Why no cuts to the old age pension?

Atlantic Dawn

Why is the old age pension exempt from cuts, surely cuts need to be across the board, it's purely courting the grey vote from Fianna Fail.

There will be no cuts to the old age pension in the December Budget, Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan has indicated.

Cork North Central Fianna Fáil TD Noel O’Flynn said he met with Minister Lenihan recently in relation to the old age pension, and is now confident that pension rates will not be cut.

“Minister Lenihan said there will be no reduction in the old age pension. He said: ‘I can’t guarantee anything else, but there will be no reduction in the old age pension’,” he said.

“Nothing is certain until the document comes out on December 7 but I’m confident that there will be no decrease in the pensions of senior citizens,” he added.

However, Deputy O’Flynn said that he did expect cuts to other social welfare benefits.

The Cork North Central TD said he that would be unable to support any measure which reduced old-age pensions, but he stressed that he had not threatened to withdraw his support for the Government.



Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/oflynn-no-cuts-to-the-old-age-pension-478345.html#ixzz12pWDMd8X

flutered

so santy is alive and well living in kildare street.

irishh_bob

fianna fail know that the irish people are incredibly sentimental when it comes to the elderly , whether a pensioner is wealthy ( and a lot of them are ) seems irrelevant when it comes to cuts , the majority of people seem to have bought into the stereotype of the impoverished old man living in a one bedroom cottage with no central heating and only a candle with which to read irelands own

thier is nothing to be gained politically by cutting the OAP and a whole world of pain from all sides if you do

changes

They should take at least a 5% cut, prices of most things have gone down.

Jesus Wept

Because they vote.

blue_steel

First everyone had to feel their share of the pain.
Then corporations were an exception.
Now pensioners are an exception.
It seems FF don't really understand the word everyone.

Godge

They are afraid of the silver vote.

I don't mind so long as they abolish the favourable tax arrangements for over-65s and cut the fringe benefits as well as hitting the public service pensioners.

That will be fair enough.

snubbleste

So it won't be cut?
Hopefully it will be taxed so.

5live

Heard from a tally man at the last election that over 80% of OAPs vote while less than 40% of under 40s vote. Plus the OAPs have a lot of time to protest and pass the day and we pay for their free transport to attend the protests. Great country:rolleyes:

Bigtoe107

In my opinion the reason the oap is not getting cut is the opposite of the reason student funds are. All people are going to become oap's one day so this sentiment is really a vested intrest in protecting their own, whereas none of the people in power will ever become a student again so they don't care.
Add to that the high proportion of elderly that vote and the relatively low turn out in the young, and you get the current situation.

P.s not saying I agree or disagree with cut's to oap's and students, just giving reasons why one group is targeted and the other isn't.

yermanoffthetv

The-Rigger wrote: »

Because they vote.

Was going to say the exact same thing. Remember the medical card debacle, it was like dawn of the nearly dead Old people have the highest turnout stats of all the demographics so are a delicate area for politicians.Its the usual squermey political tactics at play "tax hikes for some, minature american flags for others" (applause) :rolleyes:

average_runner

Alot of those old people are the ones that suffered through the 70's and 80's and yet got us our education and gave us good things in life!

spank_inferno

The-Rigger wrote: »

Because they vote.

You should have closed the thread after this post!

Nothing else explains it better

</end thread>

cson

average_runner wrote: »

Alot of those old people are the ones that suffered through the 70's and 80's and yet got us our education and gave us good things in life!

And that should make them immune to any suffering now?

I'ts time to see the wood from the trees here; the OAPs were more than happy to vote for Fianna Fail whilst they fired up the pension at a rate of knots each year.

Mits

The old age pension should not be cut. These people built the country and have already paid their dues.

I think people should be entitled to enjoy their retirement. As you come towards their end they should not have to worry about moeny.

Teferi

Because they're the only ones who will actually protest tbh.

average_runner

cson wrote: »

And that should make them immune to any suffering now?

I'ts time to see the wood from the trees here; the OAPs were more than happy to vote for Fianna Fail whilst they fired up the pension at a rate of knots each year.

Yes that should make them immune. They took the hard hits which were alot worst back then than today. They did their job for their country.


