USI Student March in Dublin

PomBear

So USI are organising a march in Dublin on November 3rd.

The reasons for the march to protest the possible increase in Registration fees
The shambles that in issuing the grants
and the Student Assistance Funds being cut.

Huge numbers are expected at this march, if anyone was in college to remember the FEE days, they'll know how big that was.

Just to let ye know SU will be organising a bus to Dublin, which will be €4 return and you get a free t-shirt (never mind the misspelling of the article;))

Also there will be a meeting Thursday (Tomorrow) @ 6 in AC204 to discussing NUIG role the march and the fight against fees.

Facebook event link to the meeting tomorrow:http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=156770377696176&index=1

Facebook event link for the march itself:http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=124538357601069

challengemaster

Apparently the article says we get 'come food'

:pac:

DoireNod

4 squid for a day out in Dublin and a free t-shirt to boot? Sounds great.
Hope to make it to the meeting, but isn't AC 204 a bit small?

PomBear

challengemaster wrote: »

Apparently the article says we get 'come food'

:pac:

with free t-Sh1t :pac:

PomBear

DoireNod wrote: »

4 squid for a day out in Dublin and a free t-shirt to boot? Sounds great.
Hope to make it to the meeting, but isn't AC 204 a bit small?

Unsure, i'd imagine it'll be a brainstorming session for what coming, the campaigns really gathering momentum, should be something really good to get involved in

Bottle_of_Smoke

I think it would be better to just protest against the shambles that is the issuing of grants and making the point grants need to stay

People realise these days that free fees mostly benefit the middle class.

RDM_83 again

Whats your definition of middle class though Bottle_of_smoke

Take a working couple on pretty decent money say 40,000 each before tax, they come out with maybe 60k, if they have two kids of similar age going to university at the same time they would have to put themselves or their children into pretty bad debt, times 2 x 5900 =11800 on fees probably, 2 x 2520 = 5040 on accommodation(minimum thats working on 60per week for 42 weeks,rules out most halls and lot of Dublin, even sharing (small!) rooms in the mid 2000's that was as low as I got), 2 * 3780= 7560 spending money (at 90 a week remembering that busses home and utilities probably have to be covered from that).

So thats a minimum of 24400 to put their two kids through college and since a lot of degrees are 4 years it highly likely two children will be there simultaneously

RDM_83 again

Sorry thats per year

MissMoppet

Sounds great and I really would love to go but I've 2 tutorials.

The S.U said something about getting classes postponed or something.

Anyone any inside knowledge?

Bottle_of_Smoke

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Whats your definition of middle class though Bottle_of_smoke

Take a working couple on pretty decent money say 40,000 each before tax, they come out with maybe 60k, if they have two kids of similar age going to university at the same time they would have to put themselves or their children into pretty bad debt, times 2 x 5900 =11800 on fees probably, 2 x 2520 = 5040 on accommodation(minimum thats working on 60per week for 42 weeks,rules out most halls and lot of Dublin, even sharing (small!) rooms in the mid 2000's that was as low as I got), 2 * 3780= 7560 spending money (at 90 a week remembering that busses home and utilities probably have to be covered from that).

So thats a minimum of 24400 to put their two kids through college and since a lot of degrees are 4 years it highly likely two children will be there simultaneously

I think parents should be taken out of the equation altogether. The fees should be paid by the students themselves in the form of a student loan repayable on commencing employment post graduation. Maintennance loans should also apply this way.

Obviously you'd only have to make repayments when your earnings were > than x amount. Also if you're out of work or travelling etc your repayments are put on hold.

