When are we going to Protest just like France?

bob2oo7

Just as the title says.... do you think this is going to happen after Decembers budget?

I heard a rumor that additional Gardaí were recieving training in RIOT control in preparation ahead of the budget in December

I'm really begining to hate how this Country and I think its about time we take to the streets

Sykk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2RItLuDPY8

PanchoVilla

There's gonna be a march on budget day. Dec. 7th, 7:00 pm from the Garden of Remembrance. Be there or be....well, or don't be.


http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=154859997881753

Son Of A Vidic

Never! We talk the talk alright, but never walk the walk.

Biggins

Just as soon as some folk get away from their bar stools.

Snakeblood

bob2oo7 wrote: »

Just as the title says.... do you think this is going to happen after Decembers budget?

I heard a rumor that additional Gardaí were recieving training in RIOT control in preparation ahead of the budget in December

I'm really begining to hate how this Country and I think its about time we take to the streets

ORGANISE ONE.

Jesus.

Throwing your hands up and saying 'SOMEONE SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT THESE PROBLEMS' is inane. DO SOMETHING. If you think protests will help, organise one, instead of being Johnny fartaround number 223019 posting here saying 'there needs to be a protest\riot\revolution\teaparty'.

Riddle101

Sure Ireland's had it's own protest itself. But in answer to the question, I reckon if the budget is really bad there will be a few people going to the streets. But personally I don't see what difference it will make. Like most protests it'll end with people going home still annoyed.

That being said, I have my own little underground bunker for when the riots begin:D

bonerm

Come December 7th we are going to grumble under our breath like never before. It's going to be vicious. Mark my words! :mad:

curlzy

God I can't wait for Irish people to rally and march, I would hope peacefully but I honestly think that it'll turn into a riot, because we've been taking it up the ass quietly for so long so when we do eventually object we're going to completely object in a big firey way. Personally, I think the sooner the better.

Renn

Look back on the past 400 years of uprisings and all that and you'll see how good we are at it.

Notorious97

As much as id love to see a mass riot, running the government out of government buildings, looting, burning down the town all in the name of recovery, it will cost alot more the next day with the clean up unfortunately, therefore i hope any protests are peaceful. I doubt this will be the case though but its more money down the toilet if we wreck Dublin.

battries not included

what exactly is going to be cut in december budget?

i'm on a BTEA and claim for my partner & son

excuse my ignorance:o

bonerm

Notorious97 wrote: »

As much as id love to see a mass riot, running the government out of government buildings, looting, burning down the town all in the name of recovery, it will cost alot more the next day with the clean up unfortunately, therefore i hope any protests are peaceful. I doubt this will be the case though but its more money down the toilet if we wreck Dublin.

How about we just copy the atomic bomb tactics of the US and destroy a couple of secondary cities like Cork first so the government get the message without us damaging any actual valuable property.

Turtyturd

bob2oo7 wrote: »

Just as the title says.... do you think this is going to happen after Decembers budget?

I heard a rumor that additional Gardaí were recieving training in RIOT control in preparation ahead of the budget in December

Also heard from someone who works in security in Leinster House that more Gardai are to be deployed to Leinster House around the budget due to expected rioting.

faceman

bob2oo7 wrote: »

I heard a rumor that additional Gardaí were recieving training in RIOT control in preparation ahead of the budget in December

LOL

Head of the Garda Riot Squad: Ok gardai, we got to be prepared for the public backlash to this year's budget, expect riots, angry people, swearing, lack of conformity.

Random Garda: And where can we expect these riots to breakout?

Head of the Garda Riot Squad: Eh, the internet.

SugarHigh

Never because all France has done is shown us what a bad idea that would be.

123balltv

The french have passion
we just dont have any were knackered working long hours afraid of
whats to come

Renn

SugarHigh wrote: »

Never because all France has done is shown us what a bad idea that would be.

Exactly. Look at what it did to us in 1798 ffs.

SamSamSammy

most people won't protest because they are happy and get on with life.

of course there will be a few nutters who will, but no one will listen to them. they should just stick to posting on boards.ie

up for anything

If the government have any sense they will impose different budget cuts in different counties.

Then we will march - Dublin against Waterford, Waterford against Galway, Galway against Kilkenny, Kilkenny against Offaly, Offaly against................. It'll keep us occupied for years while they can get on with the business of jobs for the boys.

