Sack the bastards; Michael O Leary

Nijmegen

20Cent wrote: »

Social welfare promotes economic activity also. Mention that and your chairman Mao, let a business be subsidised and its great. Just a hypocrisy there.

Unions use their leverage striking to get what they want it is considered socialism and bad. O'Leary uses his leverage (we will stop using your airport) its "good business". Don't see much difference between the two,

100% of social welfare, and the activity it promotes, comes from tax.

If the government subsidises €10 (using round numbers) for me to fly into a regional airport, I spend the weekend there and spend €100 on a hotel, meals, pints (I'm a cheap date), then 10% of the economic activity generated was state subsidised, versus the €0 that would have been spent had they not subsidised the visit.

It's a big simplification. But social welfare and a subsidy for a regional airport are two different things in terms of the economic activity they generate.

To use business terms alien to the public sector in general, a well placed, thought out and justified subsidy should reap a profit.

AlekSmart

I rather suspect what pizzez-off most Irish folk about Michael O Leary is his fondness for saying it like it is.

O Leary has never attempted to portray himself as anything other than a one-trick pony.
He has in fact in a very recent interview reiterated that.

Our national fondness for obfuscation in everything has led us to elect and elevate generations of side-of-mouth people to positions of responsibility and power.

Once installed there,these charlatans will happily spout ad nauseum whatever stuff they believe the Proles want to hear....."More Beer and Crisps"...."No More Road Tax"...."Free Stuff for Everybody"....etc etc.

O Leary has,to my knowledge,never engaged in such stuff,but has unashamedly promoted his own Business and engaged aggressively with his competitors.

This sort of thing,in many Irish minds,is far too direct an attitude for a native to have and,as such,needs to be slapped right down.

As a nation we have historically produced the bravest and most inventive of people who have spread their influence far and wide,but they tended to have been followers rather than leaders and only to have reached their creative peak after being brought to their destinations by Leaders of a different hue.

Dirk Gently

AlekSmart wrote: »

I rather suspect what pizzez-off most Irish folk about Michael O Leary is his fondness for saying it like it is.

O Leary has never attempted to portray himself as anything other than a one-trick pony.
He has in fact in a very recent interview reiterated that.

TBH my biggest gripe with him isn't even MoL himself, its the cheer leaders who spout on about wishing he was Taoisigh. I recognise O Leary for what he is, an arrogant one dimensional child like figure who happens to be very good at promoting his own business. It's the people who believe society would be better off with him in charge of running the country that piss me off tbh.

AlekSmart wrote: »

O Leary has,to my knowledge,never engaged in such stuff,but has unashamedly promoted his own Business and engaged aggressively with his competitors.
.

Well he had no problem changing his tune on lisbon and campaigning for a yes vote 2nd time around when he wanted to win european support to buy out aer lingus, this after saying it would be undemocratic to vote after the first result returned a No (no doubt just sticking the boot into the government at the time).

I have major issues with the democratic process being used and abused by business people for the promotion of their own companies. At least he was transparent, unlike Ganley who I'm sure was standing on his own corporate ticket. Here we had two people on either side of the debate looking out for number 1 but frolicking about on national tv trying to be men of the people. Ganley himself a man of little substance politically was able to run rings around O Leary which makes me wonder how O leary would fair in a real debate with people who answer back as opposed to snotty press releases designed to get public back slaps cos sure hes a great man altogether.

If O leary wants to interfere in politics he should stand for election, maybe contact donegal and eldraob on here and set up a capitalist utopia party or something. Otherwise I wish he'd just stfu and concentrate on Ryan air instead of running united colours of benetton type campaigns for free publicity. He didnt even have to mention blow jobs this time to get his publicity. When I see him sit down and debate on vincent Browne or similar about how to run a country as opposed to an airline then I might respect him, otherwise he's just like every other idiot sitting on a bar stool spouting their solutions and getting in digs against the government. I suppose at least he has his own personal agenda so its constructive slogan shouting from his point of view. People dont see through this though and I suppose that's their fault, not his.

AlekSmart

People dont see through this though and I suppose that's their fault, not his.