RDM_83 again

I agree that the inclusion of parents is not ideal at all
Your proposing the UK student loans system then but there is a number of flaws to it, first if its not linked to parental income at all every student would have to eligible for a maximum standard loan in effect this is still a subsidy for richer people as the only way these loans work is if they are inflation linked and interest free therefore its is always in your interest to take out the maximum loan and leave it in a high interest saving account (this does occur knew people that did so but as the loan was assessed they were not able to take out a massive amount), secondly the UK system only works if you are earning money within the UK tax net (this is a fact from personal experience) this is not so much of an issue within the UK but with Ireland returning to the days of mass emigration (especially for young graduates) perhaps half of loans would be impossible to reclaim.
Also there is the perception of going into debt, as it is its very hard to get employment directly from most degrees, to obtain most decent positions these days requires a masters (if you are lacking in maybe 2 years relevant experience) and thats even more debt.

Bottle_of_Smoke

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I agree that the inclusion of parents is not ideal at all
Your proposing the UK student loans system then but there is a number of flaws to it, first if its not linked to parental income at all every student would have to eligible for a maximum standard loan in effect this is still a subsidy for richer people as the only way these loans work is if they are inflation linked and interest free therefore its is always in your interest to take out the maximum loan and leave it in a high interest saving account (this does occur knew people that did so but as the loan was assessed they were not able to take out a massive amount)

That's interesting about the savings account. I guess there should be stipulations on what you use the loan for and people caught out using the loan for interest should be punished.

secondly the UK system only works if you are earning money within the UK tax net (this is a fact from personal experience) this is not so much of an issue within the UK but with Ireland returning to the days of mass emigration (especially for young graduates) perhaps half of loans would be impossible to reclaim.

This is a risk but the way I see it we're gettin no money for degree costs now so even if half the people repaid hte loans it would be worthwhile. Also think we could set up an agreement with the British government about monitoring people who owe money on loans and then debiting it internationally, as a lot of Irish peopel emigrate to Britain and many from the North have in the past and will in the future emigrate to the republic

Also there is the perception of going into debt, as it is its very hard to get employment directly from most degrees, to obtain most decent positions these days requires a masters (if you are lacking in maybe 2 years relevant experience) and thats even more debt.

Well what I think is different about it is it does not hang over you like a bank loan - you have automatic rights about it going on hold if you say want to travel, once you're not earning you don't make repayments so it isn't something you have to worry about if you lose your job.

As for needing a masters I would also argue you only make repayments if you're earning above 24K per annum

challengemaster

MissMoppet wrote: »

Sounds great and I really would love to go but I've 2 tutorials.

The S.U said something about getting classes postponed or something.

Anyone any inside knowledge?

As far as I'm aware, the college is backing the SU on this one, so anything important shouldn't actually be held on the day. If you email the course director asking, see what they say?

brianthebard

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Whats your definition of middle class though Bottle_of_smoke

Take a working couple on pretty decent money say 40,000 each before tax, they come out with maybe 60k, if they have two kids of similar age going to university at the same time they would have to put themselves or their children into pretty bad debt, times 2 x 5900 =11800 on fees probably, 2 x 2520 = 5040 on accommodation(minimum thats working on 60per week for 42 weeks,rules out most halls and lot of Dublin, even sharing (small!) rooms in the mid 2000's that was as low as I got), 2 * 3780= 7560 spending money (at 90 a week remembering that busses home and utilities probably have to be covered from that).

So thats a minimum of 24400 to put their two kids through college and since a lot of degrees are 4 years it highly likely two children will be there simultaneously

Are you trying to say that a family income of 60k isn't middle class? And what students are in accommodation for 42 weeks, apart from postgrads?

RDM_83 again

Well since the college calender states teaching starts on the 7th of september and examinations finish on the 20th of may, I would say most people considering you don't really want to be moving on the week you start courses so 42 weeks is slightly too long, maybe 40 then?
http://www.nuigalway.ie/academic_dates/academic_term_dates.html

I would consider that income to be middle class my point is that the definition of middle class is extremely wide recently read ( a terrible) article about the decline of the middle class in the Uk Guardian and one of the couples interviewed both held jobs in 70-90k sterling bracket. my point is that something that would seem very affordable may not be the case with multiple children.

brianthebard

Yes but allowances are made on a case by case basis. Plus a family can have the child benefit extended for up to three years while a child is in college. So I don't think your example is especially ruinous for the 60k family tbh.