They voted FF in, only reason FF got into power is because there is no other party in Ireland that is any good, not that FF are any good, but they were smart they had a leader that could win joe soap over while FG had Enda the muppet and labour, well they are just the union party.

FF didnt want to win the last election, god they tried their best to lose it, they cut back on their campaign big time but FG and labour had no brains to gain on it!

Cant wait for FG and labour get in, then you will know what a real alternative they are and you be moaning here in a few days after the election!!

jimmycrackcorm

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned that usual line "We weren't the ones that caused this crisis"....

irishh_bob

average_runner wrote: »

Yes that should make them immune. They took the hard hits which were alot worst back then than today. They did their job for their country.


They voted FF in, only reason FF got into power is because there is no other party in Ireland that is any good, not that FF are any good, but they were smart they had a leader that could win joe soap over while FG had Enda the muppet and labour, well they are just the union party.

FF didnt want to win the last election, god they tried their best to lose it, they cut back on their campaign big time but FG and labour had no brains to gain on it!

Cant wait for FG and labour get in, then you will know what a real alternative they are and you be moaning here in a few days after the election!!

even you never worked a day in your life , you still get 218 euro per week and all the other perks that go with it , , its getting a bit tiresome this lauding of a people who,s only obvious achievement was to reach three score and ten , i see nothing special about merley getting old and i dont susbscribe to the notion that thier celtic tiger pensions should be maintained regardless of whether it paupers every other generation

Deise Tom

irishh_bob wrote: »

even you never worked a day in your life , you still get 218 euro per week and all the other perks that go with it , ,

When did this last happen?

amacachi

Mits wrote: »

The old age pension should not be cut. These people built the country and have already paid their dues.

I think people should be entitled to enjoy their retirement. As you come towards their end they should not have to worry about moeny.

But I thought that this country was terrible in every way?

Deise Tom

amacachi wrote: »

But I thought that this country was terrible in every way?

And we all have to take our fair share of the cuts.

dvpower

Mits wrote: »

The old age pension should not be cut. These people built the country and have already paid their dues.

I think people should be entitled to enjoy their retirement. As you come towards their end they should not have to worry about moeny.

What about the feckless ones; those who didn't make any orher provision for their retirement?

Bullseye1

It may not get cut but don't expect any increases over the next four years which may be a cut depending on inflation.

dvpower

Bullseye1 wrote: »

It may not get cut but don't expect any increases over the next four years which may be a cut depending on inflation.

Or an increase with deflation.

Bullseye1

Also possible.

caseyann

Thank god for something decent in this country.
The reason is because they will march to protest and the rest of yous will sit on your ass and whine about it.

Rubik.

A cut to the old age pension would be a permanent cut to their standard of living, whereas other social welfare payments are temporary i.e. until someone gets a job, recovers from illness...etc. The vast majority of pensioners would have been paying income tax and making PRSI contributions (don't know when this was introduced) for 50+ years and understandably feel entitled to what they are getting.

Maybe it should be means tested, but the problem with the over 70's medical card fiasco in 2008 was Harney's proposed threshold was far too low.

astrofool

Rubik. wrote: »

A cut to the old age pension would be a permanent cut to their standard of living, whereas other social welfare payments are temporary i.e. until someone gets a job, recovers from illness...etc. The vast majority of pensioners would have been paying income tax and making PRSI contributions (don't know when this was introduced) for 50+ years and understandably feel entitled to what they are getting.

Maybe it should be means tested, but the problem with the over 70's medical card fiasco in 2008 was Harney's proposed threshold was far too low.

a) The cost of living has gone down, the OAP is the only group that has been able to enjoy a better standard of living since the downturn began (those on the dole aren't far behind)

b) The OAP cast the most votes, and helped shape the inept government that caused the problems in this country.

They won't get cut because they're most likely to vote for FF in the next election, that's it.

irishh_bob

Deise Tom wrote: »

When did this last happen?

?????

Deise Tom

dvpower wrote: »

What about the feckless ones; those who didn't make any orher provision for their retirement?

Or the ones of those that come here from other countries when they retire because the pension where they were is smaller that it is here, and they get there pension topped up to Irish levels.

