Reasonable Laptop Lifespan?

jimmyendless

Hi All,

I'm thinking this is a long shot but my macbook logic board died after 3 1/2 years. I paid €1063 at the time. One year warranty on it of course. I have been reading about original PS3 owners getting refunds outside of warranties and wondering does it apply to me? I rang them up when it happened and they stated that it was outside the warranty and that I need to take it to a authorised dealer for a repair at my own cost and I accepted that it was my problem.

So is 3 1/2 years a reasonable lifespan for a laptop of that value?

lazlo

I wouldnt bank on it. Those macbooks are notorious for having their logic boards fail, as was the case with the ibooks before them.

Theres no harm in having a stab but I wouldn't get your hopes up.



What kind of problem are you having? Theres a few DIY fixes that might extend its lifespan somewhat

jimmyendless

Its completely dead, no charging, no sign of life. I reset something to do with the ram, did nothing, and its not the battery or magsafe adapter. The fact that you say Macbooks are notorious for this would go in my favour, as it is a design fault of macbooks in the same way people with PS3s were getting refunds on dud blu-ray drives.

Capt'n Midnight

google for class action on your model, if nothing found then you are out of luck

it may be beyond economic repair
check ebay for how much it would cost to replace with the same model

lazlo

They didn't help me with my G4 iBook but your luck may be better. Your prob sounds similar to the one I encountered. If you apply loads of pressure to the area to the left of the trackpad when booting up you might have some joy.

Check this out

http://coreyarnold.org/ibook/

I opened the ibook and wedged 3 credit cards in behind the plate and the motherboard it was a tight job closing the book up again but it got it running again and at least made it more portable than the clamp fix

jimmyendless

lazlo wrote: »

They didn't help me with my G4 iBook but your luck may be better. Your prob sounds similar to the one I encountered. If you apply loads of pressure to the area to the left of the trackpad when booting up you might have some joy.

Check this out

http://coreyarnold.org/ibook/

I opened the ibook and wedged 3 credit cards in behind the plate and the motherboard it was a tight job closing the book up again but it got it running again and at least made it more portable than the clamp fix

Ha, that looks like a great cheap fix but mines a Macbook so probably not the same problem.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/06/10/12/apple_macbook_owners_organizing_class_action_lawsuit.html

and there was a class action lawsuit about the logic boards.

lazlo

I wouldnt write it off. GL with it anyway mate

slimjimmc

I would not consider 3 & 1/2 years as a reasonable lifetime for any laptop, it should certainly last (i.e, work) a lot longer in my opinion and in my experience. After 3-4 years it won't be up to to date or may not be compatible with the newest software but i.m.o. it is reasonable to expect it to still work. Consumer law works on the basis of what is reasonably expected lifetime if used as intended. Widespread issues with a particular model will just help prove that the product does not meet reasonable standards.

If I were you I would contest it being your own problem even though you have accepted that so far. Contact the shop you bought it from (your contract is with them so you have no claim against anyone else) and if they don't offer reasonable redress you can take it to the Small Claims Court. It's worth spending the €15 fee if it saves you the cost of a new board or laptop.

subway

ive said it on here before, it can easily be argued that the expected lifespan of a machine is what a manufacturer will guarantee it for (whehter you take the guarantee or not)

phone store, speak to supervisor, follow that up with a registred letter then off you go to SCC.

the fact that the shop wont know your rightsdoesnt afect you

jimmyendless

I bought it online directly from Apple so I'll get in contact with them again tomorrow and see where it goes. Thanks folks

Del2005

subway wrote: »

ive said it on here before, it can easily be argued that the expected lifespan of a machine is what a manufacturer will guarantee it for (whehter you take the guarantee or not)

So you think a fridge or TV should only last 1 year?

Guarantees are in addition to your rights, not your rights. Manufactures want people to think that once 1 year is up you've no come back but the EU says 2 years minimum and our law is up to 7 years.

subway

youve taken me up completly the wrong way

whiterebel

Del2005 wrote: »

So you think a fridge or TV should only last 1 year?

Guarantees are in addition to your rights, not your rights. Manufactures want people to think that once 1 year is up you've no come back but the EU says 2 years minimum and our law is up to 7 years.

EU Law never enacted in this country. There is a 6year limit to bring a case where there is deemed to be an underlying fault with the product.


@Subway - I took it the way del2005 read it too.....