TheCosmicFrog

Haha, 't-sh1t' and 'come food'.

I'd love to go, but Wednesday's a full day with several labs for me

challengemaster

TheCosmicFrog wrote: »

Haha, 't-sh1t' and 'come food'.

I'd love to go, but Wednesday's a full day with several labs for me

What was said at the class rep training was something like that NUIG is backing the SU and there wont be assesments/etc on the day. I'd say if you email a few people you'd be able to go.

TheCosmicFrog

challengemaster wrote: »

What was said at the class rep training was something like that NUIG is backing the SU and there wont be assesments/etc on the day. I'd say if you email a few people you'd be able to go.

Really? Oh cool, I might look into it so!

ValJester

I'm ambivalent as to whether or not to do this. I was a marshall on the 2009 march, and whilst it got decent numbers initially, the numbers got thinner and thinner as the march went on, with many students taking the subsidised lift to Dublin and going walkabout once we arrived.

Were that kind of attitude to prevail this time around, students would get the treatment they deserved.

PomBear

ValJester wrote: »

I'm ambivalent as to whether or not to do this. I was a marshall on the 2009 march, and whilst it got decent numbers initially, the numbers got thinner and thinner as the march went on, with many students taking the subsidised lift to Dublin and going walkabout once we arrived.

Were that kind of attitude to prevail this time around, students would get the treatment they deserved.

Campaigns usually do unfortunately but sure if many like you don't bother to make that stand then what chance do the people that do march have? The chance of the campaign being successful is slim anyways. It's all about making that stand. Not being part of the campaign and not showing some opposition to these fees would be like lying down and accepting it so to speak.

Also a Galway centered campaign will probably come from this but only if the march has good numbers, there was 20,000 last time!

Ficheall

But surely if Batt O'Keefe suggests that fighting the increase is offensive to women and homo/transphobic the SU will just capitulate?

PomBear

Ficheall wrote: »

But surely if Batt O'Keefe suggests that fighting the increase is offensive to women and homo/transphobic the SU will just capitulate?

The SU aren't organising the march, USI are and groups like FEE are joining in. Also, wtf?

ValJester

PomBear wrote: »

Not being part of the campaign and not showing some opposition to these fees would be like lying down and accepting it so to speak.

The problem is that Irish students are an apathetic bunch, and to be honest don't do a lot to win sympathy to their cause by laying waste to Galway during RAG week and making Eyre Square a no-go area for the general public three nights a week. I had the misfortune to live in Corrib Village in my first year of university, and to be honest even I thought some sort of wake-up call was needed for those people. If an anti-fees movement is to succeed the following is needed.
1.-Far greater student involvement in the SU
2.-A complete change of attitude and more gratitude for what they have
3.-A genuinely articulate, unified anti-fees leadership which is able to articulate itself and make valid arguments as to why fees should not be introduced, which was the major failing of the 2009 campaign, with the fighting amongst various factions making the protest itself feel like token resistance.

challengemaster

So because students have fun every now and again, they dont appreciate things? Such bullshít.

Ficheall

I think it's the other way around - ie. because students don't appreciate things they "have fun every now and again"/act like a bunch of tossers.

challengemaster

tbh RAG week hasn't gotten any worse over the years, and there's nothing to prove that it has changed with free fees. If anything, any small alteration could be accounted for by the massive increase in students attending.

Also, it's not just NUIG. GMIT also have RAG week (and imo, tend to be a lot worse)

I think you're coming up with things to support what you think, rather than forming an opinion on the truth

Ficheall

I don't think Val is suggesting that "free fees" are responsible for Rag week, rather that the rest of the population view students, justifiably, as a shower of spoilt brats.
Many are not, I get that, but it's not just a case of "the few tarnishing the reputation of all the rest".