Deise Tom

Rubik. wrote: »

social welfare payments are temporary i.e. until someone gets a job, recovers from illness...etc.

Not everyone on SW will recover from theil Illness. Some people because they have physical disabilities are unlikely to get jobs in this country because of discrimination.

Max Power1

A shocking decision if they dont cut the pension.

Another unsustainable expenditure. IMO an IMF directed series of cuts would be a hell of a lot better than the clowns we have now. A 5-10% cut minimum across all SW payments is needed, with a drastic cut in JA especially.

Misticles

They're right not to touch the old age pension!

After all, most of them have been working all of their life, and working hard at that, they should get something back off this godforsaken government!

Would you like to work all of your life, trying to make ends meet, raising a family, only to be told all of that work is going to go unrecognised by cutting the pension?

I certainly would not like that.

My Dad is on the pension, he worked hard all of his life, he's not wealthy by any means!

They already took the xmas bonus they got off him, which meant he couldn't get some of the grandkids presents last year!

IMO, I would be opposed to them cutting the pension.

johnboy_123

Misticles wrote: »

They're right not to touch the old age pension!

After all, most of them have been working all of their life, and working hard at that, they should get something back off this godforsaken government!

Would you like to work all of your life, trying to make ends meet, raising a family, only to be told all of that work is going to go unrecognised by cutting the pension?

I certainly would not like that.

My Dad is on the pension, he worked hard all of his life, he's not wealthy by any means!

They already took the xmas bonus they got off him, which meant he couldn't get some of the grandkids presents last year!

IMO, I would be opposed to them cutting the pension.

Nobody doubts that people should be entitled to thier pension after a life of working and paying the state.

The problem is that everything has to be cut.

I mean is it fair to cut childrens allowence - knowing that when they start working they will be paying till they get there pension.

Is it fair that people who have been working for 20+ years then are laid off getting the dole which will be cut on them, whilst trying to pay a mortgage on a gaff that is in neg equity?

I think everyone has to be reasonable.

there are bleeding heart stories out their in every demographic, area or sector.

I am ready for my cuts what ever they are but pensioners will have to do the same

Capt'n Midnight

average_runner wrote: »

Alot of those old people are the ones that suffered through the 70's and 80's and yet got us our education and gave us good things in life!

They got to retire earlier than we will
and anyone who got a long term fixed rate mortgage before '73 wasn't really suffering

but the 80's was worse than now, people finishing uni either did postgrad or emigrated, only a minority got jobs here and much of that was through pull, now there is a little emphasis on who you know

having said that if the government and banks had actually told the truth back in 2008 and taken the tough decisions that they are still avoiding we'd be well on the road to recovery by now instead of about €50bn deeper in debt and scaring away potential investors who are still waiting for the other shoe to drop

pocketvenus

There needs to be some adjustment to the OAP and the entitlements they receive - an OAP now get's what €230 plus free travel, tv licesnse, free line rental and phone credits same with the ESB or Gas they get free units etc,

A single person who has lost their job gets €196 a week and that is it - they may get a medical card but depends, so on the €196 they have to pay full gas, electricity, tv license, NTL, a mortgage etc

The country is now able to afford the OAP benefits anymore even if they got rid of the free tv license or reduction in the units are allowed it could help. A certain % of OAP live a fairly comfortable existance have no mortgage, the women can go to the hairdressers even week and spend €20 + on the hair - I mean who else can afford that, etc. I mean certain media outlets, organistaions seem to be pushing the idea of all OAP's living in a stone cottage that is falling down with one candle for light and heat that is not the case with alot of OAP's.

Due to a certain section of SW welfare recipents, PS workers and certain people who have jobs think you are living the high life on the dole - well you ask any genuine person who has lost their job in past 2 years what it is like to try to get by - on €196 a week - even cutting out non essentials it is extremely hard and with your basic's such as light and heat prices skyrocketing it does not help matters. Your bills do not stop if you are made redundant and there is no such things as redundancy prices in shops etc.

Then again no matter what you say there is always a smart answer - maybe a job loss themselves would put it all in perspective for them and I would not wish that on anyone as I know what it is like.

Geuze

Cut public sector pensions first.

pocketvenus

Geuze wrote: »

Cut public sector pensions first.