Got in in 1,ClownBag,the very same principle which saw the State run as an off-shoot of one Political Party and it`s many "friends".....In a very real sense it has been "Our" fault. :mad:

20Cent

Obscene a multimillionaire calling people who are working, struggling to pay their mortgages look after their kids, Bastards. F him.

Head The Wall

20Cent wrote: »

The problem I have with him is that his company gets tens of millions if not hundred in taxpayers money from all over Europe.

He doesn't just get handed these subsidies, governments choose to offer them and they are put out to tender. There's more than ryanair getting these subsidies and if MOL wasn't getting them some other airline would. He can obviously offer the cheapest, most efficient and on time service compared to other airlines and anyone that doesn't like his business model has the choice not too fly with them. It's as simple as that

20Cent wrote: »

Obscene a multimillionaire calling people who are working, struggling to pay their mortgages look after their kids, Bastards. F him.

Peoples personal situations never come into account when redundancies or sackings are happening, what about the 300 who lost their jobs in Shannon Aerospace and IBM, do you reckon they only let go the single people with no mortgages. Get real

20Cent

Head The Wall wrote: »

He doesn't just get handed these subsidies, governments choose to offer them and they are put out to tender. There's more than ryanair getting these subsidies and if MOL wasn't getting them some other airline would. He can obviously offer the cheapest, most efficient and on time service compared to other airlines and anyone that doesn't like his business model has the choice not too fly with them. It's as simple as that



Peoples personal situations never come into account when redundancies or sackings are happening, what about the 300 who lost their jobs in Shannon Aerospace and IBM, do you reckon they only let go the single people with no mortgages. Get real

You know they are put out to tender?
Funny they are being sued all over Europe for illegal subsidies and for anti-competition practices.

Don't think O'Leary called the worker in Aerospace and IBM bastards just before they were fired. Maybe he did though the prick.

The_Thing

Head The Wall wrote: »

Hey it's you that's doing the whining not me, you union lovers are such happy people. He made the choice to donate the proceeds to charity, if he loved money so much he would have just kept them

I'm sure that along with MOL there's plenty of other business people in Ireland who donate to charity, however I have yet to see any of them make themselves look like an idiot in the process.

You're just a whiny jealous begrudger, plain and simple

Really? You seem to have made a successful career out of it.

Head The Wall

20Cent wrote: »

You know they are put out to tender?
Funny they are being sued all over Europe for illegal subsidies and for anti-competition practices.

Don't think O'Leary called the worker in Aerospace and IBM bastards just before they were fired. Maybe he did though the prick.

They are in this country, airlines have to compete for them and Ryanair took a few of them off Aer Arann. There's probably EU competition regulations behind it all.

His taxes aren't wasted paying the wages in IBM or Shannon Aerospace so why would he call them names. What hapopened in those companies will be happening in the PS, wait and see as there's no other way out of the situation we are in.

The_Thing wrote: »

I'm sure that along with MOL there's plenty of other business people in Ireland who donate to charity, however I have yet to see any of them make themselves look like an idiot in the process.

So your issue now is that he looks like an idiot while doing stuff for charity, you have obviously never done anything for charity if that is your gripe.

Again it's not me whining on here but you

irishh_bob

clown bag wrote: »

TBH my biggest gripe with him isn't even MoL himself, its the cheer leaders who spout on about wishing he was Taoisigh. I recognise O Leary for what he is, an arrogant one dimensional child like figure who happens to be very good at promoting his own business. It's the people who believe society would be better off with him in charge of running the country that piss me off tbh.


Well he had no problem changing his tune on lisbon and campaigning for a yes vote 2nd time around when he wanted to win european support to buy out aer lingus, this after saying it would be undemocratic to vote after the first result returned a No (no doubt just sticking the boot into the government at the time).

I have major issues with the democratic process being used and abused by business people for the promotion of their own companies. At least he was transparent, unlike Ganley who I'm sure was standing on his own corporate ticket. Here we had two people on either side of the debate looking out for number 1 but frolicking about on national tv trying to be men of the people. Ganley himself a man of little substance politically was able to run rings around O Leary which makes me wonder how O leary would fair in a real debate with people who answer back as opposed to snotty press releases designed to get public back slaps cos sure hes a great man altogether.

