Champion Hurdle 2011

hucklebuck

Anyone looking for outrageous odds for the Champion Hurdle in Cheltenham? Some fools have Captain Cee Bee @ 590. He more than likely won't run in it, but if he falls once or twice over fences or Binocular goes wrong you can bet he will end up running in it.

mdwexford

He has Get Me Out Of Here as a second option to Binocular.

Very little chance of CCB ending up there and he would have a lot to find if he did.

hucklebuck

mdwexford wrote: »

He has Get Me Out Of Here as a second option to Binocular.

Very little chance of CCB ending up there and he would have a lot to find if he did.

You know Cee Bee won it in 2009, don't you? Ok he will be a good age but he still travels beautifully through his races, he was all over Sizing Europe in that Christmas Chase at Leopardstown.

I reckon he will still have enough pace to match anything in the field if he runs. Sure if the chasing doesn't pan out for him where else could he go?

mdwexford

He has never ran in the Champion Hurdle.

He won the Supreme Novices in 2008, id say thats what you are thinking of.

Binocular or Hurricane Fly would leave him for dead these days imo.

Id say they will stick with chasing, slow pace races in Ireland he'll look good like last season and probably win a couple of weakish races before Christmas.

hucklebuck

mdwexford wrote: »

He has never ran in the Champion Hurdle.

He won the Supreme Novices in 2008, id say thats what you are thinking of.

Binocular or Hurricane Fly would leave him for dead these days imo.

Id say they will stick with chasing, slow pace races in Ireland he'll look good like last season and probably win a couple of weakish races before Christmas.

My bad, you are right too. I assumed it was, due to his age:o. I remember every yard of it too, I had an each way smash into Binocular and got a call from a friend who does some work for Mc Manus with a tip of Cee Bee and I left it alone and all my pals were celebrating. Thought I could put it right with Osana in the next and he just got beat by Katchit and Choc got done for overuse of the whip in both, I wanted to kill him!!

I think he could still mix it, worth a punt at that price. he has beaten Binocular and Khyber Kim though and I would expect them to be at the business end next year. Sure it's only a few euro that could pay big.

Ah yeah, I was lucky enough to get a tour of Harty's yard and watch Cee Bee do some work in March before the festival and he looked sweet as a nut. Needless to say I smashed into him for the Arkle, I was brave enough to ask Eddie if he could be entered into the Hurdle as a confidence boost but he said the plan was chasing.

I will back him in his chases too, he is 10's for the Champion Chase good value if he gets his jumping sorted. Masterminded looks like he could be on the decline.

Medermit at 10's for the Arkle looks alright too, does anyone know if he is definately going chasing? If he is half as good as he is over hurdles I am expecting big things

cson

Henderson has some serious options for the Champion Hurdle.

finbarrk

Solwhit would be our best chance I'd say.

mdwexford

finbarrk wrote: »

Solwhit would be our best chance I'd say.

You not see last year??
Had the dirty scope which i think was a load of tripe but he just couldnt live with them when push came to shove.

Id skip Cheltenham and go to Aintree and Punchestown if he was mine.

Hurricane Fly is the best of the Irish at the moment i think.

No doubt Dunguib will scoot up in a couple of small field bad ground races and have his fans again though.

Goldcupfav

Any know the plans for Go Native this year is he going chasing or going for the Champion again ??

cson

Go Native is an interesting one; last years CH can't be his true running. I'd likely go with him again for the CH.

Colonel Sanders

Goldcupfav wrote: »

Any know the plans for Go Native this year is he going chasing or going for the Champion again ??

Meade has said he'll stay over hurdles alright but might not be out until after Xmas

mr.jingle

A horse I liked the look of last week was Australia Day. Has really got his act together over hurdles and at 65/1 on Betfair might be worth a couple of euro. It wasn't much of a race as Katchit is obviously in decline but he did break the course record at Kempton. I ain't one for working out times and all that jazz but looked it up and he done 3min 40 on good ground. I checked up last yr's Christmas Hurdle and it was 3.59 in good/soft going. Would 19sec's be such a big difference on that ground? Obviously we haven't seen any other real contenders yet and Kempton is far different from Cheltenham but being a front runner he could try and succeed where Osana just failed and run them into the ground! Just thought it might be worth a couple of euro!

hucklebuck

Yeah that looks an impressive bit of form alright, looks worth a small bet alright.

