Homeopathic Medicine.. does it work ?

Rigsby

The vet I bring my dog to believes in Homeopathic Medicine as well as conventional medicine. I have no opinions either way on this, but just wanted to get some views or opinions here. I know the basic idea is to kick start the body's natural healing mechanism, but is there any hard evidence that it actually works ?

amazingemmet

There is no evidence Homeopathy works at all, it has never been shown to be better then a placebo in any trials.

kylith

There is no evidence that it works any better than placebo.

fourcats

farrington.vet@gmail.com Try this site and see what you think.

Rosemarie.

Rancid

Rigsby wrote: »

The vet I bring my dog to believes in Homeopathic Medicine as well as conventional medicine. I have no opinions either way on this, but just wanted to get some views or opinions here. I know the basic idea is to kick start the body's natural healing mechanism, but is there any hard evidence that it actually works ?

My vet also uses Homoeopathic remedies as well as conventional medicine and that's one of the reasons I chose him.
I've found Homoeopathy to be quite successful both for myself and my cats.
The best example I can give is this: My 7 year old neutered tom cat had started marking his territory INSIDE the house as well as the garden. After 4 or 5 days on Staphysagria the indoor marking and spraying stopped 100% and he continued to spray in the garden. A very specific and positive result!

Tigger

i'm confident homeopathy is total nonsense
any placebo effect that it has on humans is irrelevant to animals

if yer using it to treat cats spraying in the house then fire away but not for anything serious please

Discodog

I also believe it to be pointless & just an expensive placebo. It can also be very dangerous if you rely on it rather than "normal" medical care.

I am sure that there are a few Vets that believe it (if maybe from the placebo aspect). But I am also sure that some will offer it as an additional profit centre in that they know that some clients are looking for alternative therapies.

doctor evil

If water had 'memory' which is the basis of homeopathy would it not remember all the sh*t* it had been through?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0

Rigsby

Tigger wrote: »

if yer using it to treat cats spraying in the house then fire away but not for anything serious please

I doubt very much that any serious animal lover would endorse using it as a stand alone treatment for anything serious.



Some have mentioned about vets making a profit from it. The vet I currently go to, is a lot cheaper than the previous two, who did not use homeopathy.

Rancid

Rigsby wrote: »

I doubt very much that any serious animal lover would endorse using it as a stand alone treatment for anything serious....

As a complementary medicine, it's very useful in treating many non-serious conditions, obviously it's not to be relied on for every illness, but ongoing chronic ailments respond well to it.
That's why any vet using Homoeopathic remedies is also a fully qualified vet!

Rigsby

Rancid wrote: »

As a complementary medicine, it's very useful in treating many non-serious conditions, obviously it's not to be relied on for every illness, but ongoing chronic ailments respond well to it.
That's why any vet using Homoeopathic remedies is also a fully qualified vet!

Thanks for that.

My vet seems to use it as a kind of follow up treatment, after performing whatever is required on the "conventional" side of things.

As I said in my original post, I have no opinions on this either way, but I have no problem following the vets advice and administering this medicine, if it, in any small way, helps to improve my pet's health.

Whispered

Discodog wrote: »

I also believe it to be pointless & just an expensive placebo. It can also be very dangerous if you rely on it rather than "normal" medical care.

+1

Placebos wouldn't work on animals. I don't know enough about it to comment on homeopathic medicine, but I do know people who swear by it for themselves and their pets.

I think that as usual when a thread like this comes up it is very important to point out that ANY complementary therapist (whatever the therapy) should always advise that therapy should only be used to complement proper vet/doctor care.

Cherry Blossom

I have seen equissage work miracles on jittery mares. It may have some scientific basis though, release of endorphines, mimics the grooming they perform on each other etc. I suppose it may depend on the particular treatment.

pokertalk

placebo does not work on animals so if it helps then its working in my opinion.my mother had cancer and the traditional treatment was making her very ill so she went with the homeopathy and it worked for her ,she is in remission now. it is very expensive

kylith

pokertalk wrote: »

placebo does not work on animals so if it helps then its working in my opinion.my mother had cancer and the traditional treatment was making her very ill so she went with the homeopathy and it worked for her ,she is in remission now. it is very expensive

That's all part of the placebo effect; studies have shown that the more expensive the treatment the better it works.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_effect#Mechanism_of_the_effect

fourcats

I was delighted to see your reply regarding your neutered tom. I too am having the same problem with a neutered tom. It started a couple of years ago when a stray started visiting through the cat flap, now when he plays with our dog he gets carried away and sprays just for the hell of it - tried everything, including hormone tablets to no avail. In what form did you give the staphysagnia and what potency? would appreciate any suggestions.
Many thanks
Rosemarie

Tigger

pokertalk wrote: »

placebo does not work on animals so if it helps then its working in my opinion.my mother had cancer and the traditional treatment was making her very ill so she went with the homeopathy and it worked for her ,she is in remission now. it is very expensive

Ok glad she's doing well

Homeopathy is water water it shouldt be epensive

kylith

pokertalk wrote: »

placebo does not work on animals so if it helps then its working in my opinion.