How many of you would really, definitely and absolutely turn up if I said I had organised a peaceful protest to take place in Kilkenny, this Sunday at 12pm? The short notice would mean that you might have to upset a few people, miss that christening, forego your Sunday lie-in, trade work shifts, put off that family outing, miss out on buying that LBD, listen to your friends and family say you're a cnut - what difference will you being there make and Auntie Peggy will be desolate you missed her 80th or maybe they will say - well done you, I wish I could go with you but......

thebigbiffo

i for one will watch it on the news and online - i'm extremely interested in mob violence and find it quite satisfying when violent protesters get knocked on the head by batons and riot shields. I will be safe in the knowledge it will make f'uck all difference if not make matters worse.

if someone wants to burn down anlgo while they're at it though i'd find it funny

bonerm

123balltv wrote: »

The french have passion
we just dont have any were knackered working long hours afraid of
whats to come

Haha, the French won't have so much energy now that their retirement age has been raised to 62. Suckers!!!*











*Oh, wait .......

Renn

And burn Clara too.

Notorious97

bonerm wrote: »

How about we just copy the atomic bomb tactics of the US and destroy a couple of secondary cities like Cork first so the government get the message without us damaging any actual valuable property.

Im all for this, revenge for Dublin losing to Cork also so its +1 from me haha

In all seriousness though, i think there is going to be absolute murder on Budget Day, hopefully RTE have good coverage haha

KerranJast

123balltv wrote: »

The french have passion
we just dont have any were knackered working long hours afraid of
whats to come

The French are lazy gits. Their country is ****ed unless they sort out the pensions timebomb yet the protestors are too stupid (or probably too stubborn) to accept this.

We live in a Democracy. There'll be an election soon and we can have our say then. In the meantime can we at least try to act like a grownup country? I know thats hard for us Irish to do considering we've acted like a spoiled teenager with free access to Dads credit card over the last 10 years.

Br4tPr1nc3

i doubt anything will happen.
everyone will moan and just take it bent over.

Biggins

The French are many things but they have one the best health care systems in the world - and they didn't get that by sitting on their arse and just accepting a situation and submitting full time to up high orders.

El_Dangeroso

I think the real reason we're not out rioting is that, unlike France, we are actually on the brink of bankruptcy as a country and are far more exposed to the vagaries of the global market. France actually has indigenous industry whereas we are entirely dependent of foreign investment. We don't want to be giving the impression of an unstable country when we're trying to sell ourselves (whore ourselves if you will) for foreign investment.

This means we are all scared, terrified of what might happen if we don't go along with things, so most of us are keeping the head down, trying to ride it out hoping that we'll get through without too much pain. That's what the Irish are good at, enduring horrible pain, moaning about it but generally doing nothing about it. I'm beginning to think that as a nation, we enjoy misery.

Riddle101

Just been asked by my student union to rally up for a march due to the government threatening to rise student fees to €3000 next year. Apparently all the colleges are in on it

Renn

Tell the SU to f*ck off. You know it's the right thing to do.

Wicklowrider

I sincerely hope nobody gets hurt and no property damged.
I think we need a different form of pressure than just marching.Whats a useful number of people? 100,000? Say you start small, 10 people sign on ten people and so on. Each person committed to action. when you have a 100,000 draw up a list of politicians, bankers and developers etc that got us into this. Inform them that 100,000 people will be dropping by their home to talk things over. See how fast they react to that. If that 100,000 people put up a €100 each towards sueing one of the bankers you'd get further than you would marching,posting on the internet etc. Let them know we are coming after them and they sure won't be sniggering in the tearooms of the four courts. As for the ones who've left the country - arrange for them to be escorted back by some gentlemen ( preferably carrying forged Isreali and russian passports). Anyway, something different and as I've said over and over again boycott the offenders, sell them nothing provide them no service, let them rot.

Orando Broom

People don't protest in Ireland because of the people who invariably become the ringleaders of these outings. Sinn Fein, Reclaim the streets et al etc. keep the majority of ordinary people off the streets because they are not motivated by any economic concerns the ordinary people have but rather propagate an anti authority ruck with the cops.

You just have to go on these marches to see the amount of scobes who have never paid a dime in tax or worked a day in their lives, ranting about the 'currupt guvvurment'.