I think Go Native and Khyber Kim are well worth a big bet, Binocular is too inconsistent for my liking. I had Go Native at 28's for the Fighting Fifth and ante post for the champion before the FF. I thought I would be collecting a huge lump but from what I remember Go native clattered an early hurdle and never seemed to be travelling well.

I really like Voler La Vedette she looks very eye catching at the start of last year but lost her way, i will try find out the plans for her and how she is doing(not promising anything).

Johner

mr.jingle wrote: »

A horse I liked the look of last week was Australia Day. Has really got his act together over hurdles and at 65/1 on Betfair might be worth a couple of euro. It wasn't much of a race as Katchit is obviously in decline but he did break the course record at Kempton. I ain't one for working out times and all that jazz but looked it up and he done 3min 40 on good ground. I checked up last yr's Christmas Hurdle and it was 3.59 in good/soft going. Would 19sec's be such a big difference on that ground? Obviously we haven't seen any other real contenders yet and Kempton is far different from Cheltenham but being a front runner he could try and succeed where Osana just failed and run them into the ground! Just thought it might be worth a couple of euro!

Might be worth a punt! I'm a huge fan of Australia Day, has won me a lot of money and you always get a good run for your money. Game front runner and has put up some impressive performances.

Nulty

Australia Day

Paul Webber said: "If the weather holds and as long as we think he’s still fresh, we will go to Wincanton for the Elite Hurdle, which is a limited handicap on November 6.

"Then I should think we will put him to bed for the winter. He may end up having to run in the Champion Hurdle without us really knowing if he will act on the ground or go left handed."

He has had problems going left handed in the past

the groutch

I fancy rite of passage mself

Johner

Nulty wrote: »

Australia Day



He has had problems going left handed in the past

That's the worry alright.

UrbanSea

When Binocular is got right,he's hard to catch. As said already,Hurricane Fly would be a serious contender. Wouldn't go near Dunguib. Interesting to see if all the hype will be around Cue Card this year in half the amount Dunguib got.

UrbanSea

Speak of the devil,Cue Card to run at Aintree on Sunday,predicted odds of 13/8 in a novice hurdle. Looks a hot enough race,though.
Race card : http://www.irishracing.com/cards/v5card100201010241630.htm

cson

If Cue Card was out of say Mullin's or Hendersons yard there'd have been reams of pages on him already. Champion Bumper winners don't have a great record in the Supreme/Champion iirc.

UrbanSea

Exactly,big stable and he'd be the next big thing. A horse down to run in Cue Card's novice hurdle is currently favourite for a grade 2 tomorrow.

Fromvert

If Twiston Davies can continue to get a tune out of Khyber Kim, he'll be thereabouts. I became a big fan of his last year and will continue to back him this year.

The Groutch - I think Rite of Passage might be better at 2m4f+.

Not sure if I dreamt it but did Weld say he was tempted to send Profound Beauty hurdling? If she did that would be interesting.

UrbanSea

I think I read that somewhere,I think he was considering it,can't see a link though.

handsomecake

peddlers cross

UrbanSea

handsomecake wrote: »

peddlers cross

...needs further than 2 miles.

Colonel Sanders

The ante post guessing begins

Cue Card's trainer is apparently not ruling anything out re. Cheltenham so the champion hurdle could* be on the agenda

The lads on the Betfair forum are saying he has already schooled over fences so they might not waste an time if he's going novice chasing next year

*remember the same being said about Dunguib last year

Colonel Sanders

Cue Card generally 33/1 for the champion hurdle

UrbanSea

Cue card would make a nice chaser over 2 or 2mile 4. Hope Dunguib isn't kept hurdling this year

mdwexford

He will almost certainly be kept hurdling.

I remember at one stage last year Fenton said he hopes he never has to jump a fence.

UrbanSea

Is it just me that thinks he has chaser written all over him?

HigginsJ

Dunguib has to have an outstanding chance.

Put up a proper jockey on him and ride him nice and close to the pace.