Actually there is acase of placebo-by-proxy where the vet's assurances mean that the owner can believe they see an improvement. There's also the possibility that the owner being less stressed about the animals illness means that the animal is less stressed and therefore appears better.

The case studies at the end are very interesting.
http://www.ukskeptics.com/article.php?dir=articles&article=it_works_in_animals.php

The link to the dairy cow study doesn't work, but I found this one:
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1751-0147-44-97.pdf

Shenshen

Rigsby wrote: »

The vet I bring my dog to believes in Homeopathic Medicine as well as conventional medicine. I have no opinions either way on this, but just wanted to get some views or opinions here. I know the basic idea is to kick start the body's natural healing mechanism, but is there any hard evidence that it actually works ?

Homeopathy works on the principle that any substance that would cause certain symptoms can be used to cure any sickness that displays the same symptoms. All substances get watered down to such a degree that mathematically, there is next to no chance of a single molecule of the substance in the resulting solution.
The theory is that water "memorises" the substance, so the more you water it down, the more potent it becomes.

It's up to you if you want to believe it or not. If you do, getting drunk should become a whole lot cheaper.

Scientifically, no study that I'm aware of ever showed it to be any more effective than placebos.

Rancid

fourcats wrote: »

I was delighted to see your reply regarding your neutered tom. I too am having the same problem with a neutered tom. It started a couple of years ago when a stray started visiting through the cat flap, now when he plays with our dog he gets carried away and sprays just for the hell of it - tried everything, including hormone tablets to no avail. In what form did you give the staphysagnia and what potency? would appreciate any suggestions.
Many thanks
Rosemarie

I think it was the potency was 6, the one that has the most physical effects and it was in the form of a liquid, literally just 2 little pillules dissolved in a tiny bottle of water and shaken.
As far as I can remember I gave the cat 5ml twice a day between meals.
It's important to administer it an hour after food, and at least an hour before the next food.

Before the vet prescribed this remedy, he examined him thoroughly for any signs of urinary tract infection, or any other condition that could cause the excessive spraying and only then prescribed the homoeopathic remedy.

Nonoperational

Homeopathy is 100% nonsense. There are no ifs buts or maybe's.

Rancid

When my daughter was aged 4 or 5 she had recurring strep throat infections and antibiotics each time.
Our Homoeopath prescribed Homoeopathic Sulphur and the redness and swelling were gone in 3 or 4 days.
And it actually seemed to give her some immunity from it for several years.

Owen

Part of me is disappointed that people would give their animals water and pay for it, depriving them of actual medicine, but part of me is more disappointed that people believe in Homeopathy. It's just water.

DeVore

If "alternative medicine" worked and be shown to have worked... it would be called "medicine".


DeV.

sligopark

No expert but I remember reading somewhere that because homeopathic remedies worked with animals it was an arguement agianst the placebo thing although the owner's reassurance thing would implicate something else at work

Owen

Homeopathy is based on the assertion (Or made up malarky if you like) that water has a memory. So what they do is they take something which causes similar symptoms to what you're suffering from, and stir it around in water. Then take a drop or two of that water, dilute it, take a drop of that water, dilute it, and keep doing that.

The problem is threefold.

1. Curing illnesses by administering something that causes similar symptoms is a bit daft.
2. By the time all the dilution has happened, the original liquid is so watered down that if you had a swimming pool of water, there wouldn't be so much as a particle in it. *That's* how much dilution we're talking about.
3. If water really does have a memory for the things it's carried, how come it doesn't remember to carry things like poo, urine, used condoms, diseases and only remembers the happy homeopathy stuff?

It's just water. Water water water. That's all. It's made with good intentions yes, but absolutely no science, no logic, no common sense, and no brains. For the good of your pets give them real medicine - same applies to kids. Gambling their health with hocus pocus is not on.

Discodog

DeVore wrote: »

If "alternative medicine" worked and be shown to have worked... it would be called "medicine".


DeV.

Gosh we are honoured - unusual to see you in these parts !. I agree & I suspect that there is a placebo effect of sorts in Animals. I don't mean the sugar pill type but the extra attention that may come from being treated.

We all recover better when we are unstressed & feel a bit loved. Why should it be any different for an animal ?.

sligopark

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Homeopathy is based on the assertion (Or made up malarky if you like) that water has a memory.

didn't a japanese scientist years ago write a book about water crystal memory and the emotive imprinting upon these same crystals - any one else heard of it?

pokertalk

DeVore wrote: »

If "alternative medicine" worked and be shown to have worked... it would be called "medicine".