Del2005

subway wrote: »

youve taken me up completly the wrong way

How?

slimjimmc

I think he means the manufacturer has confidence that the product will last a certain time and they adjust their warranty accordingly, and after this time they expect to get increasing numbers of defects. A shop may therefore argue that this is the expected lifetime of the product, their belief backed up by the manufacturer's reluctance to provide a longer warranty.

Thankfully the law considers a lot more factors including what an ordinary person would expect a reasonable lifetime to be.

Jev/N

If it's the NVIDIA graphics that went, they have an extended 3 or 4 year warranty on certain issues

ssmith6287

Cant believe people dont take out an extended warranty with laptops. I used to be a salesman and the amount of cases of people coming in with faults with extended warranty cover and the job was fixed within a week or 2 usually with a cost of 3-400€ to the extended warranty company. Others would come in without it and theres literally nothing you can do for them. You can see if its a software problem but if its hardware then it involves opening up the casing, most retailers will not allow staff to do this regardless of how competent the person is

Capt'n Midnight

ssmith6287 wrote: »

Cant believe people dont take out an extended warranty with laptops. I used to be a salesman and the amount of cases of people coming in with faults with extended warranty cover and the job was fixed within a week or 2 usually with a cost of 3-400€ to the extended warranty company. Others would come in without it and theres literally nothing you can do for them. You can see if its a software problem but if its hardware then it involves opening up the casing, most retailers will not allow staff to do this regardless of how competent the person is

For a low end laptop the cost of a 3 year extended warranty can be up to 1/3rd the cost of the laptop and it only covers 2 years since the first year is already covered.

this either means that they are expecting 1 in 6 laptops to fail each year or that they are making huge profits on the warranty

ssmith6287

I used to work in Harvey Norman, €99 for a 2 year extended warranty (3 years altogether) on a 5-700€ laptop, Would always allow the customer to haggle too so would generally give an anti virus or sumting for maybe a 3rd of the price.

Not a very high margin product, wouldn't do much for my pocket (then again nothing in computers does) but I personally believe in it which always helped in explaining benefits to a customer. Currys/PC world/Dixons charging €150 for a year extended on a €400 machine is a rip off.

I wouldnt buy anything over €200 without an extended warranty.

Laptops are notoriously unreliable, So many moving parts crammed into a tiny space, massive amount of heat generated.

Its not a fault but people are ignorant. They presume that because you could leave a desktop running for months on end you can do the same with a laptop.

kippy

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

For a low end laptop the cost of a 3 year extended warranty can be up to 1/3rd the cost of the laptop and it only covers 2 years since the first year is already covered.

this either means that they are expecting 1 in 6 laptops to fail each year or that they are making huge profits on the warranty

Totally agree with this.

I've seen that in general and in my experience, components in laptops or desktops for that matter, either fail in the first year or after third year. I have no links/data to back this up only my own experience (in IT for 10 years, worked with thousands of different types of computer)
As such I usually advise people not to take out a three year warrenty UNLESS,
the laptop cost over a certain amount (usually a €1000 euro) OR they use their PC as a source of income for themselves and could not do without it for an extended amount of time (that being said, most 3 year warrenties will still not give you a timeframe on how long it will take to fix the laptop, thats a seperate warrenty altogether). Obviously, if someone would like that piece of mind I let them off, however know its generally a massive waste of money for a service they think they will get but ends up being far lower than the service they had expected when the paid for the warrenty.
The most common component I have seen go in both laptops and desktops are harddrives, which are usualy a relatively easy fix hardware wise (but a pain in the hole if you've no backups) - and even if you had a warrenty your data is not covered, it is up to you to ensure it is backed up.

Even if the OP had a 3 year warrenty their machine would not have been covered.

I suppose what one person deems a "reasonable lifespan" another would deem excessive.
I've seen laptops last 10-12 years in some cases (and longer) but obviously their usefulness diminishes after that.
If I paid 500 euro for a laptop which was treated well and with moderate use I would expect 5-6 year lifespan.

One of the big issues with laptops is overheating, people use them on couches, on their beds and the airvents get blocked causing large heat build up. Over time this will significently reduce the lifespan of the components and as such cause hardware issues that are not so cheap/straightforward to fix. That and the fact that laptops can tend to get treated a bit harsher than desktops, knocked around the place (over time causing issues with the HDD depending on the amount and severity of the knocks).