I agree that he has the look of a horse who would jump a fence. I wont jump off the band wagon just yet.

Champion Hurdle this year, Arkle next year, Gold Cup 2013.

Morgans

Dunguib started favourite against Solwhit and Hurricane Fly at Punchestown last year. Has to be the bookies favourite horse. The biggest discrepancy between reputation and actual achievement in training. The type of Irish bandwagon that I thought was dead and gone. I think his best days are behind him, and as I said at last year, the first thing that should be done is to change trainers to give him any chance.

UrbanSea

Morgans wrote: »

Dunguib started favourite against Solwhit and Hurricane Fly at Punchestown last year. Has to be the bookies favourite horse. The biggest discrepancy between reputation and actual achievement in training. The type of Irish bandwagon that I thought was dead and gone. I think his best days are behind him, and as I said at last year, the first thing that should be done is to change trainers to give him any chance.

How he went in as favourite ahead of the two of them is absolutely stupid and anyone who backed him deserved to lose their money.
Anybody see Get Me Out Of Here? Pity the non trier rule wasn't enforced,too scared to touch McCoy.

Morgans

Yep. Psycho and Catch Me also waiting for other days this weekend.

handsomecake

sanctuaire

hucklebuck

greetings wrote: »

How he went in as favourite ahead of the two of them is absolutely stupid and anyone who backed him deserved to lose their money.
Anybody see Get Me Out Of Here? Pity the non trier rule wasn't enforced,too scared to touch McCoy.

Hey mate, I was about to post a thread about that, it was absolutely diabolical. I took him for the Champ Hurdle before it as that was a field he should have murdered. I am absolutely sick, I was well up for the day having had Nacarat and Fair Along I did some Ante Post betting on the King George (Nacarat & Imperial Commander) and the Gold Cup (Imperial Commander & Denman), I stuck €40 on Get Me Out Of Here to put me back up for the day. Absolutely raging, Mc Coy had better hope he does not cross my path!!

UrbanSea

hucklebuck wrote: »

Hey mate, I was about to post a thread about that, it was absolutely diabolical. I took him for the Champ Hurdle before it as that was a field he should have murdered. I am absolutely sick, I was well up for the day having had Nacarat and Fair Along I did some Ante Post betting on the King George (Nacarat & Imperial Commander) and the Gold Cup (Imperial Commander & Denman), I stuck €40 on Get Me Out Of Here to put me back up for the day. Absolutely raging, Mc Coy had better hope he does not cross my path!!

It was a disgrace. I only stuck a tenner on it cos I thought 3/1 was ridiculous(I don't usually back handicap hurdles). The winner was 7th in the Imperial Cup and couldn't win a novice hurdle worth about 10 grand before that. O'Neill's horses aren't worth backing this time of year. I backed some odds on lad in a novice chase last week and he was beaten a distance I'd say or else he was pulled up,but was the worst performance I'd ever seen. And on hurdles rating that lad was about 50 pounds ahead of the winner,the jumping wasn't even awful either.

If Get Me Out Of Here had been running in a small handicap hurdle at a smaller track with an apprentice on him he would have been pulled for non trier.

hucklebuck

greetings wrote: »

It was a disgrace. I only stuck a tenner on it cos I thought 3/1 was ridiculous(I don't usually back handicap hurdles). The winner was 7th in the Imperial Cup and couldn't win a novice hurdle worth about 10 grand before that. O'Neill's horses aren't worth backing this time of year. I backed some odds on lad in a novice chase last week and he was beaten a distance I'd say or else he was pulled up,but was the worst performance I'd ever seen. And on hurdles rating that lad was about 50 pounds ahead of the winner,the jumping wasn't even awful either.

If Get Me Out Of Here had been running in a small handicap hurdle at a smaller track with an apprentice on him he would have been pulled for non trier.

That's very true and it absolutely sickening, I only throw that kind of money on horses at the festivals.

I wound myself up so much posting this that I sent an email to Channel 4 racing and racing for change:

"I am starting to get deluded with racing and it's down to the BHA, we
see the big song and dance about Casela Park and the book being thrown
at the trainer and jockey and it is good to hear. However, just this
Saturday we see a horse of JP's(Get Me Out Of Here - 4.15 Ascot) with
Mc Coy onboard and it was clearly a non trier. I am not having he
pulled for his head, the horse looked ready to throw down a big
challenge three out travelling much better than anything and was not
popped a serious question and this is ok. I expect this horse to be in
the top four come the Champion Hurdle and he is allowed such an
abvious non-try.