What has the NUIG/GMIT thing got to do with it? Do the fees not affect both institutions? And while you seem, like most NUIG students, to look down on GMIT (and rightly so ) - when there was a huge outcry against Rag week a couple of years back the Gardai arrested 39 NUIG students and 1 GMIT student, if I recall correctly.

challengemaster wrote: »

I think you're coming up with things to support what you think, rather than forming an opinion on the truth

Care to expand on this?

ValJester

challengemaster wrote: »

tbh RAG week hasn't gotten any worse over the years, and there's nothing to prove that it has changed with free fees. If anything, any small alteration could be accounted for by the massive increase in students attending.

As was pointed out, you missed the point. My point was why does the general public have a low opinion of students, nothing to do with fees.

Also, it's not just NUIG. GMIT also have RAG week (and imo, tend to be a lot worse)

And find one part of my post where I single out any specific institution's students.

I think you're coming up with things to support what you think, rather than forming an opinion on the truth

My opinion is based on public drunkenness amongst students and rowdy behaviour leading to the rest of the public justifiably viewing them as irresponsible and obnoxious.

Icky Thump

The Union of Students in Ireland will hold a national march on November 3rd, in Dublin City Centre.

The protest aims to protect education and the future of the country:
Can you afford another massive hike in the registration fee to €3000?
Can you afford another 10% cut to the student maintenance grant?

The demonstration will also highlight the consistent inaction by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Innovation, Batt O' Keeffe, and the Government to take drastic measures to combat the umemployment and emigration crisis among the graduates of this country.


USI is asking you to join us for the event. Participants will gather at Parnell Square at 12.30pm on the day, and then march to Government buildings near Merrion Square in Dublin 2.


=======================================================

im suprised this thread hasnt been started already.



ok listen guys and gals. this isnt just going to affect current students in college right now. this doesnt just hurt those who are going to start college in the near future. this is going to cause grief to every single person in the country. THIS IS NOT JUST AN ISSUE FOR COLLEGE STUDENTS



if you have kids or plan to have kids that one day will want to go to college. if you have brothers or sisters or you yourself plans to go to college in the near future




we cant just sit back and let this happen. we have to stand up and show the state we will not take it lying down.


i dont know about any of you but i cant afford to spend 3000 euro every year for college. thats registration fee. it doesnt matter if your a second year or a fifth year you have to pay the registration fee no matter how much it increases.

WEDNESDAY NOVEMBER 3RD @ 12.30

IN DUBLIN

SO ALL STUDENTS PLEASE COME ALONG.

the more numbers at this then the less likely that the government will screw us over. im saying all students. its doesnt matter if your doing your leaving cert or if your doing your masters. we have to protect the future for our kids. its not right what they are doing.

public sector, private sector, pensioners and so on. students are the most hit and the least helped. while throughout the celtic tiger the other sectors where getting the benifits the students where not. now the other sectors are been hit and been stood up for. but the students are walked over ever time.



students do not have an easy time. we pay fee's. we work(college work) longer hours than most employed leaving us with less time to work a job to make money to live on. some of us recieve grants which are worth 3000 a year. can you survive on 3000 euro a year??

so just one more time please come along. it really will help. you ant complain if you dont even try.


http://www.usi.ie/student-marches.html
http://www.usi.ie/

also it would be helpful if you spread the word. just copy this post and paste it on facebook or twitter or bebo and everywhere else you can think of. we have 250,000 students in college and another load that are doin leaving cert. thats alot of numbers. lets scare the government

Ficheall

Icky Thump wrote: »

also it would be helpful if you spread the word. just copy this post and paste it on facebook or twitter or bebo and everywhere else you can think of.

With all the mistakes included, of course - so everyone knows just how intelligent the students they're funding are.

challengemaster

Ficheall wrote: »

With all the mistakes included, of course - so everyone knows just how intelligent the students they're funding are.