As such it is pretty difficult for manufactures to stand by their machines unless they get more money for the risks they take on.

rubadub

ssmith6287 wrote: »

Laptops are notoriously unreliable, So many moving parts crammed into a tiny space, massive amount of heat generated.

Its not a fault but people are ignorant. They presume that because you could leave a desktop running for months on end you can do the same with a laptop.

And they can get drops, which people might choose to forget about if it works right after. Most of the ones I had had to fix had drops, one mates kids are always dropping it, my own dropped out of a bag with a dodgy zip.

If ipods are anything to go then IMO apple like built in obsolescence too.

Capt'n Midnight

kippy wrote: »

Totally agree with this.

I've seen that in general and in my experience, components in laptops or desktops for that matter, either fail in the first year or after third year.

It's the bathub curve

in the old days there were burn-in tests on components, in theory components are more reliable now, but you still enough DOA's that most admins would prefer to have a server running flat out for a while before it goes live.

for laptops, physical damage is the big danger, liquid spills, drops, bending of hinges by holding it by the screen , cracked screens

yes modern hard drives are supposed to park them selves if they sense they are in free fall, but it takes about as long as a fall from 40cm and even when parked they aren't rated to take all impacts ( IIRC 1mm deflection after a 1.5m fall might do it) so that doesn't solve the problem , you still need to treat laptops like they are eggs that also have a thin glass screen (they do )

most laptops are designed to take road transport and only be used in rail transport - to give you an idea of the sort of knocks they aren't designed to take

ssmith6287

15 months is where ive seen alot of the small problems e.g screen bulbs going, mouse failure, keyboard failure, hdd failure

Im not a salesman but i have worked with laptops for a few years, wherever u buy your laptop extend the warranty, argue for a lower price if need be, but if your cpu or motherboard fail then its worth every cent you pay

kippy

ssmith6287 wrote: »

15 months is where ive seen alot of the small problems e.g screen bulbs going, mouse failure, keyboard failure, hdd failure

Im not a salesman but i have worked with laptops for a few years, wherever u buy your laptop extend the warranty, argue for a lower price if need be, but if your cpu or motherboard fail then its worth every cent you pay

I disagree as you can see from above, but each to their own.

ssmith6287

yeah exactly,

I refuse to buy health insurance

Capt'n Midnight

ssmith6287 wrote: »

yeah exactly,

I refuse to buy health insurance

you've never paid PRSI ?

Currys PC World: Declan

ssmith6287 wrote: »

I used to work in Harvey Norman, €99 for a 2 year extended warranty (3 years altogether) on a 5-700€ laptop, Would always allow the customer to haggle too so would generally give an anti virus or sumting for maybe a 3rd of the price.

Not a very high margin product, wouldn't do much for my pocket (then again nothing in computers does) but I personally believe in it which always helped in explaining benefits to a customer. Currys/PC world/Dixons charging €150 for a year extended on a €400 machine is a rip off.

I wouldnt buy anything over €200 without an extended warranty.

Laptops are notoriously unreliable, So many moving parts crammed into a tiny space, massive amount of heat generated.

Its not a fault but people are ignorant. They presume that because you could leave a desktop running for months on end you can do the same with a laptop.

Sorry, I'm not going to let this comment on our warranty product pass . There is a quite substantial difference between the warranty product that we sell and that which is sold by others. What we sell is Coverplan, which is not an extended manufacturers guarantee. It covers anything that stops a piece of kit from working, be it a manufacuring fault or absolutely anything else. The vast majority of the 30,000 laptops we fix do not have manufacturing faults, the problems are caused by use, surge, virus, products being dropped, liquid damage , theft and a whole lot more. Coverplan is a very different product from an extended manufacturer's guarantee and it costs more. It's chalk and cheese and not a rip off by any means

kippy

Currys: Declan wrote: »

Sorry, I'm not going to let this comment on our warranty product pass . There is a quite substantial difference between the warranty product that we sell and that which is sold by others. What we sell is Coverplan, which is not an extended manufacturers guarantee. It covers anything that stops a piece of kit from working, be it a manufacuring fault or absolutely anything else. The vast majority of the 30,000 laptops we fix do not have manufacturing faults, the problems are caused by use, surge, virus, products being dropped, liquid damage , theft and a whole lot more. Coverplan is a very different product from an extended manufacturer's guarantee and it costs more. It's chalk and cheese and not a rip off by any means

Hi Declan,
I'm not fully aware of the terms and conditions associated with coverplan (or indeed the cost). My comments were in relation to extended manufacturers warranty.
I do also believe however that these Coverplan type policies DO NOT provide the customer with a "replacement laptop" during the time that their own laptop is getting fixed. That is ultimately the main issue many people have when they pay fairly significant money for these type of products without being fully aware what the terms of this cover are.