If the BHA keep allowing the big names away with this, they will not
only not attract new racing fans but drive away the existing ones. I
have been talking to friends about the recent racing and they all
mention this race too.

Just wondering what you thought about this race."


I got a reply saying they had passed my email to the BHA. I will keep you updated.

hucklebuck

Does anyone else think they should introduce one or two races, one at the start of the card and one at the end with no prizemoney or handicap ramifications and only work riders/ amateurs and if the trainers want to give a horse a run at a course they must use these.

Then well and truely throw the book at the trainers that put out non triers, ie ban them from the festivals and group ones, make it not worth their while.

mdwexford

Back on topic perhaps.

Morgans

hucklebuck wrote: »

That's very true and it absolutely sickening, I only throw that kind of money on horses at the festivals.

I wound myself up so much posting this that I sent an email to Channel 4 racing and racing for change:

"I am starting to get deluded with racing and it's down to the BHA, we
see the big song and dance about Casela Park and the book being thrown
at the trainer and jockey and it is good to hear. However, just this
Saturday we see a horse of JP's(Get Me Out Of Here - 4.15 Ascot) with
Mc Coy onboard and it was clearly a non trier. I am not having he
pulled for his head, the horse looked ready to throw down a big
challenge three out travelling much better than anything and was not
popped a serious question and this is ok. I expect this horse to be in
the top four come the Champion Hurdle and he is allowed such an
abvious non-try.

If the BHA keep allowing the big names away with this, they will not
only not attract new racing fans but drive away the existing ones. I
have been talking to friends about the recent racing and they all
mention this race too.

Just wondering what you thought about this race."


I got a reply saying they had passed my email to the BHA. I will keep you updated.

I wouldn't hold your breath to be honest. I think the horse raced like he wasn't fully fit, not that he wasn't trying, and your mail will be put in a big "talking through pocket" file.

Morgans

mdwexford wrote: »

Back on topic perhaps.

Yeah. Get me out of here is one I'd rule out of the champion, even allowing for an improved effort next time round.

UrbanSea

Morgans wrote: »

Yeah. Get me out of here is one I'd rule out of the champion, even allowing for an improved effort next time round.

Or any sort of effort.

UrbanSea

hucklebuck wrote: »

That's very true and it absolutely sickening, I only throw that kind of money on horses at the festivals.

I wound myself up so much posting this that I sent an email to Channel 4 racing and racing for change:

"I am starting to get deluded with racing and it's down to the BHA, we
see the big song and dance about Casela Park and the book being thrown
at the trainer and jockey and it is good to hear. However, just this
Saturday we see a horse of JP's(Get Me Out Of Here - 4.15 Ascot) with
Mc Coy onboard and it was clearly a non trier. I am not having he
pulled for his head, the horse looked ready to throw down a big
challenge three out travelling much better than anything and was not
popped a serious question and this is ok. I expect this horse to be in
the top four come the Champion Hurdle and he is allowed such an
abvious non-try.

If the BHA keep allowing the big names away with this, they will not
only not attract new racing fans but drive away the existing ones. I
have been talking to friends about the recent racing and they all
mention this race too.

Just wondering what you thought about this race."


I got a reply saying they had passed my email to the BHA. I will keep you updated.

Pity him and Ruby would be above getting a slap on the wrist.

hucklebuck

Morgans wrote: »

I wouldn't hold your breath to be honest. I think the horse raced like he wasn't fully fit, not that he wasn't trying, and your mail will be put in a big "talking through pocket" file.

True enough alright, if they don't reply I will set up a facebook page and get a million friends!! He had plenty left though and surely you get them fit by giving them a half decent race.

