Training - Bodybuilding vs Strength Training

funkey_monkey

Hi,
I'm looking for some advice on my current training regime.
I am training with the aim of increasing lean mass - i.e. bodybuilding as opposed to power/strength training.
My diet is currently based on a Lean Gains approach whereby I fast from approx 10:00pm on the previous night until 12:30pm on the following day. I eat a smallish meal at 12:30 and then another small meal at 545pm. Final meal (dinner) is at roughly 9:30pm.
I think that I might be using an incorrect training technique for bodybuilding. Am I correct in thinking that how each rep is performed is different when your goal is increasing mass as opposed to increasing strength? I think that for mass gain (bodybuilding) that reps shoudl be performed slowly and in full control. This therefore would mean that the weight used will be a reduced amount than that used for strength lifting which is a more explosive movement. Is this correct?
My problem is that I am not seeing any progress with either my bulk or weight increases. Should I decrease my weight and concentrate on quality of reps?

Secondly, I am struggling with the rack squat. I can't feel any muscle burn with it. In fact what I 'feel' seems closer to imminent injury rather than burn. Do I lower this weight and carry on or is there another exercise I could replace this with?

Many thanks.
D.

SanoVitae

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Am I correct in thinking that how each rep is performed is different when your goal is increasing mass as opposed to increasing strength?
I think that for mass gain (bodybuilding) that reps shoudl be performed slowly and in full control. This therefore would mean that the weight used will be a reduced amount than that used for strength lifting which is a more explosive movement.

Whether you are training to build mass or strength, you should be in full control of the weight at all times. If you are training in power lifting on the other hand, you'll absolutely need to make the movements "explosive" simply because there is no other way to successfully lift your heaviest weights, e.g. a power clean.

funkey_monkey wrote: »

My problem is that I am not seeing any progress with either my bulk or weight increases. Should I decrease my weight and concentrate on quality of reps?

I would recommend you get a qualified trainer (even a PT) to show you how to do the lifts correctly. Usually it's best to back off the weight and concentrate on perfecting your technique to begin with. Once you do that, you can begin adding weight to the bar.

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Secondly, I am struggling with the rack squat. I can't feel any muscle burn with it. In fact what I 'feel' seems closer to imminent injury rather than burn. Do I lower this weight and carry on or is there another exercise I could replace this with?

I hope by rack squat you're not talking about the Smith Machine, right? Again I'd recommend you hire a trainer and get instruction of how to perform barbell squats, ideally out of a power rack.

Regardless, you're unlikely to ever feel a burn when doing squats. If you're doing them properly, nausea is a more common feeling!

Hope that helps,

Paul

funkey_monkey

Sorry, I meant rack pulls. I was instructed by a PT who said my form was fine, but it just doesn't feel right to me. I've watched countless videos on how to perform rack pulls on YouTube but it hasn't had any positive effect for me.

I think I know how to do the other lifts correctly, it is just a matter of whether I should be concentrating on smaller weight and more control, or going for weight.

When I perform the Rack Pulls I do it in a Squat Rack with the support pins at the lowest height - around my knee height. I am 63kg - and 5'6 so what is a reasonable weight for me to pull? Currently I can comfortably do 110kg/120kg. I've gone up to 140kg but it really was not comfortable and I think I was just forcing it rather than controlling the movement.

Is there any website or place which can give pointers on what is a reasonable weight for a given exercie based upon your personal stats? For example, I was told by someone that with reasonable training you should be able to bench bodyweight, Squat 1.5 x Bodyweight and Deadlift 2 x Bdoyweight. What about the other movements?

SanoVitae

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Is there any website or place which can give pointers on what is a reasonable weight for a given exercie based upon your personal stats? For example, I was told by someone that with reasonable training you should be able to bench bodyweight, Squat 1.5 x Bodyweight and Deadlift 2 x Bdoyweight. What about the other movements?

I'd be of the opinion that if you are getting stronger in squats, deadlifts and bench presses, you'll essentially get stronger in all the other exercises in your routine.

Stuart McRobert of Hardgainer/Brawn fame said that basically everyone is capable of a 300 pound bench press, a 400 pound squat and a 500 pound deadlift. All the other exercises he recommends tend to be supplemental exercises, aimed at making you stronger in these 3 core exercises.