Currys PC World: Declan

Thanks for the reply. However, Coverplan is not an extended manufacturer's warranty. We haven't sold one of those for years. It's a full service product that protects against a wide variety of faults from whatever source, and does this for thousands of customers per year. You're correct that it does not provide a replacement product. A worthwhile and valuable idea and one we may adopt but we don't find it's a critical issue to customers. They just want their kit back in full working order.

wingnut

Can't beat Dell's complete care... we have hundreds of laptops onsite, all covered for 5 years. If we have a problem we log the call and an engineer arrives next day with the parts. Covers ANYTHING that happens liquid damage, thrown down a stairs etc. Very useful in a school!

ssmith6287

Currys: Declan wrote: »

Sorry, I'm not going to let this comment on our warranty product pass . There is a quite substantial difference between the warranty product that we sell and that which is sold by others. What we sell is Coverplan, which is not an extended manufacturers guarantee. It covers anything that stops a piece of kit from working, be it a manufacuring fault or absolutely anything else. The vast majority of the 30,000 laptops we fix do not have manufacturing faults, the problems are caused by use, surge, virus, products being dropped, liquid damage , theft and a whole lot more. Coverplan is a very different product from an extended manufacturer's guarantee and it costs more. It's chalk and cheese and not a rip off by any means

Ok well thats fair enough, I wouldnt shop in currys/ pc world, thats just personal choice. when i was selling laptops customers would always say that the laptop with extended warranty is x amount below in currys so if the staff in d place are telling customers that its extended warramty then you can see why i felt it was way over priced, i couldn't believe the figgers customers were showing me

looksee

The problem with Currys/PC World is that they use Techguys, who have to be some of the most useless, incompetent technicians going. We had a laptop with an extended warranty (though it was still inside the one year warranty when it started) going to and from Techguys - away for 4 to 6 weeks at a time. Never any question that the laptop might be complete dud, 'we can only send it off to England'. Eventually by making a persistant, loud fuss at the service desk we got a credit note.

Elessar

The ignorance of the law on this thread is shocking :eek:

Excluding accidental damage cover, extended warranties are a complete waste of money; a rip off of unbelievable greed by retailers who prey on people's ignorance of their rights.

I would never purchase an extended "warranty" on anything. I'd rather throw money down the toilet.

You are already covered under the SOGA 1980!! If the retailer won't listen (like 99.9% of them, also ignorant of the law), take them to court! A €15 process designed to be a simple and painless as possible for the consumer.

OP, I would chance the Small Claims Court route. You have only €15 to lose. There was a thread on the Mac forum last year with a macbook user in a similar position to you. His macbook failed outside warranty and Apple told him to stuff it. A registrar in the SCC told him he had a good case as it was reasonable to expect his €1400 laptop to last AT LEAST 5 years. Within a week of lodging the claim Apple repaired his laptop free of charge.

www.smallclaims.ie - it would be worth it to just give them a call and get their opinion on your case.

jimmyendless

I'm posting this from my repaired macbook. I had a small claims court date set for Oct 2nd where Apple and myself would have had our showdown but it never came to it.

My story isn't cut and dry though. When the macbook died over a year ago I went and bought another power supply. That made no difference so I presumed it was dead. Then I filed a claim through small claims and then apple wanted to inspect it, and they did and said it worked with there power adapter bizarrely. They replaced all the bezels at the front and the keyboard/trackpad so it looks like new. Don't really know how it worked out so well and it doesn't make much sense but hey I'm happy. They did it all free of charge.

kippy

jimmyendless wrote: »

I'm posting this from my repaired macbook. I had a small claims court date set for Oct 2nd where Apple and myself would have had our showdown but it never came to it.

My story isn't cut and dry though. When the macbook died over a year ago I went and bought another power supply. That made no difference so I presumed it was dead. Then I filed a claim through small claims and then apple wanted to inspect it, and they did and said it worked with there power adapter bizarrely. They replaced all the bezels at the front and the keyboard/trackpad so it looks like new. Don't really know how it worked out so well and it doesn't make much sense but hey I'm happy. They did it all free of charge.

