time in the making.

Second, the EU having a say over the way Ireland ran its economy brought the only period of macroeconomic stability and rapid growth in the history of the Republic. And I don't know what you are talking about with the "it's not for me to say" about the Irish government and its mismanagement of the economy; decades of emigration and poverty are evidence of that.



This is even more incomprehensible than your previous post - what are you trying to say here?

The countries didnt decide the people did,meaning if Irish said no,it would have been no.Get me now?
And no this country government did not have poverty and bad or mismanagement economics previously.We were well and truly onto a boom and euro was a bad move to take on like currency.Should have stayed like Britain.And it was without mass emigrants and without euro deficit.Irish built this country.Having the Euro be introduced did not increase economics nor did increase standard of living.
And EU whether in or out would have made trade with Eire so again nil an void.

oppenheimer1

caseyann wrote: »

Here in is the problem made it attractive to every chancer and income tax avoider in world :P

Funny that i dont think the Irish government had anyway of knowing Irish would agree to the euro been brought in.So your argument is nil and void.
I foretold this disaster the year before the euro came in.Smelled failure and economic unbalance.

The euro was put to the people in the Maastrict treaty. The Irish chose to ditch the punt and enter monetary union

And sorry not for you to say time and time again about Irish government the state of the country lies in hands of one government and their PD suck ups no previous counterparts.
The EU having any claim over our finances has been a disaster from start to finish.Only sections that any will adhere to help is the ones they gain from and it is not in the Irish interest it is done.

To lay the blame on the EU for our current situation is wrong and grossly unfair. If I recall correctly McCreevy was chastised by the commission for his budgets which introduced the tax breaks that ultimately led to the construction boom. Yes interest rates were unsuitably low for the irish economy and were set to address the sluggish growth the german economy was facing at the time. Unpopular decisions should have been taken by the government at the time to take the hear out of the economy. (In the party political system wh have this would have led to them being turfed out of office for "destroying the economy"). Interest rates were not the only lever the government and central bank had at its disposal to control lending.

While there are many players in the disaster that has befallen us with each player having a vital role, ultimately it was a failure of regulation and weak government that caused the crisis.

caseyann

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The euro was put to the people in the Maastrict treaty. The Irish chose to ditch the punt and enter monetary union


To lay the blame on the EU for our current situation is wrong and grossly unfair. If I recall correctly McCreevy was chastised by the commission for his budgets which introduced the tax breaks that ultimately led to the construction boom. Yes interest rates were unsuitably low for the irish economy and were set to address the sluggish growth the german economy was facing at the time. Unpopular decisions should have been taken by the government at the time to take the hear out of the economy. (In the party political system wh have this would have led to them being turfed out of office for "destroying the economy"). Interest rates were not the only lever the government and central bank had at its disposal to control lending.

While there are many players in the disaster that has befallen us with each player having a vital role, ultimately it was a failure of regulation and weak government that caused the crisis.

Do you remember why they decided that?

Het-Field

southsiderosie wrote: »

But there are regulatory ways to deal with cheap credit and low interest rates (for example, large down payments on homes, tax policy, etc). Clearly there needs to be both domestic and EU-wide policy adjustments, but just dumping the euro is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

That would predicated on governmental responsibility, which is something which cannot be trusted if the antecedents of the current crop (nationally and internationally) are in place.

Further, such regulation could have the opposite effect of stifling markets. Over regulation can be just as bad, if not worse. Why not simply let the market decide interest rates ?

Again, im not proposing leaving the Eurozone. I am simply critical of past activities of the zone, and my belief that the first eleven years of the euro will not be looked upon in a favourable manner.

Lockstep

Read the opening post but most of my thoughts on the matter have already been articulated.
However, there does seem to be a lot of talk about devaluation, which isn't a good idea for us right now. It works great if you're export driven country with a low public debt (like Russia) but for a country with public debt and unsustainable borrowing, it'd be a disaster as the debt would remain the same but we'd be trying to pay it back with devalued currency.

Above all, it doesn't address the fundamental weaknesses of our economy.

As it stands, more and more of our trade is being done with other EUcountries (our trade with the rest of the EU is something like 2.5 times our trade with the UK, which has traditionally been our economic dominator) and the Euro's ability to act as a transparent convergence currency really helps, especially with our tourism trade.

oppenheimer1

caseyann wrote: »

Do you remember why they decided that?

I was very young at the time but surely the electorate gave thought and consideration to all aspects of the treaty and were not bought off with the concessions and subsidy which Reynolds won at the negotiation.

Het-Field

djpbarry wrote: »

The fundamental cause of this problem, in Ireland’s case, was the Irish land-owning psychosis combined with the creation of an environment that encouraged an orgy of property speculation.