Will Heffernan

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Hi,
I'm looking for some advice on my current training regime.
I am training with the aim of increasing lean mass - i.e. bodybuilding as opposed to power/strength training.
My diet is currently based on a Lean Gains approach whereby I fast from approx 10:00pm on the previous night until 12:30pm on the following day. I eat a smallish meal at 12:30 and then another small meal at 545pm. Final meal (dinner) is at roughly 9:30pm.
I think that I might be using an incorrect training technique for bodybuilding. Am I correct in thinking that how each rep is performed is different when your goal is increasing mass as opposed to increasing strength? I think that for mass gain (bodybuilding) that reps shoudl be performed slowly and in full control. This therefore would mean that the weight used will be a reduced amount than that used for strength lifting which is a more explosive movement. Is this correct?
My problem is that I am not seeing any progress with either my bulk or weight increases. Should I decrease my weight and concentrate on quality of reps?

Secondly, I am struggling with the rack squat. I can't feel any muscle burn with it. In fact what I 'feel' seems closer to imminent injury rather than burn. Do I lower this weight and carry on or is there another exercise I could replace this with?

Many thanks.
D.

1. You are trying to ride two horses with one ass. Dieting and adding mass do not go together....not without drugs or unless you are borderline obese. So you need to decide what you want more...a 6 pack...or adding some mass.

2. Yes, you are correct in thinking that you might be using an incorrect training technique for bodybuilding.

3. "Am I correct in thinking that how each rep is performed is different when your goal is increasing mass as opposed to increasing strength? I think that for mass gain (bodybuilding) that reps shoudl be performed slowly and in full control. This therefore would mean that the weight used will be a reduced amount than that used for strength lifting which is a more explosive movement. Is this correct?" No, you are not correct.

a) If your goal is to increase your mass...then you should be looking to increase your strength...the myth of the body builder who is weak as a kitten is just that...they are strong as hell doing 'what they do' it is just that the particular 'type' of strength that they are able to display is 'different.

b) If you can perform your rep 'slowly' then you are not training hard enough...exception to this point is when the eccentric portion of the rep is slow because you are trying not to get crushed squatting or give yourself a barbell heart massage while benching for example and the concentric phase is slow because it is heavy as hell. If you are doing 3 second eccentrics and 3 second concentrics with 15kg db's on your bicep curls you are deluded.

c) With regard to explosivity...it's the 'INTENT' that matters...whether you are doing fast dynamic effort work or heavy max effort work....the 'speed' is irrelevant...it's the explosive intent that matters.

4. "My problem is that I am not seeing any progress with either my bulk or weight increases. Should I decrease my weight and concentrate on quality of reps?"

You've raised several problems already in this post with your training...and from experience I am willing to bet that probably the biggest problems haven't even been mentioned here.

You need a good program...you need to be able to do it properly and apply yourself to it...and importantly you need to be able to implement a nutrition strategy that meets your training goals.

Good luck.

kevpants

Lean Gains is some internet sensation right?

I dunno much about it but I think a guy who weighs 63kg doing anything called "fasting" is nuts.

If you're that small so long as you eat and lift heavy things you'll improve.

I'm biased as a powerlifter but I always kind of let out a sigh when anyone starts with "I'm interested in bodybuilding rather than power or strength". This isn't because there's anything wrong with that, you're aspiring to something, this is good. It's just that the % of people who fail and lose faith in what they're doing is much higher with bodybuilding centric people than it is with strength centric people. The reasons for this form what I can see are:

• It's easier to meausure progress with strength in kgs than it is to monitor appearance in a mirror
• Strength trainees are often pleasantly suprised at how their body image is improving, bodybuilding trainees are often dissapointed that they aren't getting that strong.
• Elite strength seems more attainable than elite bodybuilding, some really strong guys look just like regular people. Top bodybuilders are so detached from beginners
• Bodybuilding trainees worry so much about fat loss. If you're focused on strength you won't be distracted by the constant monitoring of you waistline or BF%

On the rack pulls, for me these are a Max Effort exercise. If the weight doesn't take a good 4 or 5 seconds of you pulling before it moves out of the rack then it's a waste. Like I said I'm biased but I've seen in myself and others that strength and thickness comes from heavy pulls rather than multiple reps to failure type pulls.