Good to hear you at least got the machine sorted out.
Just as well you weren't in a rush though.

As an aside, what is the "Consumer protection watchdog" (What ever they are called now, I know there are a few areas that look after this) doing to ensure that consumers are aware of their rights in relation to this type of thing? Anyone know?
You would think this would be a pretty important thing to be aware of as a consumer in tight times (any times)........

foggy_lad

kippy wrote: »

Good to hear you at least got the machine sorted out.
Just as well you weren't in a rush though.

As an aside, what is the "Consumer protection watchdog" (What ever they are called now, I know there are a few areas that look after this) doing to ensure that consumers are aware of their rights in relation to this type of thing? Anyone know?
You would think this would be a pretty important thing to be aware of as a consumer in tight times (any times)........

Really the consumer protection people can only do so much in these tight times because they are losing funding as much as everyone else.

It is up to the consumer to find the information which is all freely available.

kippy

foggy_lad wrote: »

Really the consumer protection people can only do so much in these tight times because they are losing funding as much as everyone else.

It is up to the consumer to find the information which is all freely available.

emmmm,
Thats what the consumer protection people get paid to do - and there are a number of groups that are responsible for this I believe.
It is plain to see from this and other threads that the law is on the consumers side however the retailers do not want to play ball.
Is it acceptable that the poster on this thread took almost a year to get the issue sorted, at a fair bit of hassle to him and a fair bit of negativity from the supplier?

The information is out there, no doubt, but until some body that is responsible for consumer protection uses whatever clout they have been given to ensure that retailers play ball, the information, while useful, will still end up having the consumer jump through hoops.

EDIT:
This is a listing of all the groups that are responsible for consumer protection:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/consumer_protection_organisations.html

Surely the needless purchasing and indeed selling of warrenties is something the consumer should be more aware of?

foggy_lad

kippy wrote: »

emmmm,
Thats what the consumer protection people get paid to do - and there are a number of groups that are responsible for this I believe.
It is plain to see from this and other threads that the law is on the consumers side however the retailers do not want to play ball.
Is it acceptable that the poster on this thread took almost a year to get the issue sorted, at a fair bit of hassle to him and a fair bit of negativity from the supplier?

The information is out there, no doubt, but until some body that is responsible for consumer protection uses whatever clout they have been given to ensure that retailers play ball, the information, while useful, will still end up having the consumer jump through hoops.

EDIT:
This is a listing of all the groups that are responsible for consumer protection:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/consumer_protection_organisations.html

Surely the needless purchasing and indeed selling of warrenties is something the consumer should be more aware of?

The supplier/manufacturer has no obligations towards the consumer unless there is a valid warranty in place but most people are unaware that their statutory rights will most times provide greater protection than any manufacturers warranty or indeed most paid for warranties and insurance coverplans.

With all faulty consumer items the seller is legally obliged to offer redress in the form of repair replacement or refund and the consumer can reject any offer and request a different form but in the event of dispute they can ask the small claims courts to decide.

Most people can find out all they need to know with a little simple searching the internets and a few minutes light reading, the consumer agencies can only do so much and if people want a situation resolved they will have to get off their backsides and act, write that letter of complaint, turn up in the store, or simply keep a record of poor performance to prove you are not getting the service you are paying for etc etc etc

NewHillel

whiterebel wrote: »

EU Law never enacted in this country. There is a 6year limit to bring a case where there is deemed to be an underlying fault ..

According to the EU Report on the implementation of Directive 1999/44/EC , the Directive is transcribed into Irish Law in Statuary Instrument S.I. No. 11/2003.
(Plain English, it is now part of the Sales of Goods act.)

a

Tayla

I paid around £400 for my laptop 18 months ago and the hard drive is dying now so as it's out of warranty i'll have to buy a new harddrive, it's annoying yes but it's only around £30, it's especially annoying because the hard drive in my laptop are normally covered for 3 years but whatever arrangement Packard bell came to with them when they put the hard drives in their laptops doesn't cover us for 3 years.