If you're happy to pay a 3k reg fee because of a few typos in a poster.... :rolleyes:

Ficheall

Come now, we were all entitled to kick up a horrible fuss over the terrible writing style in yon Sin article.
And at least they claimed (*cough*) that that was tongue-in-cheek - this certainly isn't. It's being copied and pasted, one would believe, onto all manner of fora etc.
Perhaps it's something in the vein of the Trocaire appeals - "ooh, look! A starving child - we should give them money for food!" = "ooh, look! An illiterate yob - we should give them money for education!"
I hope that's what they were going for...?

DoireNod

What kind of turnout is expected? Last night, I mentioned the march to a few lads that I play soccer with and none of them indicated that they were going, or that they particularly cared. In fact, I know very few people who are going. Maybe I'm running in the wrong circles, but it's certainly not encouraging and, dare I say it, says a lot about our generation.

sillybird

I heard the predident of USI on the radio earlier today. They are expecting 20-25,000. Realy do hope they get the numbers. Like you DoireNod there are not many from my circle of friends interested in going even though they harp on about costs/fees etc. Realy bugs me that we may have a chance to put a stop to all this and people are depending on others to attend ''sure there will be plenty going''!! Maybe a free lolly pop would get students to attend the march!!
If we just look at what the OAP's did to reverse the medical card decision!! They came out in huge numbers.

Come on peeps lets get out there and make our voice be heard!!

PomBear

DoireNod wrote: »

What kind of turnout is expected? Last night, I mentioned the march to a few lads that I play soccer with and none of them indicated that they were going, or that they particularly cared. In fact, I know very few people who are going. Maybe I'm running in the wrong circles, but it's certainly not encouraging and, dare I say it, says a lot about our generation.

SU say they had 8 buses filled on Wednesday evening

mink_man

the oaps protested after the budget....

tbh the government have never said the fees would go to €3000, SU's not giving correct info.

brianthebard

mink_man wrote: »

the oaps protested after the budget....

tbh the government have never said the fees would go to €3000, SU's not giving correct info.

Isn't the registration fee set at the discretion of each individual uni anyways?

challengemaster

brianthebard wrote: »

Isn't the registration fee set at the discretion of each individual uni anyways?

Yes, but the cap on it is set by the government (budget). And as soon as the cap was raised to 1500, they weren't too long in setting it to the max.

As far as I'm aware, I think the 3k figure was hinted at by a number of politicians.

DoireNod

sillybird wrote: »

I heard the predident of USI on the radio earlier today. They are expecting 20-25,000. Realy do hope they get the numbers.

That would be a massive number. I'd be impressed if that many turned up.

sillybird wrote: »

Like you DoireNod there are not many from my circle of friends interested in going even though they harp on about costs/fees etc. Realy bugs me that we may have a chance to put a stop to all this and people are depending on others to attend ''sure there will be plenty going''!!

Honestly, I do believe that marching in force is a proven way to affect change, but I am utterly disheartened by the general apathy of my fellow students. In my experience, those who are leaving third-level education don't care and those who are entering third-level education generally don't have a clue.

sillybird

mink_man wrote: »

the oaps protested after the budget....

tbh the government have never said the fees would go to €3000, SU's not giving correct info.

Yes they did march after the budget and still had the decision reversed!

€3000 has been floating around in media circles. Politicans have not denied the increase when questioned. I honestly don't think that it will go as high as €3000 (they wouldn't would they!!) but I certainly feel that they will raise it, how much remains to be seen.
Not only will fees be hit but its almost guaranteed grants will also be reduced by at least 5% if not 10%. As far as I'm aware the grants were not increased during the boom times.