Looking forward to seeing Khyber Kim again this year, reckon he will be dangerous in the Champion Hurdle

meriwether

Morgans wrote: »

Dunguib started favourite against Solwhit and Hurricane Fly at Punchestown last year. Has to be the bookies favourite horse. The biggest discrepancy between reputation and actual achievement in training. The type of Irish bandwagon that I thought was dead and gone. I think his best days are behind him, and as I said at last year, the first thing that should be done is to change trainers to give him any chance.

He was the 'Irish Banker' hype horse granted, however this reputation wasn't solely the fault of gullible Irish punters.........talkign head after talking head queued uop at the preview nights to proclaim him to be the banker of the meeting. These guys are jockeys, trainer, reporters, etc. So called experts.

Paddy Brennan said he was bomb proof for instance.
However the hype came about, you are still correct to say reputation >> achievement.

In fairness though, he did beat an Ascot Gold Cup winner in a flat race!

Morgans

meriwether wrote: »

He was the 'Irish Banker' hype horse granted, however this reputation wasn't solely the fault of gullible Irish punters.........talkign head after talking head queued uop at the preview nights to proclaim him to be the banker of the meeting. These guys are jockeys, trainer, reporters, etc. So called experts.

Paddy Brennan said he was bomb proof for instance.
However the hype came about, you are still correct to say reputation >> achievement.

In fairness though, he did beat an Ascot Gold Cup winner in a flat race!

There was hype before the meeting, and its often the case. Hype horses can win and great for them. Its easy to get sucked in though. The talking heads at those preview meetings are more interesting for what they dont say. Anyone who takes what is said on the run up to cheltenham with anything other than a pinch of salt will learn soon enough.

The difference between Dunguib and Rite of Passage (who was also a beaten favourite at the festival) is the fact that one is trained by one of the greatest in the game and the horse will continue to improve throughout his career. There are those who believe that because Rite of Passage won the Ascot Gold Cup that Dunguib would have won it. The very same people would laugh at the idea that any of the other horses that beat Rite of Passage like Some Present or Peddlers Cross would win an Ascot Gold Cup.

Ive said it before that I backed Dunguib to win the Chelt bumper and Ive never been so certain of a winner at the festival so far from home. One of the great cheltenham performances.

meriwether

Morgans wrote: »

There was hype before the meeting, and its often the case. Hype horses can win and great for them. Its easy to get sucked in though. The talking heads at those preview meetings are more interesting for what they dont say. Anyone who takes what is said on the run up to cheltenham with anything other than a pinch of salt will learn soon enough.

The difference between Dunguib and Rite of Passage (who was also a beaten favourite at the festival) is the fact that one is trained by one of the greatest in the game and the horse will continue to improve throughout his career. There are those who believe that because Rite of Passage won the Ascot Gold Cup that Dunguib would have won it. The very same people would laugh at the idea that any of the other horses that beat Rite of Passage like Some Present or Peddlers Cross would win an Ascot Gold Cup.

Ive said it before that I backed Dunguib to win the Chelt bumper and Ive never been so certain of a winner at the festival so far from home. One of the great cheltenham performances.

I don't know enough about Fenton to be able to comment on his abilities. It stands to reason however that a change of scenenry may do Dunguib good. I'd love to see Henderson get his hands on him.

And no, Dunguib would definitely not have won the Gold Cup.

Morgans

meriwether wrote: »

I don't know enough about Fenton to be able to comment on his abilities. It stands to reason however that a change of scenenry may do Dunguib good. I'd love to see Henderson get his hands on him.

And no, Dunguib would definitely not have won the Gold Cup.

I dont rate Fenton but Dermot Weld would be superior to the vast vast majority of trainers. One of the greatest in Irish history.

meriwether

Morgans wrote: »

I dont rate Fenton but Dermot Weld would be superior to the vast vast majority of trainers. One of the greatest in Irish history.

Definitely. Was in Oz for a year, he is hugely respected over there for Vintage Crop, Media Puzzle and Vinnie Roe. And they make a point about being ignorant to and about foreign invaders for the Melbourne Cup.

His farming of the international races is his best achievement.

Nulty

They took Weld into their hearts because he was able to recite any Banjo Patterson (Waltzing Matilda) poem they cared to name. They named one and he reciteed it for the press. Like speaking French (Well!) to the French, its the best way to be accepted into another culture is to embrace it.

I learned about this only in the build up to this years Cup.