I think a lot of people consider laptops these days to be disposable...because they cost more to repair than to buy a new one and to be honest I don't look after my laptop either, it's always on, I use it on the bed where it gets hot, I let the baby play with it so i'm pretty happy with the 18 months i've got out of it. (Not that i'm happy to throw away money in case i've given you that impression, I buy the cheapest phones etc. but I think with the amount of use this laptop has got that it was worth it)

I'm thinking of signing up with Permanent Tsbs plus package next year as I have to get a few new electrical items, for €10 a month you can get gadget cover on 2 items and then extended warranty on 6 new items plus other unrelated things such as travel insurance so it's a good deal for anyone with PTSB rather than taking out individual extended warranties.

Boggles

Tayla wrote: »

I paid around £400 for my laptop 18 months ago and the hard drive is dying now so as it's out of warranty i'll have to buy a new harddrive, it's annoying yes but it's only around £30, it's especially annoying because the hard drive in my laptop are normally covered for 3 years but whatever arrangement Packard bell came to with them when they put the hard drives in their laptops doesn't cover us for 3 years.

I think a lot of people consider laptops these days to be disposable...because they cost more to repair than to buy a new one and to be honest I don't look after my laptop either, it's always on, I use it on the bed where it gets hot, I let the baby play with it so i'm pretty happy with the 18 months i've got out of it. (Not that i'm happy to throw away money in case i've given you that impression, I buy the cheapest phones etc. but I think with the amount of use this laptop has got that it was worth it)

Laptops are not considered disposable items.

Do not leave an electrical item that can generate heat in excess of 100 degrees on all the time, especially don't leave it on something that blocks it's vents.

Tayla wrote: »

I'm thinking of signing up with Permanent Tsbs plus package next year as I have to get a few new electrical items, for €10 a month you can get gadget cover on 2 items and then extended warranty on 6 new items plus other unrelated things such as travel insurance so it's a good deal for anyone with PTSB rather than taking out individual extended warranties.

Or have more respect for the items you purchase, you have plenty of cover with your consumer rights if you do not mistreat what you buy.

Tayla

Boggles wrote: »

Laptops are not considered disposable items.

Many people do consider them to be disposable, I know many people who have had to replace theirs rather than pay for certain repairs.

Boggles wrote: »

Or have more respect for the items you purchase, you have plenty of cover with your consumer rights if you do not mistreat what you buy.

If i'm happy getting 18 months + more when I replace the harddrive out of a £400 laptop then it doesn't bother me, some people buy expensive phones, new ones every year...I don't, my Laptop is my only gadget, I don't have and yes it gets a lot of abuse but that's just the way I use it,

I specifically said in my last thread that I don't like to throw money away and I said that 1. because it's true and 2. to avoid comments like the one above. If all I got out of it was 18 months then that is approx £22 per month..I consider that good value.

If I paid €1000 for a laptop or paid €400 and used it for light use then yea I'd expect a few years out of it.

tallaghtoutlaws

Tayla wrote: »

I think a lot of people consider laptops these days to be disposable...because they cost more to repair than to buy a new one and to be honest I don't look after my laptop either, it's always on, I use it on the bed where it gets hot, I let the baby play with it so i'm pretty happy with the 18 months i've got out of it. (Not that i'm happy to throw away money in case i've given you that impression, I buy the cheapest phones etc. but I think with the amount of use this laptop has got that it was worth it)

One of the worst places to put a laptop on is a bed. I tell people this all the time but they dont listen. When you sit it on a bed 99% of the time you are blocking the vents. There is only so much heat the CPU and GPU can take before they lose performance or die. The vents are there for a reason.

Also if you are going to leave it on all day download software that allows for fan control. My laptop is on all day and I have software that allows me to control the fans so they keep the computer cool all day. But if I walk away from it and am not using anything in particular I close the lid and put it on standby.

If more people looked after their laptops there would be less problems with them.

Tayla

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

If more people looked after their laptops there would be less problems with them.

I agree with that completely, that's why I feel I got value for money out of my own laptop, because it took all that abuse and is still ok except for the dying hard drive.

If I took care of it then yes i'd expect it to last a lot longer!

I do know they're not supposed to be on beds and I used to have one of these which was absolutely brilliant but it got broken, I would definitely recommend.

My whole point was that there are plenty of people like me out there that don't look after their laptops (but then they complain when they break) whereas I take responsibilty for my carelessness and know that if it breaks it's my own fault.

Also when I meant it was on all day, I didn't mean 24 hours a day, it's closed and on standby a lot...