DeV.

as i said in my eairler post my mother had cancer and came off her durgs course and went for this alternative medicine and she has not got the cancer anymore. now i dont know much about alternative medicines but cant see how a placebo can cure cancer. if it works then its medicine no????
its also n h s approved with is something

Whispered

Can we please call it complementary medicine. It should never be used as an alternative.

/butting in.

Cherry Blossom

PaintDoctor wrote: »

3. If water really does have a memory for the things it's carried, how come it doesn't remember to carry things like poo, urine, used condoms, diseases and only remembers the happy homeopathy stuff?

I'm never drinking water again on the off chance that it does remember those things

Cavehill Red

pokertalk wrote: »

its also n h s approved with is something

When I was younger Lucozade was NHS approved. And not that long ago, you got Guinness from the blood transfusion board when you donated.
There is strong opposition from actual medics to morons in NHS admin approving nonsense like this. It's notable that they no longer approve training programmes in it for medics. They'll stop funding this bullcrap soon enough, especially with the cuts Britain is undergoing.
I'm glad your mother is in remission by the way. I hope she stays that way. But let's be real, magic water didn't cure her.

blubloblu

pokertalk wrote: »

as i said in my eairler post my mother had cancer and came off her durgs course and went for this alternative medicine and she has not got the cancer anymore. now i dont know much about alternative medicines but cant see how a placebo can cure cancer. if it works then its medicine no????
its also n h s approved with is something

Do you know what homeopathy is? Read the wikipedia article.
Homeopathy consists of diluting tiny amounts of a substance in water to the point where you would need vast quantities of the "remedy" to be able to find even a single molecule of the original solute. How exactly does that cure cancer?

The NHS place it alongside faith healing. http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Homeopathy/Pages/Introduction.aspx

pokertalk

Cavehill Red wrote: »

When I was younger Lucozade was NHS approved. And not that long ago, you got Guinness from the blood transfusion board when you donated.
There is strong opposition from actual medics to morons in NHS admin approving nonsense like this. It's notable that they no longer approve training programmes in it for medics. They'll stop funding this bullcrap soon enough, especially with the cuts Britain is undergoing.
I'm glad your mother is in remission by the way. I hope she stays that way. But let's be real, magic water didn't cure her.

i know where your coming from but what did cure her???
ps will they except a medical card in the shop next time im thristy

Owen

Whispered wrote: »

Can we please call it complementary medicine. It should never be used as an alternative.

Honestly? Thread win as far as I'm concerned.

People will always want to believe utter made up baloney as opposed to medicine in the hopes that it'll cure what 'science doesn't understand'. As long as people view it as complimentary, I've no issue with that. Use the real medicine first, and add on the idealogical stuff like Homeopathy, Reiki, etc afterwards. The real danger is that people see it as a complete alternative to proven, documented, and trusted medicine.

It's like Daragh O' Briain said - people like to believe the myths, someone's Aunt had a headache, they rubbed a cat off their head, and the headache went away. Some people are disposed to believe that instead of taking something like Anadin instead - they want the urban myth to be true, they want some misunderstood mysticism to be true instead.

So, fine. If you want that, belt away with it if it's your own health. But if it's your children, your spouse, or your pets, don't impose your half thought out beliefs on them - allow them the benefit of scientifically researched medicinal advice, and they tack on the other 'solutions' out there. Proper medicine first, secondary medicine after.

blubloblu

pokertalk wrote: »

i know where your coming from but what did cure her???
ps will they except a medical card in the shop next time im thristy

You haven't shared enough details about her case, but maybe the drugs did their job and she needed time to rest and recover. People do beat cancer, and do so without any complementary "medicine". There is nothing to show that the remedy had anything to do with her recovery. Correlation does not imply causation.

pokertalk

blubloblu wrote: »

You haven't shared enough details about her case, but maybe the drugs did their job and she needed time to rest and recover. People do beat cancer, and do so without any complementary "medicine". There is nothing to show that the remedy had anything to do with her recovery. Correlation does not imply causation.

does not disprove either

Owen

I'm sure it doesn't Pokertalk, and fair play to her for recovering. The only thing is that my Brother in Law's Brother is a Professor in Microbiology in one of the Universities here specifically studying how Cancer propogates and methods to arrest that.

I haven't spoken to the guy, but I've read as much of his research as I've been able to understand (Not all of it, but a fair bit of it) - and it's reasonable to say that if she is 100% cured, that drinking water wasn't the cause of it.