Oh I agree that it needs to start at top with TD and minister taking huge cuts in their salarys and the massive penison they get etc while still claiming their teacher's etc pension.

However we know that is not going to happen as long as all of them, and that includes the oppostion, are sitting pretty in their invory towers they do not care about ordinary person.

However you cannot say children and OAP's are equally vunberable and then cut just children.

Dorcha

Of course Old Age pensions shouldn’t be cut. It’s not as if it’s a massive amount. It’s clear to see from some of the posts on here that selfishness and greed are still alive and well in Ireland. The idea that those on the lower income should “share” the pain is a load of manure from a bull’s backside. A lot of pensioners have already been feeling the pain long before this. If Cowen and his ilk want to “share” the pain, then let them exist on the average industrial wage until such time as all of this mess is sorted out. I reckon that would focus their minds a little.

There are people on here bleating about “fair”. They have no notion what “fair” means. Reading all this saddens me in a way because I hadn’t realised there were so many selfish people in the country. Small hope for a fair society ever happening in the country when the “me fein” attitude is so prevalent.

Snakeblood

Dorcha wrote: »

Of course Old Age pensions shouldn’t be cut. It’s not as if it’s a massive amount. It’s clear to see from some of the posts on here that selfishness and greed are still alive and well in Ireland. The idea that those on the lower income should “share” the pain is a load of manure from a bull’s backside. A lot of pensioners have already been feeling the pain long before this. If Cowen and his ilk want to “share” the pain, then let them exist on the average industrial wage until such time as all of this mess is sorted out. I reckon that would focus their minds a little.

There are people on here bleating about “fair”. They have no notion what “fair” means. Reading all this saddens me in a way because I hadn’t realised there were so many selfish people in the country. Small hope for a fair society ever happening in the country when the “me fein” attitude is so prevalent.

Er. what pain are the pensioners feeling or have been feeling since the recession? Their pensions haven't been cut, they still ahve their entitlement, and with the deflation in the economy, they're actually in a better position than they had been before anything went wrong.

Edit: It would be lovely if it didn't need to be cut, but things do. lots of stuff will have to be cut. Everything has to be looked at.

rightwingdub

The Oap shoule be cut to €185 per week over the next 3 budgets. Unless of course people on this thread would like those lovely people from the IMF to come in and slash it by 50%.

vintac34

As an OAP i certainly dont want to see it cut,however if that happens i strongly feel that all pensions paid by the state should be means tested, starting with the President and working right down through the public service...
After all we paid and will still be paying for them!!!!!
Many on multiple state pensions and further i never ever voted for the ffailures!!

Snakeblood

vintac34 wrote: »

As an OAP i certainly dont want to see it cut,however if that happens i strongly feel that all pensions paid by the state should be means tested, starting with the President and working right down through the public service...
After all we paid and will still be paying for them!!!!!
Many on multiple state pensions and further i never ever voted for the ffailures!!

Well, exactly.

I don't think we should cut old age pensions and think 'Right, that's fine'. It's not a pleasant thing to do, and definitely people in receipt of multiple pensions should be examined, as should state pensions over say, 50,000 p.a. (picking a figure out of the air).

My grandmother is 86, my father is retiring soon, but they both see the need for cuts because there's no money in the economy. It's a sad truth.

thesimpsons

strongly feel that OAPs need to be cut along with all other payments we can't afford. both my parents and all their friends are pensioners and see they need to be cuts made to their payments too. In the main, they have no mortgages, they have medical cards, fuel, telephone, free travel and whatever else plus costs reducing due to deflation. Yes they saw cuts in in the 70s and 80s and paid high taxes, and then they saw high pensions and extra benefits in the 90s and 00s and unfortunately see the need for cuts once again. Its cyclical - my dad readily tells all who will listen that he has lived through 3 depressions, taxes go up, jobs go, people emigrate and the comes back around in full circle again after a period of time. I'm no where near pension age but I suffered in the 80s too - couldn't afford college in 1981 so had to leave Ireland and go get a job elsewhere, came back after a few years and ended up paying mortgage rates of 15% - we all unfortunately need to suffer.