Unfortunately our right to protest has been corralled by a shower of lunatics who do not act in the interest of the ordinary 5/8 worker who is being fücked up the ass by the 'elite' and the tens of thousands of perma-dole skangers who would lie on the ground if there was work on the bed.

mickydoomsux

Biggins wrote: »

The French are many things but they have one the best health care systems in the world - and they didn't get that by sitting on their arse and just accepting a situation and submitting full time to up high orders.

Yeah, they got it by paying high taxes.

Biggins

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Yeah, they got it by paying high taxes.

...And they continue to pay them - and are healthy enough to pay them and keep working.

dsmythy

Looking at the footage of a lot of it seems to be youths with little interest in pension reform and more interest in general thuggery.

mickydoomsux

Biggins wrote: »

...And they continue to pay them - and are healthy enough to pay them and keep working.

Which invalidates your previous point. They did get it by sitting on their arses, paying their taxes and submitting to "high orders", whatever they are.

We'd have a great health system as well if we had to have been paying their level of tax for the past few decades.

Biggins

dsmythy wrote: »

Looking at the footage of a lot of it seems to be youths with little interest in pension reform and more interest in general thuggery.

Indeed. Like the (few) protests that happen in Ireland, such things sometimes get ruined by others will little agenda understanding of a protest other than to cause devilment and/or chaos - or they want to publicise themselves at any given opportunity. Even of that means ruining others chances of speaking out.

mickydoomsux

dsmythy wrote: »

Looking at the footage of a lot of it seems to be youths with little interest in pension reform and more interest in general thuggery.

Usual rent-a-mob scobes. They would be just as likely to riot because PSG lost a match because of an unfair penalty or somesuch.

Biggins

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Which invalidates your previous point. They did get it by sitting on their arses, paying their taxes and submitting to "high orders", whatever they are.

No, they get it by getting up off their arse and continue to go to work most days, in order to get those wages and then pay those taxes - either directly or by the purchasing of goods/services!

folan

Que?

paky

the only reason there has been no rioting yet is because the social welfare at the moment is quite generous so people are not that desperate. but if they touch that in the budget like they have in the last two you might see people getting volatile. the government is two clever though. they gradually chip away at the welfare because they know the consequences of a full attack on the welfare system would be!!

mickydoomsux

Biggins wrote: »

No, they get it by getting up off their arse and continue to go to work most days, in order to get those wages and then pay those taxes - either directly or by the purchasing of goods/services!

So you saying Irish people don't do this?

I don't really follow your point at all. France has a good healthcare system because they pay to have it, we don't because we don't pay for it, we'd rather waste our tax money on overly generous social welfare payments It's pretty simple.

There's a student protest organised for the 3rd of November in Dublin against the increase of registration fees to €3,000

KerranJast

mickydoomsux wrote: »

So you saying Irish people don't do this?

I don't really follow your point at all. France has a good healthcare system because they pay to have it, we don't because we don't pay for it, we'd rather waste our tax money on overly generous social welfare payments It's pretty simple.

We play a hell of a lot for our Health Service between tax and Insurance. It all goes down one big black hole though.

paky

whats the point in protest? it doesnt do anything! its not gona undo what had been done. the next government is going to inherit all these problems and its not gona make any difference.

what we need is justice and the ones who got us into this mess held accountable for their actions. something on the lines of the Nuremburg Trials would be appropriate

mickydoomsux

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a student protest organised for the 3rd of November in Dublin against the increase of registration fees to €3,000

I predict it ending up looking like the Arthurs Day celebrations.

mickydoomsux

mickydoomsux wrote: »

I predict it ending up looking like the Arthurs Day celebrations.

Not in the slightest.

conorhal

I'm rightly sick of these threads.

The reasons people don't protest are simple.

Firstly, there is no credible leadership behind whom a popular protest movement can form.
What are our options, a movement led by Labor and FG? I think not, they defined themselves in opposition primarily by shouting about how they are not FF (which is not really a policy), and then trying to outbid FF for the public vote with Dutch auction politics, they are merely self interested gombeen men and nobody has much time for an alternative that is no alternative at all.
Can we get behind the trade unions and other workers representative bodies? God no. What has become painfully clear with benchmarking and the FAS debacle is that the so called opposition were in fact inside at the party all along with their feet up on the table. They simply have no credibility. How can anybody march behind an ICTU banner when so many people see them as part of the problem?
The we have the Eirigi, Shinners, SWP, People before Profit, lunatic fringe that would turn up at the opening of an envelope with a protest banner. They definitely offer no credible solution, just catchy slogans and angry meetings filled with granola munching sandal wearers that spend their days looking for somebody to blame whatever axe they are grinding this week. They’re nothing but clownshoes.