Had we been selling ****e to each other for Punts rather than Euros, I’m pretty confident the government would still have done all in its power to ensure that the country contained more houses than there were people to live in them. Because that’s what people wanted.

That is questionable. I understand that the "property zeitgeist" was not limited to the Irish jurisdiction. However, our access to credit to fuel such an orgy would have been greatly diminished if we were not trading in Euro. Thus, it is questionable whether the magnitude of the difficulties we face would be as great. Naturally, this ignores the prestige which the Euro provides, but our current reliance on the ECB may not have been required.

ArtSmart

well we are up shiit creek, but only if a paddle is supplied.

course if we get the floods we got last years, it's punts for all, paddle or no.

Lockstep

caseyann wrote: »

And no this country government did not have poverty and bad or mismanagement economics previously.

We took over Turkey's mantle as the "Sick man of Europe" for most of the 20th century.
Poverty, mismanagement and poor economics were part and parcel of Ireland, long before we joined the Euro and especially before we joined the EC.

southsiderosie

caseyann wrote: »

The countries didnt decide the people did,meaning if Irish said no,it would have been no.Get me now?
And no this country government did not have poverty and bad or mismanagement economics previously.We were well and truly onto a boom and euro was a bad move to take on like currency.Should have stayed like Britain.And it was without mass emigrants and without euro deficit.Irish built this country.Having the Euro be introduced did not increase economics nor did increase standard of living.
And EU whether in or out would have made trade with Eire so again nil an void.

ARE YOU REALLY TRYING TO SAY THAT FOR MOST OF IRELAND'S MODERN HISTORY THE COUNTRY WAS NOT POOR, AND EMIGRATION WAS NOT A FACT OF LIFE FOR MANY??? REALLY???

You do know that Irish history didn't start in 1995, right?

Ireland could never "Stay like Britain". Sterling is a global currency, and London is a center for global trade and finance. It also has many many times the population of Ireland. It is not even comparable in terms of its role in the global economy.

Ireland couldn't even be like the Danes (who did not enter the eurozone) because it had a reputation as an economic basketcase, whereas the Danish have somehow managed to not **** up their economy again and again.

The decision to join the euro was made in 1991, but it wasn't the common currency until a decade later. Were you really warning people in 1990 about the evils of the euro? Really? Color me incredulous.

caseyann

kickoutthejams wrote: »

We took over Turkey's mantle as the "Sick man of Europe" for most of the 20th century.
Poverty, mismanagement and poor economics were part and parcel of Ireland, long before we joined the Euro and especially before we joined the EC.

We were well on the road to economic stability and would have stayed on same road and better without the currency change and free ride for others.This country has been merely a stepping stone for economic and trade levels for others to ride on back of so they become more enriched.We changed over to the Euro the country sank that day.With the free economic luxuries and none in return.
Time people saw it for what it is Ireland been taken for mug like always.
Britain smelled it mile off.

Het-Field

caseyann wrote: »

We were well on the road to economic stability and would have stayed on same road and better without the currency change and free ride for others.This country has been merely a stepping stone for economic and trade levels for others to ride on back of so they become more enriched.We changed over to the Euro the country sank that day.With the free economic luxuries and none in return.
Time people saw it for what it is Ireland been taken for mug like always.
Britain smelled it mile off.

And the Conservative Party were not trying to stave off the Norman Tebbitt style anti-EU sentiment through compromise during the passage of the Maastricht Treaty ?

caseyann

southsiderosie wrote: »

ARE YOU REALLY TRYING TO SAY THAT FOR MOST OF IRELAND'S MODERN HISTORY THE COUNTRY WAS NOT POOR, AND EMIGRATION WAS NOT A FACT OF LIFE FOR MANY??? REALLY???

You do know that Irish history didn't start in 1995, right?

Ireland could never "Stay like Britain". Sterling is a global currency, and London is a center for global trade and finance. It also has many many times the population of Ireland. It is not even comparable in terms of its role in the global economy.

Ireland couldn't even be like the Danes (who did not enter the eurozone) because it had a reputation as an economic basketcase, whereas the Danish have somehow managed to not **** up their economy again and again.

The decision to join the euro was made in 1991, but it wasn't the common currency until a decade later. Were you really warning people in 1990 about the evils of the euro? Really? Color me incredulous.

let me think yes i am.Ireland was well out of the poverty trap and the Irish people were building this country long before we got any real help.Only US and German businesses invested in Ireland properly.But as usual to their benefit cheap rent and cheap labour.

Want to get smart with me,just because i can see red herring long before some not my fault.
I did and dont care if you believe me,warned of it as did others long before it came in.Warned about fianna fail last term should have been 8 years ago also.

And who made that decision yes Irish people,Therefore we can remove it.

p.s if you want to talk history of what was caused by other nationalities also previously in this country head over to the history and heritage or humanities forums.