Homeopathy is currently NHS funded because they're terrified to cut funding to alternative health in case someone complains on the grounds of balance. Kinda like if 2 people go for a job, a Caucasian with dozens of qualifications, and an African American with none - if they hire the Caucasian, they're could be branded as racist even though they may be well intentioned. Same with Homeopathy. There's absolutely no proof of it's benefits other than hearsay. If you look into it with even the most basic and childish of scientific minds, you'd see there's no way in hell it could possibly work - but for fear of upsetting it's believers, the NHS is effectively blackmailed into continuing to fund it for the interim.

johnthemull

It works like a good nights sleep
or a day on the beach in the sun
or a night in your favorite restaurant
or a fresh morning looking at the sea on the hill
put that into a pill
thats how it works

pokertalk

johnthemull wrote: »

It works like a good nights sleep
or a day on the beach in the sun
or a night in your favorite restaurant
or a fresh morning looking at the sea on the hill
put that into a pill
thats how it works

the sun is used or should i say its properties to cure ilness so maybe another element like water could too. aint water the cure fordeath because without we cant live;)............deep:o

pokertalk

blubloblu wrote: »

Do you know what homeopathy is? Read the wikipedia article.
Homeopathy consists of diluting tiny amounts of a substance in water to the point where you would need vast quantities of the "remedy" to be able to find even a single molecule of the original solute. How exactly does that cure cancer?

The NHS place it alongside faith healing. http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Homeopathy/Pages/Introduction.aspx

no i dont know much juat that my mother used it when she had cancer
what exactly is it that is diluted. plus not to be smart here but wikipedia has as much false info in it as it does true. im not saying i believe im just open minded[no stupid] just open minded.

fourcats

Thanks for that. He has already been checked for infections etc, he just gets over excited! Have also researched at great length methods of 1. how to detect the exact spot that has been sprayed when it is not obviously visable and 2. the problem of getting rid of the smell without repeated washing(which is not always possible). The only small reprieve is that a neutered tom's pee doesnt seem to linger quite as long as an un-nutered one.
Rosemarie

Whispered

I don't understand this post TBH.
This:

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Honestly? Thread win as far as I'm concerned..

seems sarcastic.

Where as this:

PaintDoctor wrote: »

As long as people view it as complimentary, I've no issue with that. Use the real medicine first......The real danger is that people see it as a complete alternative to proven, documented, and trusted medicine.

is saying the exact same thing.

Shenshen

pokertalk wrote: »

no i dont know much juat that my mother used it when she had cancer
what exactly is it that is diluted. plus not to be smart here but wikipedia has as much false info in it as it does true. im not saying i believe im just open minded[no stupid] just open minded.

The substances that get diluted are substances that, taken in a regular dosis, would cause the same symptoms that the patient is displaying.
So many of the substances used are highly poisonous, but since they get diluted down so drastically, you don't really need to worry about it.

The philosophy is that is arsenic will cause you to loose your hair, watered down arsenic will re-grow it, basically.

Rigsby

johnthemull wrote: »

It works like a good nights sleep
or a day on the beach in the sun
or a night in your favorite restaurant
or a fresh morning looking at the sea on the hill
put that into a pill
thats how it works

Sounds good to me so.

DeVore

Every night I go to sleep and every morning the sun comes up. I mean EVERY morning. Clearly my sleep is causing the sun to come up!!

Additionally since as the worlds climate has warmed over the last century, inversely opera attendance has droped.

Maths is a very non intuitive subject!!

DeV.
Ps, why doesn't water store the memory of the poo it's had in it?? Where is a small molecule like h2o storing the memory of much bigger molecules? Why do they have to bash it off a bed of horsehair (true fact)?

Owen

Whispered wrote: »

I don't understand this post TBH.

No sarcasm intended. By saying 'thread win' - I was saying that your post is probably the one people should take note of, and that I thought it was the best post in the thread.

Whispered

Sorry!!

If I disagree with someone IRL I often say "honestly??!?" or "realy?!??!" in a disdainful way while rolling my eyes. :pac:

kylith

pokertalk wrote: »

as i said in my eairler post my mother had cancer and came off her durgs course and went for this alternative medicine and she has not got the cancer anymore. now i dont know much about alternative medicines but cant see how a placebo can cure cancer. if it works then its medicine no????

Cancer sometimes just goes away, regardless of what medication is or is not being taken. It's called spontaneous remission.

pokertalk

kylith wrote: »

Cancer sometimes just goes away, regardless of what medication is or is not being taken. It's called spontaneous remission.

totally understand that but it still does not disprove

pokertalk

DeVore wrote: »

Every night I go to sleep and every morning the sun comes up. I mean EVERY morning. Clearly my sleep is causing the sun to come up!!

Additionally since as the worlds climate has warmed over the last century, inversely opera attendance has droped.

Maths is a very non intuitive subject!!

DeV.
Ps, why doesn't water store the memory of the poo it's had in it?? Where is a small molecule like h2o storing the memory of much bigger molecules? Why do they have to bash it off a bed of horsehair (true fact)?

wtf . bash what of a bed of horsehair