Secondly, a protest must have a point. I think most people recognize the fact that we’re f***ed, and that cuts are inevitable. ‘No to cuts!’ is an easy, pointless and inevitable response to the situation, but what are these people shouting yes to?
A protest needs a specific aim or demand beyond ‘no to..’, otherwise a protest becomes a noisy pointless rabble of naysayers with no alternative to offer in a situation where something clearly must be done and thus offering a real alternative is a prerequisite for any popular support. When demands are proposed they are usually many and incoherent, chanted out by one special interest group after another all keen to protect their patch, but utterly devoid of national vision.

And finally, looting a small business owners shop putting him out of business and his employees onto the dole and burning some poor guy’s car that he probably needs to get to work achieves exactly squat.

I expect that I will be protesting in the near future in the only place that a protest actually matters, on a ballot paper.

Biggins

mickydoomsux wrote: »

So you saying Irish people don't do this?

I don't really follow your point at all. France has a good healthcare system because they pay to have it, we don't because we don't pay for it, we'd rather waste our tax money on overly generous social welfare payments It's pretty simple.

Ok, Maybe its my fault for not making my daftness clearer.

Some general background stuff first
We pay taxes (good) but the 'team' we have in government has continously mis-managed it repeatedly.
While doing so, they have at the same time saw to it that they continue to be in co-hoots with banks, businesses (anyone remember Ben Dunne and that one example fiasco?), large property owners and developers and long story short, saw to it that their own pockets were lined.

Back to France. while they indeed are not perfect (far from it), they too went off to work daily and did their grafting. They too paid their slightly higher taxes and that money went to the state one way or another.
In return they got (as per the one example I'm rabbiting on about) a good health care system - and fair play to them.

France and its politicians - as bad as they might be (can't remember the last time any of them was hauled up over expenses - I'm sure someone was - but I can't remember), they carried on saving and spending more so in vital areas.

Now we are paying our taxes and getting health cuts in basic care (amid other areas which I do certainly agree is necessary. The top of the HSE is too bloated.).
France is paying their taxes (seeing as you brought this one issue up) and they continue to get great health care.
The French right now are not protesting over those taxes. They are protesting over the fact that for those taxes they are willing to pay, their retirements is being shoved further away (but thats another issue).

The short version of my thinking is this (but I hope you can see a bigger picture where I'm coming from).

If a nation is a lot more healthy, they keep working batter, less sick days, more productivity possible within any one day. Generally they are a more happy and content people.
If our nations health is not cared for, then its like a stack of dominoes, the knock on effect can be dramatic to say the least.

I understand where your coming from on the social welfare issue and you will find me little differing from you in many respects there. We (our government I assume) would not rather be spending our tax/levy/whatever they can call it with every new month, but because of continuing self-appeasement to (again, far over paid themselves heads at) unions, business lobbies and "donater's" to their party, our lower taxes are much more so being abused and mismanaged.

mickydoomsux

Now it makes sense

What you're describing is good old-fashioned Irish politic-ing. The utterly broken system over here is the problem. Our entire state is pretty much a failed experiment. We need to start huge tax, political and social welfare reforms to get it shaped into some kind of sustainable model.

Hopefully the upcoming budgets and elections can get the ball rolling on that and we can finally join the rest of Europe as a 21st century country as opposed to trying to follow the lead of some long dead idealists from 1916. The world, for better or worse, has long passed their ideas by.

Biggins

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Now it makes sense

What you're describing is good old-fashioned Irish politic-ing. The utterly broken system over here is the problem. Our entire state is pretty much a failed experiment. We need to start huge tax, political and social welfare reforms to get it shaped into some kind of sustainable model.

Hopefully the upcoming budgets and elections can get the ball rolling on that and we can finally join the rest of Europe as a 21st century country as opposed to trying to follow the lead of some long dead idealists from 1916. The world, for better or worse, has long passed their ideas by.

I'd like to think so but the 'team' that has been in power now for 20+ years (generally on and off - more on than off sadly!) has still not learned some lessons even after so many years - and continue to screw-up.
Why anyone would still vote/show support for them on that history alone, is beyond me!
Sadly again, what I see in FG and perhaps others presently in the Dail, is not much better - so I and many others continue to despair.