By the way, the reason the OAPs can protest is that they have the time and free travel to get to Dubln and do so - the rest of us are trying to hold on to what jobs we have and not spend it on inflated fuel or train prices to get to Dublin.

irishh_bob

pocketvenus wrote: »

Oh I agree that it needs to start at top with TD and minister taking huge cuts in their salarys and the massive penison they get etc while still claiming their teacher's etc pension.

However we know that is not going to happen as long as all of them, and that includes the oppostion, are sitting pretty in their invory towers they do not care about ordinary person.

However you cannot say children and OAP's are equally vunberable and then cut just children.

+1 , children are many times more vulnerable than OAP,s

irishh_bob

Dorcha wrote: »

Of course Old Age pensions shouldn’t be cut. It’s not as if it’s a massive amount. It’s clear to see from some of the posts on here that selfishness and greed are still alive and well in Ireland. The idea that those on the lower income should “share” the pain is a load of manure from a bull’s backside. A lot of pensioners have already been feeling the pain long before this. If Cowen and his ilk want to “share” the pain, then let them exist on the average industrial wage until such time as all of this mess is sorted out. I reckon that would focus their minds a little.

There are people on here bleating about “fair”. They have no notion what “fair” means. Reading all this saddens me in a way because I hadn’t realised there were so many selfish people in the country. Small hope for a fair society ever happening in the country when the “me fein” attitude is so prevalent.

no better group to exhibit selfishness and greed than pensioners , pensioners in ireland recieve 232 ( contributory ) and 218 ( non contributory ) per week plus free tv lincence , medical card , more or less free electrcity , free phone , fuel allowance , living alone allowance in the case of a widow , free travel , when you add all up , its worth at least 300 euro per week and i dont know many pensioners with 300 k mortgages or school books to buy and theese are only the pensioners who are not recieving public sector pensions or who never invested in private pension plans , a retired garda inspector or a school principal with a pension of 699 euro per week or a retired husband and wife couple of teachers can earn up to 2 quid short of 1400 euro per week and still pop down to thier local surger and have thier blood pressure checked for free , contrast this with a young couple in thier thirties with a few kids who are earning too much to qualify for a medical card while at the same time being mortgaged up to thier necks , i know who i consider more vulnerable

time a lot of people stopped being so fcuking sentimental and saw the wood for the trees , the media immage we see of pensioners is in most cases nothing but a carracture

Rubik.

irishh_bob wrote: »

no better group to exhibit selfishness and greed than pensioners , pensioners in ireland recieve 232 ( contributory ) and 218 ( non contributory ) per week plus free tv lincence , medical card , more or less free electrcity , free phone , fuel allowance , living alone allowance in the case of a widow , free travel , when you add all up , its worth at least 300 euro per week and i dont know many pensioners with 300 k mortgages or school books to buy and theese are only the pensioners who are not recieving public sector pensions or who never invested in private pension plans , a retired garda inspector or a school principal with a pension of 699 euro per week or a retired husband and wife couple of teachers can earn up to 2 quid short of 1400 euro per week and still pop down to thier local surger and have thier blood pressure checked for free , contrast this with a young couple in thier thirties with a few kids who are earning too much to qualify for a medical card while at the same time being mortgaged up to thier necks , i know who i consider more vulnerable

time a lot of people stopped being so fcuking sentimental and saw the wood for the trees , the media immage we see of pensioners is in most cases nothing but a carracture

Could you tone down the hyperpole just a bit, ffs.

Jesus Wept

Why is the difference between contributory and non contributory only 14e?
How much was contributed?

goose2005

Mits wrote: »

The old age pension should not be cut. These people built the country and have already paid their dues.

I think people should be entitled to enjoy their retirement. As you come towards their end they should not have to worry about moeny.

These people also f'd up the country. They voted for clientelist politics for decades, they knelt before churchmen for decades, meaning that virtually every progressive change came to Ireland last.

pocketvenus

irishh_bob wrote: »

+1 , children are many times more vulnerable than OAP,s

Exactly you cannot be saying 2 sections of society need same level of protecting and then only following through on one.

I agree there needs to be changes to the child benefit but as it seems a proper overhaul is not going to happen - then if an across board cut is being made then the other section in this case OAP's need to take a cut also, be it in pension itself or the benefits.