Mr. Loverman

Getting bigger and stronger is simple. The fitness industry wants you to think it's complicated but it's not.

Eat lots of quality food. Try to base your meal around lots of protein rather than lots of carbs.

Lift heavy, about 3 - 6 reps.

Focus on compound lifts with a bit of extra work on the glamour muscles (biceps, triceps, etc.)

Make sure you get enough rest. I find if I work out twice per week I see better gains than three times per week.

Be consistent.

Be patient.

That's pretty much all there is to it.

SanoVitae

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Getting bigger and stronger is simple. The fitness industry wants you to think it's complicated but it's not.

I think the fitness industry would rather people think that its easy, quick and requires little to no work. The quick fix sell will always appeal to the masses.

I totally agree that people should be patient - it's often very hard for a beginner especially to stick with a program when every magazine out there is promoting a brand-new-super-duper-ultimate-6-weeks-to-a-perfect-body workout on a monthly basis.

Barry.Oglesby

Will Heffernan wrote: »

it's the explosive intent that matters.

True. This is why I was arrested for staring at Leinster house that day.

funkey_monkey

kevpants wrote: »

Lean Gains is some internet sensation right?

It was recommended to me by the PT who devised my routine. I still take the same no. of calories per day as perviously, just in a smaller window. I don't eat in morning - although I do take amino acids and BCAA's in order to preserve muscles.

On the rack pulls, for me these are a Max Effort exercise. If the weight doesn't take a good 4 or 5 seconds of you pulling before it moves out of the rack then it's a waste. Like I said I'm biased but I've seen in myself and others that strength and thickness comes from heavy pulls rather than multiple reps to failure type pulls.

Rack pulls are just not comfortable for me. The PT has watched me on a few occassions and said there is nothing wrong with my technique, but it just doesn't feel right. In fact one guy came up to me in the gym (big solid guy) and told me to stop as I'd hurt myself doing rack pulls.
So what do I do?

dinorebel

funkey_monkey wrote: »

It was recommended to me by the PT who devised my routine. I still take the same no. of calories per day as perviously, just in a smaller window. I don't eat in morning - although I do take amino acids and BCAA's in order to preserve muscles.




Rack pulls are just not comfortable for me. The PT has watched me on a few occassions and said there is nothing wrong with my technique, but it just doesn't feel right. In fact one guy came up to me in the gym (big solid guy) and told me to stop as I'd hurt myself doing rack pulls.
So what do I do?

Sack the pt and do stronglifts starting strength or pretty much anything apart from your current routine.

Lantus

Dear Mr Monkey,

Your problem is not excercise but nutrition.

Your eating too little! Building muscle requires a calorie surplus. To do that you need to eat 10-15% in excess of your daily requirements and train hard. Currently your starving yourself. Little wonder your not gaining mass.

review the stickies, eat more, eat clean, train hard. easy right?

Hanley

funkey_monkey wrote: »

In fact one guy came up to me in the gym (big solid guy) and told me to stop as I'd hurt myself doing rack pulls.
So what do I do?

Ignore him.

Tie your shoe laces the wrong way and you run the risk of injuring yourself.

Brian?

funkey_monkey wrote: »

It was recommended to me by the PT who devised my routine. I still take the same no. of calories per day as perviously, just in a smaller window. I don't eat in morning - although I do take amino acids and BCAA's in order to preserve muscles.

Rack pulls are just not comfortable for me. The PT has watched me on a few occassions and said there is nothing wrong with my technique, but it just doesn't feel right. In fact one guy came up to me in the gym (big solid guy) and told me to stop as I'd hurt myself doing rack pulls.
So what do I do?

You can choose who you want to listen to.

But you've got advice from:

1. Will Heffernan, one of the best S&C coaches in the county.
2. A PT who's telling you the best way to add muscle is to NOT EAT for half the day.
3. Some random big guy in the gym, who could be talking out of his hole.
4. Kev et al, who replied on here and who essentially agree with Will.

Choose wisely. I know who I would listen to.

Transform

man how man times have you got to be told!

You need to eat more and get stronger as at your current weight and height i would say you are under weight