If O leary wants to interfere in politics he should stand for election, maybe contact donegal and eldraob on here and set up a capitalist utopia party or something. Otherwise I wish he'd just stfu and concentrate on Ryan air instead of running united colours of benetton type campaigns for free publicity. He didnt even have to mention blow jobs this time to get his publicity. When I see him sit down and debate on vincent Browne or similar about how to run a country as opposed to an airline then I might respect him, otherwise he's just like every other idiot sitting on a bar stool spouting their solutions and getting in digs against the government. I suppose at least he has his own personal agenda so its constructive slogan shouting from his point of view. People dont see through this though and I suppose that's their fault, not his.

vincent browne would have lenins skeleton on his show before michael o leary got an invite

TomKehoe

Head The Wall wrote: »

Ye probably dislike him because he doesn't tolerate unions, their useless members and the crap they try on.

I'm in a union. It frequently embarrasses me but, hey, my pay wouldn't be as good without it so I'm prepared put up with the embarrassment of having to support my lazy work-shy colleagues who do nothing useful at work but, like me, bring home good salaries. Sometimes though, I think the Michael OLearys of this world have a point.

Then I have another cup of tea and forget about it for another while.

padrepio

Where are the 500,000 jobs that people on the dole will automatically walk into?

typical populist publicity seeking ****e from MOL. A fine businessman no doubt, he transformed air travel in Europe (copied the idea from Southwest but so what), lives in Ireland, pays huge taxes and employs thousands etc.

MOL does not have the national interest at heart he has his own. I think most have realised it at this stage.

As others have mentioned he made an ass of himself in the Lisbon debates, remember Ganley making a complete fool of him, Ganley made some point about MOL only getting involved to curry flavour in Brussels and he just smirked and laughed to himself.

noone cares to mention his hairbrained investment in Aer Lingus that continues to cost his airline a packet, the way Ryanair still havent gone across the Atlantic etc. To be honest I dont think his exit strategy is far away anyway. Aer Lingus and Ryanair wont merge if MOL is still involved but both airlines may be forced to if the US and Europe recession continues.

Sleepy

TomKehoe wrote: »

I'm in a union. It frequently embarrasses me but, hey, my pay wouldn't be as good without it so I'm prepared put up with the embarrassment of having to support my lazy work-shy colleagues who do nothing useful at work but, like me, bring home good salaries. Sometimes though, I think the Michael OLearys of this world have a point.

Then I have another cup of tea and forget about it for another while.

Think about that again. We'll use round figures for the purposes of clarity.

Let's say The Department of Silly Walks is given an annual budget of €1,500,000 with €1,000,000 of this to be used for salaries.

Now, they can hire 20 people at a total cost to hire them of €50,000 using collective bargaining where everyone has to be paid the same salary.

Were those 20 to accept a payment for performance deal whereby the top 5 people got a good bonus and the next 5 got a lower bonus, the next 5 remain on their base-rate and the bottom 5 take a pay-cut. The best workers in the department could now expect to earn significantly above the 50k they're currently on and performance could reasonably be expected to increase.

Now, the Department needs to cut wage costs by 10% and now only has €900,000 to spend on it's workers or €45,000 per worker. So all staff can equally take that level of pay or were we to ignore the unions, the following could be done. Imagine that 20% of the workers in The Department of Silly Walks are like your "lazy work-shy colleagues", they could be let go resulting in a staff of 16 people who will accept a little more work each.

This could be dished out evenly as €56,250 per remaining worker, so productive staff could actually get pay raises while costs fell. Or, you could say that the base rate is going to raise to €55,000 per person and use the remaining €20,000 of your wage budget to pay for a bonus scheme to reward either the top 25% of staff by an extra €5,000 a year or, similar to the previous scheme, the top 25% get an extra €4k per year with the other 25% working above the median level getting an extra €1k.

The result is: less, better incentivised, more productive staff getting the same (or possibly more) work done and instead of your lazy, workshy colleagues bringing home good salaries like you do, you get a cut of their salary whilst the taxpayer saves money (possibly leading to lower taxes than would otherwise be necessary and further boosting your take-home pay) and the quality of Silly Walks improves.

TLDR: it's not just embarrasment that your lazy, workshy colleagues are costing you.