The other side of the coin is perhaps education would be appreciated if fees were increased :eek:

Personally I as a 2nd year mature student (27) feel genuinely lucky to have the chance to study. So at this stage its **** or bust for me!!

whadabouchasir

PomBear wrote: »

SU say they had 8 buses filled on Wednesday evening

That is quite a poor turnout,400 people out of about 17,000 in the college.I really don't see why the su aren't lobbying the colege to get lectures cancelled for the day,or why the college aren't just cancelling lectures anyway.I'd definitely go if I didn't have lectures and i'm sure a good few more would as well.

ValJester

whadabouchasir wrote: »

That is quite a poor turnout,400 people out of about 17,000 in the college.I really don't see why the su aren't lobbying the colege to get lectures cancelled for the day,or why the college aren't just cancelling lectures anyway.I'd definitely go if I didn't have lectures and i'm sure a good few more would as well.

You can get a letter that gets you out of any classes you can't miss.

joeKel73

Today's news, for those who are considering going but not decided yet: http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1031/fees.html

ValJester wrote: »

You can get a letter that gets you out of any classes you can't miss.

From who?? Have the college agreed to this?

PomBear

whadabouchasir wrote: »

That is quite a poor turnout,400 people out of about 17,000 in the college.I really don't see why the su aren't lobbying the colege to get lectures cancelled for the day,or why the college aren't just cancelling lectures anyway.I'd definitely go if I didn't have lectures and i'm sure a good few more would as well.

Well it was only wednesday seen as they went on sale Tuesday morning, they should get alot more and you are granted academic leave i.e. deadlines can be pushed, attendance not taken just you need to get a form up the SU. It probably will be a pretty poor attendance from NUIG in respect to our population but students are a pretty apathetic bunch, many would go so far as to support fees so they wouldn't have to up off their arse.

Ficheall

PomBear wrote: »

students are a pretty apathetic bunch, many would go so far as to support fees so they wouldn't have to up off their arse.

Apathy mightn't be the only reason. Just as miserliness and selfishness mightn't be the only reasons to oppose student fees.

brianthebard

whadabouchasir wrote: »

That is quite a poor turnout,400 people out of about 17,000 in the college.I really don't see why the su aren't lobbying the colege to get lectures cancelled for the day,or why the college aren't just cancelling lectures anyway.I'd definitely go if I didn't have lectures and i'm sure a good few more would as well.

17,000 whats???? Also why would the college cancel lectures when they're going to profit from this registration fee going up?

Ficheall

brianthebard wrote: »

17,000 whats???? Also why would the college cancel lectures when they're going to profit from this registration fee going up?

17,000 students I'd imagine.
And the predictable (if inaccurate) counter is that they'll profit less if there's less students in college due to inability to pay the fees...

Squeeonline

I would be angry if lectures were cancelled for the day. That's presuming that everyone agrees that fees/hikes should not be introduced.

Despite not having the money, I have no problem investing in my education and future like people do in England and the States. Free 3rd level education was a Celtic Tiger dream and now it's time to wake up.

brianthebard

Ficheall wrote: »

17,000 students I'd imagine.
And the predictable (if inaccurate) counter is that they'll profit less if there's less students in college due to inability to pay the fees...

There's nowhere near 17k students in NUIG. That's close to UCD numbers and Galway does not compete at that level. And although that is the supposed argument against increased reg fees its pretty obvious that the amount of students will not halve if the price doubles, so a profit will still be made.

Squeeonline wrote: »

I would be angry if lectures were cancelled for the day. That's presuming that everyone agrees that fees/hikes should not be introduced.

Despite not having the money, I have no problem investing in my education and future like people do in England and the States. Free 3rd level education was a Celtic Tiger dream and now it's time to wake up.

Free fees came about well before any celtic tiger was in play.

ValJester

Squeeonline wrote: »

Free 3rd level education was a Celtic Tiger dream and now it's time to wake up.

Even during the Celtic Tiger era, it was still more affordable to go to university on the continent than in Ireland despite supposedly "free" fees.